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Author Topic: Theater View and Skins  (Read 34193 times)

InsaneRC

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Re: Theater View and Skins
« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2013, 08:48:59 pm »

Are we gonna see any new improvements in Theater View? Skinning? Plugins?

Maybe somethings in the works?
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FastKayak

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Re: Theater View and Skins
« Reply #51 on: October 18, 2013, 02:02:55 pm »

Version 19 has had 56 builds.  For a typical MC version that means we nearing 1/3 of the way through the build cycle.  So far there has been little happening in theater view.  Maybe time to put some dev resources on it?

FastKayak / Larry
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Al ex

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Re:
« Reply #52 on: October 24, 2013, 04:34:02 pm »

+1
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InsaneRC

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Re: Theater View and Skins
« Reply #53 on: October 24, 2013, 09:10:55 pm »

+2
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Jimmy McNulty

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Re: Theater View and Skins
« Reply #54 on: October 24, 2013, 11:57:27 pm »

As user for 4 days that came from XBMC because of WASAPI issues, I will say as a media player device is way better.  I will probably buy it... probably.

Because lets be serious here.  I like nice looking things that are also functional.  And theater view is neither of those things.  Its a PITA.  I've been crawling over all the menu options available, and nothing seems easily customizable.  The menu system is antiquated.  How you select between options feels Window XPish.  I disagree with anyone that says they need the standard view to select things.  Sure its fine that its there, but I have more options and more ability to customize in XBMC, and theres no 'standard view' as we are discussing here.  There should be an option screen inside the theater view... but thats the last of my concern.  Pressing CTRL+1 to change things then going back to Theater view is fine... as long as I can load into theater view and it actually looks good and is much more control friendly and customizable.  The stock theater view and any of the few skins I have seen searching here are *years* behind the standard XBMC, and Aeon Nox puts them to absolute shame.  When using JRiver I kinda wonder... is this much different than using Foobar and VLC with a MadVR running in the background?  Its probably slightly better for reasons I have yet to research... but what I am getting at is, the interface doesnt feel any different.



Example of something that totally perplexes me:
Why do you offer 80 (being facetious here) different display option backgrounds when I am playing music, but not one looks good?  The only acceptable one is the artist background, but it doesnt even function as an acceptable background for my plasma as it doesnt fade out the player buttons totally and the photos only load in the middle, so the sides of the screen dont have pixels changing periodically.  Standard XBMC milkdrop is 1000X times better than any of the numerous options we have here.



As I said, I'll probably buy it.  I really want to.  But as a pay-for option, I'd like to know my 50 bucks and future upgrade dollars will go towards something that has an interface that is acceptable to me at some point.  From reading over the forum and seeing the previous progressions, I have a feeling XBMC is going to catch up to the audio and video features of JRiver before JRiver puts out a great interface.  You guys already put out the best Audio and Video media player I have found (technically speaking).  I think its time to put out something that looks impressive as well.

Hope this comes across as constructive while sorta confused (on my end, as to why it doesnt look better), and not as an attack.  I really like the software for its capabilities.  But as of yet, I cant convince myself its a one stop option for me, and im disappointed by that.


Edit:  Note, I didnt even touch on plugins.
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MrHaugen

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Re: Theater View and Skins
« Reply #55 on: October 25, 2013, 02:22:38 am »

Thanks for the insight Jimmy. I've tried most of the popular media centers out there, and I agree with you on almost every single point. My "problem" is that I've learned of JRiver incredible and unbeatable customization abilities (not speaking of Theater View only) before I tried many other players, so I can simply not go back to other players. I've tried multiple times, and I will probably continue to try every, or every other, year just to see what's out there.

I do not agree however that Theater View is not customizable. It is to some degree. The way you can manipulate the actual data that is represented in theater view are great. But other than that, the skinning mostly consists of changing color, textures and moving a few elements a bit around. There's simply not a skinning framework available with enough possibilities to compete with the meta data usage, eyecandy and theater view functionality of other top players.

Some months ago the developers opened a bit up and more or less asked us our opinion of what we thought needed to be done with skinning (in this thread). So, I believe they are at least looking into some possibilities. I don't know if we can hope for major overhauls here in a short time, but I hope that they will do some increasing improvements and additions to it so we can create things that the masses like. To attract all the regular media users out there. Not just those that are looking for the best in audio and video.

While I do not believe JRiver will ever go away from it's roots of focusing on audio and video, and I don't think I want them to. I hope that they do get their eyes up for how incredibly important theater view functionality, customization and eye candy really is to the masses of people :) People like shiny things! People like to have the info they want, where they want it and at the time they want it. That's just the way it is. There's some nerds that do not care much about such, but I strongly believe that those are the exceptions, not the rule.
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JimH

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Re: Theater View and Skins
« Reply #56 on: October 25, 2013, 07:31:49 am »

...  Pressing CTRL+1 to change things then going back to Theater view is fine... as long as I can ...
Escape gets you back to Standard View (press it a second time).  So does F11.

Use the four arrow keys on a remote or keyboard and the OK button or Enter key to use the On Screen Display.  Up or down to start.
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MM_switcher

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Re: Theater View and Skins
« Reply #57 on: October 25, 2013, 08:05:27 am »

Any navigation on a touchscreen-only device (Samsung XE700 in my case) is a pain. Theater view runs in fullcreen mode as a desktop-app, so I first have to switch to standard view. Then I'm able to do something else on the desktop.

As there is no real good (touch-oriented) audio media player (app) in the Windows store (and JRiver will not change that, as far as I understood), it is the only way to use the MC (currently 18) on that device.

Please don't neglect the touchscreen users!
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InflatableMouse

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Re: Theater View and Skins
« Reply #58 on: October 25, 2013, 08:27:00 am »

I have a feeling XBMC is going to catch up to the audio and video features of JRiver before JRiver puts out a great interface.

I don't think that's going to happen, somewhere on the official XBMC forums I read that they had no intention on supporting MadVR for instance. As I see it they actually prefer looks over true playback quality.

Every once in a while I try XBMC again. It's full of bugs and its a complete resource hog on large libraries; I need to kill XBMC and restart the scan to library several times before it gets everything, and it takes hours to complete. Enabling all options for maximum video playback quality makes video stutter and judder and audio drop out, its unwatchable, while MadVR with JRiver runs on high settings no problem on the same system.

And while its true that at first glance skins in XMBC look much better if you like that kind of eye candy (I do, I admit), when you get into them and try to configure them to your liking, one will find that its actually very limited. I don't need 10 different list styles when none give me exactly what I want. In Theater View, I can configure a view with exactly the info I want. XBMC skins don't allow me to select fields and format text the way I want it. And when I found a skin with the audio artists and albums list styles I like, movies and series are not presented in a way I prefer.

It takes time and you can argue about less eye candy in MC, but at least you can better customize what info you'd like in your views.
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JimH

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Re: Theater View and Skins
« Reply #59 on: October 25, 2013, 10:22:00 am »

Any navigation on a touchscreen-only device (Samsung XE700 in my case) is a pain. Theater view runs in fullcreen mode as a desktop-app, so I first have to switch to standard view. Then I'm able to do something else on the desktop.
You can set MC to run in Standard View at startup.

MC19 has a new feature that allows sizing of Standard View.  It helps for use with a touchscreen.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=84084.0
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Jimmy McNulty

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Re: Theater View and Skins
« Reply #60 on: October 25, 2013, 02:37:01 pm »

Escape gets you back to Standard View (press it a second time).  So does F11.

Use the four arrow keys on a remote or keyboard and the OK button or Enter key to use the On Screen Display.  Up or down to start.

I was hoping you would address the meat of the post, not the only throw away part I probably should have just omitted anyway.

Thanks for the insight Jimmy. I've tried most of the popular media centers out there, and I agree with you on almost every single point. My "problem" is that I've learned of JRiver incredible and unbeatable customization abilities (not speaking of Theater View only) before I tried many other players, so I can simply not go back to other players. I've tried multiple times, and I will probably continue to try every, or every other, year just to see what's out there.

I do not agree however that Theater View is not customizable. It is to some degree. The way you can manipulate the actual data that is represented in theater view are great. But other than that, the skinning mostly consists of changing color, textures and moving a few elements a bit around. There's simply not a skinning framework available with enough possibilities to compete with the meta data usage, eyecandy and theater view functionality of other top players.

Some months ago the developers opened a bit up and more or less asked us our opinion of what we thought needed to be done with skinning (in this thread). So, I believe they are at least looking into some possibilities. I don't know if we can hope for major overhauls here in a short time, but I hope that they will do some increasing improvements and additions to it so we can create things that the masses like. To attract all the regular media users out there. Not just those that are looking for the best in audio and video.

While I do not believe JRiver will ever go away from it's roots of focusing on audio and video, and I don't think I want them to. I hope that they do get their eyes up for how incredibly important theater view functionality, customization and eye candy really is to the masses of people :) People like shiny things! People like to have the info they want, where they want it and at the time they want it. That's just the way it is. There's some nerds that do not care much about such, but I strongly believe that those are the exceptions, not the rule.

Thanks for the reply, I hope JRiver still focuses on Audio and Video as well, but since its the best at that, I dont see the harm in making it look good.

I could go point by point here in replying to you and Inflatable Mouse, some I agree with and some I dont, but nothing would be negative.  I appreciate your posts, but it would probably just drag down the thread.  I really think it 100% goes without saying XBMC looks much, much better and is much more usable than when using only the theater view in JRiver.  Thats the over riding point I think should be made.  I realy like JRiver for what it is, but its lack of presentation is noticeable.

I should also note I am pretty into audio and video, but not as much as some of the users here, obviously.  I think I toe the line between a XBMC user and a JRiver user.   
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JimH

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Re: Theater View and Skins
« Reply #61 on: October 25, 2013, 02:43:20 pm »

I was hoping you would address the meat of the post, not the only throw away part I probably should have just omitted anyway.
The post came across more as a broad complaint, without much in the way of specifics.

Quote
I like nice looking things that are also functional.  And theater view is neither of those things.  Its a PITA.

Quote
The stock theater view and any of the few skins I have seen searching here are *years* behind the standard XBMC, and Aeon Nox puts them to absolute shame.

Quote
Why do you offer 80 (being facetious here) different display option backgrounds when I am playing music, but not one looks good?  

I don't spend a lot of time trying to sift through opinions to find facts.  Sorry.
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_mulder

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Re: Theater View and Skins
« Reply #62 on: October 25, 2013, 04:50:01 pm »

At least he took the time to write that he would like some changes made to Theater view and skinning abilities. These are things that were mentioned initially from JRiver when mc19 came out and not much has been said since then. Is it something that is still considered (I am not so sure anymore)?

I would hope that JRiver takes these "complaints" as a proof that we care enough about the purchase that we made and would like MC to only get better and more polished in certain areas that seems to be, IMHO, lacking. I think a lot of excellent suggestions have already been pointed in this thread so far. And yes, I understand that these things don`t get implemented in a weekend...

sincerely,
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gappie

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Re: Theater View and Skins
« Reply #63 on: October 25, 2013, 05:13:01 pm »

I was hoping you would address the meat of the post, not the only throw away part I probably should have just omitted anyway.   
that is how it goes.. but with some persistence you can get far... and although I think you can get more out of thv then where you ended, you are right. thv is not skinable, its knitted together to get some nice things working. but/and thv is not just eye candy, standard view is neither. it should be something to get through your library and give you the info you want, preferably with some eye candy and not to many clicks/moves...  now that works great in standard view... :) .

 :)
gab
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dean70

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Re: Theater View and Skins
« Reply #64 on: October 25, 2013, 05:49:57 pm »

here are some themes that make Theater View more user friendly  http://x-plain.blogspot.com.au/p/blue-puzzle-skin.html
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Jimmy McNulty

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Re: Theater View and Skins
« Reply #65 on: October 26, 2013, 01:40:16 am »


At least he took the time to write that he would like some changes made to Theater view and skinning abilities. These are things that were mentioned initially from JRiver when mc19 came out and not much has been said since then. Is it something that is still considered (I am not so sure anymore)?

I would hope that JRiver takes these "complaints" as a proof that we care enough about the purchase that we made and would like MC to only get better and more polished in certain areas that seems to be, IMHO, lacking. I think a lot of excellent suggestions have already been pointed in this thread so far. And yes, I understand that these things don`t get implemented in a weekend...

sincerely,

Appreciate it.  I really do like the product.  I am no programmer, so I dont know the back end or the constraints because of them.  But as much as I like the audio and video processing, its not a complete front end for a media player as it sits.  IMHO!

that is how it goes.. but with some persistence you can get far... and although I think you can get more out of Theater View then where you ended, you are right. Theater View is not skinable, its knitted together to get some nice things working. but/and Theater View is not just eye candy, standard view is neither. it should be something to get through your library and give you the info you want, preferably with some eye candy and not to many clicks/moves...  now that works great in standard view... :) .

 :)
gab
I concur, I can dig in further and get a little more out of it... but I have done enough to realize the front end cant look as good/be as accessible as I would prefer.

I can get to my library many ways.  I have standalone options that work just as well as JRiver.  Thats not the point of a *Media Center*.

here are some themes that make Theater View more user friendly  http://x-plain.blogspot.com.au/p/blue-puzzle-skin.html

Thanks, I will add these.  Not really as in depth as I am looking for, but the improvement is welcome.  Appreciate it.  :)
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preproman

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Re: Theater View and Skins
« Reply #66 on: October 26, 2013, 11:43:08 am »

As user for 4 days that came from XBMC because of WASAPI issues, I will say as a media player device is way better.  I will probably buy it... probably.

Because lets be serious here.  I like nice looking things that are also functional.  And theater view is neither of those things.  Its a PITA.  I've been crawling over all the menu options available, and nothing seems easily customizable.  The menu system is antiquated.  How you select between options feels Window XPish.  I disagree with anyone that says they need the standard view to select things.  Sure its fine that its there, but I have more options and more ability to customize in XBMC, and theres no 'standard view' as we are discussing here.  There should be an option screen inside the theater view... but thats the last of my concern.  Pressing CTRL+1 to change things then going back to Theater view is fine... as long as I can load into theater view and it actually looks good and is much more control friendly and customizable.  The stock theater view and any of the few skins I have seen searching here are *years* behind the standard XBMC, and Aeon Nox puts them to absolute shame.  When using JRiver I kinda wonder... is this much different than using Foobar and VLC with a MadVR running in the background?  Its probably slightly better for reasons I have yet to research... but what I am getting at is, the interface doesnt feel any different.



Example of something that totally perplexes me:
Why do you offer 80 (being facetious here) different display option backgrounds when I am playing music, but not one looks good?  The only acceptable one is the artist background, but it doesnt even function as an acceptable background for my plasma as it doesnt fade out the player buttons totally and the photos only load in the middle, so the sides of the screen dont have pixels changing periodically.  Standard XBMC milkdrop is 1000X times better than any of the numerous options we have here.



As I said, I'll probably buy it.  I really want to.  But as a pay-for option, I'd like to know my 50 bucks and future upgrade dollars will go towards something that has an interface that is acceptable to me at some point.  From reading over the forum and seeing the previous progressions, I have a feeling XBMC is going to catch up to the audio and video features of JRiver before JRiver puts out a great interface.  You guys already put out the best Audio and Video media player I have found (technically speaking).  I think its time to put out something that looks impressive as well.

Hope this comes across as constructive while sorta confused (on my end, as to why it doesnt look better), and not as an attack.  I really like the software for its capabilities.  But as of yet, I cant convince myself its a one stop option for me, and im disappointed by that.


Edit:  Note, I didnt even touch on plugins.

I agree 100% with this post.  Maybe in MC 20 JRiver can really concentrate on skinning in Theather View.  That will just about make this package complete.  IMO.
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MM_switcher

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Re: Theater View and Skins
« Reply #67 on: October 28, 2013, 04:49:14 am »

here are some themes that make Theater View more user friendly  http://x-plain.blogspot.com.au/p/blue-puzzle-skin.html

That's extremely nice! What must I change to be able to use that as a touch-version, with the menu items on the right side of the screen?
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Hendrik

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Re: Theater View and Skins
« Reply #68 on: October 28, 2013, 05:27:49 am »

Split Theater View Usability discussion
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forbigd

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Re: Theater View and Skins
« Reply #69 on: December 11, 2013, 06:45:09 am »

+1 :)

I asked for this a few days back and not one person responded.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=85842.0

I have to use three different pieces of software, because I can't figure out how to make MC do what I want. MC for Music only, XBMC for Video like tv and movies, and I still search for an adequate Video Music Jukebox for my friends.

I really like MC and would use it for everything, but it misses the most important things of each.
TV? Mark shows watched? MC seems to lose track of marked TV making us look and decide "Didn't we see this"? Where XBMC does it fine. I have yet to figure out a way for MC to mark shows watched intelligently. I have an expression that marks it with a checkbox at 96%. But if we stop in the credits it isn't quite at 96 percent so it shows as not completed. And I need a skin, theater or otherwise, that has a big pick list for videos and a Now playing on the same screen that removes songs played to make the list simpler. I can almost do it in Standard View, but then no one uses it because it looks so complicated. In fact the joke around the pool room is... "Oh you broke the jukebox", as one guy will accidentally add all songs by one artist and shuffles them, ruining the playlist. I need to be ready to fix it when it gets ruined by the unwashed. Many times folks can't find what they are looking for as the "selection hasn't been reset from the last guy" So they can't find their artist because it isn't in the previous guys selection.

I guess MC is just too complicated for the casual user. I really like it, but my family and friends do not. One guy refuses to try and just navigates with explorer and plays it in media player.
Thanks for listening....

So back on topic, is there any way to have a now playing window appear in theater view at the same time as the pick list? Or shall I keep looking for something else? Jukebox Jockey and Media Monkey work pretty well for what I want, but don't actually play the video as well as MC. I can't win.  :)

Don

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Ekpen

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Re: Theater View and Skins
« Reply #70 on: December 11, 2013, 09:04:39 am »

Greetings:

"Playing Now" , when it is on, you can use "list" or "info" . is this what you want?

I use "list" option to list the tracks.
Ekpen
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connersw

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Re: Theater View and Skins
« Reply #71 on: December 11, 2013, 10:47:38 am »

forbigd:  I share your frustration that there is a lot that could be done to improve Theater View in both function and appearance.  It seams like squeaky wheels get grease though, and there has been some squawking.  I know Matt and Hendrik are listening so I am hopeful that changes will be coming.  Hendrik has already made changes to make Number of Plays editable, and he is looking at adding it to Theater View with a mark as watched/not watched option.  http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=84964.msg586441#msg586441  So hopefully that will help with your video issues.

Regarding the Jukebox issue, have you tried using Split View with the right being Playing Now and the left being your selection options?  You can even hide the tree now to clean it up.  It's not as pretty as some of the other software you mentioned, nor does it solve the remove from playing now issue, but it might get you closer to what you are after.   You can even lock View 2 on the right so they can look at what is Now Playing, but not be able to mess with it.  Let me know if you'd like a screen shot of what I'm talking about. 
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forbigd

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Re: Theater View and Skins
« Reply #72 on: December 12, 2013, 06:58:18 am »

Connorsw:

Thanks, That is what we do now. We have the tree, and two Views, split and locked. Folks can click or drag tunes to the now playing view, add, reorganize, etc. I even try to lock View 2 so clicking on the tree won't change it from Now Playing. Every once in a while though it decides to lock View one, like the views switched places. That of course makes it unusable for the n00bs. I have to go unlock the view, and move the lock back to the right hand view "Playing Now". But that doesn't happen often.
What does happen is folks look at the view (details) and it looks like an xls to them and they can't figure out what to do. We get folks that have never seen the jukebox before, and they need a class to show them how to pick an artist, album, and then track. On the other hand, I love the configurability, and have no problem using a complicated standard view. I will try another's suggestion to use Party Mode, to keep them from messing with the setup. That seems to have no effect, but I will try again. Interestingly, the idea of hiding the tree makes it worse. When you hide the tree, don't you also hide the top panel showing what is playing? If you do that folks have to look at the Now Playing list to see what track is playing. But since the list does not delete the ones played, they have to look at Now Playing, and see if they can find the color shift of the one playing, or the little arrow pointing at it. It usually is somewhere in the middle of the list of Now Playing. If it would remove played songs, they could just look at the top of the list. So I need to keep the tree so we can see what song is playing easily. It doesn't have to be pretty, just functional. It doesn't have to be theater view, standard would work too. Another issue is that these days everyone has a tablet or phone and when they see a jukebox like device they go for the touchscreen. Since we do have a touchscreen for the monitor, we have a great deal of problems with folks moving files, or the dreaded popup "Do you want to enable pane tagging", when someone tries to use the touchscreen. They come and get me so I can say "No we don't want pane tagging". Standard View with a touchscreen is a disaster. No matter what skin you use, the scroll bars are not wide enough to get with a finger and you end up dragging tunes around the desktop. I have used Noire skin and made it bigger and upped the fonts, I even run the desktop at 1280x1024 to try to get Standard view to have bigger scroll bars. Still problematic with folks missing the scroll bar with their finger. And most of the good data of Standard view has to be thrown away to try to keep it big enough so folks don't have to sit at the PC. They can stand and use the mouse. Just not the touchscreen. If I try Obsidian touch Skin, the touch works great, and you can find what you want, but you can't drag it to the playlist, nor can you see that is playing while you are picking.

As far as marking a show in Theater View as watched, I have that mostly solved. A fine soul here shared an expression I modified a bit and it works great. You get a checkmark next to the file name if it has been watched more than 95% of the way. Then I make sure the view we pick from does not show files with checkmarks in that field. I actually use the checkmark as the item I look for. If it has a check, then it has been watched. In fact the checkmarks are a little dimmer as you watch the show being fully bright at 90+ percent.

Here it is

ifelse(isequal(watched(1), 2),
   regex(Watched(0), /#(\d+)%#/, -1)/
   if(isrange([R1], 5-95), [R1]%, ✔))


So how do you mark a show watched without actually watching it? I created a new field called watched. The only choices are "w" and nothing. If I put a w in the field, the file won't show in either Standard or Theater. So if I need to mark a whole season watched, I just highlight them, TAG, and put a w in the field.

Sorry to go on and on. I really appreciate any help you all can provide.

Don
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forbigd

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Re: Theater View and Skins
« Reply #73 on: December 12, 2013, 07:04:01 am »

Ekpen,

I don't know what you mean by Use list or info. A keypress?

Thanks, Don
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