Topic: Stereo and headphones at once (or, talking Dad into being an advanced MC user) (Read 12878 times)

Matt · « **on:** June 27, 2013, 08:32:27 pm »

My Dad doesn't hear as well as he used to. I think it's probably from us kids screaming all those years.

My Mom has bat ears. She hears everything. She never let us turn the home theater up. This might be why I like loud stereos so much today.

Because of this imbalance, my Dad is trying to figure out how to wear headphones while my mom uses the receiver when they watch a movie.

Because I'm a glutton for punishment, I said "Hey, switch to analog output and feed it all with Media Center. I'll help get it going."

Now he has my old X-Fi card and has a pile of cables on order.

I'm still brainstorming about how to best configure it, but I think it should be as easy as routing the first six channels of the X-Fi to his receiver and then using the remaining two channels for a headphone amplifier. Parametric Equalizer should provide the tools to build the headphone mix (and even correct frequencies for his hearing loss).

I'll report my progress as we go. Often screwball projects like this help turn up little tweaks, simplifications, etc. for MC.

MrC · « **Reply #1 on:** June 27, 2013, 09:53:37 pm »

Matt's flunkies testing new MC amplification prototypes for his dad:

6233638 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 28, 2013, 01:15:28 am »

Simple option for Dads:

Step 1: Buy this, or equivalent within your budget.

Solves a number of issues:
1. It's wireless, so you don't even have to think about cables or amplifiers - just plug it into a stereo line-out. (easiest to just be the back of the TV in most cases)
2. Volume control is on the headphones themselves, independent from the TV.
3. It has an integrated charging stand so you don't have to think about batteries or plugging it in when you're done listening.
4. Nothing to go wrong. This is important.

Maybe your dad is different from mine though. He just wants something that is convenient which can go as loud as he needs.

paul1970 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 28, 2013, 02:21:09 am »

+1 I've bought two sets similar to this for my Dad and he's very happy with them. He uses them while he's gardening too.

Matt · « **Reply #4 on:** June 28, 2013, 02:28:06 pm »

Quote from: 6233638 on June 28, 2013, 01:15:28 am

Maybe your dad is different from mine though. He just wants something that is convenient which can go as loud as he needs.

In this case, the trick is that my mom wants to use the 5.1 system and my dad wants headphones playing at the same time.

Most receivers, including his, won't do headphones and 5.1 at once.

So down the rabbit hole we go.

jmone · « **Reply #5 on:** June 30, 2013, 12:42:20 am »

Had the same thing with my parents (but other way around). We also did the wireless headphone thing but plugged it into the TV's Audio Out (not headphone) connection. The headphones have their own Vol Adjustment so the levels are independent. Most AV receivers should have an Analog Audio Output and since you are feeding the AVR with decoded audio you should be fine.

Edit: PS - With us we had to add a small DAC as the audio output from the TV was Optical only.

J-a-k-e · « **Reply #6 on:** July 14, 2013, 05:12:14 pm »

If your X-FI card is anything like my Xonar DX card, you may find that the front channel opamp is fine for headphone amplification while the rear back and side channels are line level only. I discovered from personal experience some time ago that line level out sounds 'really' bad and tinny with no bass via headphones (so much for my plan at the time to use the rear channel output as my headphone zone)

Matt · « **Reply #7 on:** July 15, 2013, 08:12:23 pm »

I've made a little progress on this. We got 5.1 to the receiver with the extra two channels playing to headphones. We also got things calibrated with Room Correction for the 5.1 system and applied some frequency correction to the headphone output for his hearing loss.

We tested using closed-ear wireless phones that have their own amplifier / volume. It works well.

However, I recommended switching to an open-ear headphone to allow the 5.1 to mix nicely with the headphones. I also recommended switching to a wired connection to remove the small lag from the wireless (which makes it sound like it echos) and remove any chance of signal degradation.

Does anyone have a recommendation for a value headphone amplifier for a purpose like this? Preferably it would be A/C powered and have a volume knob. I'm asking for value advice because my dad, like all good dads, is a bit cheap. He used to ration ice cubes to save energy.

mojave · « **Reply #8 on:** July 15, 2013, 10:45:18 pm »

There is a headphone meet in Minneapolis on July 20. Maybe you could find something there.

Quote from: Matt on July 15, 2013, 08:12:23 pm

He used to ration ice cubes to save energy.

How did that help? The ice was packed in sawdust.

Matt · « **Reply #9 on:** July 21, 2013, 08:48:10 am »

A little bump because I'm still looking for advice on a budget headphone amplifier for this project.

The Schiit Magni for $100 is the best match we've found so far:
http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=13

6233638 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 21, 2013, 12:15:01 pm »

I'm sorry, I thought I had posted a reply to this. What's your budget, and what features are you looking for in an amp?

The Schiit Magni certainly seems to be the best "bargain" desktop amp out there right now.

syndromeofadown · « **Reply #11 on:** July 21, 2013, 11:50:22 pm »

Idea for an amp:

FiiO MONT BLANC-E12
http://www.fiio.com.cn/products/index.aspx?ID=100000038732625&MenuID=105026001
Its a portable amp but i believe it can run while charging.

There is cheaper FiiO Kilimanjaro-E11 but I believe it cannot be used while charging.
http://www.fiio.com.cn/products/index.aspx?ID=100000038781911&MenuID=105026001

jmone · « **Reply #12 on:** July 22, 2013, 12:14:45 am »

Why not the little FiiO - http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-E6-Portable-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B005HJWWW8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374469791&sr=8-1&keywords=headphone+amp

Here is the review http://anythingbutipod.com/2011/10/fiio-e6-portable-headphone-amp-review/

Cheap ($27.86), has vol control (buttons not knows) and apparently it will work while plugged into a usb charger.

mojave · « **Reply #13 on:** July 22, 2013, 09:33:42 am »

Why not the cheapest Fii0? http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=230-108

It is only $8.99!

I like buying stuff at Parts Express and they have a lot of selection for headphone amps. They even have a tube amp that looks cool for $69.80.

Matt · « **Reply #14 on:** July 23, 2013, 10:35:31 pm »

Thanks for all the tips guys.

My dad ended up ordering the Schiit Magni. The A/C power and volume knob are nice. Plus, it gave me an excuse to write and talk to Schiit on behalf of JRiver. They seem like nice guys.

Next up will be headphones. I'd like to recommended Sennheiser HD600/650, but I'm pretty sure the price would kill him.

So we may go with the headphones mojave recommended:

6233638 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 23, 2013, 10:53:48 pm »

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelitys-wall-fame

Probably a good place to start, as it has recommendations for most headphone types and price brackets.

astromo · « **Reply #16 on:** July 24, 2013, 01:54:21 am »

Quote from: 6233638 on July 23, 2013, 10:53:48 pm

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelitys-wall-fame

Probably a good place to start, as it has recommendations for most headphone types and price brackets.

Agree. A very useful reference point for this sort of audio fun. Used it myself and found the advice worthwhile.

Matt · « **Reply #17 on:** November 05, 2013, 04:32:43 pm »

I wanted to follow-up on this, because my Dad has been really thrilled with the results.

The hardware we ended up using:
Creative X-Fi 8 channel sound card (connected analog to his receiver for 5.1, and to a headphone amplifer for the other two channels)
Schiit Magni headphone amplifier
Sennheiser HD 598 headphones

We did some frequency correction in MC for his hearing loss, and a center-heavy mix to emphasize the dialog.

Since the 5.1 and headphones share the same DAC, the timing is perfect between the regular speakers and headphones. The wireless headphones he had been using previously had an annoying delay.

The open-ear headphones are nice, because they make it easy to talk to someone while wearing them. They also allow the regular 5.1 speakers to blend nicely into the headphone signal.

My dad keeps telling me we should figure out how to market this because he thinks all his buddies would love it too. I think requiring a computer makes this somewhat unrealistic, but I agree with him that it's pretty neat the things you can do with computers.

csimon · « **Reply #18 on:** November 06, 2013, 07:13:50 am »

That's interesting, I like hearing about these solutions!

Can you clarify one thing as it puzzled me for a long time - it's the question of synching two outputs:

"Since the 5.1 and headphones share the same DAC, the timing is perfect between the regular speakers and headphones. "

How have you achieved this? By using the parametric equaliser to copy L & R to channels 7 & 8, or by setting up 2 zones and then linking them, or some other method?

syndromeofadown · « **Reply #19 on:** November 06, 2013, 11:55:40 pm »

Quote

How have you achieved this?

It can be configured in the 'creative control panel'. Its the software for the creative soundcard.

Here are some screenshots of the control panel in an unrelated post
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=77753.msg528209#msg528209

csimon · « **Reply #20 on:** November 08, 2013, 08:38:54 am »

The pictures don't actually tell me how it's done! Does the control panel have facilities equivalent to the DSP Studio in MC then, where you can copy channels to other channels or does it allow you to, on receipt of a mutlichannels signal, output 5.1 on 6 of the channels and stereo on the other 2? And is this how Matt did it?

mojave · « **Reply #21 on:** November 08, 2013, 08:42:47 am »

I'm pretty sure Matt is only using JRiver and copying the L & R to the channels 7 & 8 using Mix Channels in the PEQ.

Matt · « **Reply #22 on:** November 08, 2013, 09:05:53 am »

Like mojave said, it's actually pretty simple. The sound card (DAC) can output 8 channels at the same time. 6 go into the receiver and 2 go into the headphone amplifier.

I configure MC to '5.1 in a 7.1 container' in DSP Studio > Output Format. This fills channels 1-6 with normal 5.1 sound.

Then, I use Parametric Equalizer to build channels 7 and 8 for the headphones. I think the rules were sort of like this for the left channel (and mirrored for the right channel):
Copy L to RL (-6 dB)
Add C to RL (-3 dB)
High-shelf filter RL

RL and RR are the names of channels 7 and 8 (technically they're channels 5 and 6 due to how channels are ordered, but this doesn't really matter).

csimon · « **Reply #23 on:** November 08, 2013, 09:12:47 am »

Brilliant, thank you!

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Author Topic: Stereo and headphones at once (or, talking Dad into being an advanced MC user) (Read 12878 times)