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[awerna]

Using Wimp losless streaming service for quite a while now I'd really would like to be able to run it in MC.

I'm almost sure there must be more Wimp users out there, at least in Europe.

Edit:
Well, it might be unknown in the US - here is a link if you haven't heard about it: http://magazine.wimp.no/2013/09/wimp-hifi-lossless-music-streaming/

[Trumpetguy]

Right now it's no use. Wimp hifi is not available on pc or mac, only handhelds, Bluesound and sonos. It will eventually, though, according to wimp officials. Excellent streaming service, too bad it is very regionally limited pr date.

[awerna]

This is not true. I use it on my PC here in my company and on my Sonos System at home.

[Arindelle]

Thanks for the link -- a direct competitor to Qobuz in France. Funny Wimp seems to only stream lossless to portables and lossy to PCs/Macs and Qubuz only streams lossless to PCs and Macs and not to portables.

One of the many issues is that they make "arrangements" with companies like sonos and their API is not free. There are also regional issues as Trumpetguy points out.  I think they make more out of licensing fees than they do from other sources. Although Qobuz does have a large flac and some high rez store which is starting to be successful.

here's their UK link if you haven't heard of them Qobuz-in english

They should join forces  before bigger companies gobble them up Wimp has scandanavia and Germany Qobuz has Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, UK, Ireland, Austria, Switzerland and appears to "share" Germany with Wimp

[Trumpetguy]

This is not true. I use it on my PC here in my company and on my Sonos System at home.

I wish it was so. Wimp is of course available on PC/Mac (I use it regularly and uses MC loopback feature to play through MC), but not the lossless hifi streaming service. This was a big discussion when Wimp hifi was released last fall. On Wimp web site, it says: Wimp HIFI is available on iOS, Android, Sonos, Bluesound, Squeezebox og AirPlay. You will see this by choosing streaming quality on your computer, "hifi" is not an option there.

But, that said, having Wimp integrated into MC would be awesome, lossless or not!

[Trumpetguy]

Thanks for the link -- a direct competitor to Qobuz in France. Funny Wimp seems to only stream lossless to portables and lossy to PCs/Macs and Qubuz only streams lossless to PCs and Macs and not to portables.

That must be because Qobuz made some intelligent choices before starting their service. I mean, why would you NOT provide lossless to the only platforms where a real hifi system is possible? Wimp officials where somewhat annoyed when I pointed this out on their discussion forum last fall....

[awerna]

Thanks for the link -- a direct competitor to Qobuz in France. Funny Wimp seems to only stream lossless to portables and lossy to PCs/Macs and Qubuz only streams lossless to PCs and Macs and not to portables.

Thanks for this tip. Never heard about it.  I just wanted to sign up but the service is not available in Germany yet. Even using Zenmate in Chrome doesn't work,  my PayPal payment doesn't go through.

Anyhow - having Wimp and/or Queue included in MC would be awesome.

I would even pay for an option to be able to have it as a service if it's too expensive for Mc to get access. If these services are too expensive and not every user is using multiple streaming services why not charge a small amount per user if you want a streaming service? More services could be offered this way.
As there will be more and more services offered in the future it could probably help us users and MC?

I have no idea how this system works so I might be totally wrong...

[Arindelle]

Thanks for this tip. Never heard about it.  I just wanted to sign up but the service is not available in Germany yet.

this might help for germany => Qobuz-De for other countries go to the bottom of the page and choose another country.

their "boutique" has, I think, become one of the largest online collection of flac recordings, much larger than HD Tracks pour info =>. http://www.qobuz.com/. They have a lot 4000+ hi rez 24 bit recordings which are on sale or the same price as redbook. Redbook cds for my money are cheaper to purchase from amazon and rip them. However, getting direct access from european sites outside the french site seems to be difficult (at least with my french IP). If you live in the countries listed however, a post on the Naim forums http://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/qobuz-uk-restrictions-lifted-if tells you how to contact them to change your account settings so you can buy their digital catalogue -- they are behind in their website programming apparently

[awerna]

(I use it regularly and uses MC loopback feature to play through MC

Maybe a dumb question but how do you do this? I'd love to do this as well.

[Arindelle]

Maybe a dumb question but how do you do this? I'd love to do this as well.

its not dumb (but you didn't search the forum very hard  ) and its actually sort of a PITA

start here http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=70242.0 - its no longer experimental, but it doesn't always work (won't work for Qobuz with flac streaming at present) depends on site's design and if there are pop-up or not. You do need two devices though (you can use the mobo on board sound output if you are not using it already)

[mwillems]

its not dumb (but you didn't search the forum very hard  ) and its actually sort of a PITA

start here http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=70242.0 - its no longer experimental, but it doesn't always work (won't work for Qobuz with flac streaming at present) depends on site's design and if there are pop-up or not. You do need two devices though (you can use the mobo on board sound output if you are not using it already)

Interesting; I've never encountered an audio stream that couldn't be looped back somehow. Does loopback with Qobuz FLAC streaming work when you load Qobuz in an external browser?

In my experience loopback works much better if you're using an external browser rather than trying to load webpages inside JRiver.  That nerfs the idea of using theater view for everything, but if you're willing to use an external browser, you can loopback pretty much anything.

[Arindelle]

Interesting; I've never encountered an audio stream that couldn't be looped back somehow. Does loopback with Qobuz FLAC streaming work when you load Qobuz in an external browser?

That the problem -- Qobuz will load in a browser, but you can't stream flac thah way. You have to use their desktop application (well their might be another way but it not through loopback ). You can run loopback to stream their stuff in Mp3 though. Another example is NPR which has some great stuff ... here the probleme is different, their api which is public btw, opens up their own player in a different window. You could stream a particular audio url eventually, but you would have to load their player to find the real link which defeats the purpose of browsing what you want to listen too. Streaming video is the same problem in that most of the times they link you to a separate site (and without addblock good luck) - the time you recover the URL might as well just stream it through the browser by passing jriver which is too bad. Might be possible to set up url playlists I heard but haven't tried that yet

In my experience loopback works much better if you're using an external browser rather than trying to load webpages inside JRiver.  That nerfs the idea of using theater view for everything, but if you're willing to use an external browser, you can loopback pretty much anything.

Totally agree, but you lose the DSP engine don't you? I always do?! I wish you could just use Connected Media in standard view as it is so much easier to use and doesn't require a separate device either (which I don't have right now anyway^^). I'd also like to use my mouse and right click in Theater View like in version 16  ) But hey, progress is in the works I think

[mwillems]

Totally agree, but you lose the DSP engine don't you? I always do?! I wish you could just use Connected Media in standard view as it is so much easier to use and doesn't require a separate device either (which I don't have right now anyway^^). I'd also like to use my mouse and right click in Theater View like in version 16  ) But hey, progress is in the works I think

 

I don't ever lose the DSP engine (my speakers don't work at all without the DSP engine), and web popup windows work just fine for me (including NPR).  Even other music players/apps work just fine (I can loopback Amazon's cloud player for instance if I want to).  

I'm not sure why your setup works so differently from mine, but it might be that you're trying to use it with only one device (are you using your MoBo sound right now?). I'm guessing that's why you're having trouble. If you have a second device, you just set that device as your system default and all system sound (from whatever source, even web popup players) can be looped back and fed through JRiver DSP.

Also, I'm not sure I follow why it matters what the URL of the service is if you're opening it outside of JRiver?  Loopback is opened the same way no matter what, right?  You can just start loopback in JRiver, and then navigate to whatever you want to listen to in the external browser/program and it will play, or does that not work in your setup?

[Arindelle]

@Mwillems -- I went on about Connected media not working , not loopback

I wish you could just use Connected Media in standard view as it is so much easier to use and doesn't require a separate device either (which I don't have right now anyway^^)

as I don't have a separate device available anymore. Must have been a little "looped" myself and  changed the subject 

ANYWAY when I did I still had problems with NPR LOL .... this is embarrassing -- I'm going to hide now

[mwillems]

@Mwillems -- I went on about Connected media not working , not loopback
 as I don't have a separate device available anymore. Must have been a little "looped" myself and  changed the subject 

ANYWAY when I did I still had problems with NPR LOL .... this is embarrassing -- I'm going to hide now

Got it, that all makes more sense to me now!  Sorry for being dense 

[Trumpetguy]

Totally agree, but you lose the DSP engine don't you? I always do?! I wish you could just use Connected Media in standard view as it is so much easier to use and doesn't require a separate device either (which I don't have right now anyway^^). I'd also like to use my mouse and right click in Theater View like in version 16  ) But hey, progress is in the works I think

No, using loopback on any audio stream (I've encoutered) gives access to all signal functionality in MC. I run a variety of DSPs depending on application. The only issue I know of is audio-video sync. Not a big problem if you do not run much DSP, but when using convolution it is not possible to get a/v sync. For audio only, though, even convolution is ok in MC19 (there were problems with stuttering earlier).

[mwillems]

No, using loopback on any audio stream (I've encoutered) gives access to all signal functionality in MC. I run a variety of DSPs depending on application. The only issue I know of is audio-video sync. Not a big problem if you do not run much DSP, but when using convolution it is not possible to get a/v sync. For audio only, though, even convolution is ok in MC19 (there were problems with stuttering earlier).

Actually if your convolution filters are short enough it's possible to even get loopback lip-synced.  If all you're doing is mild phase manipulation (e.g. linearizing the phase of a passive crossoveror something) it's possible to do what you need with a 500 or a 1000 tap filter. At a 44K sampling rate that's only between 5 and 10ms of added latency, which is within the "acceptable" range for lipsync synchronization (I use a 500 tap filter in my loopback zone). 

Once you get past 1500 or 2000 taps though, you're right, it's a lost cause.

[Trumpetguy]

Actually if your convolution filters are short enough it's possible to even get loopback lip-synced.  If all you're doing is mild phase manipulation (e.g. linearizing the phase of a passive crossoveror something) it's possible to do what you need with a 500 or a 1000 tap filter. At a 44K sampling rate that's only between 5 and 10ms of added latency, which is within the "acceptable" range for lipsync synchronization (I use a 500 tap filter in my loopback zone). 

Once you get past 1500 or 2000 taps though, you're right, it's a lost cause.

Of course, you're right. I never bothered testing short filters for some reason, so I didn't think of that. That said, I find even 10ms off-sync a bit annoying.

But now we are quite far off topic here, aren't we?

[Arindelle]

But now we are quite far off topic here, aren't we?

yes indeed .. time to cease and desist or start another thread guys 

[audunth]

WIMP Hifi (lossless) is now also available for PC/Mac also. The reason they waited with PC/Mac is to get in place the security needed to prevent people from storing the lossless music on their computer. Complete BS if you ask me, but at least that's what their officials said.

Would be absolutely awesome if WIMP could be integrated into MC, but since they're so concerned with preventing download, I guess the chances are slim...

[DeVille]

+1 for Wimp