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[tjacobse]

This is my first post so please excuse my limited knowledge.

I am trying to stream HD Tracks 96/24 flac files from JRiver MC19 over DLNA to my Sony STR-DN1040 receiver. The receiver supports MP3, LPCM, WMA, FLAC, and ACC formats over the network. I added some 96/24 flac files to JRiver then activated the media network under Tools/Options/Media Network. I added the Audiophile 24-bit DAC server and used the default settings. On my receiver I can see the Audiophile 24-bit DAC server and access the files. However when I go to play a file it looks as if its about to play then says cannot play. Another thing I noticed is on the receiver the file shows as a wav file instead of flac when it attempts to play. The files play from a USB device on the receiver so I know they are good. They also play from the JRiver console as well. My PC is bit older running Windows XP (soon to be replaced).

Any ideas why I cannot get anything to play? The only reason I downloaded JRiver was because the HD Tracks website recommended it.

Thanks

Todd

[connersw]

In your Audiophile 24-bit DAC DLNA settings, under Audio, try changing Format from PCM 24 Bit to PCM L24 No Header. 

[tjacobse]

Thanks but that did not work. I did try turning on and off other various settings with no luck. Funny thing is it plays through my Sony BD player, but I wanted to go directly to the amp. Well I guess there is just something not compatible here. The DLNA server in Windows Media works but that won't play flac files and WM sucks.

Might try Media Monkey as that was also listed on the HD Tracks site.

[connersw]

Did you try forcing the sample rate to 96kHz?  Or changing the Mode to Original?  You may also want to try starting with low settings (ie MP3) just to get something to play, then working the settings back up to high res as you troubleshoot. 

This thread will probably be moved to the Media Network forum where you may get more support. 

[tjacobse]

I think I see what is going on now. In my last post I mentioned I could get the files to play through my Sony BD player. What I didn't notice was when I played the files the file type was listed as .wav. When I try and play through my Sony receiver, initially I can also see the file type is .wav before the receiver says "Cannot Play". If I put the exact same files on a USB drive it shows the file type as flac on the both the BD player and receiver.

So my new question would be what controls the way JRiver streams a file? Why would a flac file streamed through JRiver show as a wav file?

I really like JRiver and want to be able to get it to work so I can buy the full license.

Thanks

[Neco]

Try disabling audio conversion.   I think JRiver is setup by default to convert to a more general format if for some reason it thinks it can't stream that file to a device?

[connersw]

Neco is correct.  The default Mode for the Audiophile 24-Bit DAC DLNA profile is Specified output format.  As I mentioned above, try changing it to Original. 

[jphilpit]

The DLNA server in Windows Media works but that won't play flac files and WM sucks.

Actually, Windows Media Player CAN play at least some FLAC file a few weeks ago. I downloaded the codec for using FLAC in WMP, and it did work. I decided not to use it because WMP can't tell the duration of the files, so the playback time is not listed in the library and the progress bar shows nothing. But note that I was using FLAC-16, and I don't remember whether it was for FLAC-24 too. I'll leave your contention that "WM sucks" uncontested.

I'm trying to do something similar with MC19 playing lossless WMA files to a DLNA Player, but haven't bought the Player yet. One I was considering (Denon X4000) says it will play WMA files but only up to a but rate of 192 kbps. I even spoke on the phone with a Denon rep who told me that's a hard limit; I would hear no sound if I tried to play such files. I haven't seen anywhere in the DLNA description how many bits per second can be sent over the Ethernet cable, but I want to find out before I spend over $1000 on a new AV receiver to also use as a DNLA Player.

HTH

[AndrewFG]

Actually, Windows Media Player CAN play at least some FLAC file a few weeks ago. I downloaded the codec for using FLAC in WMP, and it did work.

You are correct that there are third party filters available that allow WMP to play FLAC files.
However none of those filters enable WMP to push FLAC files to UPnP / DLNA renderers.

[AndrewFG]

So my new question would be what controls the way JRiver streams a file? Why would a flac file streamed through JRiver show as a wav file?

In MC Options for the server, you can select three streaming modes

• Original -- Means that MC will push the original file. And if the renderer does not support that format, the renderer will fail to play it
• Always Convert -- see below
• Convert unsupported formats -- see below

When 2) is selected (and sometimes when 3) is selected) then MC will transcode the file to another format and send that to the renderer. Currently MC supports three other formats that it can convert to:

• MP3
• L16 with Header; which is actually WAV by any other name -- see below
• L16 no Header; which is actually PCM or RAW by any other name -- see below
• L24 with Header; which is actually WAV by any other name -- see below
• L24 no Header; which is actually PCM or RAW by any other name -- see below

The format L16 means Linear PCM with 16-bit depth, 2-channels, and 44100 Hz or 48000 Hz bit rate.
The format L24 means Linear PCM with 24-bit depth, 2-channels, and 44100 Hz up to 192000 Hz bit rate. Although not all players can do this...

For most compatibility use Always Convert, L16 No Header format, since this is the common denominator format that all DLNA devices must support.

{ foot note: (guys at MC please check if this statement is still valid in current versions) the last time that I did a trace on MC I noticed that it was pushing L16 and L24 No Header streams using a URL having the .wav file extension. This means that even though the stream is actually PCM or RAW format (without any WAV RIFF header), some renderers just notice the .wav in the file extension and inform the user that they are playing a WAV file rather than a PCM file -- but, so long as the music plays, who cares what the player says... }

PS perhaps the MC guys will move this post over to the Media Network forum...

[bob]

Thanks for the nice summary Andrew.

We standardized on wav for the extension on L16 files since there were some renderers that wouldn't work without it.
Most renderers ignore the extension from what I can tell.
The mimetype is audio/L16

I've not seen much in the way of DLNA renderers that support 24 bit headerless PCM.
Most of the audiophile DACs seem to prefer 24 bit RIFF wave files.

Some renderers that support 24 bit wave files cannot handle the higher sample rate (at least over DLNA, what is really frustrating is that some will support higher sample rates and more formats if the media is locally connected, like a usb stick).

I've seen some renderers that can't play higher than 48k sample rates.

You could try the default audiophile DAC setting which is "Specified format, PCM24 bit" then under advanced where the sample rate choices are, choose 48k.


The way we show PCM in the output format options changed in version 19.

It's now:
PCM L16 no header
PCM L24 no header
PCM 16 bit  (which is a standard PC RIFF wave file)
PCM 24 bit   (24 bit version of above)

The mimetypes are:
audio/L16 (followed by the format description)
audio/L24 (followed by the format description)
audio/wav
audio/wav

[tjacobse]

Thanks to all who replied to my post. I have tried every suggestion and noted each change in detail, however I still cannot get either flac or wav files to stream. The one thing I was able to do is down source to MP3 and only then could I get my HD files to play. At any rate I can just use the USB drive to play these files. I might post on the Sony forums and see if I have any luck with them.

Thanks

[AndrewFG]

... I still cannot get either flac or wav files to stream. The one thing I was able to do is down source to MP3 ...

Did you try "Always Convert - L16 - No Header" ?? If you got it to play transcoded MP3 then L16 is most likely to work too.

PS How old is your receiver? And does it really claim to be DLNA certified?