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[ThierryNK]

ISOS SACD can be "read" (locally decoded).

DFF and DSF files can be streamed in DSD

ISO SACD can be streamed with wav conversion

But ISO SACD still cannot be UPNP streamed in native DSD.

With the 3 first functions working, the last one is a bug that i reported in March.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=78923.msg535797#msg535797

No correction because I explain it badly, or for another reason? Did I miss something?

I also bought a Mac JRiver license, same issue.

Best and kind regards

[mrboonmee]

So I have to make make .iso images of my SACDs to play them in MC18? I use MC17, most likely same thing? Would be nice to be able to play them DSD to PCM?

[Matt]

SACD bitstreaming using DoPE is working here.

Double-check that you have DoPE enabled on the server machine under Options > Media Network > Add of configure DLNA servers > Advanced > Bitstream DSD

[ThierryNK]

It works here too.
With DoP "INDIVIDUAL TRACK FILES".

But not from SACD ISO.

Take a SACD ISO. Import it in JRiver Library. Now you can stream it with wave transcoding, but not in native DSD mode.
As JRiver can stream DSF, DFF and DoP FILES, and is also able to stream PCM from SACD ISO, it should be straightforward to have it stream DSD from SACD ISO.

When JRiver streams PCM from SACD ISO, JRiver has at some point extracted the DSF files from the ISO, and then convert them into PCM. The only needed thing is not to do the PCM conversion when you want DSD streaming from an ISO.

Extract DSF from ISO -- convert to PCM -- stream

needs the option:

Extract DSF from ISO -- convert to PCM -- stream

Kind regards.

[Matt]

I was just able to bitstream DoPE from a SACD ISO.

I used MC as the renderer and had it connected to a Mytek.  It went into DSD mode and sounded great.

Please make sure you have MC 18.0.194 (or newer) installed on both sides.

[ThierryNK]

Can you make the difference between JRiver used as a UPNP server that streams TRACK FILES (Flac, Wave, AIF, DFF, DSF, DoP) through Ethernet to a Network player which includes both a decoder and a DAC,  and JRiver used as DECODER that sends a DECODED AUDIO FLUX (PCM, DSD) through USB to a DAC?

Track - decode - audio flux transport - DAC - Preamplifier - power amplifier - speakers

A network player contains everything from decode to DAC and the only thing asked to a UPNP server is to send the tracks though Ethernet. No audio functions involved here, only "files" functions (extract from ISO, convert to wave or not, stream).

[Matt]

I'm trying to help.  You're not making it easy on me.

I'm not aware of any device that supports SACD ISO natively, which is why you need to use DoPE.

So you need to enable DoPE (read above for the location in options).  Your DLNA renderer must also support DoPE. 

You can use MC18 as a DLNA renderer to test (which is what I did above), since it nicely supports DoPE and most other formats over DLNA.  This has no relationship to USB audio output.

[ThierryNK]

I have 2 licenses of JRiver, one on PC, one on Mac. I am a big fan of JRiver and I promoted it here on a French Audio Forum: http://www.forum-audiophile.fr/musique-demat/lecteurs-reseau-pourquoi-je-suis-passe-a-jriver-jremote-t37265.html#p372675

And here on my blog: http://hifiatubes2musiquedematerialisee.unblog.fr/2013/02/10/recommandations-generales-pour-lecteurs-reseau/

I am sincerely sorry to have hurt you, but please may consider that, perhaps, what I am writing is not fully wrong.

I never talked of streaming ISO. That would be crazy, you are right.

The following functions work perfectly on JRiver:
- import an ISO in library
- UPNP streaming individual tracks extracted from the ISO, but with Wave conversion.

The only thing that I wish (and all other owners of DSD capable network player) is to UPNP stream individual tracks extracted from the ISO, without Wave conversion, in DSF or DoP tracks.

The chain below works on JRiver
Import ISO - extract DSF files -  convert to Wave - UPNP Stream.

My only wish is to suppress the conversion part when you want to UPNP stream DSD.

As this only a part of the treatment that has to be removed for UPNP DSD streaming from an ISO, I am pretty sure that it is only a bug somewhere.

In JRiver itself and on JRemote, you can see the individual tracks from the ISO.
If you activate wave conversion, UPNP streaming works very well for the ISO tracks
If you do not activate wave conversion, you can still stream, but some unreadable tracks are sent.

For information, everything that I am trying to explain works perfectly on Foobar. But JRiver is better on every other aspect.

Best and kind regards.

[Matt]

The only thing that I wish (and all other owners of DSD capable network player) is to UPNP stream individual tracks extracted from the ISO, without Wave conversion, in DSF or DoP tracks.

This is called DoPE (DoP over ethernet) and is supported by JRiver.

You just need to turn it on in Media Network options for the server:
Options > Media Network > Add of configure DLNA servers > Advanced > Bitstream DSD

This packages any 1x DSD as a DoP stream (which will appear like a 176.4kHz WAV file to the renderer, but container DoP markers so it plays as DSD).  It's a bit-perfect copy of the DSD bits.  Obviously the renderer will need to understand DoP (or DoPE if you prefer), but many should.

[ThierryNK]

Thanks for your help, Matt.

Here are the results of my investigations. Everything concerns only UPNP streaming (on a Lumin network player).

- DSF, DFF files: OK
- DoP files in Flac containers that I make myself from SACD ISO: OK
- SACD ISO from JRiver Library, with PCM 24/176 conversion activated: OK
- SACD ISO from JRiver Library, without PCM conversion, and without DoPE enabled: no sound and the network player moves from one track to the following after some seconds
- SACD ISO from JRiver Library, without PCM conversion, with DoPE enabled: only a white noise sound is listened, the network player freezes when you try "next track". On Mac, it leads to a general JRiver crash.

From the last point, perhaps there may be some inconsistency between the DoP marker used by JRiver and the one used by Lumin. I will check with Lumin, they are very fast to answer this kind of questions and eventually update their firmware. I already know they are updating their DoP marker implementation.

From my own perspective, streaming DSD from SACD ISO in DSF format in place of DoP format would have be, maybe, more robust, as DSD capable network players all accept DSF files, but not all DoP files.

Thanks for your patience.
Best and kind regards.

[Matt]

For now, DoPE is the only option.  If Lumin has questions or needs help getting DoPE going, we'd be happy to try to help.

On-the-fly conversion to DSF could be an interesting option, but it's not currently possible.

[ThierryNK]

Everything works now, it was effectively a question of DoP marker.
Thanks a lot for your patience, your listening and your software.

Best and kind regards