Topic: Is Federal Listening Justified? (Read 3822 times)

JimH · « **on:** June 11, 2013, 08:48:30 am »

Edward Snowden, former CIA contractor, made the Federal government's monitoring of all Verizon customers (and probably most others) public knowledge. The Feds will now try to find him and punish him for this act.

Should the government be doing this?

InflatableMouse · « **Reply #1 on:** June 11, 2013, 10:02:56 am »

No. I cincerely hope he makes it to whereever he is safe so he can live his life in peace.

We need more people like him.

This event showed how deceitful our own government is. When news leaked about Prism our government denied involvement and knowledge about it and they publicly condemned it demanding an explanation from the US. The next day, information leaked that our own intelligence agency regularly receives information from Prism. Yawn.

syn-ack · « **Reply #2 on:** June 11, 2013, 12:18:49 pm »

Anyone who didn't expect the government to be partaking in such activities, has been fooling themselves.

That said, no two ways about it. It is unconstitutional and unjustified.

InflatableMouse · « **Reply #3 on:** June 11, 2013, 02:21:47 pm »

Quote from: syn-ack on June 11, 2013, 12:18:49 pm

Anyone who didn't expect the government to be partaking in such activities, has been fooling themselves.

I think the question is at what level people expected the government to engage in such activities.

syn-ack · « **Reply #4 on:** June 11, 2013, 02:53:12 pm »

Again, I think people are fooling themselves if they think there are any limits. There are not. What you see released by these so called whistleblowers are more than likely only the tip of the iceberg. I have no doubt that 'surveillance' and 'intelligence gathering' goes far beyond anything you will ever hear any whistleblower reveal.

I'd not be surprised if the government had heat signature profiles on everyone in the country, perhaps the world, and were able to track them by satellites 24x7x365.

jmschnur · « **Reply #5 on:** June 11, 2013, 03:15:54 pm »

Remember it is the entire industrial complex that is looking . If that bothers you best get a cave and disconnect everything from all grids.

KingSparta · « **Reply #6 on:** June 11, 2013, 04:46:23 pm »

It has been interesting listening to things that has been recently exposed with the Obama New World Order.

I think they over stepped, but look who is in office, more than 51% of the country blindly elected him.

saying this I guess I will be added to some sort of Obama list.

What's For Dinner?: tonight is sliced dried beef, and potatoes in a béchamel cheese sauce.

Sue said Obama is the Antichrist.

mojave · « **Reply #7 on:** June 11, 2013, 04:55:32 pm »

I wonder what software they are using to listen: A New JRiver Customer Purchases 10,500 licenses? They probably just had to use something like File > Open URL > live://Verizon.

Daydream · « **Reply #8 on:** June 11, 2013, 07:39:14 pm »

In this piece from about a year ago it's interesting to see the director of NSA denying 14 times that the agency can do... exactly what they've been doing.

Best wishes to Snowden to reach a safe haven.

The net is vast and infinite. The Ghosts living in it will fight to defend it.

astromo · « **Reply #9 on:** June 11, 2013, 10:33:33 pm »

Not my country, so not my place to throw stones from the glass house down under.

When I read about this latest piece of whistleblowing (timely given the court case involving Bradley Manning), it prompted me to think of US history and the role of this man:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Edgar_Hoover#Investigation_of_subversion_and_radicals

In Australia, we had a zealous equivalent during the same period:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Spry
who managed the Petrov affair and apparently used some questionable tactics during his career:
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/guide/abc1/201011/programs/DO0947H001D2010-11-04T212500.htm

The point I'd like to draw is that in both cases, these individuals played a role that reflected the environment and fears of their time. With hindsight and the benefit of "Freedom of Information" supported by expiry of confidentiality restrictions, the public has been able to view the extent of zealotry and some would argue, paranoia, of the past.

All countries have a right to protect their security but the revelations of Edward Snowden apprise me that not a lot appears to have changed over time. Unless you're in a position that's at the cutting edge (like Snowden), your main avenue to have your voice heard is at election time. Hopefully, time doesn't dull the memory of outrage into apathy.

An Australian Politician came out with a relevant philosophy back in the 80s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Democrats#1980.E2.80.9382
that became the unofficial slogan for a "minor" party that ended up holding the balance of power in the federal house of review for over two decades.

If Ed Snowden has provided one way for the US to keep them honest, then he's done the country some service. If not, then the judicial process will determine whether he's over stepped the line. If the efforts of Dan Ellsberg are any guide:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ellsberg#The_Pentagon_Papers
then I'd say justice has a fair chance of being done.

Watching and listening to this one with interest. Fortunately in the meantime, I've got a neat piece of media management software to keep me amused.

kstuart · « **Reply #10 on:** June 11, 2013, 10:58:06 pm »

It's interesting that there has been an excellent TV show about this for two years called "Person of Interest" (by the filmmaker of Memento).

InflatableMouse · « **Reply #11 on:** June 12, 2013, 03:16:38 am »

We need whistle-blowers.

JimH · « **Reply #12 on:** June 12, 2013, 08:49:34 am »

Here's a CBS News poll on the subject.

JimH · « **Reply #13 on:** June 12, 2013, 06:27:35 pm »

A Reuters poll finds that more people think he is a patriot than that he is a traitor.

InflatableMouse · « **Reply #14 on:** June 13, 2013, 02:01:10 am »

Quote

A petition urging President Barack Obama to pardon Snowden for any crimes he may have committed has collected 63,000 signatures on the White House website since it was posted by a reader on Sunday. The White House reviews and responds to any petition that gathers more than 100,000 signatures.

I asume you folks all signed it?

Sorry, source didn't give a link and I'm lazy.

syn-ack · « **Reply #15 on:** June 13, 2013, 08:20:08 am »

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD

<°)))))>< · « **Reply #16 on:** July 04, 2013, 06:19:10 am »

Are the hotel rooms bugged?
No, definitely not.
OK, and how do I order breakfast?
Simply speak to the flowers.

Peter_RN · « **Reply #17 on:** July 05, 2013, 06:56:16 am »

Who was it that said "Show me a government that doesn't trust its people, and I'll show you a government that can't be trusted"; wish I could remember.

Whoever it was, this is a glaring example of the truth of the statement. The chaps courage should be celebrated by all freedom loving people, what the authorities are really upset about is that they have been found out. Who watches the watchers?

If these activities are the price of the often spouted "we have to do it to keep you safe" brigade then frankly I would rather be a little less safe; assuming you buy their argument in the first place.

The ever increasing surveillance by the shadowy figures of the state who consider themselves to be beyond the rule of law is a far bigger problem than any threat we face from terrorists, who have actually in many respects already won in my view.

Ok, I am not a US citizen and I don't live in the US either. I am however supposedly living in a country which is a close ally and friend of the US, and have also therefore been the subject of these nefarious activities - supported by my own government I am certain.

KingSparta · « **Reply #18 on:** July 06, 2013, 07:54:28 pm »

I searched did not find that but did find this one.

“Never trust a government that doesn't trust its own citizens with guns. ” ~ Benjamin Franklin

INTERACT FORUM

Poll

Does the U.S. Federal government have the right to listen to all conversations?

Author Topic: Is Federal Listening Justified? (Read 3822 times)