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Author Topic: Tag questions  (Read 1910 times)

Jamil

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Tag questions
« on: December 22, 2013, 09:25:20 pm »

With MC18, I was able to stop it from writing data in tags. How can I do this with MC19?  It looks like it wrote all sorts of unneeded stuff in all of my files that I have to now remove from all files. With MC18, it stored this data elsewhere and not in my tags.


connersw

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Re: MC19 How To Stop Changing Tags?
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2013, 02:42:00 am »

Tools -> Options -> File Location -> Cover Art -> Also store image in the file's tag -> Uncheck

Tools -> Options -> General -> Importing & Tagging -> Update tags when file info changes -> Uncheck
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Jamil

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Re: MC19 How To Stop Changing Tags?
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2013, 03:56:09 am »

Thank you.

I am working on fixing my tags now.  The second option (that defaulted to checked on a new install) is probably what caused the issue.  This is very painful to fix.  The development team may want to consider not defaulting this to checked on a new install.  This is the second time I have had to go through this using MC.

My batch tagger helps with correcting this, because I can update tags from file paths.  I will have to manually fix genre and punctuation that I cannot store in the file name (like "?").

connersw

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Re: MC19 How To Stop Changing Tags?
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2013, 08:56:56 am »

Sounds like the problem originated on import.  Make sure in Tools -> Options -> Library & Folders -> Auto-Import -> Configure auto-import, you have "Write file tags when analyzing audio, getting cover art, and applying folder based tags" unchecked for your Music folder paths as well.   I am not sure what the default setting is on a fresh install.
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glynor

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Re: MC19 How To Stop Changing Tags?
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2013, 09:06:25 am »

You don't have to worry about that option in Auto-Import.  Disabling it under Options > General globally disables tag writing (OCD mode).
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Matt

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Re: MC19 How To Stop Changing Tags?
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2013, 09:14:00 am »

By default, auto-import will not write tags (the option 'Write file tags when analyzing audio, getting cover art, and applying folder-based tags' is unchecked).

However, it's perfectly safe to tag with MC -- it's standards-compliant, well tested, and well regarded.
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Robert Joe

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Re: MC19 How To Stop Changing Tags?
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2013, 09:14:34 am »

Disabling like mentioned above works. I now edit my tags using DBoweramp since it doesn't add additional tags and keeps the order and case sensitivity what it was i.e. it only changes the field you edited. Now why can't JRiver do this...
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JimH

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Re: MC19 How To Stop Changing Tags?
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2013, 09:50:53 am »

MC shouldn't be changing case.  Please post details.
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Robert Joe

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Re: MC19 How To Stop Changing Tags?
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2013, 10:25:10 am »

This is before. With JRiver 15 on Windows. Order and Case maintained. Only "TOOL NAME" and "TOOL VERSION" are added.

    comment[0]: AccurateRipResult=AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 9)   [BD1EFF36]
    comment[1]: AccurateRipDiscID=010-00101495-007fe260-a00a3d0a-1
    comment[2]: CRC=D501AA42
    comment[3]: Composer=Billy Joel
    comment[4]: UPC=821797206266
    comment[5]: Artist=Billy Joel
    comment[6]: Title=Travelin' Prayer
    comment[7]: Album=Piano Man (MFSL)
    comment[8]: Genre=Pop
    comment[9]: Date=1973
    comment[10]: TRACKNUMBER=1
    comment[11]: CDTOC=A+96+4BDB+AF29+E96E+1221B+18800+1C132+2060C+244C5+27F51+30090
    comment[12]: CDDB Disc ID=A00A3D0A
    comment[13]: Remastered=MFSL
    comment[14]: RemasteredDate=2010
    comment[15]: TOOL NAME=Media Center
    comment[16]: TOOL VERSION=15.0.80

Now with JRiver 19 on both Windows and Linux it feels it needs to re-order and capitalise some of the tags. I realize tags are case insensitive so it does not break anything. It is just not nice to view the inconsistency when viewing tags from another app.

    comment[0]: AccurateRipResult=AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 9)   [BD1EFF36]
    comment[1]: AccurateRipDiscID=010-00101495-007fe260-a00a3d0a-1
    comment[2]: CRC=D501AA42
    comment[3]: CDTOC=A+96+4BDB+AF29+E96E+1221B+18800+1C132+2060C+244C5+27F51+30090
    comment[4]: CDDB Disc ID=A00A3D0A
    comment[5]: Remastered=MFSL
    comment[6]: RemasteredDate=2010
    comment[7]: TOOL NAME=Media Center
    comment[8]: TRACKNUMBER=1
    comment[9]: DATE=1973
    comment[10]: GENRE=Pop
    comment[11]: ALBUM=Piano Man (MFSL)
    comment[12]: TITLE=Travelin' Prayerx
    comment[13]: ARTIST=Billy Joel
    comment[14]: UPC=821797206266
    comment[15]: COMPOSER=Billy Joel
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Matt

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Re: MC19 How To Stop Changing Tags?
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2013, 10:48:38 am »

The standard tag field names for FLAC are capitalized (GENRE, ARTIST, etc.), and MC is adhering to this.

For example:
http://www.legroom.net/2009/05/09/ogg-vorbis-and-flac-comment-field-recommendations
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glynor

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Re: MC19 How To Stop Changing Tags?
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2013, 11:17:59 am »

You're talking about capitalization of the field names, not the contents of the fields themselves.

Standard ID3v2 tags don't have field names like that.  All fields are labeled with a 4-character Frame ID, which (according to the standard):
Quote
The frame ID made out of the characters capital A-Z and 0-9.

So, written to disk, according to the standard, they don't look like that at all.  The "Album" tag is called TALB, and Track Number is TRCK.  For user-defined text fields, the identifier is TXXX and the frame contains a Description identifier that can be used as the name.  This name can be of mixed case, but there are two considerations:

1. The Descriptions are case sensitive.
2. There can be multiple TXXX frames, but only one of each Description.

Common practice is to use all caps for Description names, because otherwise you could end up with two identically "named" custom TXXX fields, with "different" Descriptions (that are really just different in capitalization).

I think different applications do this different ways, but the vast majority use all caps, and it could be considered good practice to stick to one or the other (and fix any non-conforming tags you find and touch to prevent duplication issues as described above).

XIPH tags (for FLAC, OGG, etc) are, of course, different, and that appears to be what you're using here (based on the comment[] prefixes).  The VorbisComment spec specifies that the field names are case insensitive:

Quote
The field name is case-insensitive and may consist of ASCII 0x20 through 0x7D, 0x3D (’=’) excluded. ASCII 0x41 through 0x5A inclusive (characters A-Z) is to be considered equivalent to ASCII 0x61 through 0x7A inclusive (characters a-z).

So, while you can use lowercase letters, the spec says they are case insensitive, and says they are to be considered equivalent.  Furthermore, if you read all of the documentation on XIPH, it is clear that the general practice recommended is to use all caps for field names, such as in the proposed minimal set of standard field names:

Quote
TITLE
    Track/Work name
VERSION
    The version field may be used to differentiate multiple versions of the same track title in a single collection. (e.g. remix info)
ALBUM
    The collection name to which this track belongs
TRACKNUMBER
    The track number of this piece if part of a specific larger collection or album
ARTIST
    The artist generally considered responsible for the work. In popular music this is usually the performing band or singer. For classical music it would be the composer. For an audio book it would be the author of the original text.
PERFORMER
    The artist(s) who performed the work. In classical music this would be the conductor, orchestra, soloists. In an audio book it would be the actor who did the reading. In popular music this is typically the same as the ARTIST and is omitted.
COPYRIGHT
    Copyright attribution, e.g., '2001 Nobody's Band' or '1999 Jack Moffitt'
LICENSE
    License information, eg, 'All Rights Reserved', 'Any Use Permitted', a URL to a license such as a Creative Commons license ("www.creativecommons.org/blahblah/license.html") or the EFF Open Audio License ('distributed under the terms of the Open Audio License. see http://www.eff.org/IP/Open_licenses/eff_oal.html for details'), etc.
ORGANIZATION
    Name of the organization producing the track (i.e. the 'record label')
DESCRIPTION
    A short text description of the contents
GENRE
    A short text indication of music genre
DATE
    Date the track was recorded
LOCATION
    Location where track was recorded
CONTACT
    Contact information for the creators or distributors of the track. This could be a URL, an email address, the physical address of the producing label.
ISRC
    ISRC number for the track; see the ISRC intro page for more information on ISRC numbers.

That is not accidental.  Throughout the XIPH documentation, field names are always presented in all caps, and those specific fields are "officially designated".  The recommendations for VorbisComment documentdoesn't really address this directly, but even there, all of the field names and proposed field names are shown in all caps.  I think MC is doing the sensible thing here with the tags, and whatever "standard" you are following with yours is "wrong" (certainly one you made up yourself).  Of course, you are free to do what you'd like (VorbisComments are designed to be free-form, after all), but that's why MC is doing what it is doing with regards to that.

I'm not sure about the reasons it might be re-ordering them.  That might be something it does to preserve compatibility with a flaky 3rd party application, or it might be to make re-writing them more efficient in the future, or it might just not be very careful about it.  Matt or someone who knows the ins/outs of Vorbis tagging would probably need to comment here.
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Matt

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Re: Tag questions
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2013, 11:40:38 am »

We're not aware of any recommended ordering of FLAC tags.  We apply a consistent ordering to ID3v2 and APEv2 tags (ID3v2 is based on type and alphabetic, APEv2 is based on tag size).

Maybe a nice future enhancement would be to always sort FLAC tags alphabetically.
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Jamil

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Re: Tag questions
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2013, 12:25:05 pm »

My digital audio library is now restored.  It took me a few hours to get it back to the way it was.  I had to use two different batch taggers to restore it.  I do not want to go through this again, so I made the share of my NAS read-only for my network account.  My admin account has write access, and I will use it to copy new files in.

I'm still not sure what caused this to happen, but I don't want to go through this again.
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