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[jmone]

So what are the Pros and Cons for upgrading a dedicated HTPC to Windows 8 running MC TheaterView full time?  In particular, are there any issues with:
- RO HQ (madVR / Lav)
- AnyDVD HD
- Video / Audio output over HDMI
- MC's Auto Refresh rate changer for 24/50/60hz
- Things that make TheaterView lose focus (eg the RC will not work till you bring TheaterView to the front)

Thanks
Nathan

Edit - I ran the Win8 Upgrade Assistant on the HTPC and there was nothing bad reported.

[Hendrik]

There are quite some confusing issues with refresh rate changing, madshi tried to work around them in madVR but even with the work arounds there are still cases that just don't work right.
And MC didn't even try to work around it yet The end result is that i believe you cannot switch to 23.976 but instead always go to 24.000, or was it the other way around? I forget.

Personally, i see no pros at this time.

[jmone]

I switch to 24hz anyway (23.976 is just a bad NTSC hack IMO) and use videoclock.  Given I can re-image from my WHS I'm thinking a glass of wine or 2 and give it a go anyway   .  The upside for me is that it may remove my daily crashing issue. 

[jmone]

Mmmm from 6233638 guide....

4. Windows 8 changed something with how refresh rate switching is handled, so now most applications are changing to 23/59Hz when they request to switch to 24/60Hz.
This is usually not a major issue, as most displays have enough flexibility to support both, but has proven to be for at least one user whose display only accepts 24Hz, which meant that Media Center was stuck outputting 60Hz instead.
Madshi has found a solution for this, so madVR's switcher does change to 24/60Hz correctly, rather than switching to 23/59Hz on Windows 8

It would give me something not nag JR on anyway (instead of intercoms)!

[dean70]

There are quite some confusing issues with refresh rate changing, madshi tried to work around them in madVR but even with the work arounds there are still cases that just don't work right.
And MC didn't even try to work around it yet The end result is that i believe you cannot switch to 23.976 but instead always go to 24.000, or was it the other way around? I forget.

Personally, i see no pros at this time.

Is it the same for Server 2012?

[jmone]

So far so good.  I'm going through the endless Windows Update cycle to get all the latest bits but it all seems to work.... including the display rate switching.  It even kept the dtsdecoderdll in the SysWow64 folder!

Edit - I should say I have the display rate switching set in both MC (to switch prior to playback) and also in madVR incase the MC stuff needs to be changed for anything "special" once playback starts

[jmone]

One Q - should I install a separate Virus Checker or is Windows OK out of the box these days (this PC does not need stuff like e-mail scanning and I rarely use IE to hit dodgy websites - really only use it to get drivers etc).  I had Trend Micro on this before but would prefer to load more bloat if I don't have to.

[Micromecca]

Windows Defender is a bit different in Windows 8, think of it as a combination of what was Windows Defender & Windows Security Essentials in Windows 7, if you are a careful vigilant user I would say that you will be fine.

[6233638]

Personally, i see no pros at this time.

I like Windows 8 on the desktop more than Windows 7, and it seems like Windows 8.1 will further improve upon this. I don't know that there's much there for HTPCs though.

Mmmm from 6233638 guide....
It would give me something not nag JR on anyway (instead of intercoms)!

It's working correctly in windowed mode now, but there are still issues in fullscreen exclusive mode on AMD/Nvidia cards.

One Q - should I install a separate Virus Checker or is Windows OK out of the box these days (this PC does not need stuff like e-mail scanning and I rarely use IE to hit dodgy websites - really only use it to get drivers etc).

There shouldn't be any need in Windows 8, as Microsoft Security Essentials was integrated into Windows Defender.

[InflatableMouse]

One Q - should I install a separate Virus Checker or is Windows OK out of the box these days (this PC does not need stuff like e-mail scanning and I rarely use IE to hit dodgy websites - really only use it to get drivers etc).  I had Trend Micro on this before but would prefer to load more bloat if I don't have to.

I'm a careful user. I've had my share of viruses in the past (mostly before the internet era believe it or not) and I have seen what havoc they can wreck on my own and other peoples' systems. I've cleaned up partition tables manually with hex disk editors because there were no programs to do it for you (funny fact I found out the hard way: redoing MBR and deleting partitions with FDISK and formatting a drive doesn't remove a virus from the partitition table ). Today I have adblockers, scriptblockers and I do not browse websites typically known for spreading malware and the likes. In my entire life with computers, I can count the viruses/malware/whatever I had on 1 hand with spare fingers to wiggle.

Yet, a few months ago I got a bitcoin miner - I lost a finger to wiggle. The ONE TIME I NEEDED MSE, it forsake me. The program is utterly useless. It has never warned me for a real thread, but it continues to annoy, block and warn me about useful and safe programs with which it has no business, like uvnc setup! It doesn't warn me when its installed and running, but a passive setupfile on disk is a problem? I seriously have a problem with companies (a lot of antivirus programs do this) that block or even delete programs on my pc that have no virus, malware or trojan and are completely safe to use (but are questionable to them - like uvnc or a keygen) - who the f** are they to just delete something from my pc that poses no threat at all!?

There must be better programs out there, but with each of them, I seem to have a problem and they tend to give more trouble then they save me.

Yet, I still believe running without AV is not a very smart idea so take your pick from the choices available, they are all bad if you ask me. MSE does seem to be the least intrusive of all. Just don't pay for it that's all I have to say about it.

[jmone]

It survived the night without crashing but I've got to tweak the Sleep, wake from sleep and Screen Off behaviour.

FYI on the display rate - I prefer Windows Overlay.  No probs with modes changes and the display switching seems to be OK in Win8.  You just need a GPU to handle this mode well.

[jmone]

Still going strong!  One benefit is that as it boots into Metro first then loads MC in Theaterview I no longer get the issue where the NW is not available be the time MC tries to load the library from the server.  I've not found any downside (yet)!

[glynor]

I've been very happy with Win8 on my HTPC.

[InflatableMouse]

I kinda hate to say it but I'm actually quite happy with Win8 on both the HTPC and my own PC.

I still dislike the start page (which I avoid entirely) and some other annoyances. I've settled on Start 8 from Stardock (5 dollars for a multi pc license is a steal). I'm also using Display Fusion to adjust the 2nd taskbar and create nice thin borders (whoever came up with that at MS needs to be fired).

There were also a couple of more annoyances, like the block to copy files from a network path to a protected OS folder. I've already disabled the zone security checks and the annoying open file security warning so that is one of the last ones I need to create a script for to deploy whenever I reinstall. Also it feels more receptive to busy background processes, I think Windows 7 was maybe a bit better in managing foreground and background priorities than Windows 8 is, I might be imagining it I don't know.

With each new version though, the amount of work involved to get it the way I like it gets bigger and bigger.

Overall its at least as stable and snappy as Windows 7 was, so yeah ... not bad at all .

[6233638]

Yet, a few months ago I got a bitcoin miner - I lost a finger to wiggle. The ONE TIME I NEEDED MSE, it forsake me. The program is utterly useless.

There were also a couple of more annoyances, like the block to copy files from a network path to a protected OS folder. I've already disabled the zone security checks and the annoying open file security warning so that is one of the last ones I need to create a script for to deploy whenever I reinstall.

If you have UAC disabled, you are really compromising security on your system - which can lead to things like you saw above.

I think Windows 7 was maybe a bit better in managing foreground and background priorities than Windows 8 is, I might be imagining it I don't know.

I found the opposite to be true on my system - Windows 8 seems much better at preventing rogue background processes from impacting system performance, and I have also found Windows 8 to be significantly better at managing CPU power saving states.
There were many tasks in Windows 7 which did not set my CPU to run at 100%, even though they would have benefited from it. Windows 8 seems much better at dropping down to a low CPU speed when it's not needed, and a high CPU speed when it matters.

With each new version though, the amount of work involved to get it the way I like it gets bigger and bigger.

Well if you aren't flexible to change, but continue to upgrade your operating system, that's likely to keep getting worse for you.

[InflatableMouse]

If you have UAC disabled, you are really compromising security on your system - which can lead to things like you saw above.

I appreciate your concern, but I really don't need an OS to babysit me while I'm behind my PC. I have ran without any protection on my systems for years in the past, without getting an infection one way or another. I know because I did run scanners every once in a while, AV scanners, malware/spyware scanners, rootkit scanners. Just not real time protection.

The bitcoin miner happened when I downloaded something that shouldn't have an executable. I wanted to delete it and pressed DEL-ENTER, except that it didn't pick up the DEL key, so I accidently ran it (and it didn't trigger UAC). The process died almost immediately and I started checking things out. I didn't find anything at first but then I heard my videocard fans spin up and go back down again. I opened GPU-Z to monitor GPU usage, and saw it was at like 30%, so fans wouldn't jump on continually but enough for me to notice. This thing usually comes with a rootkit that brings it all back but that was probably the process that died; it was supposed to hide itself in intel sata drivers.

Now that wouldn't have happened if hadn't ran those scripts to disable zone security and open file security warnings. But here's the thing: it took me maybe 10 or 20 minutes to clean my system but those warnings and dialog boxes annoy me dozens of times a day year after year. To me that annoyance is infinitely more bigger than the 10 minutes of work I had cleaning my system - which was actually fun for a change - chasing and undoing something someone intended to be stealthy and all - sad I know.

Security starts with the user. Software is complementary.

Well if you aren't flexible to change, but continue to upgrade your operating system, that's likely to keep getting worse for you.

Probably, but not because I'm not flexible - On the contrary. I welcome changes that are actual improvements and I'll happily and eagerly learn and work with them. What I have a problem with are things that don't change for the good; things that annoy me more than they help me are among those things. Stuff that hurt usability like the new start page that doesn't allow me to multitask properly. It's actually that that is not flexible, not me.

[raym]

Still going strong!  One benefit is that as it boots into Metro first then loads MC in Theaterview I no longer get the issue where the NW is not available be the time MC tries to load the library from the server.  I've not found any downside (yet)!

I'm thinking about the switch. I used Win8 on my dad's new laptop for about a week. Hated it at first but then got used to it (didn't love it).

It seems to me though that the Metro interface should lend itself well to HTPC/remote control users. Those big tiles are hard to miss and should be easy to navigate using just arrows/Enter. Is this what you've found?

Also, I kind of like the idea of no start bar/menu for the HTPC. Despite my best efforts, it still pops up from time to time in Win7 and steals focus away from MC. Will this problem go away in Win8?

Cheers.

[jmone]

I've had no probs with the focus stealing I was getting with Win7.  That said, MC runs as a normal not metro app so it is over the normal desktop.  I have MC Set to run at startup so you do see the Metro IF during boot then after about 5 sec MC then runs.  I have to say it has solved a few bugs for me:
- Odd crashing on some overnight network event
- No loss of focus
- Does not run so quickly at the start the NW connection is not available and you get the MC can not load library diag
- Windows Sleep Mode works

It all seems just a bit more polished and reliable as a CE replacement than the experience under Win7.  Then again - I guess each generation gets a bit more refined.

YMMV but I'm not going back!

[glynor]

Will this problem go away in Win8?

Sort-of...

Unfortunately, Metro itself can steal focus away sometimes if you aren't careful (or don't know how it works).  The biggest problem is Theater View.  If I'm running Theater View (which is a fullscreen, exclusive, desktop application) and then I switch to the Start Screen with my remote:  To get "back" to Theater View, you must choose MC itself from the Start Screen.  If you choose Desktop, it switches back and it looks like Theater View is active, but actually the Desktop has the focus (you just can't see it because Theater View is "over top").

There's a few other cases like this where it can be fidgety.

[raym]

To get "back" to Theater View, you must choose MC itself from the Start Screen.  If you choose Desktop, it switches back and it looks like Theater View is active, but actually the Desktop has the focus (you just can't see it because Theater View is "over top").

Hmm I see this sort of thing now (sometimes) on win7. Fortunately I can just alt-tab from my remote. Would this no longer work on win8 or would I be forced to start MC from the Start Screen just to regain focus?

[jmone]

Still no focus issue for me on Win8.0 on this box.  I see with 8.1 you can boot straight into Desktop (not Metro) if you so desire.