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[jctcom]

Ok I was about to perform an uninstall / re-install when I thought I should post here first just in case 1.  There is an easier way to fix this and 2. Even with a backup there could be other issues getting me back to where I was.

I am getting errors like below even for basic 2 Ch. 44.1KHz files now.  It basically won't play anything via my HDMI Audio output (Using WASAPI).



I have tested with Foobar2000 (Using WASAPI) and I can play every variation I tested except for the 88.2KHz and 176.4KHz (Which I understand is a common thing for Computer HDMI audio).  I was even able to play my quad tracks (More on that once we get the basics resolved).

So is there a quick and safe way for me to re-install the JRiver WASAPI drivers?  or is it just as well to uninstall and re-install the program completely?

Thanks.

Carl.

[glynor]

That's probably a misconfiguration.

Is Exclusive mode on in the WASAPI device options under Options > Audio?

Without that, you'll get that error whenever you play a file whose format doesn't exactly match the mode selected in the Windows Sound control panel (unless you use the DSP to re sample everything to match).

You want exclusive mode.  If it doesn't work for some reason, then you have to take other steps or use DirectSound (yuck).

[jctcom]

Also cause I know it is going to be asked.
Here are my:

Driver Selected:



Device Settings:



and  DSP settings:



Again any help much appreciated.

Carl.

[jctcom]

I was using WASAPI with this before.  The only issue I had was with Quad Channel stuff and of course the 88.2 / 176.4KHz stuff.

Something has changed.  For one thing my NVida HDMI WASAPI used to show up with my TV name in there instead of the Onkyo Receiver (Which I always found a bit strange but it worked).  now it shows up like I think it always should have but doesn't work.

As far as having to use another sound option.  Why don't I need to do that in Foobar2000. 
It works fine there using their "WASAPI (push): TX-NR1008-4 (NVIDIA High Definition Audio)"

Not sure what the "(push)" part is about.  But the rest is what I would expect for that card going to my receiver.

Carl.

[jctcom]

If I perform and "Uninstall" and then a "Re-install" will it reconnect to the library automatically?  Or will I have to import from the backup.

Also what about the laptop computer and iPHone that connect to it.  Will I have to reconnect them?  or will the new install be the same and they will pick it up automatically?

Carl.

[glynor]

Set Bitdepth back to Automatic.

I don't know why you have the play silence on DOP Stop enabled.  That is non default and shouldn't be enabled unless you know you'll need it.  Also, you'll probable be better served by setting the channels to your actual number of connected speakers in the DSP.  You can select no up mixing or downmixing if you're so inclined (or use JRSS and enable the option to only mix stereo sources to 2.1 would be better), but it'd be better to have this set right.  Otherwise it'll do weird things with mono formats and stuff like that.

But the issue is the Bitdepth setting probably.  Don't set that explicitly unless you have a good reason.  MC will do the best possible thing unless the driver is broken or something weird.  That's a workaround, not a quality setting.

[glynor]

If you really want to do that, just:

1. Make a Library Backup.
2. Uncheck both of the options (save the Library files and the registry settings) during the uninstall.
3. Reboot after you uninstall.

But I don't think that will help.  Do my other suggestions first.

[jctcom]

The whole point of this (For me) is to have unaltered audio out to my receiver.  I don't want my Quad stuff going out as 5.1 which is what would happen with changing the source number of channels.

My receiver does a very nice job of up-converting the stereo stuff to 5.1 (or 7.1) and when it detects a 4.0 / 4.1 / 5.1 source it automatically leaves that alone an plays it in it's raw state.

Changing the Bitdepth to "Automatic" makes it put everything in 24Bit (Padded) or something like that and alters the signal when it does not need to be altered for my DAC as seen below with Foobar it plays just fine set to 24-Bit.



The DoP setting probably got changed when I was trying to get this to work.  I will disable it now to see if it makes a difference.

Carl.

[pauly139]

I am getting the exact same error with this last release. It was playing fine via my HDMI output, now it won't play with WASAPI. I had to set it to DirectSound to get it working again. Note I never changed any settings between it working on the prior release, and it not working now.

[jctcom]

Per glynor's suggestion above setting the bitdepth to "Automatic" does seem to work.  But really "Automatic (Recommended for best sound quality" actually seems to mean  "Will will just lower the settings till we find something we can work with".

and there is no reason why I should need to lower it below 24-Bit since both my sound card and DAC support it fully.  (Except as previously mentioned with the 88.2 and 176.4KHz stuff).

Carl.

[glynor]

Which prior release?

Do you also have an Nvidia card?

Push mode is the other option if you don't use WASAPI Event Style.  I think Event Style works fine with Nvidia hardware, though I'm on AMD so I can't directly comment.  Event Style is generally more reliable, but you can try disabling it, since you're using it in in Push mode in Foobar.

Avoiding padding is ridiculous as it does not alter the sound data at all.  It adds zeroes only.  00000001 is the same number as 00000000000000000001.  Automatic provides the best possible unaltered quality without degrading sound quality.

There have been some changes in the setup here, but they've been to make it easier to set up correctly and wet e done a long time ago.  If you just upgraded from a very old version, some things might be new...

I don't know if there's some bug in the very most recent builds, but I know the developers have mostly Nvidia hardware, so...  It works here, but I'm on AMD.

[glynor]

Per glynor's suggestion above setting the bitdepth to "Automatic" does seem to work.  But really "Automatic (Recommended for best sound quality" actually seems to mean  "Will will just lower the settings till we find something we can work with".

and there is no reason why I should need to lower it below 24-Bit since both my sound card and DAC support it fully.  (Except as previously mentioned with the 88.2 and 176.4KHz stuff).

Carl.

That's not what it does.

It uses the best possible Bitdepth setting available at a given sample rate as specified by the device's driver.  If it isn't working right, make sure the driver is reporting the settings you're trying g to use as available in the a windows control panel, or explain specifics.

[jctcom]

Push mode is the other option if you don't use WASAPI Event Style.  I think Event Style works fine with Nvidia hardware, though I'm on AMD so I can't directly comment.  Event Style is generally more reliable, but you can try disabling it, since you're using it in in Push mode in Foobar.

Where can I Disable "Event Style"?

Avoiding padding is ridiculous as it does not alter the sound data at all.  It adds zeroes only.  00000001 is the same number as 00000000000000000001.  Automatic provides the best possible unaltered quality without degrading sound quality.

Then why is it that I never get the "Blue" indicator that says I have a true unaltered signal going to the receiver when I have it set to "Automatic".  Also it does not play my Quad stuff in 4.0 but has to either downgrade it to stereo or upgrade it to 5.1 for some reason.

Carl
Edit: Actually the "Automatic" setting doesn't help with the Quad stuff.  MC just doesn't want to play them and insists on changing them to 2.0 in order to play them.

Carl.

[jctcom]

Currently playing some 5.1 / 96Khz.  On "Automatic" it automatically converts it to 2.0 / 96Khz.

I Manually changed it back to "Source Number Of Channels" and restarted that song.  It is now playing in 5.1 / 96Khz.  with 24Bit (Padded) but at least now the DSP Icon is blue. 

Not sure why it changed it to 2.0  (Unless it was left over from the previously playing 4.0 track that would not play except in 2.0).

Carl.

[jctcom]

That's not what it does.

It uses the best possible Bitdepth setting available at a given sample rate as specified by the device's driver.  If it isn't working right, make sure the driver is reporting the settings you're trying g to use as available in the a windows control panel, or explain specifics.

I have tested in the windows audio control panel all channel variations (Stereo, Quadraphonic, Surround, 5.1 and 7.1) and windows under that sound card is listing 44.1 / 48.0 / 96.0 and 192.0kHz as available sample rates and under Bit Depths it shows: 16-Bit and 24-Bit as supported.  The default format under advanced is set to and tested at 24Bit, 192000 Hz (Studio Quality).  So there isn't anything in "Windows" that is telling JR that it can't handle any of those formats.

In any case I thought the whole point of WASAPI and ASIO was to bypass Windows sound drivers and settings (Though I guess what you are saying is the MC looks at the windows settings to devine what the sound card is supposed to be capable of)?

Carl.

[Hendrik]

Many tools automatically pad 24-bit output over HDMI, and never tell you, like foobar. 24-bit padded is just plain 24-bit, there is no difference for the audio.

Quad is a limitation of NVIDIA HDMI, it simply does not support 4 channels, you can either use 2 or 6, or even 8 if you want, but 4 is not supported. Nothing MC can do can change that.

[jctcom]

Many tools automatically pad 24-bit output over HDMI, and never tell you, like foobar. 24-bit padded is just plain 24-bit, there is no difference for the audio.

Quad is a limitation of NVIDIA HDMI, it simply does not support 4 channels, you can either use 2 or 6, or even 8 if you want, but 4 is not supported. Nothing MC can do can change that.

Then why can I play the Quad stuff via Foobar and it plays and sends the Quad signal just fine via the same sound card?

Also in the Audio Contol Panel for the Nvidia HDMI it shows the "Quadraphonic" as one of the test options and it works fine there as well.

Carl.

[jctcom]

Push mode is the other option if you don't use WASAPI Event Style.  I think Event Style works fine with Nvidia hardware, though I'm on AMD so I can't directly comment.  Event Style is generally more reliable, but you can try disabling it, since you're using it in in Push mode in Foobar.

Where can I Disable "Event Style"?

[/quote]

Glynor.  I have tested the "Event" WASAPI setting in Foobar and it works as well.  But can you still tell me how or where to disable "Event Style" in MC in case that makes a difference?

Thanks.

Carl.

[6233638]

Nvidia's HDMI driver does not support native 24-bit inputs, it must be padded to 32-bit.
I am fairly sure that this is true of all HDMI implementations, as  I seem to recall reading it in one of the HDMI spec sheets.
 
It's likely the same thing with 4.0 - Foobar will almost certainly be padding it to a 5.1 signal.
You do not need to disable Event Style. Nvidia's HDMI driver works great with it.
 
 
Media Center is more literal about what your output options do than many other players, which do things in the background without telling you.

[jctcom]

Nvidia's HDMI driver does not support native 24-bit inputs, it must be padded to 32-bit.
I am fairly sure that this is true of all HDMI implementations, as  I seem to recall reading it in one of the HDMI spec sheets.
 
Same thing with 4.0 - Foobar will almost certainly be padding it to a 5.1 signal.
You do not need to disable Event Style. Nvidia's HDMI driver works great with it.
 
 
Media Center is more literal about what your output options do than many other players, which do things in the background without telling you.

In Foobar2000 when I play a 4.0 track my receiver shows the incoming signal as 4.0 and the outgoing as 4.1.  When I test the "Quadraphonic" sound option in the Audio control panel my receiver shows the same.  When it is a 4.0 signal (Or any other for that matter) padded in a 5.1 2 things happen.  First off my receiver shows the incoming signal as 5.1.  Second the sound gets sent to all 5.1 speakers and not just the 4 (Plus Sub routed by receiver) that I get in Foobar.

Have any of you actually tried Foobar to play any quad tracks?  Are there any other programs that I can test with that bypass the windows drivers that might show what you are saying?

Carl.

[jctcom]

In all honesty I wouldn't mind so much if there was a way to tell MC to adjust only the Quad tracks as needed.  But there isn't any way to do that without it affecting all of the tracks as the setting "For Stereo Sources only Mix to 2.1" sends the signal out in the aforementioned 5.1 package.  There should be a setting that says "For Stereo Sources do nothing".  Then I could use the 5.1 channels option to upgrade the few Quad tracks that I have without affecting the 2.0 or the 5.1 tracks.

I only have about 10 or 12 albums in Quad and if I really want to I can always fire up Foobar to listen to them in Quad, but I don't want to exclude them from my smart playlists.

But without using the upgrade everything to 5.1 option MC stops every-time it comes to a Quad track to ask you to downgrade it to stereo.

Carl.

[Hendrik]

I found the reason for the issue, it appears the WASAPI output was using a "wrong" channel mask for 4 channel output, which caused the audio driver to refuse the format.
After I changed it to use the default Quad channel mask, it seems to work.

Going to test a bit more on various devices to make sure, but other WASAPI implementations also seem to use the Quad mask (which is 2 front + 2 back, and MC previously used 2 front + 2 side)
Over HDMI this has no effect on the final audio anyway, since there is no channel mask transmitted.

[jctcom]

I found the reason for the issue, it appears the WASAPI output was using a "wrong" channel mask for 4 channel output, which caused the audio driver to refuse the format.
After I changed it to use the default Quad channel mask, it seems to work.

I'm not sure what this means?  Does it mean we may get 4.0 playback in a future build of MC?  

Carl.

[Hendrik]

Yes, it should work in the future.

[jctcom]

Yes, it should work in the future.

That is great news!  Can't wait as that would resolve my biggest issue with MC so I won't have to exclude my Quad tracks from my auto generated playlists.
 
Still not sure about this padded stuff but with the "Auto" setting MC says direct connection (Blue DSP) for everything except the 88.2 / 176.4KHz stuff.  And not a big deal to force those into 96 / 192KHz.

I was able to leave the bitdepth setting to 24Bit Integer before with only issues playing 5.1/96KHz (and of course the Quad stuff).  Now it won't play anything.  Not even basic stereo 44.1 Khz so something has definitely changed there.

I'm not saying it will make a huge difference over the "Automatic" setting now that I am trying it.  Just that something has changed to make it not work at all anymore where as it used to before.

Carl.

[Hendrik]

You can also force it to 24-bit padded if you prefer that, thats most likely going to be the mode that foobar2000 uses when you set it to 24-bit.
Its a common thing for HDMI, that 24-bit audio cannot be transported as-is, but needs to be wrapped in a 32-bit container for data alignment purposes (4 byte is prettier than 3 byte, being a multiple of 2 and everything)

[6233638]

I was able to leave the bitdepth setting to 24Bit Integer before

Media Center used to silently switch between 24-bit and 24-bit padded depending on what the hardware required.
Sometimes I wonder if it should return to that behavior, as this seems to come up every few weeks.
 
Personally, I prefer that it does actually tell you what is happening though. (and would like it to do the same with ASIO)

[jctcom]

Well for some reason I am hung up on that little Blue DSP icon.  hehe.

So I guess if I get my Quad stuff playing properly right now I have the stereo and 5.1 stuff showing up with the Blue DSP.  Only the 88.2 and 176.4 KHz stuff does not but it never did and I don't have very many of those.  Mostly 2 Ch  24Bit/96KHz, 2 Ch 24Bit/192KHz and 5.1 Ch 24Bit/96Khz stuff.

The Quad stuff wouldn't have been a big deal either except that it stopped the playback alltogether or forced me to set everything to ouput in 5.1 package (Or wrapper or whatever you call it).

So I will be a happy camper when the Quad fix comes through.  At least I know they are looking at it now.

Carl.

[Hendrik]

Media Center used to silently switch between 24-bit and 24-bit padded depending on what the hardware required.

Thats what the automatic setting is for.

[jctcom]

Thats what the automatic setting is for.

But still something has changed. Before I used to be able to play most of my music with the "24-Bit Integer" setting.  Now I can't play anything at all unless I put it to "Automatic".  Not even basic stereo 44.1KHz stuff.

Carl.

[Hendrik]

The whole bitdepth selection was re-written a while ago, automatic handles all magic, the explicit modes  don't do *any* magic, so if they don't work, they don't work.
Previously there was no automatic mode, so 24-bit had a bit of magic backed in to also try 24-bit padded, that magic was moved into the automatic mode instead.

Your HDMI connection simply doesn't support pure 24-bit mode, it requires 24-bit padded. Its as simple as that. Other players switch between the two silently without telling you, but the output is the same regardless.

99.9% of people should just leave it on automatic, it'll ensure the best format is always used. If you go mess with the options, you better know what you're doing.

[6233638]

Thats what the automatic setting is for.

Yes - I was pointing out that before the automatic setting was introduced, you simply selected "24-bit" and it would silently switch between 24-bit and 24-bit padded.
 
A lot of people seem to misunderstand what "padded" means, or why Media center is outputting 24-bit with their 16-bit files etc.

But still something has changed. Before I used to be able to play most of my music with the "24-Bit Integer" setting.  Now I can't play anything at all unless I put it to "Automatic".  Not even basic stereo 44.1KHz stuff.

As I said in my previous post, Media Center used to silently switch between 24-bit and 24-bit padded when you selected "24-bit" as your output.
Now that there is an "Automatic" setting which does this, if you choose to manually override that, it will only use the format you specify.
 
If you choose a format that your hardware does not support, i.e. sending 24-bit over HDMI, it will not play.

[jctcom]

Let me ask something. 

Before when it "Silently switched to Padding".  If you hovered you mouse over the DSP icon did it always say as it does now

eg.  "96KHz 24bit (padded) 6ch Using WASAPI (Direct Connection)"    with the "(padded)" indicated in the Output?

or was it silent there as well?

Carl

[6233638]

Media Center never indicated whether the signal was being padded or not until I bugged Matt about it.