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[Captor]

Hi
What must I backup in order to get my MC exactly the same as it is now if I have a crash and must reinstall MC or change computer or something. I mean besides my music flac files of course.

And is it possible to make this process automatically on a daily basis every time I start MC or something like that?

Thanks in advance

[wig]

Backups are automated; take a look at the Wiki entry.

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Backup_Library

I'd recommend changing the backup location to a different physical drive than library drive.

[glynor]

The backups made contain:

1. All settings in Options and the DSP (and everywhere else).  Everything but license registration.
2. The entire current Library (database), all views, metadata, Theater View setup, Auto-Import setup, Media Network setup, etc.

One thing to keep in mind is that it does only automatically back up the current Library.  If you use more than one, but only use the "auxiliary" Libraries occasionally, you could be slim on backups for THOSE libraries.  Now, when you switch, it does generally trigger an automatic backup, so it isn't the end of the world, but keep that in mind if you use multiple Libraries.

[rjm]

Also manually backup Program Files if you care about skins, keyboard customizations, language customizations, custom web pages, and plug-ins.

[Captor]

OK, were can I find all this files? What is the name of the folders to backup?

[rjm]

OK, were can I find all this files? What is the name of the folders to backup?

It depends on where you installed MC. On most most computers the location will be
C:\Program Files (x86)\J River\

You can probably figure out what's what by looking at the folders and files there however the simplest and quickest thing is to just copy it all.

It's only about 100MB so some extra files you don't need are no big deal.

[Captor]

So you are copying the whole J River folder? Well that sounds easy enough.

[InflatableMouse]

It might not be handy to copy it all because if you then assume you can copy it all back after a reinstall you may run into issues with updated skins and plugin components. I would advise to only copy custom items or at least remember this when you restore.

In C:\Program Files (x86)\J River\Media Center 18\

The folder Skins, Visualizations and Plugins may contain custom items.

Also C:\Users\YourAccount\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 18\Plugins may contain something too (I sometimes copy LAV and MadVR settings).

I don't think the following is really necessary, but while we are at it:

C:\Program Files (x86)\J River\Media Center 18\Data\

May contain customized webviews (but not unless you edit them) and the folder Saved Views can contain customized views you've created and saved (but these are included in the regular MC backups). I backup them manually because I synchronize them between installations of MC on different PC's.

[Captor]

I see, so if I sync following folders to another drive I would cover it all?

C:\users\account\appdata\roaming\JRiver

C:\users\account\documents\JRiver\Media Center 18\Library Backup

C:\program files (x86)\JRiver

And then paying attention and only restore custom items. Like Skins, Visualizations, Plugins, Data.

About the second one: C:\users\account\documents\JRiver\Media Center 18\Library Backup maybe
it is better I sync: C:\users\account\documents\JRiver\

Because if I have the first path in my sync software GoodSync it will only synd the Media Center 18 files. But
after update to MC19 they will not be synced because it it MC18 in the path.

Is that correct so far?

Why do they (JRiver) spread it out all over the half C-drive. Would it not be more easy to put all the file that should be back up in one single folder?

[kstuart]

Backups are automated; take a look at the Wiki entry.

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Backup_Library

I'd recommend changing the backup location to a different physical drive than library drive.

Ooh - that's an excellent idea.

In fact, it's also a good example of something that can't be done automatically (since it's impossible to know which other drives are permanent, and which are temporarily present).

[InflatableMouse]

I see, so if I sync following folders to another drive I would cover it all?

C:\users\account\appdata\roaming\JRiver

C:\users\account\documents\JRiver\Media Center 18\Library Backup

C:\program files (x86)\JRiver

And then paying attention and only restore custom items. Like Skins, Visualizations, Plugins, Data.

Yes, that looks correct.

About the second one: C:\users\account\documents\JRiver\Media Center 18\Library Backup maybe
it is better I sync: C:\users\account\documents\JRiver\

Because if I have the first path in my sync software GoodSync it will only synd the Media Center 18 files. But
after update to MC19 they will not be synced because it it MC18 in the path.

Is that correct so far?

Yes, its perfectly fine to take the parent folder.

Why do they (JRiver) spread it out all over the half C-drive. Would it not be more easy to put all the file that should be back up in one single folder?

The only thing I believe should be changed is whatever is stored in Program Files. Nothing should be there except, Program Files. The rest is fine if you ask me.

[glynor]

The only thing I believe should be changed is whatever is stored in Program Files. Nothing should be there except, Program Files. The rest is fine if you ask me.

Because the contents of C:\Program Files (x86)\JRiver\ are application-scoped assets (applicable to every user on the system).
The contents of <User>\AppData\Roaming\JRiver\ are user-scoped assets (applicable to, and owned by, the current user).

They could store the stuff from Program Files in the C:\ProgramData\ directory instead, but that wouldn't help anything, and would just add yet another folder.

It would be nice if third-party assets from Program Files were included with the Library Backup, but they aren't currently.

One other note...

C:\users\account\appdata\roaming\JRiver

If you use the default Library, it will be stored in this directory.

However, you DO NOT want to restore it via this mechanism.  First of all, all of the user-settings are stored in the registry under HKCU\Software\JRiver\ so that wouldn't get you back up and running fully.  Secondly, the database can't be backed up when it is in-active-use (it is locked and may not be synchronized), so if you ever hit trouble, restoring the Library from this backup location WILL NOT (or probably will not) work properly.

There are also issues with Library Specific GUIDs and the Auto-Import settings if you do it this way.

You should use the built-in Backup\Restore system to restore settings and the Library, should you ever need to do so.  If you have custom assets in the Program Files directory (most people probably don't) then you could follow these steps:

1. Restore C:\Program Files (x86)\JRiver\Media Center 18\ (and maybe the AppData directory, but be careful to NOT restore the current Default Library, or your copy of MC may refuse to load).
2. Reinstall MC using the installer for the latest build.
3. Restore a Library backup using the built-in system, which will restore all of your settings and the full Library.

[pcstockton]

Is there a way to make a backup remember which columns you use in views?  Every time I upgrade it reverts all views back to including Filename, Bitrate, Ratings, etc that I remove from all views like Playing Now, Artist, Album etc....

Thanks!
Patrick

[glynor]

Is there a way to make a backup remember which columns you use in views?  Every time I upgrade it reverts all views back to including Filename, Bitrate, Ratings, etc that I remove from all views like Playing Now, Artist, Album etc....

That's included in the Library.

It should NOT get reset.  The only exceptions are certain "special views" (including the Recently Imported list, and stuff like that).  Otherwise, these should NOT be lost when you do a simple minor-point-version upgrade.  When you switch from MC17 > MC18 (or any other "major version") some of this may get reset, though you can usually preserve it by restoring from a Library backup.

If that is happening, I suspect something is borked in your Library.  You might want to try just making a backup, restarting MC, clearing the Library, restarting MC again, and then restoring from your backup.

Possibly some kind of permissions issue?

[Captor]

Thank you all!
Glynor I will look into the build in backup tomorrow. Maybe I have to come up with more questions.

[InflatableMouse]

Because the contents of C:\Program Files (x86)\JRiver\ are application-scoped assets (applicable to every user on the system).
The contents of <User>\AppData\Roaming\JRiver\ are user-scoped assets (applicable to, and owned by, the current user).

Yes ... but ...

Isn't that what Public and/or all users are for?

I know there's no AppData\Roaming there, but the things we are talking about here doesn't have to be there perse, it can be somewhere under Public\JRiver\younameit. So all the default Views, Skins and Plugins are installed in Program Files. Extra stuff the user installs goes to All Users or Public and is available to every user profile running MC.

Permissions in Program Files in pre-win8 versions wasn't an issue. I've been working with Win8 for a while now and even as a local Administrator it starts whining about permissions if I wish to copy to or edit in Program Files\. I can't for instance edit the Gizmo html files with Notepad. Now, I know how to fix all that, that's not the point. Many other users won't know that and will just get annoyed or confused.

[glynor]

Yes ... but ...

Isn't that what Public and/or all users are for?

I know there's no AppData\Roaming there,

There is, it is just a hidden redirect to C:\ProgramData\

And, yes, they could use it.  But, again, what would that solve?  That would STILL add a second folder to backup, and it would then be (again) segregated from C:\Program Files\.  Plus, this is all stuff that is done by third-parties.  JRiver has only some control over where they choose to install stuff.  They could, of course, require it differently, but...

I don't know.  I don't back the Program Files folder up.  If I download a plugin or customize a skin, I save those customizations/downloads separately in my regular "installer/software archive" where I have all of my stuff.  That gets backed up, of course, and if I ever have a catastropic failure, I'd just reinstall them from their "installers" or zip files.

[pcstockton]

That's included in the Library.

It should NOT get reset.  The only exceptions are certain "special views" (including the Recently Imported list, and stuff like that).  Otherwise, these should NOT be lost when you do a simple minor-point-version upgrade.  When you switch from MC17 > MC18 (or any other "major version") some of this may get reset, though you can usually preserve it by restoring from a Library backup.

If that is happening, I suspect something is borked in your Library.  You might want to try just making a backup, restarting MC, clearing the Library, restarting MC again, and then restoring from your backup.

Possibly some kind of permissions issue?

Thanks Glynor!  Yes, minor-point-version upgrades to not revert my columns.  But when going from 16>17>18 it does.

Are you saying I can upgrade to 18, then restore from backup and get my columns back?

It isn't a big deal, but I always heavily customize the columns, and their relative widths, in ALL views.

Is there a way to apply this column set-up to all views?  Or must I manually configure each one?

Thanks!
Patrick

[Captor]

Inflatable mouse, I have now arranged my software Goodsync to sync the 3 folders above that we talked about yesterday. Plus the music folder of course were I have my flac files. They are all synced to another hidden harddrive on my wireless network. Hopefully the thief donīt find that at least :-)
So thank you very much for clearifying that to me.

glyner, I have also read what you said:

C:\users\account\appdata\roaming\JRiver

If you use the default Library, it will be stored in this directory.

However, you DO NOT want to restore it via this mechanism.  First of all, all of the user-settings are stored in the registry under HKCU\Software\JRiver\ so that wouldn't get you back up and running fully.  Secondly, the database can't be backed up when it is in-active-use (it is locked and may not be synchronized), so if you ever hit trouble, restoring the Library from this backup location WILL NOT (or probably will not) work properly.

There are also issues with Library Specific GUIDs and the Auto-Import settings if you do it this way.

You should use the built-in Backup\Restore system to restore settings and the Library, should you ever need to do so.  If you have custom assets in the Program Files directory (most people probably don't) then you could follow these steps:

1. Restore C:\Program Files (x86)\JRiver\Media Center 18\ (and maybe the AppData directory, but be careful to NOT restore the current Default Library, or your copy of MC may refuse to load).
2. Reinstall MC using the installer for the latest build.
3. Restore a Library backup using the built-in system, which will restore all of your settings and the full Library.

What do you mean by:  but be careful to NOT restore the current Default Library, or your copy of MC may refuse to load

If I had a computer crash there will not be any current Default Library. Or what do you mean?

I would in that case install the latest MC and after that restore a Library backup. And skip the first step about restoring
"C:\Program Files (x86)\JRiver\Media Center 18\ (and maybe the AppData directory"

If I make a backup manually in MC the zip filed is saved in C:\users\account\appdata\roaming\JRiver\media cemter 18\Library Backups.....
When I open this folder I did notice that there are only 1 zip-file so far from another date when I made a backup manually.
So now I wonder, where are all the other backup files done automatically by MC? Are they in another folder? Or is in not working?

Puh! Many questions... sorry about that ?

[InflatableMouse]

Inflatable mouse, I have now arranged my software Goodsync to sync the 3 folders above that we talked about yesterday. Plus the music folder of course were I have my flac files. They are all synced to another hidden harddrive on my wireless network. Hopefully the thief donīt find that at least :-)
So thank you very much for clearifying that to me.

Your welcome! I hope you never need it  .

[Captor]

Haha... yes me too!!

[glynor]

If I had a computer crash there will not be any current Default Library. Or what do you mean?

I would in that case install the latest MC and after that restore a Library backup. And skip the first step about restoring
"C:\Program Files (x86)\JRiver\Media Center 18\ (and maybe the AppData directory"

Correct.  There would not be any current Default Library.

However, if you restore the backup of the AppData directory, it will make one (overwriting the "blank" thing that is there) and then MC will try to use it when it launches the next time.

And may fail to launch.  The reason is simple:  When you do a backup through "the system" (via File > Library > Backup Library or one of the equivalent means), MC ensures that the Library is in a "synchronized state" before creating the backup ZIP file.  It essentially tells the rest of the threads "stop for a minute", "unmounts" the Library for a second, backs it up, and then puts everything back online and says "Ok, go."

Goodsync is just going to sync the stuff that is there, live updating, all the time.  Also, when a Library is in-active-use, MC creates a "flag file" in the Library location (lock.jmd) that "locks" the Library into read-only mode for any other subsequent copies of MC that might try to connect to the same Library simultaneously.  If you copy that file over into your folder on the new install, MC will only open in read-only mode (leading to a common noob support question here on Interact).

So....

Go ahead and use Goodsync to sync those folders to an off-system-disk backup location.  However, when you are setting up the Sync of the AppData folder, exclude the C:\Users\<USERNAME>\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 18\Library folder from the sync.  That's all.  That particular folder will be useless and might cause trouble if it is included.

To restore the actual Library content, use the backups generated by MC.

Okay, that sorted, onto this:

If I make a backup manually in MC the zip filed is saved in C:\users\account\appdata\roaming\JRiver\media cemter 18\Library Backups.....
When I open this folder I did notice that there are only 1 zip-file so far from another date when I made a backup manually.
So now I wonder, where are all the other backup files done automatically by MC? Are they in another folder? Or is in not working?

That's actually a legacy location, unless you manually moved the backup location back in there.  The default Library backup location is now:
<USER DOCUMENTS DIR>\JRiver\Media Center 18\Library Backups

That makes them easier to find for people who have never heard of AppData and don't know how to turn on hidden files in Windows.

You can set this directory to wherever you'd like via Options > File Locations > Program Files > Library Backup.  I recommend you move this directory to somewhere on a separate disk (probably wherever you're having Goodsync backup the rest of the stuff).

MC makes automatic backups of the Library essentially every day.  However, it only does this when it is "starting up" (and maybe also when shutting down), and not while it is running.  This isn't a problem if you:  Use MC without it set to launch in the system tray at boot (Library Server mode), or install new builds regularly, or just reboot your computer occasionally to do Windows Updates or whatever.

In all those cases, you should have a good collection of Library Backups.  It does purge them as it goes, but it keeps them a long way back.  Here's mine, from right now:



I didn't make any of those (or few of them) manually.  I have a variety of options all the way back to December 2, 2012 (the "December" backup), which if I needed to restore from that long ago, would make me want to kill myself anyway.

If you're going to sync something, sync those.  But, like I said, you can also just move the default location for the auto-backups to a safer disk.*

* - I should note... I actually don't do this.  I leave the default location for backups right where it is (in My Documents) and I have Goodsync set to back that entire directory (my whole Users disk, actually) over to two different backup locations (one onsite and one offsite).  So, my backups are in the "expected place" but also get saved offsite and archived for a while through the Goodsync "keep old versions" feature.

Also, isn't Goodsync the greatest thing since sliced bread?  I kind-of hate the UI, but man it works well if you can bumble through the UI stupidness.  I really, really wish that somehow they'd just hook up with the SyncBack people and somehow staple the SyncBack UI onto the Goodsync engine/backend.

[Captor]

Dear Glynor
Thanks again for your support. I start to understand things now :-)

Go ahead and use Goodsync to sync those folders to an off-system-disk backup location.  However, when you are setting up the Sync of the AppData folder, exclude the C:\Users\<USERNAME>\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 18\Library folder from the sync.  That's all.  That particular folder will be useless and might cause trouble if it is included.

To restore the actual Library content, use the backups generated by MC.

Right, I understand. Now. Hopefully I will do that too when the catastrophe is a fact...

That's actually a legacy location, unless you manually moved the backup location back in there.  The default Library backup location is now:
<USER DOCUMENTS DIR>\JRiver\Media Center 18\Library Backups

That makes them easier to find for people who have never heard of AppData and don't know how to turn on hidden files in Windows.

You can set this directory to wherever you'd like via Options > File Locations > Program Files > Library Backup.  I recommend you move this directory to somewhere on a separate disk (probably wherever you're having Goodsync backup the rest of the stuff).

MC makes automatic backups of the Library essentially every day.  However, it only does this when it is "starting up" (and maybe also when shutting down), and not while it is running.  This isn't a problem if you:  Use MC without it set to launch in the system tray at boot (Library Server mode), or install new builds regularly, or just reboot your computer occasionally to do Windows Updates or whatever.

In all those cases, you should have a good collection of Library Backups.  It does purge them as it goes, but it keeps them a long way back.  Here's mine, from right now:

I have this covered as well. However, in the default location. I could put this together with the manually backups so that >I have them all in one place but I wonder what happen when MC19 comes out? Will that then again put them back to the default location? Do you know something about that? Maybe better let it be and sync them both to another drive on the network. And then I have to remember that the backups are in 2 different locations.

I have a variety of options all the way back to December 2, 2012 (the "December" backup), which if I needed to restore from that long ago, would make me want to kill myself anyway.

Haha... yes I understand what you mean :-)

* - I should note... I actually don't do this.  I leave the default location for backups right where it is (in My Documents) and I have Goodsync set to back that entire directory (my whole Users disk, actually) over to two different backup locations (one onsite and one offsite).  So, my backups are in the "expected place" but also get saved offsite and archived for a while through the Goodsync "keep old versions" feature.

Right! I will do the same!

Also, isn't Goodsync the greatest thing since sliced bread?  I kind-of hate the UI, but man it works well if you can bumble through the UI stupidness.  I really, really wish that somehow they'd just hook up with the SyncBack people and somehow staple the SyncBack UI onto the Goodsync engine/backend.

Haha... Yes it is indeed! Itīs the greatest sync software! And now the new ver. 9 has even more features. Have you looked into that? Maybe you have that already. But id not, take a look at the webpage.
The support at GoodSync however sucks in contrary to the support you provide :-)

I will soon buy a bigger harddrive and change the one were I have MC.
Do you have any suggestion how to do that in the most less painful way? Maybe mirroring the old drive and export everything to the new?

[csimon]

Quick question - do backups contain machine-specific settings?  For example, if PCs have different audio hardware, what happens if you restore from a backup made on one PC (in order to duplicate its library) whose audio output is set to a DAC but the second PC has onboard audio?

[InflatableMouse]

If a device cannot be found, it reverts to the system (OS) default.

[glynor]

I have this covered as well. However, in the default location. I could put this together with the manually backups so that >I have them all in one place but I wonder what happen when MC19 comes out?

MC19 will almost certainly be able to import your settings from MC18 via restoring a Library Backup (MC17>18 worked this way).  If not, though, or if it doesn't "keep" this setting for some reason, it would just revert back to the default <My Documents>\JRiver\Media Center 19\Library Backups\ folder.

However, this won't matter at all if you're syncing the entire <My Documents>\JRiver\ folder, and you could always change it anyway.

And now the new ver. 9 has even more features. Have you looked into that? Maybe you have that already.

Yep, I'm current with them.  I like it a lot.  I've had one good experience with their support system (I found a problem in the Mac version, explained it, and they fixed it on the next release), and I had one poor one (just got a non-helpful "form letter" type reply that didn't really address my issue).  But, all in all, no better or worse than other companies I've dealt with.

Do you have any suggestion how to do that in the most less painful way? Maybe mirroring the old drive and export everything to the new?

It depends what you want to accomplish.

The easiest thing, by far, would be to clone your existing data over onto the new drive and just replace it in-place.  I've fairly recently switched over to Macrium Reflect as my disk imaging software and I couldn't be more pleased with their product.  It would be a pretty simple matter if you are just cloning from an existing drive over to a new, bigger one.

You can, of course, have your media stored in different locations on disk within MC.  It doesn't care where the files live!  So, you could also, conceivably, just add a new disk and keep the one you have in-place as well.

[Captor]

Quick question - do backups contain machine-specific settings?  For example, if PCs have different audio hardware, what happens if you restore from a backup made on one PC (in order to duplicate its library) whose audio output is set to a DAC but the second PC has onboard audio?

Hi, no, backup does not contain machine-specific settings. I use an non-onboard DAC so that one only
takes care of the signal from the PC. This backup is strictly about software settings and of course my flac music files.

[Captor]

 

MC19 will almost certainly be able to import your settings from MC18 via restoring a Library Backup (MC17>18 worked this way).  If not, though, or if it doesn't "keep" this setting for some reason, it would just revert back to the default <My Documents>\JRiver\Media Center 19\Library Backups\ folder.

However, this won't matter at all if you're syncing the entire <My Documents>\JRiver\ folder, and you could always change it anyway.

Yep, I'm current with them.  I like it a lot.  I've had one good experience with their support system (I found a problem in the Mac version, explained it, and they fixed it on the next release), and I had one poor one (just got a non-helpful "form letter" type reply that didn't really address my issue).  But, all in all, no better or worse than other companies I've dealt with.

It depends what you want to accomplish.

The easiest thing, by far, would be to clone your existing data over onto the new drive and just replace it in-place.  I've fairly recently switched over to Macrium Reflect as my disk imaging software and I couldn't be more pleased with their product.  It would be a pretty simple matter if you are just cloning from an existing drive over to a new, bigger one.

You can, of course, have your media stored in different locations on disk within MC.  It doesn't care where the files live!  So, you could also, conceivably, just add a new disk and keep the one you have in-place as well.

Glynor, I will look into Macrium. First I thought it is a Mac software. And you talked about Mac as well when you contacted the Goodsync support above. But then I googled anyway and can see it is for win. So I have already downloaded the freeware version. Thanks for the tip! Again!! You have really helped a lot about my MC issues. Many thanks for that! It is really appreciated and not taking for granted.

Today I have 1 harddrive with 2 partitions, C and D. I have all software on C and all library files (flac, ISO, img and so on) on D. The harddrive is only 500 GB and there is no space for another harddrive inside the small cabinet. It is a small Asrock 3D. There is only space for 1 harddrive. I was thinking of an external 2 TB harddrive maybe as an alternative and put that on top of the asrock. That would be a solution as well. Easy.
Maybe I go for that, now when I writing about it that sounds to be a good idea 
Or maybe I do both.... harddrive spaec is always required.
The DAC is inside my CD-player from the german brand Audionet. The name is Audionet ART G2. So you can say that the
PC is only storage and transport for my flac files. Ruffly spoken.
For film I actually donīt use MC. I use XBMC for that. I have read that MC is very good for movie as well but XBMC seems
to be more easy to handle. I am used to that at least.

[bobkatz]

Being the nervous type I want to ask (confirm) in this thread that the library backup keeps a copy of my precious EQ and parametric settings from DSP studio?


Thanks,


Bob

[glynor]

Being the nervous type I want to ask (confirm) in this thread that the library backup keeps a copy of my precious EQ and parametric settings from DSP studio?

Yes.