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[The Grudge]

Just wanted to report/seek feedback on a bug that I have found (or I consider it likely to be a bug) with my version 18. First to report on the environment it runs in. I am using a decent Dell desktop running Win 7 through a Schiit Gungnir DAC with the newest version 2 USB interface and that uses a C-Media chip for the USB. I run it in WASAPI Event Mode (although the mode makes no difference with the issue as I have tested using ASIO). Anyway here is the problem which is hard to describe, but I will try.

When I use headphones, during quiet passages I could detect a faint, but nonetheless noticeable little digital artifact. When there would be music playing, you could hear a series of little high rate, high frequency ticks and pops that would start trail off with the music. Very noticeable. Of course when the music got louder, you would not notice these artifacts, but now that I was attuned to detecting them, they were audible even then. I have managed to isolate the culprit, it was having more than one frequency being adjusted at once with the built in parametric EQ. I had very modest cuts for three frequencies that helped with my headphones (Denon D7000 for any headphone nuts on this site). I know it is the DSP because when I tested the same music, same everything through (shudder) Windows Media Player there was absolutely no trace of the issue. If I eliminate all but one frequency adjustment through the DSP, the artifacts are gone in JRiver, add a second frequency adjustment, bingo, the problem is back. I am confident that this is a DSP issue. I will test using EasyQ, which is a third-party pluggin I just installed last night, but didn't have time to test.

I really hope this fixes the issue or I will have to return to Foobar, but I love JRiver and would be quite sad to have to stop using it. I wonder if anybody else here could test to see if they experience anything similar. Cheers.

[mwillems]

Just wanted to report/seek feedback on a bug that I have found (or I consider it likely to be a bug) with my version 18. First to report on the environment it runs in. I am using a decent Dell desktop running Win 7 through a Schiit Gungnir DAC with the newest version 2 USB interface and that uses a C-Media chip for the USB. I run it in WASAPI Event Mode (although the mode makes no difference with the issue as I have tested using ASIO). Anyway here is the problem which is hard to describe, but I will try.

When I use headphones, during quiet passages I could detect a faint, but nonetheless noticeable little digital artifact. When there would be music playing, you could hear a series of little high rate, high frequency ticks and pops that would start trail off with the music. Very noticeable. Of course when the music got louder, you would not notice these artifacts, but now that I was attuned to detecting them, they were audible even then. I have managed to isolate the culprit, it was having more than one frequency being adjusted at once with the built in parametric EQ. I had very modest cuts for three frequencies that helped with my headphones (Denon D7000 for any headphone nuts on this site). I know it is the DSP because when I tested the same music, same everything through (shudder) Windows Media Player there was absolutely no trace of the issue. If I eliminate all but one frequency adjustment through the DSP, the artifacts are gone in JRiver, add a second frequency adjustment, bingo, the problem is back. I am confident that this is a DSP issue. I will test using EasyQ, which is a third-party pluggin I just installed last night, but didn't have time to test.

I really hope this fixes the issue or I will have to return to Foobar, but I love JRiver and would be quite sad to have to stop using it. I wonder if anybody else here could test to see if they experience anything similar. Cheers.

I use a lot of parametric EQ filters in JRiver for my homebrew speakers (I'm talking like 40 filter stages), and I've never heard the issue you're describing.  I also do a lot of A/Bing with different DSP settings in different systems, including a variety of headphones, so I'm intrigued by your results.  Some questions/additional troubleshooting steps that might point to a solution:

1) You say output mode makes no difference, but I'm curious if you tried direct sound.  I ask because Windows Media Player uses direct sound for it's output.  If direct sound makes the problem go away, that might help to zero in on the issue.
2) I think you mention your DSP were cuts, but just to confirm, were you using any DSP/EQ that adds boost?
3) What volume settings are you using in JRiver (internal/system/etc.)?
4) Do you experience the same issues with all sample rates?  Does playing a redbook CD sound any different than HD recordings?

[The Grudge]

Never thought to try direct sound, but I will, however, I really want bitperfect and I don't think direct sound is bitperfect. None of my filters are boost, all gentle cuts. My files are almost all rips from my CD collection into Apple Lossless and I don' think I have any HD tracks on hand. I have the internal volume turned off if I remember correctly as that was the advice I read when using bitperfect playback modes. I really appreciate you showing some interest in my problem. I'm just now getting home and going to try a few things including the new EQ I have. Thanks again, much appreciated.

[The Grudge]

No, it is some kind of weird interaction problem with the built in parametric EQ in JRiver 18. The moment I enabled and used EasyQ (which is free by the way, and a better interface as well) the problem disappears. If I go back to the built in parametric, bingo, the problem returns without failure. Who knows, maybe there is some kind of issue between JRiver's EQ and the drivers for my DAC. Regardless, I won't bother spending more time trying to bang a square peg into a round hole, EasyQ is working great and it sounds fantastic.

[crisnee]

I agree re EasyQ. It's a fantastic EQ, particularly because it is so visual as to how it effects the frequency response.

Chris

[mwillems]

No, it is some kind of weird interaction problem with the built in parametric EQ in JRiver 18. The moment I enabled and used EasyQ (which is free by the way, and a better interface as well) the problem disappears. If I go back to the built in parametric, bingo, the problem returns without failure. Who knows, maybe there is some kind of issue between JRiver's EQ and the drivers for my DAC. Regardless, I won't bother spending more time trying to bang a square peg into a round hole, EasyQ is working great and it sounds fantastic.

I'm glad you found a working solution; if you still have any interest in troubleshooting the problem, I'd be curious if direct sound does make it go away (not because direct sound is a good option, but because it might help explain why WMP didn't have any problems). 

I'm not sure why EasyQ would work better than the PEQ, but if you wouldn't mind posting a screen capture of your previous DSP/PEQ settings, I'd like to try and see if I can replicate your result over here. 

Obviously, no worries if you're just glad to have it working and don't want to mess around with troubleshooting now that there's no trouble 

[The Grudge]

For sure I will try to troubleshoot with you. I love JRiver and realise how hard it is to produce such a killer application. Anything I can do to help I will. Perhaps when I get back today I will have a few minutes. Cheers.

[mwillems]

For sure I will try to troubleshoot with you. I love JRiver and realise how hard it is to produce such a killer application. Anything I can do to help I will. Perhaps when I get back today I will have a few minutes. Cheers.

Thanks for that, I'll check back later.  Just FYI, I'm not a dev, just a concerned citizen.  I use JRiver as pre-amp/active crossover so I have a vested interest in making sure the PEQ settings work as well as they can  

[kstuart]

Try my settings for Bifrost/Gungnir which are in this thread, and see if it fixes the problem:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=86075.0

[sKiZo]

Must be you got it fixed?

Just thought I'd mention, the pops and clicks are usually due to timing issues. Mine was doing it big time, and the solution was to install a USB expansion card that was self powered and created it's own channel. Too much interference from all the other USB devices apparently. Only thing plugged into the expansion card is the DAC and ADC now.

Granted, not a solution for a laptop, but mayhaps you have the same issues with crosstalk from other devices? I tracked mine down to a wireless keyboard and mouse.

PS ... thanx for the heads up on EasyQ ... looks interesting. Have to give it a go.