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[Boldlygo]

I am trying to determine the best sound quality when ripping a cd into JR. I am currently using DSD (64fs/ 2.8MHz). I can find no description of this encoder on the JRiverWiki site, or on this forum.
When I ripped all my CDs a while ago before I bought JR, I used AIFF in iTunes. This is how the majority of my CD library exists. Only with new CD purchases and using JR am I ripping with DSD.
So the ultimate question is - which encoder to use?

[glynor]

Redbook audio CDs?

You want PCM (so NOT DSD)... FLAC, AIFF, WAV, and APE would all be identical.  The only differences are in storage requirements and convenience of the container (what tags it supports, etc).  All four of these will output exactly identical data from what was originally on the disc, so it is not possible for there to be a better "quality" rip than that.

I'm reasonably sure that DSD only makes sense for things originally encoded that way.  Otherwise, you are just degrading the quality because it is PCM on-disc, ripped that way, and then converted to DSD, which would introduce a generational loss.  I think in this case it would be miniscule/irrelevant, but why bother, since the native format of a redbook CD is PCM?

You can't "add quality" that isn't there in the original.  You can only accurately preserve the original, and standard audio CDs are PCM.  SACDs are a different beast, of course, and here it may make sense.

[Boldlygo]

When you say Redbook, I am using CDs purchased at stores. This particular CD is a new release from Diana Panton. I also have many high-Rez CDs (K2HD, DXD, SACD, etc). Are there CDs I would have that aren't  Redbook? (sorry for the ignorance)

I'm just trying to find out the best encoder to use. If DSD was better, I would consider re-ripping my library.

[jctcom]

  SACDs are a different beast, of course, and here it may make sense.

There isn't actually a way to Rip SACD's directly into MC right?  Only SACD.iso?

I would gladly purchase a drive if I needed to and it would support that!  (I am assuming that the PS3 method is not done directly in MC but via some other software?)

Carl.

[glynor]

From Wikipedia:

The Red Book specifies the physical parameters and properties of the CD, the optical "stylus" parameters, deviations and error rate, modulation system (eight-to-fourteen modulation, EFM) and error correction facility (cross-interleaved Reed–Solomon coding, CIRC), and the eight subcode channels. These parameters are common to all compact discs and used by all logical formats, such as CD-ROM. The standard also specifies the form of digital audio encoding: 2-channel signed 16-bit Linear PCM sampled at 44,100 Hz.

Standard audio CDs that will play on a regular CD player are redbook CDs.

SACDs are something else, and these discs require a special player to play.  You cannot rip a SACD using a standard PC CD-ROM drive (or DVD drive or whatever).  I believe most people use a Playstation rigged up to their computers somehow to do this?

DXD is, if a disc is advertised this way, sometimes a reference to the way the disc was mastered (and has nothing to do with the content of the disc, which is just regular audio) and sometimes means SACD.  DXD really refers to an audio mastering format, and not something relevant to an end-user, though they use this in marketing now sometimes (but it is vague).

I've never heard of K2HD, so I can't help you with that.

But, the basic deal is: If the disc will play on a regular-old CD player, like the ones you'd have in a PC or in an AV Rack, and doesn't require a specialized player, then it is a redbook audio CD, and is 44.1kHz PCM.  And, if so, then what I said above applies: FLAC, APE, WAV, and AIFF will all produce identical results (also ALAC, I forgot that one).

If it is something else, you will need a specialized rig to rip it, but then I'd probably try to rip it in its native format, or as close as you can manage.

[Boldlygo]

Ok thanks. Yes, I believe the formats I am describing are mastering formats. All the SACDs I have are redbooks, but also have an SACD layer that can be played by my OPPO player (many are multi-channel). I did find in past experiments that the ripped cd sounds better when played through my electronics that playing the actual CD through even some expensive CD players.
But this all still doesn't explain the use of the DSD encoder in JR and when you would use it if ripping Redbook CDs.

[Boldlygo]

I looked into this some time ago and the only way I found to rip an SACD was to acquire an older PS/3. There is more information on the net if you search.

There isn't actually a way to Rip SACD's directly into MC right?  Only SACD.iso?

I would gladly purchase a drive if I needed to and it would support that!  (I am assuming that the PS3 method is not done directly in MC but via some other software?)

Carl.

[AndrewFG]

When I ripped all my CDs a while ago before I bought JR, I used AIFF in iTunes. This is how the majority of my CD library exists.

If you want to continue using MC and iTunes together then AIFF is a good format. Either that or M4A ALAC. As others have said, all lossless formats contain the exact same amount of information.

[glynor]

But this all still doesn't explain the use of the DSD encoder in JR and when you would use it if ripping Redbook CDs.

You would not.

That option isn't for ripping Redbook CDs, unless you're crazy.

[Vincent Kars]

JRiver has various encoders.
Its primary purpose is to do format conversion.
Most of my collection is in FLAC. However to sync it to a portable I use the MP3 encoder to save a lot of space.

The content of a CD is 16 bit / 44.1 kHz PCM audio.
You can encode it to DSD but DSD is not a multi bit format like PCM but a single bit format.

DSD has a higher dynamic range and a much bigger bandwidth then Redbook.
But as your source is Redbook, you won’t get a higher dynamic range nor  higher frequencies as they are simply not on your source.
What you do get by this conversion is the quantization noise of DSD.
In case of DSD64 this noise starts to rise substantially close to the 20 kHz.

Converting PCM to DSD is probably combining the worst of two worlds.
My advice is to stick to PCM when ripping your CDs.
FLAC I do think a good choice.

•   Lossless.
•   Excellent tagging support including cover art.
•   Allows storing custom tags in the file.
•   Checksum stored in the file. This allows you to verify if the audio is corrupted.
•   Wide support on Win, OSX, Linux, Android.

[6233638]

SACDs are something else, and these discs require a special player to play.  You cannot rip a SACD using a standard PC CD-ROM drive (or DVD drive or whatever).  I believe most people use a Playstation rigged up to their computers somehow to do this?

Older versions of the PS3 had SACD playback support and allowed you to set up "Other OS" (Linux) on them.
If I recall correctly, an exploit was found in the hypervisor, which allows people to install and run homebrew "apps" on the PS3.
 
Someone has written a tool for this which will dump an SACD disc to a connected thumb drive, or allow you to rip it over a network connection using a command line tool on your PC.

However Sony have removed the "Other OS" support from newer firmwares, because it was mainly being used to pirate PS3 games, and newer models of the PS3 hardware no longer have drives with SACD support.
So you need to find an old model PS3 which is still working and has not been updated beyond a certain firmware to do this.
 
It's quite a hassle, but there's no other way to back up your SACD discs, or have the convenience of using digital files instead of physical media.

 
Some SACDs are hybrid discs and you can rip the CD layer from them though.

I've never heard of K2HD, so I can't help you with that.

K2HD are just really well mastered CDs. I imported a handful of them from Japan and they all sound wonderful.
But they're still redbook spec 16/44 PCM audio.

But, the basic deal is: If the disc will play on a regular-old CD player, like the ones you'd have in a PC or in an AV Rack, and doesn't require a specialized player, then it is a redbook audio CD, and is 44.1kHz PCM.  And, if so, then what I said above applies: FLAC, APE, WAV, and AIFF will all produce identical results (also ALAC, I forgot that one).

Exactly. Anything that you would call a "CD" is 16/44 PCM audio and should be ripped to one of the PCM encoders. There's very little reason to use the DSD encoder at all - you would have a specific use-case for it and would know exactly why you wanted to use it if you did.
 
 
If you have any HDCDs, you can rip them just as you would with any normal CD to 16/44 PCM files.
But you can then run those files through a HDCD decoder (I use dBpoweramp's tool) which will extract the 20-bit audio and put it into a 24-bit container file.

[JimH]

There is a link on this page for information on ripping SACD's.
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DSD_Format

If you rip an ordinary CD, don't even consider ripping to DSD.