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Author Topic: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.  (Read 11632 times)

Claude Lapalme

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The problem is easy to explain. I use MC in my entertainment room as an HTPC with a Harman Kardon receiver through HDMI. Unfortunately, the audio signals does not synchronize even when a silence is sent, leaving the beginning of any “cold started” track with a significant audio gap (at least 2 seconds) until the receiver kicks in. Using “Play All” will make this occur at the start of the first track only, and the following tracks, including gapless ones, will play fine. I have set DSP to upsample every audio track since “Play All” only works without that gap if the tracks are at the same sample rate (otherwise, there is a gap every time a different sample rate is used). But even with upsampling, every time I use “Play” instead of "Play All", the gap is present. This is also the case using SPDIF.

This matters little to me for video. For audio however, it is an unfortunate state of affairs for any music lover. I do understand that this problem is specific to hardware, but HKs are still fairly popular receivers. Sending a low decibel signal instead of a true silence would synchronize MC with my receiver, and eliminate the gap. I know this is the case with many other MC users, and I hope enough people will join me in asking for this feature. Matt is looking for 10+.
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jhkTO

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Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2013, 04:04:34 pm »

+1
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6233638

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Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2013, 04:11:35 pm »

This seems like a worthwhile addition for hardware that needs it. The question is what's enough to trigger it? Would a -95dB signal suffice?
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Claude Lapalme

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Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2013, 04:19:03 pm »

I wouldn't know how to test it. I would love to do it if someone could tell me how ...
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Matt

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Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2013, 04:23:48 pm »

I wouldn't know how to test it. I would love to do it if someone could tell me how ...

Switch to Internal Volume.  Set it to 0%.

Play pink noise using Tools > Advanced Tools > Audio Calibration > Pink Noise (at -20 dbFS).

Turn the volume up slowly and note what volume level causes the receiver to "see" a signal.
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Claude Lapalme

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Re:
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2013, 06:01:49 pm »

You guys really did think of everything, did you!

Anyway, I did that test and the receiver kicked in immediately at 1%, which read at -95.5

Hope that helps.
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Bobo_The_Imp

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Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2013, 06:18:30 pm »

+1 I agree as well
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javidan

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Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2013, 11:54:21 pm »

+1

I am using an Onkyo AVR which has the exact same problem.
Thanks for raising it up, I didn't make a post on my own earlier because I thought it was only specific to my amp and it would be silly to request for it specifically for only this particular brand.
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Matias

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tls62dk

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Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2013, 05:55:52 am »

+1. Same problem on my Arcam.
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sunfire7

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Re:
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2013, 10:00:59 am »

Finally, +1!
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Tiago C

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Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2013, 12:57:38 pm »

+1. It seems several onkyo receivers face the same issue...
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pookst55

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Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2013, 04:16:42 pm »

+1 Three year old Harman Kardon receiver has same problem
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Matt

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Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2013, 04:22:50 pm »

I said +10 in the other thread, but this is close enough.  If the change doesn't happen this week, please bump this thread.

Also, if anyone has something other than Harman Kardon, please do the same test as Claude Lapalme did above and report if 1% volume is enough to get the receiver to "see" a signal.  Please include the type of hardware you have in your result.

Thanks.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

Claude Lapalme

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Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2013, 04:30:50 pm »

Happy Day!


Thanks in advance on behalf of all
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MrHaugen

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Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2013, 09:40:35 am »

Good that I stumbled upon this thread. This has been quite the annoyance on my new Onkyo receiver. I'll try the mentioned settings later.
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Matt

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Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2013, 02:39:20 pm »

Next build:
Changed: Startup and between track silence is -96dBFS narrow band pink noise instead of pure silence so that it works better with hardware that ignores pure silence ( http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=83964.0 ).

The low volume noise is not placed in the subwoofer channel.
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fitbrit

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Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2013, 02:44:22 pm »

+1 On Onkyo.

Several issues were alleviated recently after the addition of a Gefen HDMI Detective+ into my HDMI chain, including this one. Therefore, my Onkyo briefly loses the signal, but picks up the Pink noise again, even at 0 db. I think it's because the HTPC is always seeing a 7.1 capable receiver due to the HDMi Detective+. I'd still want this feature to be fixed in case I ever remove this $100 piece of hardware.
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fitbrit

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Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2013, 02:45:54 pm »

Next build:
Changed: Startup and between track silence is -96dBFS narrow band pink noise instead of pure silence so that it works better with hardware that ignores pure silence ( http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=83964.0 ).

The low volume noise is not placed in the subwoofer channel.

Thanks! This is a HUGE addition to the program. Lots of threads on this on AVS forums. It's another reason to launch MC and then stay there on an HTPC. :)
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mojave

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Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2013, 02:51:25 pm »

It's another reason to never leave MC on an HTPC. :)

I always leave MC on my HTPC.  ;D Your post sounds like the opposite, but I know what you are saying.
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Claude Lapalme

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Re:
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2013, 02:56:32 pm »

Just for my information: is this a global change to media center, or is it only when you use the "send silence" option.
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fitbrit

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Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2013, 10:40:41 pm »

I always leave MC on my HTPC.  ;D Your post sounds like the opposite, but I know what you are saying.

Ha! Thanks. I edited.
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Claude Lapalme

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Re:
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2013, 10:59:28 am »

Well, testing it answered my question. Thanks a million for this. It works perfectly. I have mine set at two seconds in order to work, so one can see it was a significant issue.
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Soul_Rvr911

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Just wanted to chime in another huge THANK YOU for this! I have an Onkyo receiver that suffers from this issue, and I'm glad to hear there's finally a workaround!
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sunfire7

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Re:
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2013, 12:42:31 pm »

I tested .49 agains my HK and still the same, even with 5 seconds start up :/

Harman Kardon 1650
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6233638

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Perhaps we need a preference that
  • Enables or disables this feature
  • Allows users to enter the volume required for their hardware
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Claude Lapalme

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Re:
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2013, 01:06:30 pm »

@Sunfire: did you do the test outlined earlier in the thread?  It was very helpful for me in determining the decibel level was required for my receiver to see the signal. It is possible that -96 is just too low for your hardware. Obviously, JRiver will attempt to keep this pink signal as low as possible, but if you can show that you need a little more and exactly how much, I'm sure the alteration would be made provided it is small enough, which is quite certain to be. The customization option advocated by the previous poster would also be welcome, but I have a feeling it's much more under involved in terms of programming it may not happen for a while.
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kstuart

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So far, this appears to have solved my only playback problem, which is that playlists with tracks with mixed bitrates (such as Random/Shuffle playback), would cause my USB DAC to produce popping noises (not just at the beginning of the track).  These noises would go away if I pressed "stop" followed by "play", in other words, flushing the buffers.

It appears that 1/2 second of this pink noise cures the problem, while pure silence did not.

Given the number of requests in the thread, it is amazing how useful this may turn out to be... thanks for implementing it !

sunfire7

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Well, tested .49 with my onkyo and it does solve the problem (with the current -96db). I tested the suggested test and my HK reacts at -95.5db (1% of internal volume). So I don't know if those .5db make the difference or my HK is just weird.
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dean70

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Next build:
Changed: Startup and between track silence is -96dBFS narrow band pink noise instead of pure silence so that it works better with hardware that ignores pure silence ( http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=83964.0 ).

The low volume noise is not placed in the subwoofer channel.

This could be useful for the subwoofer as well. Most subs have an auto power down when no signal is received & I have noticed it can switch off if no audio is present on the sub channel for about 15 mins. There is a delay when it powers back up on a signal before the sound is heard.
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fitbrit

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This could be useful for the subwoofer as well. Most subs have an auto power down when no signal is received & I have noticed it can switch off if no audio is present on the sub channel for about 15 mins. There is a delay when it powers back up on a signal before the sound is heard.


The problem is that a lot of subs require a decent (audible?) signal to come out of auto-sleep.
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Matias

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Fixed here too. Thank you very much!  :)
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sunfire7

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Don't know if you improved this in .50 but now is working on all my AVRs, thank you JRiver
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