Topic: NEW: Integer mode playback (requires OSX 10.9 and compatible hardware) (Read 56538 times)

Matt · « **on:** October 24, 2013, 12:40:08 pm »

Overview
OSX 10.9 restores the ability of a sound application to deliver data in the physical format of the DAC. This ability is often referred to as "integer mode". OSX 10.6 and earlier had this ability, but it was removed in 10.7 and 10.8. In those versions, audio was always delivered in 32-bit floating point and changed to the physical format of the device by the operating system.

MC19 Mac 19.0.60 (available at the top of this board) adds integer mode support. You will need compatible hardware and a compatible OS (we recommend OSX 10.9, although it might also work on 10.6).

How to Use
In Options > Audio > Device settings... check the 'Integer mode' option:

Then play content. To see that integer mode engaged, look at Audio Path while playing (mouse over the DSP icon at the top right of the player). It will report 24-bit output instead of 32-bit output:

Technical Considerations
Both playback methods are bit-perfect, and bit-perfect methods sound the same.

Integer mode is slightly more efficient since it removes an additional conversion and pushes less memory through the core audio subsystem.

Integer playback puts the hardware into an unmixable state. In this state, other system processing like volume will be disabled.

You will likely want to switch to Internal Volume if you use integer mode.

jtwrace · « **Reply #1 on:** October 24, 2013, 12:48:57 pm »

Great news!

In your testing do you think there is a sonic advantage? Do we just try it and see if it works with our dac?

mercman · « **Reply #2 on:** October 24, 2013, 04:04:52 pm »

Outstanding news!!

bplexico · « **Reply #3 on:** October 24, 2013, 04:08:36 pm »

And thanks so much for releasing this so quickly plus adding support for DSDx2 (PCM to DSD128)! New meaning to the phrase, "coming soon"!

jtwrace · « **Reply #4 on:** October 24, 2013, 09:02:56 pm »

It looks like my spare dac (ODAC) is working with Integer. Yes?

This is my 2009 Mac Mini now with OS X 10.9 with MC19.0.60

muzzer · « **Reply #5 on:** October 25, 2013, 09:25:05 am »

I could never get an O dac to work with integer mode in Pure Music/SL, as far as I am aware the Tenor usb chip is not integer capable.

jtwrace · « **Reply #6 on:** October 25, 2013, 09:31:18 am »

Quote from: muzzer on October 25, 2013, 09:25:05 am

I could never get an O dac to work with integer mode in Pure Music/SL, as far as I am aware the Tenor usb chip is not integer capable.

Well, it works in JRiver as seen above!

bplexico · « **Reply #7 on:** October 25, 2013, 01:23:14 pm »

Matt would it be helpful to create a sticky posting where we could add DAC devices that work properly with integer mode under MC 19?

Matt · « **Reply #8 on:** October 29, 2013, 08:23:53 pm »

A little note to say thanks to all the users that sent logs this last week to help us get integer mode going on more DACs. I think we should be able to use integer mode on any DAC that can support it now*.

Also, thanks to Chris Connaker (of Computer Audiophile) for loaning us a device that used a 24-bit padded format. It's good to have friends in high places that are only a few miles from the office

I also got to listen to his sound system, which is worth as much as my house, while I was there to pick up the DAC.

(* The only exception might be big-endian devices. I think we have it right, but the devices are pretty rare so we haven't tested. I'm working with one manufacturer of these type of devices now to get them to test.)

freddie40 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 30, 2013, 06:43:59 pm »

Just got back my QB9 after being updated to DSD. Integer mode does not work, static

Here's the log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0xnhqkeon2ka4pp/Log.txt

Dave

bplexico · « **Reply #10 on:** October 30, 2013, 06:48:47 pm »

Quote from: freddie40 on October 30, 2013, 06:43:59 pm

Just got back my QB9 after being updated to DSD. Integer mode does not work, static

Here's the log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0xnhqkeon2ka4pp/Log.txt

Dave

Are you trying this with the current release which is 19.0.67? Earlier releases such as 19.0.65 did not work for many of us, but 19.0.67 has worked for quite a few.

Just checking....

freddie40 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 30, 2013, 08:02:40 pm »

Quote from: bplexico on October 30, 2013, 06:48:47 pm

Are you trying this with the current release which is 19.0.67? Earlier releases such as 19.0.65 did not work for many of us, but 19.0.67 has worked for quite a few.

Just checking....

You are correct. I did have the wrong version

Dave

1spammagnet@gmail.com · « **Reply #12 on:** November 04, 2013, 01:17:38 am »

Integer mode working great on my Woo WDS-1, running on a MacMini with 16 gigs of RAM. Thanks to Jack Wu for getting back to me after his own testing -- I wasn't going to update to Mavericks until I got confirmation.

olivierpe · « **Reply #13 on:** November 05, 2013, 09:06:12 am »

Quote from: muzzer on October 25, 2013, 09:25:05 am

I could never get an O dac to work with integer mode in Pure Music/SL, as far as I am aware the Tenor usb chip is not integer capable.

Hi,

Seems to work pretty well on my brand new Burson Conductor (Tenor TE8802 inside)

corehun · « **Reply #14 on:** November 05, 2013, 09:16:43 am »

Quote from: olivierpe on November 05, 2013, 09:06:12 am

Hi,

Seems to work pretty well on my brand new Burson Conductor (Tenor TE8802 inside)

It says 16 bit input, 24 bit output, does integer mode work like this?

olivierpe · « **Reply #15 on:** November 05, 2013, 09:58:54 am »

uuhh... Maybe I'm wrong as english is not my first language, but sounds that, yes, it works like that (?) I have joined a screen cap with my post before and we can see that as the file is 16 bit, the output is well 24 bits (Conductor works in this way).

Again, sorry if I have misunderstood something, I'll be happy to correct or give you any further informations.

paul30d · « **Reply #16 on:** November 05, 2013, 10:20:54 pm »

Quote from: olivierpe on November 05, 2013, 09:58:54 am

uuhh... Maybe I'm wrong as english is not my first language, but sounds that, yes, it works like that (?) I have joined a screen cap with my post before and we can see that as the file is 16 bit, the output is well 24 bits (Conductor works in this way). Again, sorry if I have misunderstood something, I'll be happy to correct or give you any further informations.

I don't know anything about how jriver MC works, but I do know that changing from 16 bit to 24 bit is completely lossless. An example would be, instead of writing the number "2", you write it as "00000002". The extra zeros are just padding, and don't change the value at all. So you have nothing to worry about.

corehun · « **Reply #17 on:** November 06, 2013, 07:29:32 am »

Quote from: paul30d on November 05, 2013, 10:20:54 pm

I don't know anything about how jriver MC works, but I do know that changing from 16 bit to 24 bit is completely lossless. An example would be, instead of writing the number "2", you write it as "00000002". The extra zeros are just padding, and don't change the value at all. So you have nothing to worry about.

but It doesn't say (padded). I saw the padded indication in the earlier posts, like msb dac...

Matt · « **Reply #18 on:** November 06, 2013, 08:38:23 am »

If you see "24-bit" or "24-bit (padded)", it means integer mode is working.

Padded means the data has more zeroes (ie. the difference between 0012 and 12). This is sometimes done because computers are better at dealing with 32-bit data than 24-bit data, so the 24-bit data is padded with eight extra zeroes to 32-bit.

More on bitdepth here:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Bitdepth

jtwrace · « **Reply #19 on:** November 11, 2013, 07:12:34 pm »

Quote from: Matt on October 24, 2013, 12:40:08 pm

You will likely want to switch to Internal Volume if you use integer mode.

I have my volume disabled as I use a preamp. Does this matter? Is there a reason to not have it set that way?

bob · « **Reply #20 on:** November 11, 2013, 11:48:04 pm »

tested on 10.6.8. Audio Path output says 32 bit direct connection with both the internal sound device and an external USB device. They may both be too old but it does play whether the box is checked or not. DSP studio is off.

DZetye · « **Reply #21 on:** November 24, 2013, 01:35:18 pm »

Will the Teac UD-501 work on integer mode?

mwheelerk · « **Reply #22 on:** December 05, 2013, 11:27:31 pm »

Quote from: Matt on October 24, 2013, 12:40:08 pm

Overview
You will likely want to switch to Internal Volume if you use integer mode.

I don't understand the Internal Volume issue. I use an inexpensive but decent AudioQuest Dragonfly DAC. mine has been set to System Volume and the Audio Path shows Integer Mode is working. However following this recommendation and setting to Internal Volume if I move the slider full right the volume is equivalent to a 20% setting when it is set on System Volume and sounds rather lifeless in comparison. Am I doing something wrong? How would I adjust. Volume levels with Internal Volume setting if not the slider? What is the benefit of Internal versus System Volume when using Integer Mode? Should I turn Integer Mode off?

Thanks for the help. I am learning everyday.

Matt · « **Reply #23 on:** December 06, 2013, 04:03:50 pm »

Quote from: mwheelerk on December 05, 2013, 11:27:31 pm

I don't understand the Internal Volume issue. I use an inexpensive but decent AudioQuest Dragonfly DAC. mine has been set to System Volume and the Audio Path shows Integer Mode is working. However following this recommendation and setting to Internal Volume if I move the slider full right the volume is equivalent to a 20% setting when it is set on System Volume and sounds rather lifeless in comparison. Am I doing something wrong? How would I adjust. Volume levels with Internal Volume setting if not the slider? What is the benefit of Internal versus System Volume when using Integer Mode? Should I turn Integer Mode off?

Thanks for the help. I am learning everyday.

You only need Internal Volume if the System Volume doesn't work in Integer mode (which happens with some, but not all, devices).

There's some more on volume modes here:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Volume

jaredean · « **Reply #24 on:** January 23, 2014, 03:10:29 am »

I just purchased a new Audioengine D1 DAC and it doesn't seem to work...i've check the settings but when i check it still shows 32bit (see image)

tasar · « **Reply #25 on:** February 04, 2014, 08:58:39 am »

Matt and others..... I've tried OSX10.6.8 to no avail. Is the problem between MC scripts and OSX or ion the delivery end ie at the DAC ? As an after thought, is Integer organic to most DACs ie could it care less how the stream enters ?

bob · « **Reply #26 on:** February 04, 2014, 09:23:13 am »

It didn't work for me on 10.6.8 either.
The problem I have is I don't know if the hardware supports or not.
It's also possible the access method changed between the time Apple dropped integer mode in 10.7 and when they put it back in 10.9.

rgm23xxx · « **Reply #27 on:** February 17, 2014, 01:37:40 pm »

I'm using MC19 103 on OS 10.9 with a Lynx Hilo...also have a Meridian Explorer. When I disable integer mode Apple's audio midi setup says I'm using the hilo. When I enable integer mode audio midi setup says it is outputing from core audio. Is this correct? Sound comes through either way and the hilo (and the meridian) displays the correct file sampling rate. DSD also works either way (I'm using bit-sampling to push DSD to the Hilo). Thanks!

JHR · « **Reply #28 on:** February 19, 2014, 07:42:22 am »

Is integer mode "exclusive?" I enabled it in .103 and it works through my AudioQuest Dragonfly, but then MC seems to
"grab" all the output modes for other applications (like Chrome or XBMC). This means I have to return MC to non-integer mode, then reboot, to return sound to other applications. Is this working as designed?

groovyd · « **Reply #29 on:** March 03, 2014, 09:04:41 pm »

Same thing happens for me. I have to leave it turned off otherwise I can't use audio for any of my other apps like skype or web videos.

A feature I would love to see is it to be able to retain integer mode until another app wants to use the audio and have an option for 'pause music for web videos or answering calls' type ability. This is something iTunes does with skype very well. To also have an option to enable it automatically while watching web videos in Safari would be the cat's meow.

jmm007 · « **Reply #30 on:** May 22, 2014, 02:39:27 pm »

Hi
I am new to the forum and to JRiver MC for the MAC. I am running it on a MM with Mavericks. I am using a Resonessence Labs Concero HD DAC. Is there a information thread describing how to configure MC for this DAC?
Thanks
Joe

druism · « **Reply #31 on:** May 23, 2014, 07:44:21 am »

I know this has come up before but I am still not clear why it is happening. If I play a 24/96 track with integer mode off it gets done up as a 32 bit file and sent to the dac (currently Golden Note DAC-7). If I turn on integer mode it sends it as a 24 bit file. All good so far. However, why does it say it is a 24 bit (padded) file, as if it originated from a shallower bit depth? This seems to happen whatever 24 bit file I select. ?

JHR · « **Reply #32 on:** July 13, 2014, 10:53:45 am »

Integer mode still grabs exclusive access of the sound sub-system and won't let go. If you want to play something else (like anything in a browser, for example) there is no sound unless you deselect integer mode, quit MC and reboot (without a reboot MC will not revert modes). The latest version of MC enabled this when I installed by default, so I had to manually disable integer mode and reboot.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=89767.msg620642#msg620642

jhwalker · « **Reply #33 on:** July 13, 2014, 05:41:01 pm »

Quote from: JHR on July 13, 2014, 10:53:45 am

Integer mode still grabs exclusive access of the sound sub-system and won't let go. If you want to play something else (like anything in a browser, for example) there is no sound unless you deselect integer mode, quit MC and reboot (without a reboot MC will not revert modes). The latest version of MC enabled this when I installed by default, so I had to manually disable integer mode and reboot.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=89767.msg620642#msg620642

I use a *bunch* of different media players and listen to Internet streams in my browser (Safari), and I do not have this issue. When I hit the "Stop" button in the Media Center interface, it releases the DAC, and I can listen in other players and / or browsers to my heart's content.

Not saying it doesn't occur for you, but it's not universal.

JHR · « **Reply #34 on:** July 13, 2014, 09:47:28 pm »

Quote from: jhwalker on July 13, 2014, 05:41:01 pm

I use a *bunch* of different media players and listen to Internet streams in my browser (Safari), and I do not have this issue. When I hit the "Stop" button in the Media Center interface, it releases the DAC, and I can listen in other players and / or browsers to my heart's content.

Not saying it doesn't occur for you, but it's not universal.

...and you use integer mode and exclusive access? What DAC?

It wouldn't surprise me if it's not universal; but it happens on both my Mac Minis with two different Dragonfly DACs). And if you check the thread I linked to I wasn't the only one who noticed this. So while not universal, I'm pretty sure it's replicable across a common set of hardware and software settings. Since the JRiver folks said they had trouble reproducing it, I linked back to the problem (that still exists).

Just to be clear, if I'm not using integer mode, all works as it should.

jhwalker · « **Reply #35 on:** July 13, 2014, 09:56:09 pm »

Quote from: JHR on July 13, 2014, 09:47:28 pm

...and you use integer mode and exclusive access? What DAC?

It wouldn't surprise me if it's not universal; but it happens on both my Mac Minis with two different Dragonfly DACs). And if you check the thread I linked to I wasn't the only one who noticed this. So while not universal, I'm pretty sure it's replicable across a common set of hardware and software settings. Since the JRiver folks said they had trouble reproducing it, I linked back to the problem (that still exists).

Just to be clear, if I'm not using integer mode, all works as it should.

Yes, exclusive + integer mode, iFi Nano iDSD.

johnjen · « **Reply #36 on:** July 14, 2014, 02:47:52 pm »

As an alternative to re-booting you can run Activity Monitor and 'kill' "coreaudiod".
This will release the lock that MC has on access to the core audio functions.

This solution is thanks to a few admin's/testers on this board.

JJ

JHR · « **Reply #37 on:** July 15, 2014, 10:43:26 am »

Quote from: johnjen on July 14, 2014, 02:47:52 pm

As an alternative to re-booting you can run Activity Monitor and 'kill' "coreaudiod".
This will release the lock that MC has on access to the core audio functions.

This solution is thanks to a few admin's/testers on this board.

JJ

Thanks! Will do that next time this happens (but hopefully it gets fixed!)

adamt · « **Reply #38 on:** July 15, 2014, 01:44:19 pm »

In some cases, stopping playback or changing tracks in integer mode would cause the audio device to not release correctly. A fix will be in the next build.

lobo85 · « **Reply #39 on:** September 06, 2014, 09:03:44 am »

How would I tell if this is working if my DAC is 32 bit capable?

Matt · « **Reply #40 on:** September 06, 2014, 09:24:56 am »

Quote from: lobo85 on September 06, 2014, 09:03:44 am

How would I tell if this is working if my DAC is 32 bit capable?

Look at the Audio Path while it's playing. That's the popup you see when you mouse over the DSP icon.

mastek · « **Reply #41 on:** October 31, 2014, 03:27:37 pm »

is yosemite (10.10) supporting integer mode just like mavericks?

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Author Topic: NEW: Integer mode playback (requires OSX 10.9 and compatible hardware) (Read 56538 times)

groovyd