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[nakolawala]

Hello All, this is my first post and need advise from members who have used JRiver MC. I am interested in purchasing the Exasound e18 8 channel dac for tri-amping my speakers. I have searched the web for different solutions but all of them are either very expensive or too cumbersome with a lot of equipment.
The above dac with MC looks simple and straightforward. I need to verify it the following is possible with MC
1. Define multiple crossover (LP and HP) for each channel, define the xover point, the slope and type of filter
2. Define for each channel multiple PEQ for room correction and taming the resonance peaks. Should have control for freq, gain and Q. How many PEQ's can I allocate per channel. Is there a limit
3. Control the gain for each channel for proper balance
4. Some sort of remote vol control using iphone.
Appreciate the feedback
Thanks

[Matt]

Welcome.

JRiver should work well for your purposes.  It can deal with an unlimited number of channels and PEQs per channel (assuming your computer is fast enough).  It supports most any sound device, including the e18.

JRemote is a good choice for the iPhone remote.

[mwillems]

Hello All, this is my first post and need advise from members who have used JRiver MC. I am interested in purchasing the Exasound e18 8 channel dac for tri-amping my speakers. I have searched the web for different solutions but all of them are either very expensive or too cumbersome with a lot of equipment.
The above dac with MC looks simple and straightforward. I need to verify it the following is possible with MC
1. Define multiple crossover (LP and HP) for each channel, define the xover point, the slope and type of filter
2. Define for each channel multiple PEQ for room correction and taming the resonance peaks. Should have control for freq, gain and Q. How many PEQ's can I allocate per channel. Is there a limit
3. Control the gain for each channel for proper balance
4. Some sort of remote vol control using iphone.
Appreciate the feedback
Thanks

Welcome to the forum; I currently bi-amp with JRiver (And love it) and am always glad to see more bi and tri-ampers here.

Some folks have used the Exasound with JRiver and liked it quite a lot, see here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=73027.0

As for your specific EQ questions:

1) JRiver has user configurable crossovers.  You can use two (or more) per channel.  You asked about the "xover point, the slope and type of filter": you can select the crossover point and the slope, but there are some limitations on the types of filters available.  Currently JRiver supports 1st order, 2nd order, 4th order, 6th order, and 8th order butterworth filters.  By extension, those can be used to create 2nd order, 4th order, 8th order, etc. Linkwitz Riley filters.  There is currently no third order butterworth, sixth order linkwitz-riley, or other non-butterworth/LR topographies of crossover filter (bessel, etc.).  Some of these limitations can be overcome by using external filter design software and convolution.

2) JRiver has PEQ with frequency, gain, and Q controls.  All parameters are (to my knowledge) unbounded, and you can create an arbitrary number of PEQ entries per channel (I've used more than 20 per channel at one point).  JRiver also supports shelving filters (i.e. for baffle step correction) and a few other EQ options.

3) Each channel can be levelled individually in JRiver.

4) There's a popular third party iOS app called JRemote that allows control of the software with an iphone: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=79104.0 .  I haven't used it myself (no iphone), but it gets rave reviews here.  JRiver also supports a normal WMC remote, and provides an android app (Gizmo).

EDIT: Matt beat me to the punch  

[nakolawala]

Thanks for the info. Few more questions. I read in this forum that LR filter type is not available in MC, hence is it possible to stack two 2nd order Butterworth to create a 4th order LR. Is it true?. For me 4th order is good enough.

Another one, today I use REW for all of my room measurement. I have a external usb sound card to which I have connected my measurement MIC and its controlled by REW, the output test signal goes into my presently modified DEQ2496 where I can adjust the PEQ for proper response in real time. Now if my DEQ is replaced by e18, how will I be able to measure my room/speakers and adjust the PEQ in real time. Will REW recognized the e18 and preform the room measurements or will MC be able to do room measurement thr e18. Confusing but very necessary
Thanks

[mwillems]

Thanks for the info. Few more questions. I read in this forum that LR filter type is not available in MC, hence is it possible to stack two 2nd order Butterworth to create a 4th order LR. Is it true?. For me 4th order is good enough.

Yes, you can stack two 2nd order butterworths to get a 4th order linkwitz-riley; that's what I do in my system    

Another one, today I use REW for all of my room measurement. I have a external usb sound card to which I have connected my measurement MIC and its controlled by REW, the output test signal goes into my presently modified DEQ2496 where I can adjust the PEQ for proper response in real time. Now if my DEQ is replaced by e18, how will I be able to measure my room/speakers and adjust the PEQ in real time. Will REW recognized the e18 and preform the room measurements or will MC be able to do room measurement thr e18. Confusing but very necessary
Thanks

You can definitely use REW in a setup like this (I use REW myself with a Steinberg UR824 instead of an Exasound).  JRiver doesn't have a built in measurement suite, so you need to use an external measurement program like REW or Holm Impulse.  To my knowledge the Exasound is only a DAC and doesn't have DSP functionality like the DEQ, so JRiver needs to do all the DSP, and you need to route all the audio output through JRiver using the loopback function.  REW wants to output directly to a sound device (which would bypass JRiver), but JRiver's loopback feature will capture the audio stream from REW and redirect it through JRiver's audio chain (once you get it setup). This permits real time adjustment of EQ, just like with the DEQ.  

It takes a minute to get everything set up, but I can confirm that it works for me.  If you need help getting it working ask here and we can talk you through the process. 

I used to use a crossover in a box and since switching to an all digital crossover in JRiver, I've never looked back.

[nakolawala]

Thank you for the info.
I am just trying to understand JRiver and no expert, hence the audio loop back functionality I have no clue how to get it done. My present setup is like this
 
Present setup
                                     usb
Mic --> Tascam us-200 -------> Laptop (REW)
                  |
                  |                 
                  |    RCA
                  V   line in
              DEQ2496  ----->  preamp -----> power amp ----> speakers

Future setup
                                                                           usb                             direct
Mic & us-200 ??                Laptop (REW + JRiver) ---------> Exasound e18 --------> power amp 1 & 2 ----> Woofer/tweeter

Not sure how is the Mic and the us-200 connected. I use the us-200 as mic preamp and +48 V supply. Help would be appreciated how to get it connected and loop back function in JRiver
Thanks
 

[mwillems]

Thank you for the info.
I am just trying to understand JRiver and no expert, hence the audio loop back functionality I have no clue how to get it done. My present setup is like this
 
Present setup
                                     usb
Mic --> Tascam us-200 -------> Laptop (REW)
                  |
                  |                
                  |    RCA
                  V   line in
              DEQ2496  ----->  preamp -----> power amp ----> speakers

Future setup
                                                                           usb                             direct
Mic & us-200 ??                Laptop (REW + JRiver) ---------> Exasound e18 --------> power amp 1 & 2 ----> Woofer/tweeter

Not sure how is the Mic and the us-200 connected. I use the us-200 as mic preamp and +48 V supply. Help would be appreciated how to get it connected and loop back function in JRiver
Thanks
 

You would connect the mic & us-200 through USB the same way you do now.  The loopback in JRiver is a software loopback, not a literal hardware loopback (i.e. you're not connecting an output to an input with a cable).  To use loopback in JRiver here's what you'd do:

1) Set the windows default sound device to something other than the exasound (the TASCAM or your MoBo soundcard).  It doesn't much matter what it is as the loopback will intercept the sound before it gets there (the choice of device shouldn't affect sound quality, but may restrict the sample rates available when using loopback).  Make sure that you have REW set to output to the default soundcard as well.
2) In JRiver you set up the output audio device to go to the sound device that's connected to your speakers (the exasound in this example)
3) You start loopback mode in JRiver by selecting the "Open Live"---> WASAPI Loopback under JRiver's file menu.  The software loopback re-routes the output from whatever device you specified in 1) and plays it back through JRiver's audio chain.  You can use loopback to re-route all system audio through the JRiver audio chain (REW measurements, websites, video games, whatever).

So the input chain would still be: Mic --> Tascam us-200 ----USB---> Laptop (REW)
The physical output chain would be :   Laptop (REW + JRiver) ----USB-----> Exasound e18 ----DIRECT----> power amp 1 & 2 ----> Woofer/tweeter
The "logical" output chain would be : REW ---software----> default soundcard (e.g. Mobo/TASCAM) ----software loopback-----> JRiver ----USB-----> Exasound e18 ----DIRECT----> power amp 1 & 2 ----> Woofer/tweeter

Does that make sense?

[nakolawala]

Thanks for the excellent explanation and it does make sense. Over the next couple of days I will be trying out this setup and report back on my success or not. I still don't have the e18 but I have another multichannel dac to experiment.
Thanks

[nakolawala]

I tried it yesterday exactly as mentioned above and was having problems. In REW it gives me 2 options to select the type of drivers (Java or ASIO). Which one needs to be selected.
Thanks

[mwillems]

I tried it yesterday exactly as mentioned above and was having problems. In REW it gives me 2 options to select the type of drivers (Java or ASIO). Which one needs to be selected.
Thanks

Try Java to start (not all sound devices have ASIO drivers), you should set REW output to your default sound device.

[nakolawala]

I got it working by selection Java as the driver in REW and in JRiver loopback. I used MF V-link 196 as the usb-spdif converter going into my DAC instead of the exasound dac. It worked without any flaws. Thanks for your tips.
One functionality I miss by using in REW the ASIO drivers, I could control the output either to the L or R channel. By using the Java drive, output is from both the channels. Any idea how I can control it, in REW or JRiver. My preamp does not have a balance control.
I do measurement for individual channels at a time.

Another Q, in JRiver how do you assign channels. All I want is 4 channels for bi-amping. How do it designate which one is left, right for woofer/tweeter.
Thanks for your help

 

[mwillems]

I got it working by selection Java as the driver in REW and in JRiver loopback. I used MF V-link 196 as the usb-spdif converter going into my DAC instead of the exasound dac. It worked without any flaws. Thanks for your tips.
One functionality I miss by using in REW the ASIO drivers, I could control the output either to the L or R channel. By using the Java drive, output is from both the channels. Any idea how I can control it, in REW or JRiver. My preamp does not have a balance control.
I do measurement for individual channels at a time.

The easy way to do this is to mute one of the channels in JRiver's DSP studio as needed.  Look under the Parametric Equalizer module.

Another Q, in JRiver how do you assign channels. All I want is 4 channels for bi-amping. How do it designate which one is left, right for woofer/tweeter.
Thanks for your help

Go into JRiver's DSP studio and set the output format as "2 channel (in a 4 channel container)" or as "2 channel (in a 5.1 container)." This will give you two or four additional blank channels.  I use 5.1 just to have some extra blank channels in case I need to do anything fancy.  The extra channels will be labelled as though they were home theater channels (C, Sub, SL, and SR), but don't worry about the labelling.  Under parametric equalizer copy left to SL, and right to SR. I copy  left to SL and right to SR (rather than to C and Sub) so that it's obvious which one is right and which one is left. 

At that point you need to decide which will be the tweeter and which the woofer; I use L and R for the tweeter channels and SL and SR for the woofer channels.  In my example, you would go into parametric equalizer and apply your high passes to L and R, and your lowpasses to SL and SR, and set your delay, do other EQ, etc.

You probably won't be able to get this part working with SPDIF, though, as SPDIF normally only supports two channels.  You'll need a multichannel DAC to test this part out.

[nakolawala]

Excellent, got the muting done right away. Now I have to get my multichannel dac to implement the biamping. Looks like I am all set for biamping using JRiver and exasound.
Thanks for all your help

[mwillems]

Excellent, got the muting done right away. Now I have to get my multichannel dac to implement the biamping. Looks like I am all set for biamping using JRiver and exasound.
Thanks for all your help

Glad to help, and it sounds like you're well on your way.  Hope everything stays smooth sailing