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Author Topic: JRMC19 + drop out + DSD in DoP + Latency settings  (Read 4416 times)

jad17

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JRMC19 + drop out + DSD in DoP + Latency settings
« on: August 26, 2013, 11:29:33 am »

I have MEITNER MA-1 + Windows 7 (32Gb) + JRMC19 + MEITNER driver Kernel Streaming 2.0

Using JRiver "standard" no drop out with Meitner settings = Latency Minimum level + 512 Samples
Using With JRiver "DSD in DoP" I have drop out. I need to set Latency on Low level + 512 Samples (sound is better with Minimum Latency)

Any advise to recover Latency Minimum using DoP and without drop out ?

Thank's

José
(France)

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6233638

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Re: JRMC19 + drop out + DSD in DoP + Latency settings
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2013, 03:03:26 pm »

The smaller you make the audio buffer, the more susceptible it is to interference from other processes running on the computer, and it generally requires a faster system to work well. DPC Latency starts to become a factor too.

Latency settings in the driver are for when you need low latency for realtime applications (e.g. monitoring audio) or you need to have a known fixed delay.
For example, I know that when outputting 192kHz my DAC takes 0.47ms for processing, and if I use an 8192 sample buffer, that's 42.67ms - so to correct audio/video sync, I need ~43ms correction. Actually, it's quite a bit more complicated than that, but at least I now know the DAC has a fixed latency which I can factor out. (Media Center itself has some latency, and so does the display)

If you are just using the DAC for music playback, you should be using the largest buffers possible, so that it is not susceptible to interference.
There should not be any audible difference when you change buffer size, up to the point that it is too small for audio to be played back correctly. My DAC allows you to set the buffer from 64 samples to 8192, and at lower values it starts sounding distorted when the buffer size is too small, and if you go even lower once you start hearing distortion, then it starts dropping out.

You will probably also find that higher sample rates require larger buffer sizes for stable audio playback.

The Meitner MA-1 website seems to offer a native ASIO driver provided by Thesycon, which I would recommend using rather than Kernel streaming.
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jad17

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Re: JRMC19 + drop out + DSD in DoP + Latency settings
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2013, 04:25:15 am »

Thank's a lot for these explanations.
José
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ted_b

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Re: JRMC19 + drop out + DSD in DoP + Latency settings
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2013, 07:52:01 am »

The Meitner website is a bit misleading.  Meitner has no interest in creating an ASIO driver for direct DSD; they use DoP, so the ASIO is only relevant for PCM.  Use WASAPI or KS. 

I also used to set my Thesycon console to minimum latency for my MA-1 but now set it a little higher and find no sonic tradeoffs.
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jad17

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Re: JRMC19 + drop out + DSD in DoP + Latency settings
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2013, 09:59:28 am »

Thank's for the advise
Same settings for me.
José
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6233638

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Re: JRMC19 + drop out + DSD in DoP + Latency settings
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2013, 05:53:28 am »

The Meitner website is a bit misleading.  Meitner has no interest in creating an ASIO driver for direct DSD; they use DoP, so the ASIO is only relevant for PCM.  Use WASAPI or KS.
I'm not sure I understand. DSD and DoP are the same thing, with a different transmission method. Why would you avoid using ASIO?
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ted_b

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Re: JRMC19 + drop out + DSD in DoP + Latency settings
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2013, 07:45:36 am »

I'm not sure I understand. DSD and DoP are the same thing, with a different transmission method. Why would you avoid using ASIO?

They don't want to take the time to write an ASIO driver when they feel the MA-1 does fine with WASAPI or KS..
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6233638

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Re: JRMC19 + drop out + DSD in DoP + Latency settings
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2013, 07:59:56 am »

They don't want to take the time to write an ASIO driver when they feel the MA-1 does fine with WASAPI or KS..
There are ASIO drivers available on the website: http://www.meitner.com/ma-1.html
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ted_b

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Re: JRMC19 + drop out + DSD in DoP + Latency settings
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2013, 08:17:48 am »

Again folks, they are NOT native DSD ASIO drivers.  You cannot do "DSD" bitstreaming with them, just "DoP" (picking WASAPI or KS).
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6233638

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Re: JRMC19 + drop out + DSD in DoP + Latency settings
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2013, 09:58:06 am »

Are you saying that the ASIO driver does not support DoP, and it only works with WASAPI/Kernel Streaming?
Or that ASIO only supports DoP and not native DSD?

Because the website seems to indicates that DoP is supported in the ASIO driver.


DSD and DoP are the same as far as audio is concerned, but a lot of hardware/drivers only support one or the other. Media Center will output in whichever format your hardware requires.
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ted_b

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Re: JRMC19 + drop out + DSD in DoP + Latency settings
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2013, 10:13:22 am »

If it were native ASIO then in JRiver the user needs to select "DSD' as bitstreaming (not DoP).  I was simply (argh) trying to tell folks that although the Meitner driver says ASIO it does not support "DSD" bistreaming, only "DoP" while choosing WASAPI or KS. 

Yes, DoP and DSD are the "same" but DSD-dac owners often choose ASIO for a reason, and usually it is to direct DSD bitstreaming rather than DoP.  This is possible with the Mytek, among others.  It is not possible in the Meitner.  This is just an FYI.
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