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[Micromecca]

This was mentioned/discussed previously somewhere.

Could we please have the option to set a default user account for library server clients to prevent kiddies seeing content restricted to the Administrator or other accounts.

cheers
M

[Micromecca]

BUMP

Any chance of this getting some attention? it seems silly that we now have user account functionality but are unable to choose which to use as a default.

[6233638]

If you are using DLNA you can associate a device with a specific DLNA server by right-clicking it in the "Playing Now" list.

[glynor]

I've seen this requested a few times and I don't get it.

MC defaults to the last-used User.
If you don't want it to use the last used user, and to use a specific user, there is an automation command to switch users, so you can do it yourself with a simple script:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Users#Automation

[glynor]

Here's an example of the kind of script you could use to do that:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=87657.msg600488#msg600488

[Micromecca]

If you are using DLNA you can associate a device with a specific DLNA server by right-clicking it in the "Playing Now" list.

No DLNA in this particular setup.

I've seen this requested a few times and I don't get it.

MC defaults to the last-used User.
If you don't want it to use the last used user, and to use a specific user, there is an automation command to switch users, so you can do it yourself with a simple script:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Users#Automation

The answer is simple, because its a total faf on for the average user and it doesn't always work reliably. It can switch back to the Administrator account at times and I have not as yet been able to find out why.

I am aware of what is possible with a script, I actually posted about it here before it was added to the wiki, but to expect the average user to go through all that just to set a default account is a bit much IMO, especially when with a bit more coding it could be as simple as selecting a default user from a lit somewhere in the options.

[glynor]

I think needing to set a default user other than "remember last selection" is an edge case.  But I don't make the call on coding priorities, or do it, so I can't say one way or the other how much trouble it is or if it is worth adding.

Still, you can do it.  It isn't hard, at all.  I'd be happy to write the script for you if you can't figure it out.

And, if you can show how it gets reset to the non-last-used user, I'm sure they'd listen.  I tested it a BUNCH while writing that Wiki Page (that was me), and I couldn't get it to fail at all.  We're talking probably 100-200 tries, in various conditions...

So, if you're having trouble, they'll likely need more information, and there might be something weird about your system that is causing it.

[Micromecca]

I will pass your reply onto the folks experiencing the issue (it isn't me).

They are currently only trialling MC so nothing lost if it doesn't work out for them. I think the fact that I have already suggested they manually script this has already put them off.

[pauly139]

I can understand people wanting to set a default user. Perhaps in a family situation with young children the default user would have appropriate settings for their content. Adults would have a different user account, but want the system to start in 'Child Mode' by default. So defaulting to the last-used account would not be ideal.

Achieving this via a script is great as an option, but I believe certainly not attractive to prospective customers.

Just my 2 cents...

[rossp]

I can understand people wanting to set a default user. Perhaps in a family situation with young children the default user would have appropriate settings for their content. Adults would have a different user account, but want the system to start in 'Child Mode' by default. So defaulting to the last-used account would not be ideal.

Achieving this via a script is great as an option, but I believe certainly not attractive to prospective customers.

Just my 2 cents...

+1

[glynor]

It sounds like a few people in this thread would be interested, though I'm not sure if that qualifies it as a common need.

But, in any case, I'm happy to write a quick script and post instructions.  You'll have to customize the script a bit for your particular user accounts, but I can make instructions for that as well.  But, I don't want to bother if you aren't going to bother.

If you're interested, say aye.

[rossp]

I don't understand why there is no flag in the GUI to set a default user. Then all this mess goes away and the USER system is complete.
Digging in an xml file and making a batch file does not solve the issue as MC started outside the batch file will still have the problem.
This currently is stopping me from implementing the USER system.

Ross

[glynor]

I don't understand why there is no flag in the GUI to set a default user. Then all this mess goes away and the USER system is complete.

The entire Users feature is basically brand new.  Things like this evolve over time.

Perhaps they'll add this, perhaps not.  But this thread has a grand total of three people interested, and one of those three said it wasn't even for himself.  I wouldn't exactly call the clamor for the feature deafening.

Digging in an xml file and making a batch file does not solve the issue as MC started outside the batch file will still have the problem.

Why would you ever do that?

The Links in the Start Menu (or Start Screen) are just pointers to the executable.  They can just as easily be pointed to the script.  The only thing you can't redirect is if you're actually digging down in Windows Explorer and opening MC via double-clicking on the EXE directly (which makes no sense).  I have a number of these on my system, including these:



This sounds, to me, like you're just refusing to help yourself.  Don't make the perfect the enemy of the good.

PS.  I wouldn't use a BAT file, because then you'd see the black command window. VB scripts are always better.

[mwillems]

The entire Users feature is basically brand new.  Things like this evolve over time.

Perhaps they'll add this, perhaps not.  But this thread has a grand total of three people interested, and one of those three said it wasn't even for himself.  I wouldn't exactly call the clamor for the feature deafening.

There's at least four more folks in this thread: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=82733.0 (fitbrit, Mr. Haugen, Bartman01, acwcanada).   I'll add my voice for it as well, a default user would be very handy.  The lack of a default user is why I'm not currently using the system.

[EDIT:] Xtacbyme has also sort of been asking for this, but to be fair he didn't use the word "default user" to describe it, but he was surprised and upset by the client being logged in to the last logged user on the server. I know I've seen a few other threads on this that I can't find right now.

I know it can be worked around, and I know the system as currently implemented isn't really designed as an access control system, but that seems to be what quite a number of people would like to use it for. I remember a few panicked posts  from users who thought they were fencing off adult content and got a rather rude shock when they left the server logged in and a client started up logged in.  I'll see if I can find them. one of the posts I was thinking of was this post by xtacbyme: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=82733.msg585440#msg585440, but I remember one or two more, I'll keep looking.

[glynor]

Security through obscurity is no security at all.  It isn't a valid security system if the file system is still accessible.

To be clear, I'm not against it being added.  But I don't get why it is a huge issue.  There's an automation command!

If there wasn't, I'd be the first with the pitchforks and torches.

[glynor]

Also, to note, I offered.  No one wants to get help, I guess, which strikes me as pretty lazy.

[mwillems]

Security through obscurity is no security at all.  It isn't a valid security system if the file system is still accessible.

To be clear, I'm not against it being added.  But I don't get why it is a huge issue.

I think when dealing with small children, the goal is just to make it hard for them, not to make it impossible (and network shares can be independently password protected, unless I misunderstand what you mean).  

The difficulty with the current setup is that it's not intuitive to most people that the user you used last on the server would also propagate over to the client, and wouldn't reset.  Once people get that, it's easy enough to work around,* but meanwhile you're setting people up for an unfair surprise.  You generally don't want to create functionality that is likely to surprise people, especially when you're talking about kids and adult content.

*-easy enough to work around assuming that the user is comfortable with scripting, batch files, etc., which is some folks, but not everybody.  

Also, to note, I offered.  No one wants to get help, I guess, which strikes me as pretty lazy.

I'll take you up on the offer; I've only ever done batch scripting (and a little C and Pascal coding way back when), but if you can point me to a place to get started on the vbscript side, I'd be grateful. I think I know how to write a batch script for this, so it would just be a matter of adapting it to the conventions of vbscript.

I have a child on the way (as opposed to one currently trying to hack my system), so I've got time to perfect the scripts. Right now, my use case is just trying to hide some of my stranger music from the in-laws  

[glynor]

I think when dealing with small children, the goal is just to make it hard for them, not to make it impossible (and network shares can be independently password protected, unless I misunderstand what you mean).  

Yeah.  Using separate usernames and passwords on certain network volumes might work (certainly not high-security as SMB's "security" is pretty bad).  I'm not sure how MC would respond to files it couldn't access, though.  At the very least, you'd almost certainly have to disable the Fix Broken Links feature.

Plus, it would still leave your local disk littered with thumbnails and whatnot of the content, which, depending on your needs, might be just as bad. It comes down to: If you think a program like MC can effectively "hide" content (like Adult content, for example) from someone, while the files are still accessible via the OS, you are kidding yourself.  I think I could have figured out how to find them as a 6-8 year old.  Certainly as a motivated 13 year old.  The only way to protect that kind of stuff is to encrypt it (and even that isn't enough to protect the content from determined prying eyes, you have to encrypt everything).

And, the most convenient way to restrict content in MC is via the per-user search, and as I pointed out in the Wiki article, there's nothing to stop the user from just deleting the search from the configuration.  It is a convenience feature.  Matt clearly stated that was the scope of the feature (and said it might grow in the future, but this was the goal for MC19 for the new thing).

The difficulty with the current setup is that it's not intuitive to most people that the user you used last on the server would also propagate over to the client, and wouldn't reset.  Once people get that, it's easy enough to work around,* but meanwhile you're setting people up for an unfair surprise.  You generally don't want to create functionality that is likely to surprise people, especially when you're talking about kids and adult content.

Yeah... I don't think it is so simple, though.  What the people in this thread are asking for is essentially a client-side option, right?  So, launch and then switch to user X?  You can already have a per-Library default for network Libraries (by simply leaving the Server set to the specified user).  So, independent of the current user on the Server, you want a client-side default, so that different clients can have different defaults at launch time.  That's exactly how the script would work, and is how they'd implement it if they did add a client side option, I imagine (launch, load the Library, set a timer to give loading time to finish, switch to user when timer expires).

But the Users are stored in the Library, which could be variable, or a network Library... So, what happens when you switch Libraries on the Client?  Or launch and the Library you normally use isn't available, so you have to pick a different one to get MC loaded?  What happens if you're connecting to a Network Library (or just a local one that was modified by a different copy of MC) and the specified user is no longer in the Library?

I think it could be done (you could just make it "default" to the Admin user if there was any failure), but then you STILL have a case that breaks what you're talking about.

In any case, I'm happy to write it up.  Give me a few hours.

Note: I edited the above to explain myself better.

[glynor]

PS. Congrats!

[connersw]

You could add my name to the list of the people that thinks this is an issue.  However, I haven't chimed in because the way that User Accounts is currently implemented, it is so fundamentally flawed, that just this alone wouldn't be enough to fix it.  It is easier just not to deal with it, and when I turn on something for the kids, I log in and select it myself.  Likewise, on their tablets, I have remember password in Authentication turned off, and I have to log in for them and put it on.  It's a hassle, but at least I can monitor what they are watching, and I don't have to deal with the rigmarole of the current User Account system. 

User Accounts doesn't seem like it is anywhere near flushed out and polished.  There are lots of suggestions/requests in the original roll-out thread that could at least be a start to cleaning it up.  JRiver's selling point is that things "just work."  User Accounts don't, and implementing a script to "help myself" that doesn't even solve the problem is not a solution. 

[InflatableMouse]

When user accounts were introduced it was never meant as a security measure. It was never meant to prevent kids to see things they are not supposed to see, but it was to be a simple and convenient way to filter views for different family members.

Some people wanted it to be something different, with permissions and all that. Maybe that's coming I don't know. Like Glynor said things like this evolve over time.

To quote Matt:

Scope
The possibilities here are pretty endless, but our goals for MC19 are modest.  I want a simple way to not see Curious George when I sit down at the couch.  We're not trying to make everything in MC fully multi-user.

I think it currently does just that. No more, no less.

[mwillems]

Yeah... I don't think it is so simple, though.  What the people in this thread are asking for is essentially a client-side option, right?  So, launch and then switch to user X?  You can already have a per-Library default for network Libraries (by simply leaving the Server set to the specified user).  

I think the issue is that a lot of folks (myself included) don't have a dedicated "server" that only serves content.  A lot of us have pc that we use as a playback terminal, but is also the content server for the rest of the house.  So having the "servers" settings propagate to the clients automatically is a problem if, say, I'm upstairs watching Saw 3 (or whatever) on my server HTPC, and my putative 8 year old turns on the client in the living room at the same time.  It's not even a matter of me forgetting to reset the server, I'm using it which creates an open window.

Because my server is also used for playback, when I switch to the "adult" user, every other machine in the house switches to it, and I think that behavior is what is surprising and unexpected to most users.  Having realized that that happens, steps can be taken to correct it, but the only relatively safe method is to have a dedicated server that you leave on the correct user setting at all times (which is partly why I'm planning to build one in the near future).  

So, independent of the current user on the Server, you want a client-side default, so that different clients can have different defaults at launch time.  That's exactly how the script would work, and is how they'd implement it if they did add a client side option, I imagine (launch, load the Library, set a timer to give loading time to finish, switch to user when timer expires).

But the Users are stored in the Library, which could be variable, or a network Library... So, what happens when you switch Libraries on the Client?  Or launch and the Library you normally use isn't available, so you have to pick a different one to get MC loaded?  What happens if you're connecting to a Network Library (or just a local one that was modified by a different copy of MC) and the specified user is no longer in the Library?

I think it could be done (you could just make it "default" to the Admin user if there was any failure), but then you STILL have a case that breaks what you're talking about.

It would be easy enough to ask for a password under those circs, but I get that it's a complicated issue that would need to be thought through carefully, and not just an easy fix.  

In any case, I'm happy to write it up.  Give me a few hours.

PS. Congrats!

Thanks a million!  I'll keep my eyes peeled  

When user accounts were introduced it was never meant as a security measure. It was never meant to prevent kids to see things they are not supposed to see, but it was to be a simple and convenient way to filter views for different family members.

Some people wanted it to be something different, with permissions and all that. Maybe that's coming I don't know. Like Glynor said things like this evolve over time.

To quote Matt:
I think it currently does just that. No more, no less.

I recognize the user feature's aims for 19 were modest, but MC19 also removed access control (it's not available anymore).  http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Access_Control

"Users" can be password protected, and the "users" feature was intended to be, in part, a replacement for the access control feature.  So folks who previously used access control, want "users" to do what access control used to do.  In that context, I think the "all clients become set to the server's active user" piece is a bit of a pitfall for the unwary.

[glynor]

Exactly, Inflatable.  Thanks.

You can certainly use it to filter out Adult content, though, and for similar tasks.  It is reasonably robust.  But if you want to make it foolproof and inaccessible when you are outside of MC, then it won't be adequate.

Sorry, I didn't get to writing the nice version of the script (which I will do) before my daughter woke up from her nap.  My grandfather's computer was sick and needed help.  But, here it is, basically...

File: MC19-Launch_Theater_Switch_User.wsf
Purpose: Launch MC in Theater View and switch to a specified user

Code: [Select]

<package>
<job id="vbs">
<script language="VBScript">
'Create our handy dandy Shell object
set WshShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")

'Launch MC in Theater View Mode
WshShell.Run "mc19.exe /Mode Theater"

WScript.Sleep 1000

'Switch to the User
WshShell.Run "mc19.exe /MCC 22028,1001"

'Make sure MC is on Top
WshShell.Run "mc19.exe /Start"
</script>
</job>
</package>
Copy the above, and save it to a WSF file.  Modify the line that says:
WshShell.Run "mc19.exe /MCC 22028,1001"

To point to your particular user of choice.  The user.jmd file where these numbers are defined is in your Library's folder.  Find it, and open it in a text editor like Notepad++ (or just Notepad if you like a stupid editor).  But it basically works like:
0 - Administrator
1000 - First user added
1001 - Second user added
1002 - Third user added
etc

Order displayed within MC's View > User menu, which is alphabetical, is irrelevant.  It just increments as you add them.  So, you could also just trial-and-error it if you are too lazy or afraid to look for the file.

This particular simple version of the script will:
1. open MC (if it isn't already running)
2. switch to Theater View mode.
3. wait a second for everything to get going (you might be able to reduce this to 200-500ms depending on your system and how fast MC launches and connects to the Library)
4. switch to user 2 (1001, see above)
5. makes sure MC is the application on top.

Follow, essentially, the instructions in this thread to use it:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=84541.msg577611#msg577611

Read down a few posts and I explain how to make shortcuts to them on Windows 8.  The steps for Windows 7 are identical, though it is easier to get to the Start Menu folder.  This shows you the general idea.

If you want to modify it to start in Standard View instead (I assumed most people would want Theater) just change the line to:

Code: [Select]

WshShell.Run "mc19.exe /Mode Standard"
As you'd expect.  To decrease the delay, change the 1000 to 500, or whatever (that's in milliseconds).

EDIT: I fixed a few oopsies above.

[glynor]

Because my server is also used for playback, when I switch to the "adult" user, every other machine in the house switches to it

That's not quite how it works.  It doesn't actively switch already-connected clients, it only impacts newly connected ones.  I get that it is a limitation of the system, but that's an important distinction, even in your case, with an "actively used" server.  You can force a client (or a server) to switch to a specified user.  If it was the server that changed, any new clients that connect automatically get that user, but immediately after they connect, they're free to switch to any of the others.  Any clients already connected are left alone on their currently selected User.

So, you can just automate the process of switching users.  Launch MC, it gets the user it is going to get but who cares because a second later you do the hidden equivalent of manually switching to a specific user.  If the client in question is set up with all of the shortcuts pointed to the script instead, you'll never see any user but the one picked by the script explicitly.

By the way, my setup is essentially identical.  My "server" is my desktop in the basement, so the same thing could happen to me, though I don't watch Saw 3, or porn, alone in the basement, very often while my daughter is awake.

So... It doesn't come up much.  I suppose if you were using the living room PC as the server, and might forget one night late with the missus (or by yourself on the couch, I suppose), and then the next morning the kid opens the MC to get their episode of Dora, and gets Debbie Does Dallas instead, that could be an issue.  

This script will solve that.  Just replace the Start Menu entries you use for Media Center with a pointer to this script, or a modification of it, and it'll launch how you want with the user you want every time.  You can keep a copy of the "regular, direct launcher buried in your All Programs menu, but pin this one.  You can give it the MC icon, and everything, and call the shortcut whatever you want.  Just pin those wherever you would normally have MC pinned.  If you need a Standard View version and a Theater View version, just modify a copy of the script, and make a separate shortcut with a separate name.

[mwillems]

Thanks a million glynor, I'll get it teed up and let you know if I hit any obstacles.

Thanks also for clarifying my thinking on the issue, I appreciate your patience, I can be a little dense sometimes    Sometimes I just need to hear something explained a certain way for it to "click"

[6233638]

So, you can just automate the process of switching users.  Launch MC, it gets the user it is going to get but who cares because a second later you do the hidden equivalent of manually switching to a specific user.  If the client in question is set up with all of the shortcuts pointed to the script instead, you'll never see any user but the one picked by the script explicitly.

If you're launching into Theater view, it seems to be fine because Theater View launches to the top-level view.
 
If you launch to standard view using this script, you get a second of whatever was in the last view you used, which may contain restricted content.
 
 
While the script works, I can definitely see a parent wanting a setting which always launches the client in the "child friendly" account, before any content is loaded.

[glynor]

If you launch to standard view using this script, you get a second of whatever was in the last view you used, which may contain restricted content.

You can almost certainly set the delay much lower, and find a balance.  On my laptop in a VM with a local Library, it works with:

Code: [Select]

WScript.Sleep 400
I'm working on something a little nicer, but it'll be a bit.

[rossp]

PS.  I wouldn't use a BAT file, because then you'd see the black command window. VB scripts are always better.

I called the script MC19 Ross.wsf but when I launch it I do get the black command box.

Thanks for your help though, I think you have fixed my issue with this little kludge. Sorry I was a bit reluctant at first!!!!

Ross

[glynor]

I called the script MC19 Ross.wsf but when I launch it I do get the black command box.

That's because your computer is set to default vbscript to cscript.exe instead of wscript.exe (which is the default).