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Author Topic: TV Series'  (Read 4275 times)

ldoodle

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TV Series'
« on: December 24, 2012, 01:15:52 pm »

Hiya,

I want this layout:

Theater View > TV > <Show Name> > Series # > Disc #

So Theater View > TV > Homeland > Series 1 > Disc 1/Disc 2/Disc 3/Disc 4

I can get Theater View > TV > Homeland > Series 1 [Disc 1], so need the added level. My tags are Name = Homeland, Series = Series 1 [Disc 1]. Is there a proper tag for Disc #, so I'd have Name = Homeland, Series = Series 1 and Disc # = 1/2/3/4 etc.

Should get what I need then?

Thanks
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ldoodle

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Re: TV Series'
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2012, 04:19:56 pm »

OK found and used Disc #, and added it to Theater View but it's not working.

TV
|-- Name
|.......|-- Name
|.......|-- Season
|.......|-- Disc #
|-- Genre
|-- Series
|-- Actor

But this shows in Theater View as TV > Homeland > Homeland > 1/2/3/4, but as above I would like TV > Homeland > Series # > Disc #
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MrHaugen

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Re: TV Series'
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2012, 11:34:18 am »

Your setup shuld work. But remember that Disck Number or Season will NOT be selectable if there is just one season or disk. It will just skip that item and enter the next level directly. How often is it that you have several disks pr season anyway? Would it not be better to add the Disk number as a tag to the Info Pane perhaps?
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ldoodle

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Re: TV Series'
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2012, 04:05:52 pm »

Would it not be better to add the Disk number as a tag to the Info Pane perhaps?

Can you expand on that - you mean as a custom tag?
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ldoodle

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Re: TV Series'
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2012, 07:59:25 am »

Is it possible for the Series field to be skipped. What I have done for Films, TV Series, Live Shows etc. is to populate the Series value with say Aliens, then the Name filed for the 4 films I have are Alien, Aliens, Alien3 and Alien: Resurrection, all the Batman films have a Series of Batman and a Name of The Dark Knight, The Dark Knight Rises etc. Likewise all the Only Fools and Horses discs are Series = Only Fools and Horses, Name = Series 1, Series 2, Series 3 [Disc 1], Series 3 [Disc 2] etc.

The Theater View setup is then based on the Series value so it groups 'collections' together, then it lists all films in that collection. However, for individual films the Series value is empty, so it groups them all as Unassigned, but if I make the Series value the name of the film, say Man on Fire, it shows it twice, once for the Series and once for the Name. It does the same for TV Series where there's only one disc, say Only Fools and Horses Series 1.

Is there any way round this - I don't want different views for films series etc. - want everything listed along side each other.

Make sense?
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JustinChase

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Re: TV Series'
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2012, 11:28:34 am »

Is it possible for the Series field to be skipped. What I have done for Films, TV Series, Live Shows etc. is to populate the Series value with say Aliens, then the Name filed for the 4 films I have are Alien, Aliens, Alien3 and Alien: Resurrection, all the Batman films have a Series of Batman and a Name of The Dark Knight, The Dark Knight Rises etc. Likewise all the Only Fools and Horses discs are Series = Only Fools and Horses, Name = Series 1, Series 2, Series 3 [Disc 1], Series 3 [Disc 2] etc.

The Theater View setup is then based on the Series value so it groups 'collections' together, then it lists all films in that collection. However, for individual films the Series value is empty, so it groups them all as Unassigned, but if I make the Series value the name of the film, say Man on Fire, it shows it twice, once for the Series and once for the Name. It does the same for TV Series where there's only one disc, say Only Fools and Horses Series 1.

Is there any way round this - I don't want different views for films series etc. - want everything listed along side each other.

Make sense?

Unfortunately, no, there is no way around this currently.  I do the exact same thing, and have made the exact same request a few times and have not made a convincing enough argument to get this behavior changed.  I'm still hopeful that others will ask for this, and eventually we can pursuade Matt et all to skip the 'one item' layer that this setup creates.

FYI, I populate a Series for all movies, even if it's the only movie in that series, so that I get them all displayed nicely in one view, which it sounds like you've begun to do also, to avoid the "Unassigned" Series problem.
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BartMan01

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Re: TV Series'
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2012, 11:36:41 am »

Unfortunately, no, there is no way around this currently.  I do the exact same thing, and have made the exact same request a few times and have not made a convincing enough argument to get this behavior changed.  I'm still hopeful that others will ask for this, and eventually we can pursuade Matt et all to skip the 'one item' layer that this setup creates.

FYI, I populate a Series for all movies, even if it's the only movie in that series, so that I get them all displayed nicely in one view, which it sounds like you've begun to do also, to avoid the "Unassigned" Series problem.

I would LOVE to have that 'movie series' issue sorted.  Right now I have to use two separate views, one for all movies by name and another with just series movies by series and then order in series.
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ldoodle

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Re: TV Series'
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2012, 01:02:17 pm »

Thanks Justin. At least I'm not alone and someone else can help explain the 'problem'. I think this should be the default behaviour across all views, to prevent the 'one item' layer (at least I have something to call it now as well :) ), not just for Films within Theater View (so TV Series etc.).

Anyone from development able to comment?
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Matt

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Re: TV Series'
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2012, 01:15:32 pm »

The Theater View setup is then based on the Series value so it groups 'collections' together, then it lists all films in that collection. However, for individual films the Series value is empty, so it groups them all as Unassigned, but if I make the Series value the name of the film, say Man on Fire, it shows it twice, once for the Series and once for the Name. It does the same for TV Series where there's only one disc, say Only Fools and Horses Series 1.

Wouldn't it work to group by this expression:
If(IsEmpty([Series]), [Name], [Series])

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InflatableMouse

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Re: TV Series'
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2012, 04:46:44 pm »

... shuld ... Disck ... pr...

Haha I just noticed this ... you wrote that on 25th december ... you were drunk. Admit it.  ;D
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JustinChase

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Re: TV Series'
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2012, 05:26:09 pm »

Wouldn't it work to group by this expression:
If(IsEmpty([Series]), [Name], [Series])

It helps, in that i don't have to assign 'individual' movies with a series, thanks.

However, the issue still remains that in order for there to be a 'layer' for multiple movie series to be displayed, the individual movie series shows the one movie twice.

Maybe pictures will help better explain what's happening.

The first shot shows the options dialog, where I have an item under Movie called Series.  I changed it to use your expression, and removed the Series info from "Gone with the Wind".

The next shot shows what I see in Theater View when I use this view.  As you can see, Gone with the Wind shows up correctly without a series (yay!).

But when I select it, i get shot #3, which only shows this one movie, then I have to select it again to get to shot #4, where it still only shows this one movie, but I can actually tell it to play the movie from here.  We are suggesting that since shot #3 only shows one option/movie, that it just be skipped, since there is no choice to be made here, and go directly to shot #4.

The reason this screen in shot #3 is needed can be seen in shot #5, where a Series (Spiderman) contains more than one movie.  Without having a "Series" view, there is no way (that I know of) to group these movies together, yet still have them shown along with Movies that don't have any "Series" associated with them.
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Hendrik

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Re: TV Series'
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2012, 05:35:02 pm »

I agree, it would be great to be able to have optional grouping in a view, without forcing a one-element grouping on every item. I have also often wondered how to organize my movies, and i have some i would love to get grouped, like all the Star Trek Movies, or all James Bond movies, and long movie series like that - without adding an extra layer for all other movies.
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MrC

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Re: TV Series'
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2012, 07:24:06 pm »

When you have a Series, then Name will be the specific name of the movie?  So you want:

  Movie 1
  Movie 2
  Series 1
      Movie 1.1
      Movie 1.2
  Series 2
      Movie 2.1
      Movie 2.2

And each Movie n.m are named by the Name field?
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JustinChase

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Re: TV Series'
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2012, 07:52:24 pm »

For me, the last screenshot shows how I handle mine.  Spider-Man is the series, each movie is named as you see it in the screen shot.
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MrC

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Re: TV Series'
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2012, 08:37:16 pm »

I can't help on the extra single-item issue; it does seem excessive.

Can't the Series / Name switching be done with a single expression category under the Name item?

   ListBuild(1, \, [Series], [Name])&datatype=[list]
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rick.ca

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Re: TV Series'
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2013, 04:45:39 am »

I agree, it would be great to be able to have optional grouping in a view, without forcing a one-element grouping on every item. I have also often wondered how to organize my movies, and i have some i would love to get grouped, like all the Star Trek Movies, or all James Bond movies, and long movie series like that - without adding an extra layer for all other movies.

This is a 'correct' statement of the problem, in that it at least acknowledges something not currently part of the current design is needed to achieve the desired result. There is nothing 'wrong' with the current design, other than it cannot do what it was not designed to do. It uses a specified hierarchy of Categories to determine what is included in a final file list. The file list shows a small info panel for the currently selected item, and an additional screen will display a large info panel with additional information. That may not work as one may wish it to work (e.g., for a movie view that includes single movies and movie series), but it certainly works perfectly in general—as it was designed.

It's easy enough to produce any sort of Category that may be needed (e.g., [Series] if one exists, otherwise [Name]), but the category list will not include any information about an individual movie without selecting it, and then will display it as a file list of one. It seems what's sought is a file list that will include a mix of individual files and, where files are members of a group (e.g., [Series]), a group item. To avoid confusion—and to acknowledge this is something not included in the current architecture of Theatre View—let's call that, say...Grouping.

A Grouping would somehow be defined and included in Rules for file display. The file list would then include an item for each value of that group. Such a group node might be a link to a further file list, or would simply expand to show it's contents within the existing list. The node itself might include a small panel that's an appropriate aggregation of values for it's contents (i.e., [Year] range, [Rating] average, [Genre] and [Director] value or 'Various'). Such a mechanism would work equally well for movie series and anything else users may prefer to be displayed as a Group in a file list rather than as a Category.

It might be more fruitful to campaign for something like Grouping to be included in the next major update to Theatre View, rather than to seek workarounds that don't exist or options that aren't feasible or practical.

Another long-awaited feature are links that work in Theatre View. Imagine including a [Series] link in the small panel that displays a file list of the series. (Perhaps links could be cycled with a <Right> and executed with <Enter>.) As well as being very useful in general, some may prefer to use links than grouping to display movie series (or any other files related to the selected item).
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JustinChase

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Re: TV Series'
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2013, 11:40:03 am »

That just doesn't sound as simple to use as an option for "Skip navigation levels with only one item Y/N"

It seems that this will have the same affect, but won't require a programming degree.
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Hendrik

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Re: TV Series'
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2013, 12:16:40 pm »

The thing is, it already skips "empty" navigation layers, however, it doesn't do this if its the last level before the file.

If you have normal TV Shows organized by Series -> Season -> Episode, and there is only one Season for some show, it'll jump straight to the file listing. But if you had a Season with just one Episode, it would still open the Season view and show a list with that one episode, because thats the last layer.
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rick.ca

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Re: TV Series'
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2013, 09:38:02 pm »

Quote
But if you had a Season with just one Episode, it would still open the Season view and show a list with that one episode, because that's the last layer.

Exactly. That's why it's problematic to provide an option to 'skip' the file list. It's not just a 'navigation layer', it's the destination of the navigation. One step further takes you to the large info panel, if something has been configured to be displayed there. If you include all the information you want to see in the large panel, and include some subset of that in the small panel, then you might feel the file list is something that would be better to skip if there is only one item. But that's generally not the case, or how the system was designed. The file list is the file list. It's purpose is to display the files that pass the filters selected—whether there's one or a thousand. The large information panel is supplemental to the small. It can include information in addition to that displayed in the small panel, just additional information, or nothing at all. If there were an option to skip the file list, it would have to be one that applies to a specific view only. Even then, such an option would appeal only to those using the large panel as their primary source of information, rather than something to display information in addition to that displayed in the small panel.

The most useful characteristics of the Theatre View navigation system are it's simplicity and consistency. Personally, I don't see much value in fudging one view to work differently than the rest, even if it does eliminate one button press. I've found it more productive to embrace the design, and to configure my views accordingly. Generally, I want the file list to show me the result of the categories I've selected. The small panel is configured to show information helpful in distinguishing between the items in the list. It's likely to help me to choose one item for which I'll view more information (the large panel) and/or play. I generally view the large panel only when I intend to watch a video. In the case of music, I'll often use it only to display artist bio, album reviews and lyrics while the music is playing. I would therefore find it jarring to skip the file list and go directly to the large panel—before I've even decided whether I'm interested in that information or playing the item. Furthermore, I generally use the display style which shows a row of thumbnails representing the content of each category. So I know before I select the final item whether the list will include one, a few or many items. Based on that, I may just want a quick glance at the small panel, or may press twice to go directly to the large panel. The requested option would therefore just remove a choice that I would prefer to make depending on the circumstances.

Yes, the suggestion is for an option to change the standard behaviour. But my particular preferences illustrate the fact different users will have different preferences in exactly the same circumstances. And most users are likely to be faced with a number of different circumstances, only one of which is served by the option. Now considering most users already find things too complex and seem reluctant to configure Theatre View according to their needs, it seems doubtful the benefit of such an option would outweigh the cost of the added complexity and confusion that would result. We're certainly less likely to ever see the more sensible grouping feature if such an option is added.
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JustinChase

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Re: TV Series'
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2013, 11:15:05 pm »

You're making it WAAAYYYY too complex.

As it is now, sometimes a selection takes you to a view which contains one item.  The ONLY option one can do from here is select this one item.  It just makes no sense to have this 'one item' view.  There is nothing to do from here but continue, why make a person make a selection when there is no choice?

Skipping over this screen is perfectly logical, and NO ONE would be confused if this was the default behavior, and if if were an option, it would not confuse anyone.

The 'solution' I've seen has taken many paragraphs to explain, and still doesn't make much sense.  Certainly skipping a non-option to take you to the only possible result is easier, isn't it?

As nevcairiel stated earlier, MC already does this in some circumstances, and I've never seen anyone say they didn't understand it, or request the behavior be changed.  Extending the already accepted behavior to another area that would benefit from it seems to make perfect sense.

If 'grouping' offers more benefits, great, maybe that can be added at some point, but since it takes many paragraphs to explain, I imagine it's not a simple change.  But, {If selection => single item, then skip item, otherwise show multiple items} couldn't be much simpler, could it?
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MrHaugen

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Re: TV Series'
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2013, 01:56:09 am »

I agree with Justin. Discussing this is pretty much a waste, unless we get more options to show meta data for those single groups that are skipped. Who really want to see a single item, that gives you no other info or choice but to enter it to get more info?

When you do things like making series for movies to create box sets, then I agree that there would be benefits of streamlining the experience. But to do it this way is just wrong. We need an AUTOMATIC way to create box set info. It's already on The Movie Database, and adding this "Part of" library field together with some box set logic would solve this problem once and for all.
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Matt

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Re: TV Series'
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2013, 02:56:42 pm »

In a coming build:
Changed: When going into a Theater View library item that only contains a single file, the file will be 'zoomed' automatically.


(p.s. this thread is locked due to unwelcome fighting that has since been edited away)
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