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[Johnny B]

I use many tabs in MC often showing different paths to my media (like Audio -> Artist 1, Audio -> Artist 2 -> Album 1, Audio -> Artist 3) however every time I close and reopen MC it only shows Audio for all 3 tabs and I have to manually dig back to the previous state.
Is this the way MC should behave? And if yes could it be (optionally) altered?

[mojave]

I get the same behavior. I think when Last Location is set in Startup that it will only go to the last view, but not drilled down to any items such as Artist.

I assume you aren't always viewing the same three artists. Otherwise you could just create new views based on Artist.

[Johnny B]

I get the same behavior. I think when Last Location is set in Startup that it will only go to the last view, but not drilled down to any items such as Artist.

Exactly

I assume you aren't always viewing the same three artists. Otherwise you could just create new views based on Artist.

Your assumption is correct (the "3 artists" case was only an example) - I use many tabs for audio / video but the paths differ in connection with what I'm doing in MC at given moment; from time to time I do have to close / reopen MC and then I always have to start from scratch.

[Johnny B]

JRiver, would it be possible to implement such behaviour, please?

[HiFiTubes]

+1

[Johnny B]

bump

[Vocalpoint]

+1

VP

[6233638]

+1

[glynor]

+1

I'll add that I don't think that, personally, I'll use it.  I keep mine set to Playing Now, and I like that restarting MC resets it to a "clean state".  Quite often when I'm done with a particular task in MC, I might have a few split views or tabs or whatever that I was using for a particular purpose, but which I don't need anymore.  It would annoy me to have to remember to manually "clean up" that mess before I close MC.  Now, I just close it and it always starts up "clean".

That said, I think that "Restoring State" is the "new normal".  This is especially true on OSX, but I think the entire industry is moving that way.  Mobile operating systems, iOS in particular, have shown that blurring or erasing the line between "running" and "not running" can not only work, but be beneficial for many (if not all) users.  Real world objects stay in the place and configuration we left them, even when they aren't actively in-use (unless moved by some other force).  There is a lot of research to suggest that our brains are wet-wired to expect this behavior, and that its absence raises the "warning" or "danger" instincts.  Who stole my animal carcass?  In other words... While "it always starts fresh" has some benefit because I can start over if I get lost, "it stays where and how I left it" has more benefit because it trains our brains more effectively (like mapping the real world) to not get lost in the first place.

Most traditional computer programs did not, but most mobile applications (essentially all good ones on iOS) restore state, and many good OSX applications do now, web browsers can be set up that way, and it is filtering into other Windows applications too.

So, I think, I might not use it.  But I'm certainly going to give it a try, I think it should probably be the default option, and I might just prove myself wrong in the end.

[HiFiTubes]

Salient points.

Real world objects stay in the place and configuration we left them,

Do you have kids? 

Now if we can get MC to keep same state, and stop resetting views, while importing files from CD or Disk, while a user is tagging or browsing. 

iOS7 (or apps?) is not so good at "retaining states" imo, downloading a picture in an email will restart if you check another email....another example, type a post in facebook, switch another app you lose your un-sumitted post. Pages fully reloading and eating bandwidth in Safari.

Granted much of this may be design of apps, but overall, I'm confused by some of the apparent shortcomings.

[glynor]

Salient points.

Do you have kids? 

You didn't quote the whole thing.   

Real world objects stay in the place and configuration we left them, even when they aren't actively in-use (unless moved by some other force).

My 2 1/2 year old is a particularly strong force.  And it certainly activates some animal instincts when she does move my stuff.

[HiFiTubes]

You didn't quote the whole thing.   

My 2 1/2 year old is a particularly strong force.  And it certainly activates some animal instincts when she does move my stuff.

I thought you did have a little one now, cool!

[6233638]

I'll add that I don't think that, personally, I'll use it.  I keep mine set to Playing Now, and I like that restarting MC resets it to a "clean state".  Quite often when I'm done with a particular task in MC, I might have a few split views or tabs or whatever that I was using for a particular purpose, but which I don't need anymore.  It would annoy me to have to remember to manually "clean up" that mess before I close MC.  Now, I just close it and it always starts up "clean".

Resetting the playing now list, is a different option from where it starts up, but there's nothing to say we can't have a "start fresh" option too.

What might be a good option would be the ability to close the last tab, without closing Media Center. I have Firefox configured this way and it just takes me to the home page when I do that, rather than closing the window.

I agree with the rest of your post, and I do think it should be the default. Now that I've started using split views a lot more often, and found out that you can go beyond the 6 tab limitation, it would definitely be beneficial.

iOS7 (or apps?) is not so good at "retaining states" imo, downloading a picture in an email will restart if you check another email....another example, type a post in facebook, switch another app you lose your un-sumitted post. Pages fully reloading and eating bandwidth in Safari.

I think what Glynor meant was that if you switch from Mail, Safari, or Facebook to another app, it's restored exactly as it was when you left it even though it was technically closed. (iOS quits/hibernates apps rather than multitasking)
Some of what you mention, such as Safari constantly reloading tabs, is because iOS doesn't use virtual memory, and Safari doesn't cache tabs well. So once it's out of memory, it has to be reloaded. This is actually going to be much worse on the latest hardware than previous iOS devices, because they still only have 1GB RAM, but applications now use ~30% more memory due to the move to a 64-bit processor.

[glynor]

iOS7 (or apps?) is not so good at "retaining states" imo, downloading a picture in an email will restart if you check another email....another example, type a post in facebook, switch another app you lose your un-sumitted post. Pages fully reloading and eating bandwidth in Safari.

Well, Facebook has always been a terrible iOS application.  I'm just glad it doesn't seem to refuse to display new comments and whatnot on posts and pictures anymore (at least most of the time) and freak out entirely when you mess with photos.  So, I don't consider them one of the "best" at all.

As far as Safari, this depends much more on the device you have than anything else.  Safari does aggressively purge background tabs when memory state is low.  It must, as iOS can't page out to "disk".  So, this behavior depends entirely on:

1. Which device you have (older devices with less RAM keep fewer tabs loaded and ready).
2. What other application you switch to (a game is going to suck down all of the RAM).

Those kinds of restrictions will lessen over time as we get devices with more and more RAM and CPU power.  But one thing to keep in mind... Keeping RAM charged costs power.  A lot of power, actually, especially on a ultra-low-voltage processor like modern ARM architectures.  Just dumping in more RAM isn't the whole answer (though that is what Android makers have done, by and large, which leads to worse battery performance per watt hour of battery capacity little by little).

But Safari on iOS is a perfect example of what I was talking about.  It might not waste the RAM needed to fully "preload" all of those background tabs, but it certainly restores state.  In Safari's tab switcher, even with those tabs "unloaded" from RAM, it maintains the illusion that it has by showing a screenshot, and reloading the page quickly as you switch to it.  Of course, if your device is slow or your network connection is no longer available, then tough luck, but it will reload it next time you have a network connection.

Honestly, I've never noticed the Mail photos download thing you mentioned... You mean if you are actively downloading a photo (and it is taking a long time), and you switch back to open different email, that the photo doesn't keep downloading in the background?  I guess mine usually download pretty fast.  It isn't something that is regularly a problem, but then, I don't use email to move large files around (that's what God invented Dropbox, GoodSync, and FTP for)...

Either way, that's not restoring state, it is concurrency.  And, again, all bow to the almighty battery life god.  If you aren't directly responding to user interaction, and iOS needs your RAM, you say bye bye.  No exceptions.

Now, it would be better if, just as it was told "the user switched views, you must die", the app wrote the partially downloaded file out to "disk" (the sandboxed storage for the app) before it killed the download process?  I guess it doesn't, but that'd be better for sure.  But Mail itself, generally, certainly restores state to where you left it whether it was three seconds ago you launched it, or three days ago you launched it (with the same mailbox open and whatnot).

And, I should add, it isn't just iOS.  Many of the best apps on Android work the same exact way (and Google apps on iOS for that matter).  Chrome restores your tabs when you launch it.  Google Maps remembers the last location you looked at (it might have to reload the map data from the network, but it remembers the coordinates).  I haven't spent enough time with a Windows Phone to be sure, but I bet there's even a focus on this on Windows Phone (knowing Microsoft, probably irregularly implemented).

I guess what I was saying is... Restoring state is winning.  And it should be an option, at least.  Probably the default.

[glynor]

This is actually going to be much worse on the latest hardware than previous iOS devices, because they still only have 1GB RAM, but applications now use ~30% more memory due to the move to a 64-bit processor.

This is sliding way off topic, but the situation with the A7 and iOS isn't anywhere near so simple.

[glynor]

Resetting the playing now list, is a different option from where it starts up, but there's nothing to say we can't have a "start fresh" option too.

Agreed.  I wasn't suggesting they take the existing options away, just to add a "restore last state" option that really restored the full last-used state.

Solving the "start fresh" while it is running is simple.  Like you suggest, if you close the last tab, have it reset.  Also, maybe throw a View > Reset MC menu command in there (which closes all tabs and split views for you and goes back to Overview under Playing Now or something).

[6233638]

This is sliding way off topic, but the situation with the A7 and iOS isn't anywhere near so simple.

Oh, I know that 64-bit is a big performance gain, but sticking with 1GB RAM was a mistake:
 

In general you’re looking at a 20 - 30% increase in memory footprint when dealing with an all 64-bit environment

I was already constantly running out of memory on 32-bit hardware with only 1GB. The new A7 hardware effectively has less memory than the previous generation.

[glynor]

The new A7 hardware effectively has less memory than the previous generation.

I agree.

sticking with 1GB RAM was a mistake:

Don't know if I agree.  More memory comes at a real power cost, and without a case redesign (or maybe switching to a different RAM standard) is going to be difficult to compensate for... I'd gladly give a few Safari page refreshes for an extra hour of runtime, but I suppose that depends on your usage model.  And, arguably, cutting object creation and destruction times in half is a more important change for Objective-C, well worth the relatively modest RAM cost (which is really only 20-30% in the worst case, when all apps are running under 64-bit, in practice, you'll be running a mix of ARM64 and ARM32 code for at least the next year).

Still, I agree.  It is more RAM starved than the A6 was.

But then, I don't usually buy during the "S" years, as they're often limited in some way like this, until lithography improvements close the gap (this has typically been in power with Apple products).

Of course, you could just make your phone giant so you can stuff a bigger battery in there.  Everyone else seems to be.

[Johnny B]

(back on topic)
So JRiver, is this doable?