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Author Topic: Trying to come up with a sensible setup  (Read 6121 times)

Thor

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Trying to come up with a sensible setup
« on: February 10, 2013, 06:11:14 am »

Hello,

My name is Thor and this is my first post here.

At present I do not own a JRiver MC, but am seriously thinking about purchasing it.

I will describe a setup that I think might work for me, but I would like some expert feedback to see if it makes sense.  I also have some questions as to possible functionality.

My goal is to have a NAS DLNA server streaming FLAC files (both CD quality and HD quality) to a DMR.  I would like to use a DMC to push the audio files to the DMR.

I have done a bunch of research on all components and software to my system and have ruled out many.

For the NAS, I have decided to use a unit from Synology.  I haven't yet picked the particular model but don't think this will matter.
There will actually be multiple DMRs - a Yamaha Aventage receiver for sure and then possibly an Oppo BDP-103 or perhaps a Mede8er unit.
Honestly, I have searched for a good DMC app for the Android Nexus 7 tablet but I really didn't find anything that looks like a likely candidate.  They all don't seem very capable.  That is how I came about looking for a PC DMC instead and came across JRiver.
In general, it sounds like all this should work, but there are some potential issues as to how I would like to use the system.

From reading various posts on your forum, I have come to understand that it would be best for JRiver to be the DMS as well as the DMC instead of using the Synology DLNA Media Server.  However, my original plan was to be able to stream data from the NAS to the DMR without needing to have a PC powered at all times to do this.  That is why I was originally looking for an Android app.  The android app would have served the purpose of being a UI to the DLNA server.  I have no issue having a nice display sitting around on a stand to be active most times.  That is different and much more attractive in a living room or bedroom than needing to have a PC or open laptop with a keyboard sitting in the room.  I know that JRiver has the Gizmo Android app, but I assume the PC running JRiver still needs to be powered-up for Gizmo to be able to operate with the Synology NAS DLNS server to play music.  Is that correct?

If a PC has to be ON at all times to operate the music streaming using JRiver as the DMC, I would prefer this PC to be a tablet and not a laptop or desktop for the aesthetics mentioned above.  The only tablets that run Windows though require Windows 8 and I have not found anything on your forum that confirms or denies that JRiver works on Windows 8 Pro.  Will it?

Even if JRiver works on a tablet with Win8Pro, that is not necessarily the best machine on which to spend a lot of time creating playlists and configuring JRiver.  That would probably be more convenient on a full-blown desktop or laptop.  However, since JRiver is not NAS-based but rather PC-based, I don't see how I could do that unless I load JRiver on both the tablet and desktop/laptop.  But if I do that, these two instances won't be synced and as such one would not know about changes I made to the other.  At least that is what happens on other programs where you have two PCs running the same program.  Maybe there is something in JRiver that can make this work?

This is where it would have been useful to have a JRiver media server actually running on the NAS, but I know this is not possible since the NAS runs Linux and not Windows.  At one point I was considering Audio Station to be my server (not DLNS, I know) and use the DS-Audio app for Android for regular playback control while using a PC for playlist setup, etc.  But it was never clear to me if Audio Station could actually stream FLAC files and even more importantly to me, Audio Station does not seem to actually allow true shuffling/random playback of playlists.  This is a deal breaker for me.  This brings me to a somewhat off-topic question...but I will address that at the end of this post.

Given that I would prefer to have a tablet be the PC that needs to run to allow the music streaming to occur, this brings me right back to the fact that it could not contain JRiver as the media server as the tablet would not have nearly enough memory.  I guess it would be possible to use JRiver as the media server but actually store the audio files on the NAS without using the NAS DLNS media server, but I don't want to do that since I may at time choose to let one of my usual DMRs be a DMP and actually pull music from the NAS instead of having it pushed to it by JRiver.

I hope this all makes some sense and is clear enough to understand.  I would appreciate answers to the few questions strewn throughout this rather lengthy description but I would also like to hear comments, positive and/or negative feedback to my setup concept in general.  Sorry for making this post so long, but I wanted my description to be thorough so that answers can be given that actually address my true concerns.  And sorry again, but I will make this post just a bit longer with a couple more topics below that fit to this setup.


As to the shuffling topic from above...how does the shuffle / random function truly work in JRiver.  As this is a critical item for me, I need to understand this before spending my money.  I like to create playlists along something similar to Genre, but creating my own Genres if you will.  I often don't agree with the Genres assigned by the public and usually also have more of them.  I then like to pick on of these playlists and play them shuffled.  The playlist may have less than a hundred songs in it but could also be as large as well over 1000 songs.  When I play a particular list shuffled on Monday for 1 hour and then do the same thing on Wednesday, I don't want to hear the exact same songs again.  I need the shuffling to be truly random every time I select a playlist and then choose to play it shuffled.  I really like this feature in my ipod (which I use in my car), but it seems that many apps and programs, just can't do this truly random.  Either they do it random once, but if you don't add or remove a song, the next time has the exact same shuffled order, or the shuffling is weak and follows a pretty obvious pattern.  So my question here is - is the shuffling truly random in JRiver?

Another question as to shuffling.  I read a post here that discusses shuffling playlists.  It seems that iTunes shows the playlist in original order but jumps around the playlist.  I read here that JRiver actually shuffles the playlist itself around and then sequentially moves through that shuffled list.  But it seems that this shuffled version of the playlists is actually what is shown in "playing now".  Does that mean, the original playlist is still intact in the original order if I want to play it non-shuffled a day later (or want to reshuffle it again with hopefully a different random order), or has the actual original playlist been modified and only exists in its shuffled format now?


If I have one NAS DLNS server with one set of music files, can two different DMPs play music from this server at the same time?  This is relevant as there may be multiple DMPs throughout the house (different rooms) and the listeners may want to listen to different playlists?  If this is possible, would it still be so if the devices were DMRs instead of DMPs and JRiver was the DMC for both DMRs?  Or would I need to instances of JRiver in that case or perhaps JRiver and another DMC?

Thanks in advance for helping me out.
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csimon

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Re: Trying to come up with a sensible setup
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2013, 04:42:24 pm »

Let me say first of all that you are not alone and there are many people trying to do the same things as yourself. Me included!

I too have a Synology NAS and wanted to be able to use that to stream music to a DMR.  A lowe power machine that can beleft on all the time.  The deal breaker for me was that the Synology media server, in common with most other servers, was not flexible enough for my cataloguing purposes. I don't want anything overly complex, but I need something a bit more than album, artist and genre.

JRiver is infinitely flexible and, having played around with Meedio in the past, have now settled on J River as my DMS.  but it is indeed a shame that it needs a PC running all the time.  Many people have expressed a desire to have a version of the JRiver server that is able to be installed on NAS devices, but it they have decided to implement it on MacOS first.  A Lunix version may come in the future but I think it is a long way off.

DLNA is also a bit problematic in that there is no way to sync devices,  So even though you can have many DMRs on the network (and stream media to them independently at the same time from the same server, to answer one of your questions) it is practically impossible to get them to play in sync.  And a lot of devices tend to be buggy or otherwise have idiosyncrasies in the DLNA protocol and a server like JRiver, in common with all other servers, may encounter problems controlling this device or that device, together with the fact that they support different sets of media formats.

I've currently got a PC with JRiver on it, files on a NAS, and playing to a WDTV Live media streamer. It works fine. But sometimes I would like music in another rom, so I'm currently experimenting with a Marmitek Audio Anywhere wireless audio sender and putting additional receivers in additional rooms coupled with poowered speakers. Again, this seems to work fine.

I started off using a DLNA controller app on an iPad (PlugPPlayer) but became disillusioned with lack of progress on the UI.  I'm currently using the third party JRiver app called JRemote which is absolutely fantastic. I haven't got an Android tablet so I haven't tried Gizmo, but it will be the same sort of thing, although I believe JRemote is now more advanced than Gizmo. Note that these aren't DLNA controllers, they are remote controls for JRiver. So the tablet isn't controlling the renderer, you are simply sending commands to the main JRiver program on the PC and it's that which serves media to and controls the renderer.

I'm also starting top think about buying a small, silent PC (Fit PC, Intense PC etc) to put at the TV and use that as the main JRiver server, rather than using my main PC as the server. The installation of JRiver on the main PC would then just be used for playback when I'm at that machine and for maintaining the library and doing ripping etc.

I'm sure there are many people using JRiver happily with Windows 8. In fact, I've recently made a post here (somewhere!) suggesting that now Windows 8 is out, it is touch-happy, and there will be a plethora of tablets coming out, or even medium-sized (e.g. 20") all-in-one PCs that you could use as a coffee-table controller), it paves the way for installing JRiver itself on a Windows 8 tablet/PC and using its Theater View interface, i.e. completely doing away with additional party remote-control apps.  The coffee-table PC wouldn't even be the server/player - it would just be a remote control for the main JRiver server, so it wouldn't need to be connected to the TV or hi-fi. You'd just have a power cable to it. But Theater View was primarily designed as a TV UI, for use with a remote control and/or mouse, and it needs a bit of work to make it touch-friendly.

But it doesn't get away from the fact that your tablet will then be a full Windows PC and I start thinking about where I started. The ideal of having a small low-power machine that could serve media to my TV and hi-fi from a handheld touch device at the couch.

Just to answer more of your questions, JRiver is a complete client/server application and if you install it on more than on PC, you can control one PC from another, you can connect to another's library, and you can sync libraries from one PC to another if you want to keep libraries local to each PC.

I hope this gives you some ideas!
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csimon

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Re: Trying to come up with a sensible setup
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2013, 04:53:56 pm »

PS Let's not forget JRiver's audio processing, it's widely recognised as being of audiophile quality with regards to playing music, almost certainly playing music better than any DMR without getting into silly money.  It has sophisticated DSP facilities.  You can either use direct output from your PC's sound card but also many people send digital output to an external DAC.  While JRiver is able to process content sent to media renderers, at the moment it only extends to format conversion and applying volume levelling, but there have been requests to apply the internal DSP settings to DLNA output too.
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csimon

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Re: Trying to come up with a sensible setup
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2013, 04:57:32 pm »

PPS. With regard to the Synology NAS, I currently have a DS209 to store my media files and it also doubles up as my PC backup server. But I'm (patiently) waiting for Synology to release a new version of their DS411slim, which is a very small unit specifically for 2.5" disks. I want to go towards SSDs for serving media - this at least is achieving part of my goal of a small, silent, low power server! Synology have revamped their entire product line for 2012 and 2013 but the "slim" model has been left to last. I'm hoping they are not going to discontinue this line!
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Thor

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Re: Trying to come up with a sensible setup
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2013, 10:05:58 pm »

CSimon, thanks a lot for the detailed response.

The cataloguing on the NAS media server does not bother me because I usually play my music via either song, artist, album or playlist selection.  So perhaps using the NAS as the media server won’t impact me negatively over using JRiver as the media server.  There is also a 3rd party media server that can be loaded onto the NAS that is a bit more flexible than Synology’s Media Server.  It’s called Minim but I don’t know much about it yet.

Syncing is also not really an issue for me because I already have a way to do this.  I will use two or three systems to stream music to.  One is my main stereo system.  Another is a multi-zone system which already can sync all of its zones as long as all zones play off the same input (one such input would be a DMR that is not part of my stereo system, another input would be one of my main stereo receiver’s zone outputs).  The third is a totally separate part of the house that I would never need to sync.  I could sync the main stereo to the multi-zone system simply by choosing to play the input to the multi-zone that comes from my main stereo receiver and put the receiver in party mode.  That is why I was asking if I can stream different playlists from the same NAS media server to different DMRs at the same time.  In effect this means that the NAS media server would be asked for different songs by either the same source (JRiver) or different sources (JRiver and receiver as DMP for example) simultaneously.  From what you wrote it sounds like this should work.  Can you confirm that I understood this correctly?  It also seems that you stated that JRiver could actually stream two different playlists from the NAS media server to two different DMRs.  Could you also confirm that I understood that correctly?  If that indeed works, how do you do that in JRiver?

I am curious about your use of JRemote.  Is this app also available for Android or is it that JRemote is for iPad and Gizmo is the somewhat equivalent on Android?  Since you have to have your PC powered on anyway, why do you bother using the iPad at the same time?  Is it because the PC is not in the location where you are listening to the music?

What is theater view?  You bring up an interesting point with regards to SW not being created for touch applications.  I wonder how I could use JRiver on a Win8Pro tablet without a mouse or keyboard.  Perhaps using a stylus.  Could be an interesting exercise.

You state that you can sync libraries if you want to keep libraries local to each PC.  How would you use JRiver without a local library?  Or if you use a centralized library, would you just need to make sure that the PC housing the central library is powered-on if you wish to use JRiver on another PC?  I assume the library can’t reside on the NAS.

If you want to use JRiver on multiple PCs, do you need to purchase multiple instances or can you install it on as many PCs as you wish?

When you state that JRiver’s audio processing is great, how exactly does this work?  FLAC files are usually passed through digitally, untouched until they are processed by a DAC.  Are you stating that JRiver would be the DAC?  If not, I don’t see how a PC would have good enough DACs to do this job.  I don’t think a PC soundcard would outperform my Yamaha’s Burr-Browns.  Please elaborate.

Could you provide some info with regards to my playlist shuffle/random inquires at the end of my first post?

Thanks again for all the great details.
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csimon

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Re: Trying to come up with a sensible setup
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2013, 04:10:15 am »

Yes, a server can respond to multiple requests and stream at the same time, whether it's multiple requests from one player, or simultaneous requests from multiple players, or multiple requests from multiple players!  Of course, the hardware needs to be powerful enough.  I remember this appears as a FAQ I think on Synology's site - I think the conclusion was that an average Synology NAS (which is not exactly a powerful machine in terms of PCs) is able to handle four simultaneous DLNA streams.

You are probably best having a look through the JRiver home page, wiki and downloading the software to have a play around with it - a lot of the zoning issues would become obvious I think once you can see it on the screen.

There are the concepts of Playing From and Playing To.  Playing From is the library of media files and Playing To is what's playing them.  You can only connect to (play from) one library at a time, but this library can be a local library (you can set up multiple local libraries and switch between them), a remote library on another JRiver server, or a library from a DLNA server.  For sharing libraries between JRiver installations you can either do a remote connect (one installation becomes a library server and the other is a library client) or you can export a master libary and import it as a local library into another installation.

Playing To are Zones. Each Zone has its own playlist.  In the Playing Now screen, you can select one zone at a time to control, or you can choose an Overview screen where all zones are shown at the same time in individual colums and their current playlists are listed, together with an indication of what item is playing now in each zone.

Note that the term Playlist is ambiguous. In this case, and how I assume you understand it, it is an on-the-fly list of items that you have queued up for playing, like a jukebox.  So a Playlist is unique to a Zone and is built up during the course of a session. JRiver will create a playlist for each zone that you are controlling. These playlists are not part of the library and they only exist "logically" like a session variable. However, in JRiver there are also Saved Playlists, which appear in your library as though they were just another album. You create these either by dragging and dropping files to create a static list, or they can be dynamic where you construct a query/filter, and JRiver will dynamically build a list of files that fulfil that criteria.  These Saved Playlists are part of the library therefore they can be shared amongst installations as above and can be selected for playing to any zone independently or at the same time.

For example, suppose you have two zones (DMRs) and one installation of JRiver.  Your question was "It also seems that you stated that JRiver could actually stream two different playlists from the NAS media server to two different DMRs... If that indeed works, how do you do that in JRiver?".  Do you mean NAS media server or NAS file server?  NAS media server implies that it's a DLNA server, therefore you would do a remote connect from JRiver to the NAS DLNA library.  If you're just using it as a file server, then it's JRiver's local library that you would use.  The NAS just looks like a normal disk drive to JRiver. If you regard a Playlist as being the list of items that you build up on-the-fly, then you will connect to one zone first, build up your playlist for that and start it playing, then switch to the other zone and compile that playlist. Both zones are independent and have their own playlists.  If, however, you mean Saved Playlists then these are part of the library. So again, you connect to one zone first, select a playlist from the library and start playing it. Then switch to the other zone, select another playlist from that library and start playing that.

JRemote is iOS only. It came about because Gizmo is Android and there was no JRiver-produced equivalent for iOS.  It has a thread of its own in the Third Party forum.  Yes, you are correct, my PC is upstairs in the spare room and I am downstairs on the couch with my TV and hi-fi! That's why I use JRemote to control JRiver.

Theater View is JRiver's "10 foot interface", for use on a TV with a remote control, like Windows Media Center. Standard View is the typical PC-interface, like Windows Media Player etc.  Dedicated apps, like Gizmo & JRemote etc are obviously on touch devices and work perfectly, but Theater View is designed for an IR remote control with cursor keys and OK buttons and dragging scroll bars.  It works somewhat with a touch monitor, I tried it last weekend, but a bit frustrating when compared to a native tablet app. And the standard skins are nowhere near as attractive as JRemote, although it has more eye-candy such as backdrops, cover flow, menu animations etc.

The JRiver licensing model is unusual. Once you have bought JRiver, it is a one-off payment and you get free updates to the software for up to a year, there are new builds coming out at least once a week. You can see release notes at the sticky at the top of the main software forum http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=27.0. You can install it on as many PCs as is "reasonable".  In other words, for an average home use with, say, two or three PCs around the house, you don't need to buy more licences. About once a year, you have to renew the licence (at a reduced fee from a new licence) if you want to continue receiving updates.

With regard to the audio processing, I don't think I can possibly explain it, it mostly goes over my head!  If you have a decent DAC, of course this is going to walk all over an average PC sound card, however you could also use JRiver as a sort of "preamp".  There are many threads in these forums about audio processing and the DSP facilities, but again you might as well just download the software and have a look.  There have been links to various audiophile magazines and articles which have continually touted JRiver as the software to go for if you're going to do PC-based music.  There is a dedicated board here for discussion about audio output and processing, DACs etc.

I don't use Shuffle very much so I can't really explain how it works and how random it really is.  JRemote has Shuffle too, but I don't know if it is simply exposing JRiver's internal shuffle or whether it uses its own algorithm.
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csimon

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Re: Trying to come up with a sensible setup
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2013, 06:14:28 am »

By the way, a question for you!  What is your multi-zone system that is able to sync connected devices?
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Rubberduck0

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Re: Trying to come up with a sensible setup
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2013, 09:13:28 am »

My experiences in short:

DMS: Synology is a very good choice, very reliable and you will not have any problems for using it as your DMS. Except - as already pointed out - it is far, far away from JRiver regarding the possibilities to customize your music catalogue. But if you really use artist, album, genre then go ahead with Synology. It even offers a very simple smartlist function, but again, nothing compared to JRiver.

A note on other MCs: I also tried to replace JRiver with other MC programs, like MediaMonkey, Plex, foobar2000, etc. But as it turned out, JRiver is not easy to replace, once you are used to this flexibility JRiver offers you. So, if you decide to purchase a MC, then JRiver is definitely not the worst choice (although it gets expensive over time and some other issues, but this does not belong here).

DMC: I only have experience with iOS and I've tried several DLNA apps. The result was constant frustration and troubles with my family as it just doesn't work reliable. That is, if you use a third device as DMR. As long as you play music on the DMC (so using it as player and not controller) then most of them work fine. But I want to play my music on my Denon receiver, which is DLNA capable (more or less). And it seems to me, that the DLNA standard is not designed very well, and in such a setting with distributed roles does not work. Almost every time the playback stops after some tracks, sometimes it is not possible to continue playing until I restart all devices! And beware if more than one person starts a controller on his/her iPad/iPhone...
In addition, most of the DLNA apps are way too complicated to use. So in the end there are two which are more or less OK. 8player is the best on the technical side (more reliable, more compatible), but the UI drives me crazy. The best UI of all DLNA apps has PlugPlayer, I mean this is really good, but it is not as reliable. In the end none of the apps gave us (my family and me) what we wanted.

Then I turned to JRemote and this is like heaven on earth. It has the best UI of all (similar to PlugPlayer, but even better), and as it remotely controlls JRiver eliminates one DLNA role (DMS and DMC is JRiver now). It works much more reliable and for now is the way I chose. But yes, it has some drawbacks, as I have to run a PC 24h a day.

And I really, really hope, that JRiver will be available for Linux some day, or even better as a Synology package!  8)

My recommendation:
Try Synology NAS as DMS and an Android DMC first and see if this works out for you. If not, then purchase JRiver and JRemote.
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csimon

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Re: Trying to come up with a sensible setup
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2013, 09:27:15 am »

Then I turned to JRemote and this is like heaven on earth.

 :)


By the way, another problem with DLNA controllers is that they take over the device. For example, if you use JRemote to push data from JRiver to a WDTV, then you have to use the DLNA controller - JRemote (or JRiver on the PC that JRemote is attached to) - to fast-forward, rewind, pause etc.  I don't think this is too much of a problem with music, but it becomes annoying with movies.  If you want to pause or rewind or fast-forward, you have to pick up your iPhone or iPad and bring it out of standby (you don't watch movies with a bright tablet screen in the corner of your eye do you, and wasting battery for the length of the movie?) and if wanting to rewind or fast-forward, you have an extremely small and fiddly scroll bar to move the current playing position to. It's very small in relation to the size of your finger and the length of the movie - the resolution is too small to get any accuracy out of positioning.

In this situation, I'd prefer to have the WDTV's simple remote control to hand and press the forward and back buttons.  however, while it is under the control of a DLNA controller, it won't respond to its own remote control.

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john_kane

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Re: Trying to come up with a sensible setup
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2013, 11:38:38 am »

+1 on many fronts.

I also have been searching for a sensible setup. I am currently trialing MC18.  I also have a Synology NAS (which I love), but find the DMS server settings and options too limiting.

I recently upgraded my TV and went with wall mount and downsized a large entertainment center to a low unit.  So lots of space lost (but nice and clean), and I'm trying to replicate prior functionality when I had a dedicated laptop and Syno NAS co-located in entertainment center.

I have been using a 'streaming' audio system to my receiver for a good 10+ years: SPDIF over cat5 (with baluns), using the main PC which lives in a armoire/desk in the family room.This has worked regardless of the  PC media s/w used , and worked before anyone had streaming worth talking about. And since my kids have iPods, iTunes is a necessary thing for them.

 This PC is in the same room, but too far away to direct connect to TV (short of hdmi over cat 6). This PC is often in dual use (someone is watching TV, some is doing work on PC).
 
I also used to run a slideshow of (preselected, pre-filtered) randomized photos on a laptop in the entertainment center when music was playing.  This ran off a dedicated program (Irfanview) which can accept a filelist of images, randomize, scale and present. Select 'play music' on the ole Harmony Remote, and it was auto-magical.

My AV components support varied degrees of DLNA profiles, the newest being the Panasonic plasma.   The first function I'm trying to replicate (SPDIF streaming is still flawless) is the slideshow.  Since the the past the slideshow just ran 24/7, anytime music was being played 'it just worked'.  So I'd really like to emulate the same kind of thing; it is always running, or starts automatically when music is selected.

Since the TV supports DMR, I thought I'd be able to serve slideshow from MC, functioning as a media controller.  MC certainly has flexibility and I can setup by filtered photo list by tags etc. But there is a DLNA clash here, and the slideshow won't auto advance when MC pushes to it.  Slideshow will auto advance if I use the TV as a DMP and pull the slideshow from MC.  But TV DMP slideshow options and interface are limited. And in DMP mode I can't zoom/scale the screen with the TV functions.  Since this is a plasma I'd like to fill or move photos around the screen as they play for even wear/IR prevention.

MC DLNA slideshow in media controller mode is a feature request that I see a couple others have made; but I'm currently stuck.

Since the TV also supports an embedded browser, I am playing with Web Gizmo and trying to skin the cat in this fashion.  I thought maybe I could build a custom view and achieve what I am after.  Image scaling doesn't seem to work here on the TV end (maybe due to the embedded browser not returning the correct viewport or display size settings). Attempts to scale up the image using the expand button doesn't work (but it does work if I web gizmo from my laptop).  TV supports limited zooming capabilities in browser mode, but there seems to be no way to hide the Viera browser frame/control buttons, and I don't want those static graphic elements up on the tv for hours at a time while music plays.



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Thor

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Re: Trying to come up with a sensible setup
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2013, 02:00:04 pm »

CSimon, thanks again for a detailed reply.

When I mentioned playlists I actually meant the saved kinds.  My only first-person user experience with playlists is from iTunes and they are saved.  They can then be played back either sequentially or shuffled.

I think I understand the playlist/library interaction now, but just to be sure - if I want to use JRiver to create playlists, these must be in the JRiver library which must be part of the JRiver media server.  So in this case, JRiver must be the media server and the NAS must only be a file storage system, not using its built-in DLNA server.  If I want to use the NAS DLNA media server, I must create playlists using the Synology interface and these playlists are stored on the NAS and JRiver merely accesses the playlists that are there.  Is that all correct?

If the above is correct, it obviously makes no sense to use the DLNA server on the NAS as this would be very limiting.  But that does bring up one other question - if I use JRiver as the media server and the NAS as a file storage unit for JRiver, can I still use the NAS DLNA media server with the same actual audio data files stored on the NAS?  The example is that I would use JRiver to push data from it's own media server (using NAS stored files) to one DMR but would use a different DMP to directly pull music from the NAS DLNA media server.  In this case, can the actual audio FLAC files stored on the NAS be the same files and be accessed by both the NAS DLNA server and the JRiver media server, or do I need to copy all my FLAC files and have two instances on the NAS, one for each media server?


As for shuffle, I will post that question individually on the MC18 forum.


My zone system...
I need to first state that I haven't actually used it yet, so I can't for sure say it is synced, but I would be very surprised if it isn't.  The system uses either a single or multi-source module for input of audio (analog only).  The input is then transferred via CAT5 to the central zone distribution module; the one I use can feed up to 8 zones.  The zones are also fed via CAT5.  Each zone consists of one amplifier/controller that connects to the speakers.  The input module is by my stereo system, the zone distribution module is in a structured wiring cabinet built into a wall, and the local zone amp/controllers are designed to take up one single gangbox each so they actually reside by light switches in the rooms where the speakers are in-ceiling.  Wiring is all running in the walls and ceilings.  The controller is pretty basic in that you can choose which of the inputs it plays, volume, mute and there is the ability to have all zones respond in a sort of party mode to one controller or you can use each zone separately controlled by its local controller.  It all sounds great for simple playback (as long as it works as advertised).  Now with the JRiver, I can feed the input module with streamed audio from a DMR and use the Gizmo app to locally have a GUI to have the shuffle, playback, etc. control.  So all music control is by Gizmo (or directly by PC tablet and JRiver) and the only thing the local controller does is volume (and maybe party mode).  Their party mode is what makes me assume that all audio output from their zones is synced.  And there is really only one actual audio input - at their input module.  If I want to sync my stereo system in the living room with the zone system, all I need to do is use the stereo system receiver as the DMR and feed either its analog audio output or one if its analog zone outputs to the zone system input module.

The system is called Lyriq and is by the ON-Q division of Legrand.  You can get it at Crutchfield but I don't know if all parts required are available through them.  I bought it from a local electrical distributor.  I did my research as to the devices I need to complete the system and just gave the distributor the list.  I learned about the system components by doing my research at Legrand's website.  I haven't installed it yet but have done all the wiring and am now installing the speakers.  I bought it a while ago and am doing this as part of a remodel to my place.  Once it's installed I can provide a little review on here.
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Thor

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Re: Trying to come up with a sensible setup
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2013, 02:02:19 pm »

Rubberduck,

thanks for your reply as well.  Have you ever tried or at least heard of an Android DMC app called 2player?  It sounds pretty good and the reviews on the Android play website are good as well.
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csimon

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Re: Trying to come up with a sensible setup
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2013, 05:21:49 am »

I think I understand the playlist/library interaction now, but just to be sure - if I want to use JRiver to create playlists, these must be in the JRiver library which must be part of the JRiver media server.  So in this case, JRiver must be the media server and the NAS must only be a file storage system, not using its built-in DLNA server.  If I want to use the NAS DLNA media server, I must create playlists using the Synology interface and these playlists are stored on the NAS and JRiver merely accesses the playlists that are there.  Is that all correct?

Yes, that is my understanding.  Note however that you can create playlist files, although I've never done this and  don't really know what I'm talking about! e.g. playlist.pls (or m3u is it?) and I understand any media server/player can recognise these, they are global?  Therefore you can create and save a playlist in one program and load it and play in another?

Quote
if I use JRiver as the media server and the NAS as a file storage unit for JRiver, can I still use the NAS DLNA media server with the same actual audio data files stored on the NAS?

Yes,  I don't see a problem with that.  It's two programs reading the same files, I don't think this should cause a problem.  As long as you are not writing tags to the files from both programs.   Assuming the file system handles such cases, your programs might get confused and out-of-sync with the metadata.

Quote
The system is called Lyriq and is by the ON-Q division of Legrand....

OK, thanks for explaining.  I was looking at the Opus 300 system but it's over the top for what I would want, although it would be very nice!  I don't need diferent audio in each zone so a wireless audio receiver with powered speakers in each room is good enough for me - all the Opus system would offer me over this is local independent choice of up to 4 audio sources with a built-in amplifier and volume control in a wall switch.  And the wiring would be a problem in this house.
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Rubberduck0

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Re: Trying to come up with a sensible setup
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2013, 07:04:32 am »

Rubberduck,

thanks for your reply as well.  Have you ever tried or at least heard of an Android DMC app called 2player?  It sounds pretty good and the reviews on the Android play website are good as well.

No, sorry. I decided to go the Apple way back then when Android was no alternative. Sooner or later I might change to Android, but until now I have no experience with it at all.
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