Topic: Problems with using Nomad Zen to back up music... (Read 7500 times)

pilotbum · « **on:** February 21, 2003, 06:35:41 am »

I've recetly bought a Nomad Zen for two reasons. 1) to have a portable mp3 player, and 2) To have a unit to back up my music to in the event of loss from my PC.

I thought the 20GB storage capability would solve this. However, when I try to download any of my music from the Zen to my PC it is unrecognizable to the PC. There is no longer a file extention attached to the file and it has been renamed. It cannot be opened in MJ or Windows media player (telling me the file has been changed). If I try to add a file extention I get an error message that the file is corrupt and cannot be opened. Am I missing something here or is this a function that is just not possible with the Nomad?

If I cannot use this thing to backup my music, I think it will be returned and replaced with a smaller flash player.

Somebody, please help!!!

SteveG · « **Reply #1 on:** February 21, 2003, 07:27:09 am »

I just fixed a bug with this and it will be posted in the MC 9 Plug-ins as version 9.0.04. Are you running MC or MJ version 8?

pilotbum · « **Reply #2 on:** February 21, 2003, 09:01:13 am »

I'm running MJ8. Does that mean I need to get ver MC9?

If so, I bought MJ8 last October, I didn't quite understand what the cost would be for that time frame.

Randy

PS - Any news on iRiver handheld plug-ins?

SteveG · « **Reply #3 on:** February 21, 2003, 11:41:11 am »

Version 9 would be ideal, but try downloading the latest (3.0.34) plugin and see if that doesn't take care of your problem.

In regards to iRiver, I emailed them a few days ago and have not heard anything yet.

Steve

pilotbum · « **Reply #4 on:** February 23, 2003, 12:30:27 pm »

Downloaded MC9 and now it works, however when it downloads the track it is only named by the name of the track (back in black.mp3) and not by the full file name or in a path that can better identify it, i.e.

ACDC/Back in Black/ACDC - Back in Black.mp3

Is it possible to download it back to the computer in it's original file name or is this the best than it can do?

Randy

SteveG · « **Reply #5 on:** February 24, 2003, 05:43:29 am »

Randy,

The Plug-in should create the file on your PC with whatever the file is named on NJ. In the example you give below, ACDC/Back in Black/ACDC - Back in Black.mp3, is not a valid windows file name ('/' is not a valid character). If your file is named ACDC-Back in Black-ACDC - Back in Black.mp3 this is how the file should be created on your PC.

Steve

pilotbum · « **Reply #6 on:** February 24, 2003, 10:28:24 am »

I guess I wasn't clear. Those \ were seperate folders. The file name should have been the something like ACDC-back in black-05-back in black.mp3 or something to that effect. But when downloading it back to the computer is only comes down as the track name. So I guess that means that it is not saved in the nomad by the same file name that it is on my computer?

SteveG · « **Reply #7 on:** February 24, 2003, 12:57:27 pm »

Randy,

You could do this if you fill your "Name" field with more detailed information. Nomad only allows for one name and I opted for "Name" instead of "FileName" because this is how Nomad organizes the files. Nomad does not have the ability to have unlimited nested folders like a PC.

Steve

pilotbum · « **Reply #8 on:** February 24, 2003, 07:10:55 pm »

Steve,

Thanks for your help. Unfortunately I think the Nomad is being returned. I had a problem with MC9 playing music and it also would not check for updates (got a connection error... failed to connect). MC9 wasn't working out for me and I could not figure out why. Left a thread on the MC9 part of this site and couldn't get the issue resolved. I've still got time to return the Nomad and get a full refund which I think is a better option than putting up with the Playcenter software it comes with. When all the bugs in MC9 get worked out I may entertain a Nomad Zen again, but for now its not much more than a paper weight... an expensive one at that. Do you have any more suggestions before I return that Nomad. I'd keep it if I could get MC9 to work, but it quit playing the music so I've uninstalled it and reinstalled MJ8.

Randy

SteveG · « **Reply #9 on:** February 25, 2003, 04:09:12 am »

Randy,

It sounds like you were having some issues with MC 9 unrelated to the Nomad. Specificallly regarding the Nomad Zen, it should not matter whether you run MC9 or MJ 8, both should work well. If you post what are your current issues with MC / MJ and Nomad I can make some suggestions.

Steve

pilotbum · « **Reply #10 on:** February 25, 2003, 06:22:27 am »

I know that the Zen should work with both, but I still cannot download tracks from the Zen to my computer using MJ8, even with the most current plugin installed. I was really liking MC9 until it quit playing my music. At that point it became worthless to me. I tried uninstalling and reinstalling and no luck there. So finally I uninstalled it entirely and reinsatlled MJ8 and all works again. Here are the problems I was having with MC9:

There was an error starting playback.
Make sur that your system has a valid sound playback device and that it is properly configured in Media Jukebox's playback options.
(double check the output mode. output device. and output bitdepth)

I also still cannot use the "check for updates" option in the help menu. Can't check for updates. Message: JRReader Failed to connect to server. Reason: {none}

I also cannot install ANY handheld device plugins. I have a Nomad Zen, but have tried to plug in others but none will install. I have installed the chart finder, sleep timer, mp3 encoder.

I do realize that the problems I'm having with MC9 are unrelated to the Zen, however, I really kind of need MC9 to work in order to get the functionality out of the Zen that I bought it for. Believe me, I'd like to keep the thing. But I do not plan on keeping it past the 30 days I've got to return it if I can't get it to work properly with MJ/MC (the creative software blows, I'd ditch all jukebox programs before I resort to that thing). Once I can get the MC9 to work properly I think that getting the Zen to work shouldn't be that difficult.

Thanks again for your help...

Randy

SteveG · « **Reply #11 on:** February 25, 2003, 08:37:42 am »

Randy,

It sounds like you ultimately want to use your Zen with MC 9, so I suggest we concentrate on that.

Could you please try redownloading MC (v 9.0.120) available here....

http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=beta;action=display;num=1046127290

Try to play some files. If you still get..

"There was an error starting playback.
Make sur that your system has a valid sound playback device and that it is properly configured in Media Jukebox's playback options. "

Try double checking your output mode and device settings.

If this still fails, please post to the MC 9 interact board for help with this. When you get that working, try downloading the MC 9 Nomad Jukebox Plugin and lets go from there.

I know this may be frustrating, but if we can get it working one piece at a time, I hope we can get it working for you.

Steve

pilotbum · « **Reply #12 on:** February 25, 2003, 10:20:27 am »

Steve,
I'll give it a shot in a couple of hours. However, I'm not sure if it's worth noting to you that windows media player still worked fine. So are you suggesting that it was MC9 that wasn't properly configured with my hardware?

And one more question before I try your ideas, should I uninstall MJ8 before installing MC9? And if so are there any steps I should take to ensure that all components are cmopletely uninstalled?

Also, in the playback options I under settings I had the device set to Wave Mapper (recommended) as I did in MJ8 and it didn't play back music. And the output mode was set to the default as it was in MJ8 (where it also worked).

I did have a post for help on the MC9 board but didn't get a whole lot of advice and that that I did get didnt' help the problem that much.

It is frustrating but i hope we get it going. Thanks again for your help.

Randy

SteveG · « **Reply #13 on:** February 25, 2003, 12:21:31 pm »

pilotbum,

"So are you suggesting that it was MC9 that wasn't properly configured with my hardware?"

Yes, that is my best guess.

You should not need to uninstall MJ 8 before going to MC9.

In regards to the playback options, if what you were set to doesn't work, post again to the MC9 board for help and if it is not working out for you, email me.

Be sure to get the latest MC from the link I gave you above.

Steve

pilotbum · « **Reply #14 on:** February 25, 2003, 05:02:55 pm »

Steve,

Got it all working. thanks for your help. MC9 works great and so does the jukebox. I was installing an earlier version of MC9 that I downloaded from the website and the later version did the trick.

I wanted to use the Nomad to backup the music files as well as a portable device but I'm still a little leary about the way the Nomad changes the filenames to tracks. I'd rather it not do that, but I understand that is a limitation and function of the Nomad and not MC/MJ. So I'll probably go figure something else out for that.

One more question (okay, several questions about one thing) before I leave you alone though, when using the sync function, does it sync all music or just the music in the playlists? I'm guessing that it will sync the files in the playlists only unless I've got the transfer all files checkbox checked? Also, what does the "delete files not in list" checkbox do and the update tags checkbox do? I think my primary concern is when syncing, does it go either way meaning that the Nomad can also overwrite the files in the computer? Or, will the computer only ovewrite the files in the Nomad? Or both (like when syncing a plam pilot)? when I hit the synchronization no music files show up in the window, only the playlists (and the video and still image playlists for that matter, how do I remove them from teh sync? Do I right click then hit delete? I'm afraid of deleting it from the computer.) I've looked through the help menus and could not find anything on the sync.

Hope I was clear enough with all my questions. But thanks again for our help.

Randy

SteveG · « **Reply #15 on:** February 26, 2003, 05:48:43 am »

Randy,

Glad things are working for you.

In regards to the filename rename issue, here is one possible solution for you with MC9....

1) Go to Tools->Fill Properties from Filenames and assign your Filename naming convention to a field that you are not using (i.e Comment).

2) Go to Tools->Move/Copy Fields and choose "Flip-Flop" to switch your Comment field and Name field.

3) Transfer your files to Nomad.

4) Flip-Flop the fields back.

I am sure there are other (better?) ways to do this, but this should work.

In regards to the sync, it can sync either all music and no Playlist information(by selecting "Transfer All Files") or All Playlists and files (by clicking the "Select All" button) or any selected Playlists (by expanding the Playlists tree and picking the Playlists you want).

The "Delete Files Not in List" will delete any files on your Nomad that are not in the selected files that you are synching. For example, if you have 5 files on your Nomad and you choose to synch 3 files that are duplicates of the 5 and select this option, you will have only your 3 files on Nomad after the synch.

"Update Tags" will modify your files on Nomad to reflect any tag changes you have made in MC.

Synching is one-way from PC to Nomad. Nomad never overwrites files in the PC.

To deselect particular Playlists from your synch, expand the Playlists tree and uncheck playlists you do not want to send.

I hope that covers everything. Let me know if you need more information.

Steve

pilotbum · « **Reply #16 on:** February 26, 2003, 07:25:55 am »

Thanks Steve, but I may have spoke too soon. Last night I was trying to transfer my music over to the Nomad and it kept locking up MC9 to the point where I had to force a shutdown of the MC and restart it. When I restarted it would usually do the same. I was trying to send all music files over to the Nomad (that's a little shy than 2000 files right now). If Windows said the program was not responding I would leave it and sometimes after a couple of minutes it would clear itself out and work eventually. But then when I actually initiated the transfer some files did not make it and some were duplicated and installed twice. Any thoughts on that? (I've got a P4/1.7 machine with 512 ram FYI) I'm trying to delete everything and satrt over but having no luck with that, MC keeps locking up and shutting down.

One other issue I ran into last night was that MC9 said I only had 17.xx GB of space left on my Nomad when it was empty while the Nomad said it had 19.xx of space left. That's quite a discrepency. any thoughts on that too?

My final issue I need to take up with Creative labs, the Nomad battery is only lasting 2-4 hours and not the advertised 12. But that's got nothing to do with MC.

Thanks.

Randy

SteveG · « **Reply #17 on:** February 26, 2003, 10:20:05 am »

Randy,

I am going to rework the synchronization part of the Plug-in to better handle duplicate files which I think is at the heart of your problem. For now, transfer your files using drag and drop and look for a new plug-in soon.

Steve

pilotbum · « **Reply #18 on:** February 26, 2003, 12:38:41 pm »

Steve

I can't transfer files. Whenever I try to transfer or delete files from the Zen I get a message "Media Core has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." It does it every time whenever I try to transfer a large amount of files. Fewer files it does not always do it, but usually. when trying to transfer 2000 files its impossible to do it one at a time.

Also, how come MC tells me I only have 17GB when the Nomad tells me I'e got almost 20GB of free space?

What do you make of that?

Randy

SteveG · « **Reply #19 on:** February 27, 2003, 04:26:07 am »

Randy,

I will have to check into this. I don't immediately see these problems, but I do not have a 20GB Nomad. For now, can you confirm for me what OS you have and be sure you have installed the standalone drivers for the Nomad Zen from.....

http://www.nomadworld.com/downloads/drivers/

Your problems could very possibly be driver related. I will work on the file duplication today.

Also, in regards to the reported size difference, this is the result of how drives convert bytes to MBs. The report of 17 GB vs 20GB is not an error as much as a difference in how the space is reported.

Steve

pilotbum · « **Reply #20 on:** February 27, 2003, 07:40:37 am »

Steve,

I am running Windows XP. I have double checked and I am running the most current drivers. I've tried to reinstall the drivers anyway and do a sync and after about 150 files I got the message "Media Core has encontered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." Then I shut it down and resarted MC and tried it again. Got the same message at about the same place in the sync. this time I let it go and it continued to sync even with that message. Shortly there after I got another message "Creative NOMAD Jukebox Branding Module has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." Then, that was the end of my sync.

So with the reported size difference, As the drive in the Zen gets filled up will it become more accurate so that I can use up all 20gb? Or will MC even allow me to try to use that extra 2.x gb since it thinks it doesn't exist?

Randy

SteveG · « **Reply #21 on:** February 27, 2003, 12:30:24 pm »

Randy,

Can you transfer 100 files or so just using drag and drop and tell me if you get the same errors. Try to transfer the file(s) that you think are causing the error synching and see if you can isolate the file causing the problem. If you can, please email me the file.

In regards to the size issue, expressions of MBs and GBs are ambiguous. The number of bytes that are actually available on your Nomad are being reported consistently between MC and Nomad (even though this is lower than using Nomad's PlayCenter). The ambiguity comes from defining a MB as either 1000 or 1024 bytes. You will be able to use 17 GB of MC files. These numbers would all be different in PlayCenter, but hte actual size used is the same.

pilotbum · « **Reply #22 on:** February 27, 2003, 03:51:30 pm »

Alright, here's what I've treid to do today...

First as you suggested I tried to install the music by dragging and dropping. I did this with groups of 100 files to over 600 files until I'd transfered all files (so I thought). It did not seem to matter what size the grouping was, there was no pattern to when it would and would not work. On some attempts it would work with 600 files and with other attempts it would not with around 100 files. Sometimes I could try the exact same files that just failed and it would work. Eventually I had depleted the list. However, when the transfer was complete there were 18 files missing from the count compared to that of my library on my PC. Never during any of these attempts could I narrow it down to one file only. there were never any messages associated with any one particular file. Additionally, there were never any messages indicating that there was a problem with any of the transfers or that any files did not get transfered.

Then I tried to sync it after I realized there were files that did not make it and nothing happened. And shortly into the sync the same old shut down message appeared.

Today I also tried to uninstall and reinstall the MC9 and Nomad driver. Now I am occasionally getting a new message:

Server Busy. This action cannot be completed because the otehr program is busy. Choose 'Switch To...' to activate the busy program to correct the problem.

I tried that but could not figure out what program it was referring too. Sometimes there were other programs running and other times there were not.

Hope something here is of use to you. Let me know what I should try next... if you have any more ideas.

Randy

SteveG · « **Reply #23 on:** February 28, 2003, 04:53:18 am »

Randy,

Thanks for the information. I will create another Plug-in for you to test and hopefully have it done this afternoon. In regards to the missing files, I am pretty sure that the problem is that you probably have multiple files with the same name ( but in different locations). I will build in a more elegant way of informing users of this situation. The "Server Busy" message is not coming from the Plug-in. Let me get you a new Plug-in and we can pick up troubleshooting it from there.

Steve

pilotbum · « **Reply #24 on:** February 28, 2003, 08:23:08 am »

Sounds great. I won't have much time to mess with it today but should have plenty over the weekend. Hopefully. That makes sense about the duplicate files. I'll be looking for the new plugin.

Out of curiosity, am I the only person having these problems? Or are there just not that many Zen users using MC9 yet? As I've mentioned before, I'm thinking about returning the thing sometime next week if we can't get the kinks ironed out. I'm running out of my 30 day window that the unit is returnable. Given that it really has not worked out for me yet I really don't want to hold on to it if it won't work for me. Although there has been progress made, so far its just been a really expensive paper weight. So please let me know your thoughts on the whole situation. If I'm the only person having the problem it makes me suspicious of whether it is my computer or my particular Zen.

Thanks Again.
Randy

SteveG · « **Reply #25 on:** February 28, 2003, 09:41:59 am »

Randy,

I have had reports of everything working well for people with Nomad Jukebox and MC 9. If you take the synchronization feature out of the mix, this Plug-in has been stable for some time with version 8 and with version 9 for a few weeks.

Steve

PS No new Plug-in yet. I retested what is posted and if you discount the lack of notification about duplicates, everything seems ok. A new Plug-in will be available soon.

pilotbum · « **Reply #26 on:** March 03, 2003, 04:39:10 am »

Steve,

Guess its just my system then. I did little trouble shooting of my own and did find some answers to some questions. I found 18 files (remember that was the difference between what uploaded to the Zen and my computer) that did have issues. MC9 or the plugin never alertedme to these particular files having issues but some of them were mp3 files with issues and one was an mpg. I deleted these files hoping that would solve things but no luck. I did have some new music to install over the weekend and it installed fine but it was not a large amount like before. I also tried the sync function however and that did still fail (had to close MC9 down).

the rest of the file seem to be working okay. But for all I know that is the problem.

How is the updated plugin coming along?

Randy

SteveG · « **Reply #27 on:** March 03, 2003, 04:46:46 am »

Randy,

Thanks for the feedback, I will have something posted today for you to try.

Steve

SteveG · « **Reply #28 on:** March 03, 2003, 08:58:14 am »

Randy,

I have a new Plug-in for you. Unfortunately, the person who can update our website is gone (most likely for the day). If you want it ASAP, email me at steve @ jriver.com and I will email it to you with instructions on how to register it. If not, it will be posted tomorrow morning.

Steve

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Author Topic: Problems with using Nomad Zen to back up music... (Read 7500 times)