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Author Topic: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers  (Read 35227 times)

mwillems

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Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« on: March 01, 2013, 09:56:44 pm »

There seem to be a lot of folks with a lot of experience of different equipment on these forums, so I thought I'd throw a question out.  I'm looking for a low wattage stereo amp for a pair of very sensitive compression drivers.  Their sensitivity is 113 dB 1W/1M which means I really don't need much (my normal listening level requires 10 or 20 milliwatts), but they're also merciless about revealing the noise floor on most amps

For headroom I'd like the amp to deliver at least 1 watt, 10 watts at the very most.  I'd use a more powerful amp, but I'm concerned about the odd power surge or hardware failure.  The drivers claim they're rated to 40 watts, but I'm not sure there'd be much left of my ears if 40 watts went into them (129 dB!).

So far, the only amps I've found that fit the bill are hi-powered headphone amps, but most of those have 5 or 10 Ohm output impedances, which is fine for a pair of 600 Ohm Senns, but not so great for a pair of 16 Ohm compression drivers.  I'm currently driving them off of a 1 watt headphone amp with a 10 Ohm output impedance, and it's quiet and sounds pretty good, but there are frequency response anomalies, and I can't escape the feeling I could do a little better.

So does anyone know of any low-wattage, low-noise noise amplifiers floating around?  It'd be a bonus if it were compact, and didn't cost the earth, but I'm flexible on both those points if it's: low noise, low watts, and can drive 16 Ohms cheerfully.
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hulkss

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2013, 10:25:54 pm »

The Crown D45 would be 20 watts per channel. It can be found for under $500 and has no fans for cooling.
It has a proven history for critical listening in mastering lab use.
It has detented level controls so you can precisely set the gain for each channel if you want to turn down the power.
http://www.crownaudio.com/media/pdf/amps/136711.pdf

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mwillems

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2013, 11:23:58 pm »

The Crown D45 would be 20 watts per channel. It can be found for under $500 and has no fans for cooling.
It has a proven history for critical listening in mastering lab use.
It has detented level controls so you can precisely set the gain for each channel if you want to turn down the power.
http://www.crownaudio.com/media/pdf/amps/136711.pdf



Thanks for that; it's a little more powerful than I was looking for, but fixed/fixable hardware volume solves that "problem."  And the specs look amazing.  I've heard a few of the larger Crowns and I've always been impressed with their sound.  I'll put this one in the "competitive range" pile, along with the only other potentially suitable amp I've identified, the Schiit Magni (which is a low output impedance, low noise, 1.2 watt headphone amp). 
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hulkss

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2013, 02:30:06 am »

With highly dynamic recordings, peaks will easily reach 110 dB at normal listening levels (at the speaker rated distance of 1 meter). Don't limit your dynamic range, you'll be impressed with how some dynamic headroom will bring realism to your audio.
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mwillems

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2013, 07:40:05 am »

With highly dynamic recordings, peaks will easily reach 110 dB at normal listening levels (at the speaker rated distance of 1 meter). Don't limit your dynamic range, you'll be impressed with how some dynamic headroom will bring realism to your audio.

I take your point, and I actually thought about that.  My listening room is relatively small (all listening positions are between 2 and 4 meters from the speakers), and my set up is calibrated to 83 dB at -20dB pink noise at the primary listening position (which is 3 meters away), and ideally I'd like at least 20 dB of overhead.  My initial calculations suggested that I'd need 2 watts at the most to achieve that objective, and ironically, I actually used the Crown amplifier "power required" calculator to confirm. http://www.crownaudio.com/elect-pwr-req.htm

My sense is that 2 watts would get me to 103 dB at 4 meters, but I imagine that 103 dB wouldn't sound the best  ;D  

Thanks for the food for thought, I'll keep chewing on it.  That Crown amp is looking better and better.
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mojave

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2013, 06:11:57 pm »

Parts Express has quite a few Class-T amps. I've used one and I've read that several pro audio guys with high efficiency speakers are also using them. Here is one that would work:  Dayton Audio DTA-100a.
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pcstockton

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2013, 06:50:43 pm »

Naim Audio.
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mwillems

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2013, 08:50:30 pm »

Parts Express has quite a few Class-T amps. I've used one and I've read that several pro audio guys with high efficiency speakers are also using them. Here is one that would work:  Dayton Audio DTA-100a.

Mojave, thanks for the recommendation.  I've actually tried several of the Parts Express T-amps with these compression drivers including that Dayton and a few other of the Tripath based T-amps (Lepai, etc.); unfortunately they have all been too high-noise (audible crackling or hiss from across the room) for these drivers. I've found other homes for the ones I wound up keeping, as they sound quite nice with less sensitive speakers.  

I've demoed probably sixteen or seventeen different amps with these drivers and the only amps I've found so far (with one exception) that don't cause clearly audible noise from the horns are high-powered headphone amps.  The exception was one of Nelson Pass's 25 watt class A amps (the J-2), which was dead quiet and sounded great, but cost more than 3K, which was well out of my price range.  

The root of the problem is that my normal listening level with these speakers is between 1 and 10 milliwatts of power (the drivers put out 93 dB at 10 milliwatts) and, in my experience, the distortion specs on most amps do not accurately describe the "first watt" of power being put out by the amp (i.e. the amp's behavior when putting out much, much less than a watt).  Because distortion is expressed as a percentage, the graph of an amp's distortion against it's power output usually looks a "U" with higher distortion percentages at very low power outputs; given the low level of the signal, certain kinds of fixed distortion will be much more pronounced.   But none of that is usually clearly captured in the literature unless the manufacturer is designing to this specific issue.

That's one thing that had me leaning heavily towards the Crown; they actually included separate specs for distortion at 1 watt and (in some cases) at less than .25 watts, which is encouraging for my application.  That's also one of the reasons I'm currently building a Hypex amp for another slightly less sensitive application (because their literature actually provides a complete graph of their amp module's distortion against power output so I can see for myself what my low-power distortion will look like).  

Finding an amp for these drivers has certainly been educational for me, and I'd welcome any other suggestions, Mojave (or from anybody else for that matter).  I may try and find a Crown to demo just to see.  If that doesn't work, I may just build one of the lower watt Hypexs with an attenuator.  But I'd much rather find an off the shelf solution in the sub-1K range.

@PCStockton:  Which model or design of Naim are you thinking of?  What are their distortion specs like?
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pcstockton

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2013, 01:57:56 am »


@PCStockton:  Which model or design of Naim are you thinking of?  What are their distortion specs like?

Dont worry about the specs.  It makes the most music.  Electric.  Toe tapping.  Punch, drive, fun.  Tight.  LIVE!!!

I would suggest the best you can afford.  Maybe start with a 202??  If not, the 155XS is $$$$$$$.

Naim amps are a favorite for any tough load, as well as extremely efficient speaker, e.g. Zu.
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mwillems

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2013, 07:34:58 am »

Dont worry about the specs.  It makes the most music.  Electric.  Toe tapping.  Punch, drive, fun.  Tight.  LIVE!!!

I would suggest the best you can afford.  Maybe start with a 202??  If not, the 155XS is $$$$$$$.

Naim amps are a favorite for any tough load, as well as extremely efficient speaker, e.g. Zu.

Well, I'll confess I do worry about the specs, and the fact that I couldn't find any specs in their literature was a bit disturbing to me.  I'm sure they're somewhere in their literature; maybe I just missed it? 

I'm not sure any of my local places carry them, but I'll see if I can arrange to listen to one at some point. I'm a little skeptical, because my experience has generally been that (at least with amps and DACs) the one's that measure better, sound better to me, with very few exceptions.  This holds true even when I didn't know the specs when I heard them (but only discovered them later). 

It's also been my experience that manufacturers who provide extremely detailed distortion specs do so because they have a high-quality product (which they want to show off), while manufacturers who provide no specs or minimal specs are hiding something unpleasant about their design.

I'll try to keep an open mind, and I'm always willing to be proven wrong  ;D
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natehansen66

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2013, 03:58:48 pm »

What's your setup like? Dac, preamp, active, passive etc........

I use comp drivers in my active setup, and I have my DAC hooked up right to my amps and use MC for volume control. I built my amps with attenuators on the inputs. With the attenuators at full volume and the volume dialed back in MC I get a good bit of noise from my comp drivers (cheap amps though, Sure class D boards). Changing the gain structure, and sending the amps a higher signal and attenuating at the amp makes a huge difference in the noise of my system, though my room has a fairly high noise floor. That way I'm making better use of the my amps SNR as well as my DAC's. Sounds like you could use an amp with less gain (not just level), not easy to find though I've been looking.

If you're into DIY you might look at Class-D Audio: http://classdaudio.com/. They have a mini 15 watt stereo amp for cheap. They have a higher level line of amps as well with variable gain. I haven't confirmed if it's actually variable gain or an attenuator but if it is variable gain that's the route I'm going to go. Smallest one is 60 watts into 8 ohms. These have gotten very good reviews.

I've also heard of guys with active cd systems putting an l-pad on the tweeter to quiet them down.
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mwillems

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2013, 05:10:43 pm »

What's your setup like? Dac, preamp, active, passive etc........

I use comp drivers in my active setup, and I have my DAC hooked up right to my amps and use MC for volume control. I built my amps with attenuators on the inputs. With the attenuators at full volume and the volume dialed back in MC I get a good bit of noise from my comp drivers (cheap amps though, Sure class D boards). Changing the gain structure, and sending the amps a higher signal and attenuating at the amp makes a huge difference in the noise of my system, though my room has a fairly high noise floor. That way I'm making better use of the my amps SNR as well as my DAC's. Sounds like you could use an amp with less gain (not just level), not easy to find though I've been looking.

If you're into DIY you might look at Class-D Audio: http://classdaudio.com/. They have a mini 15 watt stereo amp for cheap. They have a higher level line of amps as well with variable gain. I haven't confirmed if it's actually variable gain or an attenuator but if it is variable gain that's the route I'm going to go. Smallest one is 60 watts into 8 ohms. These have gotten very good reviews.

I've also heard of guys with active cd systems putting an l-pad on the tweeter to quiet them down.

My setup is similar to yours;  my DAC is hooked directly to my amps and I handle attenuation at the DAC rather than at the amps.  Turning down the amp's attenuation does help to some extent, but in several cases, the noise in question was equally loud regardless of the amp's attenuation settings, meaning I was just hearing the amp's noisefloor, push-pull crossover distortion, or some other relatively attenuation indifferent distortion source.  

I used an L-pad for a while before I found the headphone amp I'm currently using (a Fiio E09K), and it worked more or less (it didn't completely eliminate the noise, but tamed it to an acceptable degree).  L-pads aren't ideal, though, because they decouple the amp from the driver to some extent and hurt the damping;  which (to my mind) kind of defeats the purpose of having an ultra-sensitive high-resolution driver.  Everything sounded a little "smeared" with the L-pad.

I think you're right about needing less gain, though, which is why I'm looking for a lower powered amp.  Lower wattage typically means lower gain, which (hopefully) means lower noise-floor.  So far the two best sounding amps on these drivers have been a 25 watt per channel amp (the J-2) and a 1-watt headphone amp (the Fiio E9K).  With those two I can hear literally nothing out of the drivers with the DAC muted, and only the faintest rustling (with my ear all the way in the horn) with the DAC playing silence.  And in both cases the driver sounded spectacularly better than it did on a higher powered amp with an L-pad wired in.

I actually looked really hard at the 15 watt amp on the ClassDAudio site after a previous discussion about their amps in another thread, especially given the attractive price, but two things stopped me from ordering it to see: 1) all his other amps have a distortion spec, but the 15 watt amp doesn't have one at all (which makes me think it's probably not as low noise), and 2) a few months back I was seriously considering buying one of their larger amps to drive my mid-basses, and I wrote the company a few E-mails asking for a little more detail about their products, and they never answered me at all (which isn't encouraging from a customer service standpoint). I wound up ordering some DIY amps from Hypex instead, even though the cost was higher, because they have detailed specs and answer their mail. I'm looking forward to hearing what they do for my mid-basses once I'm done wiring them up. Unfortunately the lowest watt Hypex that still has acceptable noise specs is 80 watts at 8 Ohms which is a little high for my comfort level.  If you've heard that Class D amp though, please let me know, I would jump at that in a heart beat if it was quiet enough.

I made arrangements to demo the Crown D-45 (hopefully tomorrow);  I'll report back here once I've heard it.  
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pcstockton

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2013, 07:07:00 pm »

I am very surprised you buy gear based on the specs.  I only make judgements based on listening to music and couldn't care less what the specs say.  I want an amp/preamp/DAC/speaker/TT that is engaging and highly musical.  I want it to handle those transient attacks with grace and aplomb.  I have listened to MANY set-up with what would be considered "ideal" specs but they didn't move me.

Your room has FAR more effect on noise and sound quality than anything else in your set-up.

Regarding using a digital volume control, don't you think a well designed volume pot in a traditional preamp is the way to go?

-Patrick
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mwillems

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2013, 07:41:06 pm »

I am very surprised you buy gear based on the specs.  I only make judgements based on listening to music and couldn't care less what the specs say.  I want an amp/preamp/DAC/speaker/TT that is engaging and highly musical.  I want it to handle those transient attacks with grace and aplomb.  I have listened to MANY set-up with what would be considered "ideal" specs but they didn't move me.

Your room has FAR more effect on noise and sound quality than anything else in your set-up.

Regarding using a digital volume control, don't you think a well designed volume pot in a traditional preamp is the way to go?

-Patrick

I have limited access to hi-fi audio equipment for testing, and have to go out of my way (and invest a lot of time) to demo different items; the specs help weed out the time-wasters, especially given my use case.  I *do* trust my ears at the end of the day, they just usually (but not always) agree with the specs  ;D

Rooms do have a huge effect on sound, but in this case, I'm just trying to find an amp that doesn't produce loud static or hiss in my listening room (which is a little less subtle than a room effect), and that's where the specs come in.  The current amp sounds pretty good, but is a little underpowered, and has some problems with its 10 Ohm output impedance (which results in some objective, measurable, and quite unwelcome frequency response coloration)

As for the digital vs. analog volume control issue, a year ago I would have agreed with you.  I had a much more "analog-focused" setup until I started using JRiver as a crossover in my bi-amped active setup.  As a result I managed to eliminate several boxes that had previously been between my HTPC and my power amps, and every eliminated analog stage was an audible (and in many cases measureable) improvement in system performance.  My music is mostly digital and JRiver's volume control just attenuates the already digital signal, and unlike analog volume controls doesn't involve any added distortion, delay, Johnson noise (from the volume potentiometer), or plain old noise (from added electronics in the signal path).  

My DAC puts out a line level signal, and even the nicest electronics will add some noise to that signal. While I could probably find a pre with inaudibly low noise and four channels out, it would probably cost significantly more (by an order of magnitude) than what I've already paid for JRiver and not add much functionality (from my perspective). My current system design principal is to eliminate as many analog stages as possible, and JRiver has allowed me to eliminate all but the two necessary ones (DAC to amps, amps to speakers).
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HiFiTubes

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2013, 07:48:17 pm »

A solid state SIT amp wouldn't be cheap, or what about the Decware Superzen, or the monoblocks. 2w/ch and I know they can be run 16ohm.
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mwillems

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2013, 08:17:39 pm »

A solid state SIT amp wouldn't be cheap, or what about the Decware Superzen, or the monoblocks. 2w/ch and I know they can be run 16ohm.

If you're talking about the First Watt SIT amps, you're right, they'd probably be ideal for my purpose (if they weren't 5 or 10k).  I haven't heard the SITs, but I did get to hear the First Watt J-2, and it was fantastic.  It's a little rich for my blood right now (much less the SITs which are even steeper), but it surely did sound beautiful. 

The Superzens are a little closer to my price range, but I couldn't find any distortion or noise specs on them at all, do you happen to know what the noise floor is like on them?
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HiFiTubes

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2013, 08:25:18 pm »

Hi,

SIT ain't cheap, but it's neat tech, I too wish it was more affordable.

I use 97db/w drivers and my Decware EL34 Rachel SET amp is dead quiet. That said, you are way up there (in horn land?), so you should email Steve or post on the forum.

zen A     T    decware.com
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mwillems

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2013, 08:29:00 pm »

Hi,

SIT ain't cheap, but it's neat tech, I too wish it was more affordable.

I use 97db/w drivers and my Decware EL34 Rachel SET amp is dead quiet. That said, you are way up there (in horn land?), so you should email Steve or post on the forum.

zen A     T    decware.com

Thanks for the data point (sincerely); I've already arranged to demo the Crown, but if it doesn't work out, I'll shoot the Decware folks an E-mail.
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mojave

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2013, 08:34:22 am »

I have Digital Amp Company's Cherry Mono Plus Amps. They are designed to be very low distortion even at the first milliwatts and are completely quiet on speakers I've tried them with that are at 105 dB sensitivity. It is recommended that the amps be driven directly by a DAC like you are doing. They are about to release a much smaller model called the Marashino that has less power output. I don't know the price. Here is its distortion chart at 8 ohms:

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mwillems

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2013, 08:48:06 am »

I have Digital Amp Company's Cherry Mono Plus Amps. They are designed to be very low distortion even at the first milliwatts and are completely quiet on speakers I've tried them with that are at 105 dB sensitivity. It is recommended that the amps be driven directly by a DAC like you are doing. They are about to release a much smaller model called the Marashino that has less power output. I don't know the price. Here is its distortion chart at 8 ohms:



Those look more or less exactly right; it's a little high power, but the specs look incredible.  It looks like the price on the Maraschinos is going to be around 2k a pair, which probably puts them in the "saving for the future" category, but that's getting closer to my price range.  The distortion specs on their amps (both the cherry and the maraschino) are pretty damned impressive.  I'll be keeping an eye on this as it reaches the market.  Thanks Mojave!
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HiFiTubes

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2013, 11:42:42 am »

I am very surprised you buy gear based on the specs.  I only make judgements based on listening to music and couldn't care less what the specs say.  I want an amp/preamp/DAC/speaker/TT that is engaging and highly musical.  I want it to handle those transient attacks with grace and aplomb.  I have listened to MANY set-up with what would be considered "ideal" specs but they didn't move me.

Your room has FAR more effect on noise and sound quality than anything else in your set-up.

Regarding using a digital volume control, don't you think a well designed volume pot in a traditional preamp is the way to go?

-Patrick

Dude, his speakers are 114db/w. Specs matter in this case  ;D
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pcstockton

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2013, 02:04:38 pm »

Well I have heard Zu Druids on the end of Naim amps and they sounded fabulous.  They were 16 ohms @ 101.

Efficiency doesn't mean much without the the load and vice versa.

My speaker are 4ohm but it is an efficient speaker, so it is an "Easy" 4 ohm load.

Anyway.... i will bow out.  This is clearly not a discussion I should be in.

I listen then buy.  Specs are irrelevant (to me).  There is NOTHING like Naim in the hifi world.  Nothing.

-Patrick
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mwillems

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2013, 06:12:52 pm »

Well I have heard Zu Druids on the end of Naim amps and they sounded fabulous.  They were 16 ohms @ 101.

Efficiency doesn't mean much without the the load and vice versa.

My speaker are 4ohm but it is an efficient speaker, so it is an "Easy" 4 ohm load.

Anyway.... i will bow out.  This is clearly not a discussion I should be in.

I listen then buy.  Specs are irrelevant (to me).  There is NOTHING like Naim in the hifi world.  Nothing.

-Patrick

@pcstockton- thanks very much for the data point; my drivers are 16 Ohms as well, so the fact that the amp in question was quiet with a speaker with 101dB sensitivity is very encouraging.  You don't happen to remember which model(s) of Naim you heard with the Zu Druids do you?

Regardless, I certainly meant no offense, and I'll certainly see if I can find a way to demo a Naim model as they've obviously made a great impression on you.
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pcstockton

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2013, 06:19:10 pm »

No offense at all.  I just dont think I have anything to add other than, listen to some Naim!!!

I think it was a 202... but there was a hicap so it might have been a 250.2.

I cant say there was no "hiss" if that is what you mean by "quiet".  I have never heard a speaker without hiss.  Such is life and nothing to be worried about.

-Patrick

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natehansen66

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2013, 10:05:09 am »

mwillems - we seem to have a lot of the same system design goals. What kind of speakers do you have?
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mwillems

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2013, 02:06:11 pm »

mwillems - we seem to have a lot of the same system design goals. What kind of speakers do you have?

They're homemade bi-amped speakers, so I'm not sure how transferable my experience will be, but we may have drivers in common.  

My tweeters are the 16 Ohm version of the BMS 4550 compression drivers mounted on a lightly-modified Altec 511-B horn:  http://bmsspeakers.com/index.php?id=bms_4550

The mid-basses are a two by two array of Peerless 8-inch nomex cone woofers: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=264-1098  

The cabinet's about 11 cubic feet, and is bass reflex, tuned to around 28 Hz.  The crossover is currently an LR 4th order at 860 Hz with phase linearization applied to the crossover filter.  

The amp I'm currently using to drive the horns is the Fiio E9 headphone amp.  There are some excellent measurements of it into 16 Ohm loads over here: http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/05/fiio-e9-headphone-amp.html

If you have a look at his write up you can see that its got ridiculously low distortion and noise, and a fairly high power (over 1 watt at 16 Ohms).  The only hitch is that it has a 10 Ohm output impedance which goofs up it's gain structure into 16 Ohms, kills the electrical damping, and causes weird frequency response anomalies.  The fourth chart down shows what the frequency response variation looked like with one low impedance pair of headphones he tested.  

I've been using the E9 for close to a year now, and it works.  It sounds really, really good (which is surprising given that it's a $90 amp in an off-label use), and has no audible noise of any kind with the inputs muted. I just think I can do better.  That's why my goal is something that measures as well as the E9 in low watt outputs, but has appropriately low output impedance, and just a little more power.  

BTW I demoed a Crown and it was a complete failure.  I think the model I was interacting with was out and out defective. It put out crunching and hissing when hooked to the horns that was loudly audible anywhere in the room with the inputs muted.  So to make sure it wasn't just a case of the horns revealing an otherwise fine noisefloor, I hooked it up to the midbasses instead (which have around a 93dB sensitivity as wired) and it still made disturbingly loud crunching and hissing noises from 4 meters away.  There's no way that unit was functioning as intended (or according to its specs).  

So I'll start investigating the various other options thrown out in the thread, although I'll probably need to start saving my pennies to afford any of them!  As a stop gap I may try another moderately priced headphone amp.  I'll report back if I find anything else that works in this application (or if I learn anything more significant about any of the models everyone was kind enough to suggest up-thread)
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natehansen66

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2013, 04:50:09 pm »

Cool. I've got some 16 ohm 4552 neo drivers on the way for my Synergy/Paraline conicals. I'll be following your amp progress! I'm realistically probably a year or better out before I get serious about new amps. Hopefully you come up with an "affordable" solution.
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pcstockton

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2013, 05:25:15 pm »

why not just DIY the amps as well  ::)
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mwillems

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2013, 05:42:53 pm »

why not just DIY the amps as well  ::)

Don't think I haven't thought about it.  My carpentry skills are light years better than my soldering iron skill though ;-)  Putting together some pre-made electronic modules from Hypex is a little more my speed.  That said, if I find a doable looking DIY project that certainly isn't off the table

Cool. I've got some 16 ohm 4552 neo drivers on the way for my Synergy/Paraline conicals. I'll be following your amp progress! I'm realistically probably a year or better out before I get serious about new amps. Hopefully you come up with an "affordable" solution.

Those 4552s have very similar looking frequency response to the 4550s, but they recommend crossing them over 200Hz higher?  Any idea what that's about?

Regardless, they're very similar drivers, let me know if you want to talk EQ settings once you get them bolted on :-)  I'll post about my amp adventures as they happen.  My suspicion is that I might wind up with another headphone amp and/or a DIY amp at least in the short term. 
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natehansen66

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Re: Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2013, 11:03:43 pm »

I've considered the total DIY route as well...... but AFAIK there aren't any proven designs that do everything that I want, and designing it is way beyond me.

As far as the 4552 goes it's recommended at 1k because it looks like there's a distortion spike on the factory graphs at about 8-900. We will see how it measures. I can tell you that the eq needed for my DIY Paralines will be atrocious regardless of the driver used ::)

What are you using for midrange and bass?
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mwillems

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Re: Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2013, 10:21:02 am »

I've considered the total DIY route as well...... but AFAIK there aren't any proven designs that do everything that I want, and designing it is way beyond me.

As far as the 4552 goes it's recommended at 1k because it looks like there's a distortion spike on the factory graphs at about 8-900. We will see how it measures. I can tell you that the eq needed for my DIY Paralines will be atrocious regardless of the driver used ::)

What are you using for midrange and bass?

My lower end is handled by four peerless nomex cone 8-inch woofers in a two by two array just as close together as we could get them http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=264-1098.  The goal of the array was to create a polar pattern that resembles the horn's polar pattern in the crossover region, and to gain some driver efficiency (they're wired in series and parallel, so they present electrically as a single 8-ohm driver that's about 6dB higher efficiency than the stock woofer).  

A lot of people use a 15-inch driver with 511s, but when we were doing design we couldn't find an affordable 15" that had attractive-looking frequency response up to 800Hz.  The cabinets have a port tuning of 28 Hz, and are lined with acoustic tile and heavily stuffed (I know that's unusual in vented designs, see this Rod Elliot article to see what we were thinking when we did it http://sound.westhost.com/articles/boxstuff.htm).  Bottom line (with appropriate baffle-step dialed in) I get more or less flat bass response to 28 Hz, and I'm only three or four dB down at 20 Hz .   I've got infra-sonics high-passed out for driver protection.  

I use a frankensub for home theater (a cheap commercial sub with the driver replaced), but the peerlesses put out low enough and loud enough for my 2 channel audio listening (and they sound much better than my sub!).

In the amp news front, I demoed another low-priced headphone amp, and was so impressed I immediately picked one up to drive the horns as a stop gap solution until I can save enough for something more serious: NwAvGuy's Objective 2 amplifier (O2) (lots and lots of measurements here  http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/07/o2-headphone-amp.html).  It's critically limited in one key way, but so far it sounds better than almost everything else I've heard (short of the First Watt J-2).

The good: It's a DIY with completely open source design, and companies are building and selling finished O2s for about $150.  The specs are astonishingly good (THD+N in the low thousandths of a percent at 10 milliwatts) , the gain is low (stock gain is adjustable between 2.5x and 6x), and it's smaller than a paperback book.  It's also completely and totally silent into the horns with the inputs muted, and (on the low gain setting) is completely silent even with silence playing.  But there's a big "but"

The Bad: Its maximum rated power into a 15 Ohm load is around 350 mW (but THD+N is still in the low-thousandths of a percent until 300 mW).  The worse news: I think (but am not certain) that that 350 mW rating is not per channel but total power output (because that's the convention in headphone amp ratings).  So realistically, the amp will put out 150 milliwatts a channel of low noise output. [EDIT: additional reading suggests that his 350 mW figure was per channel not aggregate]  He actively current limited the design because it's a headphone amp, and he wanted to offer some protection for folks with very low impedance headphones.  So while it will cheerfully put out 600 milliwatts into 32 Ohms, it's down to 350 by the time you get to 15 Ohms.

This isn't that big of a loss of power for me: I'm was using a 1-watt headphone amp.  Going to a 350 mW headphone amp is a loss of 4.5 dB of overhead in my specific application, and, for me, the better output impedance, better noise specs, and generally better sound are more than worth the loss of overhead and theoretical maximum volume.  My maximum volume in JRiver is set to the point where -20 dB pink noise gives me 83 dB at one meter.  My estimated power consumption at 83 dB at 1 meter is one milliwatt, so a hundred milliwatts should give me the necessary 20 dB of overhead to play any signal that JRiver would be outputting at my maximum volume setting, and 300 milliwatts gives me 4.5 dB of overhead above that.  

I cheerfully admit that I'm cutting things a little fine here (and probably getting some headshakes/eyerolls from the eminently sensible people reading this thread), but the amp sounds amazing, and so far I haven't managed to drive it into clipping (that I could hear).  Bottom line, to quote someone upthread, if my ears are the test, this little amp is passing with flying colors.  It'll certainly do until I can save up a few thousand for something more serious.  I recognize this may not be a good solution for anyone but me, but I thought I should mention it as it's affordable and very low noise (albeit also very low power).

I'll report back later on once I've managed to do some "torture testing" to see what the practical limits are with my set up.
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mwillems

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2013, 11:45:44 am »

So I've been using the O2 to drive my horns (on and off) for a little over a week.  I've tried high volume (for me) listening: music with peaks up to 108 dB (that I managed to measure anyway, some other music when I wasn't actively measuring may have been higher), pink noise up to 103 dB, etc. I haven't done any sine wave testing yet.  I've yet to hear clipping, but I also didn't really push much past where I thought the limits of the amp would be.  I've also yet to hear the hi frequency drivers fall out of alignment with the low frequency (i.e. they don't fall behind in volume scaling).  

I was actually a little surprised to get volume levels like that out of the O2 (my original calculations suggested it should top out completely around 106dB or so). I looked around and found some impedance measurements of my driver model on the horn that I have it mounted on, and realized that the specified impedance of my drivers is pretty different from their actual impedance behavior on the horn that they're loaded on.  The impedance apparently measures much higher than 16 Ohms in many places on the band (never lower than 16, as high as 32 Ohms in places).  Because the O2 is current limited it can actually deliver twice as much power into 32 Ohms as it can into 16, so I'm getting a little extra oomph I wasn't expecting in some parts of the band.

I would occasionally hear a slightly fatiguing sound (not distortion, just a certain over-brightness or harshness) that was probably the output op-amps oscillating due to the unexpected EMF from having to drive a full sized speaker driver with unterminated speaker wire (instead of driving a headphone, which is what the O2 was designed to do).  I say that was likely to be the problem, because the problem was resolved by putting a few Ohms in series (two or three seems to have been enough).  My drivers are mounted on an Altec 511b horn, and the original crossover for the old Altec drivers had close to four Ohms in series with the driver, so a little series impedance may actually be desirable for compression drivers.  When I find a real power amp that's low enough noise for this project, I'll see whether compression drivers *actually* need a little series resistance, or of it's just a matter of needing to protect the output stage on a headphone amp. Regardless, 10 Ohms (which is what I was getting with the E9) was much too much for either theory.

The bottom line: for a short term horn driver solution the O2 sounds pretty great, has enough power for my uses, and has a usefully low output impedance even with the added series resistance.  It sounds more detailed than the E9, although it has a little less maximum power.  It's also a first rate portable headphone amp and sounds incredible on headphones, so I'll have a ready use for it when I find a permanent solution.

Speaking of which, here are my current thoughts on a long term solution: demoing amps is challenging and or expensive for me, and my application is kind of unusual.  I'm currently building a high-powered Hypex amp (280 watts channel) for my midbasses, which should be done in a few weeks.  Once it's complete, I'm going to test it (briefly) on the horns and see if the noise level is low enough.  According to the specs it should be.  If it shakes out, Hypex has a paper on their website describing how to lower the gain on their UcD amps by changing a single resistor (which they show you on a diagram).  I'm not great at circuit building (to say the least), but even I can probably find a resistor on a schematic and replace it.  So if the Hypex modules are low enough noise for my purposes, I'll grab some of the lower power UcDs and mod them so they've only got 3x or 4x gain which should adequately protect the horns (and my ears) from hardware failure.  The extra good news is that the price for the parts for a two-channel low-power (UcD 180) Hypex amp (if you build it yourself) is in the $250 to $600 range (depending on the options you choose and what kind of box you put it in).  

I'm already building the high-power Hypex amp, so it'll be free to try it with the horns when it's done.  If the Hypexs are too noisy, I'll be demoing more of the amps you all so helpfully referenced in the thread.  Thanks everyone for all the feedback, and I'll keep you posted on my findings.
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natehansen66

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2013, 04:44:52 pm »

Thanks for the update and for mentioning the Hypex stuff again....I haven't really given them a look. Way more power than I need, but all the same features as the Class D Audio stuff for quite a bit cheaper (talking the UcD180 here). They also have a UcD32 @ 30 watts/channel that can be expanded to 6 channels on a board with included SMPS. Specs aren't as good its bigger brothers though, and apparently you need to come up with your own input buffer.

It's tough finding decent low power amps....outside of the usual big $$$ audiophile stuff!
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pcstockton

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2013, 06:59:32 pm »

.
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mwillems

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2013, 07:16:43 pm »

How does the music sound though?  That is a lot of talk without a single mention of how the music is presented.... Did it move you?  Emotionally engaging? Toe tapping?  Smiles?  Anything?

 I am assuming, I suppose, that you are listening to music with this gear.

-p

It sounds very good to me (indeed).  I would say that it sounds clearer, more present in the room.  It's a little easier to suspend disbelief and be taken in by the stereo illusion, to forget that there are a pair of speakers making the music.  Linkwitz describes the feeling of hearing really transparent speakers as "hearing through a window" into a room where people are playing the music in question (because stereo can't present complete immersion unless the speakers are on the sides of your head, like headphones).  

I won't say it's exactly like that now, but it's more like that than it used to be. Especially on fairly sparse recordings (solo violin, or solo piano), I could believe (if I closed my eyes) that someone was playing the instrument nearby.  Stereo effects are slightly more localized, which is to say that when a sound is panning from left to right, or alternating between the speakers it sounds more focused in the location that it's "supposed to be" (based on headphone listening).  I've heard this collection of attributes called the "soundstage" of a setup, and I'd say the main differences between the new amp and the old amp are a generally clearer and cleaner tone and a somewhat improved soundstage.  My guess is that the difference is related to better damping and lower output impedance in general, but that's not what you're asking :-)

Big smiles all around.  I was playing some Cole Porter the other night, and the wife paused on her way through the room, listened a bit, and said "that sounds great!" which is not exactly typical (she doesn't often notice small system changes).  I guess I must be doing something right  ;D
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kiwi

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2013, 01:29:31 am »

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HiFiTubes

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2013, 09:10:51 am »

I've heard great things about this impamp but never used or heard myself.

http://www.impamp.com/
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mwillems

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2013, 04:40:12 pm »

I've heard great things about this impamp but never used or heard myself.

http://www.impamp.com/

What about a small 300B style tube amp, like the bottleheads? 
http://www.bottlehead.com/store.php/products/stereomour-stereo-single-ended-2a345-integrated-amplifier-kit

I had looked at the bottleheads, but I was a little concerned about spending that much for what (for me) is a moderately complicated DIY kit (my electronics skills are not the best, the Hypex amps are essentially pre-assembled). 

That Imp amp looks pretty interesting (same price range, but comes assembled), but the noise specs look a little disturbing. Although that's par for the course with tube amps as I understand it, and tube noise isn't as harsh sounding as, say, crossover distortion.   

I'll keep investigating, thanks for the additional suggestions!
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mwillems

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2013, 06:53:05 pm »

"What this country needs is a good 5 watt amplifier" --Paul Klipsch

So I just wanted to report back that I found what, for the foreseeable future, is my low-noise, low-watt amp solution.  I ultimately did go the DIY route and built a stereo amp with a pair of the Hypex UcD180HG modules http://www.hypex.nl/docs/UcD180HG_datasheet.pdf.  As you can see from the datasheet the THD+N at about 10 milliwatts is .015% and just goes down as power scales up from there.  

The stock amps will put out 60 watts into 16 Ohms though, but, as noted above, Hypex put up a paper on how to adjust the actual gain (not just the attenuation) of the amp: http://www.hypex.nl/docs/appnotes/gain_appnote.pdf.  The lowest the amp will go is about 4.5x voltage gain, which can be achieved by removing (and not replacing) a single surface mount resistor on the board.  I asked a friend who was a little handier with a soldering iron than me to help, and it was off the board in about two and a half seconds.  

My sound card/DAC has a maximum output of around 2.15 VRMS at digital fullscale, so that means with that gain structure the Hypex modules now max out at about 5.8 watts, which is just about perfect (that would take the drivers to about 120 dB).  If I ever decide I need more volume, I could switch to a DAC that has a "pro" line output which is significantly hotter (about 8 or 9 VRMS at digital fullscale). Because the amp modules are operating so far below their max current or power ratings, they'll scale right up with the more powerful input signal.  

The amp with nothing attached to it is completely, totally dead quiet even with my ear in the horn.  Unfortunately, because it is more powerful than the amp I was using previously, with my soundcard/DAC connected, the soundcard's noise floor is now clearly audible.  I'm going to rearrange the interior of my PC and see if I can improve the EMI performance.  Even if I can't though, this amp (unsurprisingly) sounds drastically better than my previous amp solution, and I'm very happy with it.  

It sounds clear as a bell and beautiful, and goes much louder than I'm likely to need for the foreseeable future  :-)

If anyone out there has any basic questions about Hypex amp contruction, I'd be happy to discuss.  So far I'm a really happy camper.
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InflatableMouse

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2013, 01:21:27 am »

Congrats on your new amp.

I'm a complete nitwit at this so this is probably a silly question. You mention 60 watts at 16 ohms, how does that amp scale with 4 or 8 ohms speakers? Aren't the high sensitivy speakers you're talking about typically low resistance like 4 ohms? Does that effectively give you like 200-240 watts?
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mwillems

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #40 on: May 15, 2013, 07:46:04 am »

Congrats on your new amp.

I'm a complete nitwit at this so this is probably a silly question. You mention 60 watts at 16 ohms, how does that amp scale with 4 or 8 ohms speakers? Aren't the high sensitivy speakers you're talking about typically low resistance like 4 ohms? Does that effectively give you like 200-240 watts?

My specific high sensitivity driver is a 16 Ohm driver, which is why I used that figure.  The stock amps are rated to put out 120 watts into 8 ohms or 180 watts into 4 ohms.  However, as I modified the modules, they would only put out (at digital full-scale in my setup) about 12 watts into 8 ohms or 24 watts into 4 ohms.
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natehansen66

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Re: Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #41 on: May 16, 2013, 12:05:14 pm »

Thanks for the input! I've been looking at those as well. Do you know if a pot could be wired in place of the resistor to allow variable gain? Is it SE input or balanced? If I remember right an additional input buffer is needed for a balanced signal.
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mwillems

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #42 on: May 16, 2013, 12:15:08 pm »

Thanks for the input! I've been looking at those as well. Do you know if a pot could be wired in place of the resistor to allow variable gain? Is it SE input or balanced? If I remember right an additional input buffer is needed for a balanced signal.

The UCD 180's have an input buffer and a differential input (balanced input) built in.  The resistor that I removed is actually in the buffer stage of the amp (without the resistor, the buffer stage still operates, just at unity gain).  You might have been thinking of the UCD 32 series that do require an added buffer (and are both cheaper and higher noise)?  

All you need for a block amp is a power supply (they sell specially designed switching power supplies), the amp modules, inputs/outputs, connection material, mounting hardware, and a box.  They even include some mounting hardware, and will sell you most of the other I/O and/or wiring you need (although some items are available for cheaper elsewhere).  Pretty much the only needful thing they don't offer are cases.  It isn't clear what hardware is included free and what isn't for some items, so if you're thinking of placing an order, let me know and you can benefit from my trial and error  ;D

I'm not sure whether you could replace the resistor with a pot, but the folks at Hypex are very responsive to these kinds of questions.  I'm not sure why (in principle) you couldn't, the only question would be whether it would compromise noise performance (which it might).  If you need a fixed variation you can also replace the resistor.
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natehansen66

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #43 on: May 16, 2013, 05:19:58 pm »

Thanks for the reply........I was thinking about the ucd32. Good to know about the input buffer, the Hypex keeps looking better. I'm leaning towards an unassembled 4 channel from Class D Audio right now.....amp modules, PSU, case, and all connectors for a good price.

More questions:

They say no turn on/off pop on the Hypex, is that true?

You said you used a pair to make a stereo amp, and from their docs it looks like each board is a single channel. Is that true as well?
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mwillems

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #44 on: May 16, 2013, 08:50:10 pm »

Thanks for the reply........I was thinking about the ucd32. Good to know about the input buffer, the Hypex keeps looking better. I'm leaning towards an unassembled 4 channel from Class D Audio right now.....amp modules, PSU, case, and all connectors for a good price.

More questions:

They say no turn on/off pop on the Hypex, is that true?

You said you used a pair to make a stereo amp, and from their docs it looks like each board is a single channel. Is that true as well?

I can't speak to the UCD 32 as it's kind of a different animal than the 180 and the 400 (very different design and noise specs), but the 180s have no pop of any kind at turn on or off. There's an "amp enable" wire that runs from the power supply to the amp module, that sends a signal to the amp to turn on once the power supply is stabilized, which suppresses the pop.  The first time I hooked it up to the speakers and turned it on, I heard nothing and thought something had gone wrong until my DAC came online and I heard the DAC's noisefloor  ;D   

The UCD 180's are each one channel, but you can use one power supply for both of them to keep costs down (I only used one because I won't be using anything like the amp's rated power). 
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natehansen66

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #45 on: July 30, 2013, 05:13:40 am »

mwillems - are you still happy with your Hypex amps? I think I'm about to order 4x UcD180hg with their smps for my horns. What's included with the modules when you get them?
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mwillems

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #46 on: July 30, 2013, 03:02:02 pm »

mwillems - are you still happy with your Hypex amps? I think I'm about to order 4x UcD180hg with their smps for my horns. What's included with the modules when you get them?

Still very happy with mine.  No problems whatsoever.

The amp modules come with some nice fastons (for the power and output connections), and some screws (for mounting the module).  The module mounting point is the T-shaped heatsink, so a little thermal grease isn't a bad idea.  They sell separately a nice input cable with the appropriate molex header (they call it the "UcD signal cable"), and I would recommend using their cable (unless you're good at wiring molex pins).  It's a nice shielded twisted pair cable and plenty long if you need that.  You'll also need some plain old wire to connect the amp's output tabs to the output binding posts, but almost any old speaker wire will do.  

The SMPSs are rated to run two amp modules, I'm not sure if one will run four (or if that was even your plan).  They probably put out more than enough power for four in a horn application, but there are only two amp enable pins on the power supply, so you might have to rig those up some way (ask hypex, they'll tell you if it's safe/doable).  The SMPS comes with a little bit of hardware (some screws as I recall), but you'll need to order the appropriate cabling set for the specific power supply as well (again, unless you enjoy crimping/soldering molex pins).  The cabling set will have appropriately wired molex headers for all of the io on the smps, but the cabling kit only has enough headers/wires for one amp.  

You'll need to "Y" the output wires so that they run to both amps.  Some people just run the smps output wires to the first amp module, and then crimp a second length of wire into the same faston, and run that second wire "daisy chain" style to the second amp.  That's easy, but not electrically the best idea.  I bought some nice insulation piercing wire taps from McMaster Carr (for about eight bucks) and used those to "Y" the cables right where they leave the SMPS.  Solder and heat shrink tubing would work too.

I'd also recommend ordering (either from Hypex, or from someone else) plastic spacers for the SMPS.  The supply is supposed to have about 6mm of clearance minimum from all conductive surfaces, and the plastic spacers hypex sells are good quality and (more importantly) exactly the right size.  Depending on your implementation you may need one conductive spacer (as an additional ground), but that's optional and the other spacers need to be non-conductive.  I used a single conductive spacer, for what it's worth.  Hypex doesn't sell the conductive ones, but if you decide you want one, I can tell you the size and variety I ordered.

You'll obviously need some other stuff for a complete amp (power inlet, inputs, outputs, aluminum box, etc.), but what I've described above is everything you need to:

1) connect the power inlet to the power supply (in the cabling set)
2) connect the power supply to the amp modules (cabling set, fastons, plus Y junction and additional wire)
3) connect the inputs to the amps ("UcD signal cable" to the amps)
4) connect the amps to the outputs (fastons and any old speaker wire) and
5) connect the Hypex parts to the box (spacers for the SMPS, and screws that shipped with the components).

Once you get everything, take a good long look at their wiring diagrams before you start (some of it is a little counter-intuitive, especially the recommend grounding method). If you want to talk through anything, I'm happy to help and can take some pictures of my rig (or point you to where that gain resistor is).
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natehansen66

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #47 on: July 30, 2013, 05:58:15 pm »

Thanks for the detailed reply! Definitely a few things there I would have overlooked. I've "built" an amp before with modules so I'm familiar with what's all involved. If you could post up some pics I'd really appreciate it.

I've been in contact with Hypex and they say the SMPS400A180 will handle 4 of the UcD180's. I'm thinking I'll pick up one of the bigger SDS amps from Class D Audio for my mid-bass, but that'll go in an enclosure of its own.
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mwillems

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #48 on: July 30, 2013, 07:57:32 pm »

Thanks for the detailed reply! Definitely a few things there I would have overlooked. I've "built" an amp before with modules so I'm familiar with what's all involved. If you could post up some pics I'd really appreciate it.

I've been in contact with Hypex and they say the SMPS400A180 will handle 4 of the UcD180's. I'm thinking I'll pick up one of the bigger SDS amps from Class D Audio for my mid-bass, but that'll go in an enclosure of its own.

I'll try and take some pics this weekend and put them up.
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mwillems

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Re: Low Wattage, Low Noise Amplifiers
« Reply #49 on: August 03, 2013, 12:53:44 pm »

Thanks for the detailed reply! Definitely a few things there I would have overlooked. I've "built" an amp before with modules so I'm familiar with what's all involved. If you could post up some pics I'd really appreciate it.

I've been in contact with Hypex and they say the SMPS400A180 will handle 4 of the UcD180's. I'm thinking I'll pick up one of the bigger SDS amps from Class D Audio for my mid-bass, but that'll go in an enclosure of its own.

Here's a pic of the inside.  It's not exactly beautiful wiring, but it works as expected (I may have mentioned my soldering and aluminum machining skills are not what they could be  ;D , even with some outside help)

My goal was to make the input and output wire-travel as short as possible, which required mounting the left module upside down to get the input and output stages closer to the back of the box.  I'm not sure it was really necessary, but it made me feel better, and as an accidental side effect you can now see what the 180s look like from both top and bottom.  

If you zoom in you can see a fair amount of detail.  If you have any questions about why it's wired the way it is, let me know (I mostly followed the Hypex instructions, but there are a few things I did a little differently).
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