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[RCAal]

im new to the forum and this question may have a place on it but I was wondering why the artwork and meta data are so inaccurate.  

I have a library that I imported from windows media player that has had a great deal of its meta data inaccurately transferred.  I originally ripped as wave files.  I have since ripped files directly with j river in wave and the meta data has sometimes been ok but usually not.  

someone told me aiff would handle the meta data better so I tried ripping a cd in aiff and the data seemed to transfer ok but not the artwork.  

for instance I ripped a cd of Charles ives symphonies 2 and 3 with Bernstein conducting the ny phil and the album cover that came with it was for a list piano concerto.  I have also tried to use the option to go on the internet to find artwork and it never seems to search the web.  always returns only the artwork that is in my library.

[BryanC]

WAV files do not have native tag support, so the implementation of WAV tags differs by programs, leading to inconsistencies like you have seen.

I would strongly suggest that you use a lossless format that has well-supported tags, such as FLAC.

[RCAal]

I just ripped a cd in FLAC.  it appears to be a compressed format and not a bit for bit copy.  is there a format other than WAV or AIFF that handles metat data as well?

[Matt]

I just ripped a cd in FLAC.  it appears to be a compressed format and not a bit for bit copy.  is there a format other than WAV or AIFF that handles metat data as well?

FLAC is a bit for bit copy.  Same with APE and WMA Lossless.

[6233638]

I just ripped a cd in FLAC.  it appears to be a compressed format and not a bit for bit copy.  is there a format other than WAV or AIFF that handles metat data as well?

FLAC uses lossless compression. That means the file is compressed - to about 50% its original size, on average - but is decompressed to the original bit-perfect audio for playback.
 
This is not the same as lossy compression formats like MP3 where the file is compressed to much smaller sizes by discarding parts of the audio, which cannot be recovered.

[RCAal]

I understand what you are saying but my question is the same.  there is an audible difference between listening to the cd and listening to the FLAC version.  both AIFF and WAVe sound better.  is there no way to get accurate meta data.  all the track data travels ok it is the album covers that don't seem to come across with the rip.  windows media seemed to get all the meta data and artwork but I prefer the audio quality of jriver but dealing with having to manually fix the data is a drag

[6233638]

I understand what you are saying but my question is the same.  there is an audible difference between listening to the cd and listening to the FLAC version.  both AIFF and WAVe sound better.

They are literally identical.
Compress a WAV/AIFF file with FLAC, and decompress it back to WAV/AIFF and the audio is exactly the same.
Not just "sounds the same" - the audio checksum will be a match.
 
If you're hearing a difference, it's expectation bias.
You know that something is different (the audio container) therefore you expect a different outcome - even on a subconscious level.

[Arindelle]

both WAV and AIFF have similar limitations for storing metadata.

FLAC is the best choice as previously stated; ALAC also can handle almost as much. My son does this because he uses Applelossless for his ipad.

Now as for your question for the image files ... if you already have images in the album folder (like folder.jpg or cover.jpg), this is an easy fix. Test by selecting the tracks off a wav album => right click => Cover Art => Quick find in file. If you have configured the audio options of MC to look at the album folder for the cover art, this will associate (embed if possible) the art. If this works you can select all your tracks and do this with one action.  This also can work in the opposite direction if you have embedded art but no folder.jpg in the file (save cover art to external location ....)

Concerning the tag data that WMC player gets, that JR does not ... I can't see why JRiver would not get everything that Windows Media  could get. Maybe you can indicate the precise tag name that is not being imported?

Hope this helps 

there is an audible difference between listening to the cd and listening to the FLAC version.  both AIFF and WAVe sound better.

sorry to duplicate what 62333638 but let's not go there on this forum, please  Have someone help you, and do an ABX test. Make sure that the samples are short and are exaclty the same volume (gain) Comparing a CD to anything is tough unless you can insure that the outputs are exactly the same, especially regarding volume, and the same DAC is being used etc. read this please and pass it on to anyone who might share his point of view. Part 1 => Flac-vs-Wav-vs-mp3-vs-m4a-experiment and Part 2 => FLAC vs WAV Part 2 Final Results

[RCAal]

how do I configure the audio files to do what you suggest.  I went to tools  options audio but I don't see how I configure "look at the album folder for the cover art".  I'll pass on the conversation about audio quality.  that gets to be a whole other can of worms.  spent my life in that world.  I would just like to be able to find a way to get the album artwork in either a WAV or AIFF file using JRiver.

I appreciate whatever assistance you could give.

[Dawgincontrol]

If all you are looking for is cover artwork, you can save the cover art in the same folder as your wav files and name it "folder.jpg" in each album folder.  I actually use another program for this (Media Monkey because of it's folder structuring and the fact it does both options when finding cover art).  

JRiver (like many other music playback programs) will use this when playing or viewing your files.  

Out of curiosity, when comparing your cd playback and flac playback, did you play them both through JRiver?  Not trying to get into the big debate we've all probably been involved in; but just curious.

[RCAal]

I read the article about flac and ripped a disc using it.  once again all the data came through but no cover art.  there must be something wrong with my settings but I don't know how to find it and would appreciate any help anyone could give me.  I have been searching thru the manual but it doesn't seem to help.

[Dawgincontrol]

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/WAV_%26_AIFF_Tagging

Try this wiki article.

[RCAal]

regarding comparing files, which I understand is not what this stream is about, but yes I played them thru the same systems.  im really not focusing on audio quality for the moment I am more interested in trying to understand why I am having such trouble with meta data and cover art.  I am deeply experienced in the world of audio but not so in computer usage.  been using computer for many years but always having the luxury of available tech support I don't know how to do a lot of this stuff myself and although I am enjoying the audio quality of jriver and will continue to use it I wish it was a bit more user friendly.

[Arindelle]

how do I configure the audio files to do what you suggest.  I went to tools  options audio but I don't see how I configure "look at the album folder for the cover art".  I'll pass on the conversation about audio quality.  that gets to be a whole other can of worms.  spent my life in that world.  I would just like to be able to find a way to get the album artwork in either a WAV or AIFF file using JRiver.

I appreciate whatever assistance you could give.

sure no problem

go Options=>File Handling=>choose the cover art mode to use the same folder as the file option -- here's a screen shot if you don't know what I mean. I know it works with the standard folder.jpg (and I believe it works with cover.jpg but not sure about the latter, maybe someone else could confirm? see my edit below below)

You might need to do another manipulation from Library tools, but lets start here first. Run an auto-import after the change. (you don't have to actually import the image files themselves if you don't want to; but it reindexes things).

 the important thing is that you enjoy the music. once you get MC set up to your liking it will be worth the learning curve  

EDIT: importing will not automatically embed wav files using "cover.jpg"; but will with "folder jpg". Howver if you use cover.jpg you can use Library tools=>Cover art=>Quick Find in file ... if you have a choice use folder, but if you have thousands of cds there are other tools like this

[Vincent Kars]

Tagging is part of the WAV standard but unfortunately it doesn’t support tags that are crucial for making a track self-documenting like Album and Cover Art.

Don’t know how the situation is today nut WMP11 only writes a few tags at rip time.
Anything else including your edits are library only hence your tags won’t transfer to other programs.

There is a trick to work around the limitations of the tagging standard: writing ID3 tags in a info chuck. Some programs do support this like JRiver, dbPoweramp hence you can exchange the tags between them. The moment you use a program not supporting this DIY standard, you have a problem.

As others stetd, if it is about tagging support (and support by other programs e.g. DNLA servers) FLAC is imho your best bet.

At face value their shouldn’t be a difference between WAV and FLAC.
Many have done the test: WAV1 convert to Flac convert to WAV2
A binary comparison of the audio part always yields the same result; WAV1 is 100% bit identical to WAV2.

A hypothesis (not backed up by any measurement as far as I know) is:
-   All electrical components produces some pollution
-   Concerting WAV or FLAC generates different pollution patterns (WAV requires less CPU, more I/O)
-   This pollution creeps into the DAC e.g. by modulating the ground plane
Hence although they are bit identical, they do sound different.

You might try the JRiver memory playback option.
As a DAC doesn’t understand anything about WAV, FLAC, MP3, etc all have to be transformed to something the DAC does understand e.g. LPCM24
Do the entire processing and store this in memory and one has eliminated the different pollution patterns during playback

Success

 

[RCAal]

I thank everyone for their assistance.  I have found a work around for myself and now view the metadata as a list and abandoned the thumbnails altogether.  as was said to me its really all about enjoying the music.  it seems that when I rip now all the track information is coming across and the problem is with the artwork.  is it was like the old days when there was a lot of interesting information and pictures that came with the vinyl it would matter more but now the quality of the audio and the track information are all I really need. 

i would say one thing for those who might be interested.  after many, many years in the recording industry i have come to see audio quality as not a totally scientific phenom.  i know that all the test instrument comparisons prove that things a the same but it is the ears of the creator and listener that ultimately tell about audio.  i worked on SACD with its creators from Tokyo and many other high end audio pros and always found in the end what sounds best is proved by the sound of it not the physics.

[GROBEC]

I thank everyone for their assistance.  I have found a work around for myself and now view the metadata as a list and abandoned the thumbnails

i would say one thing for those who might be interested.  after many, many years in the recording industry i have come to see audio quality as not a totally scientific phenom.  i know that all the test instrument comparisons prove that things a the same but it is the ears of the creator and listener that ultimately tell about audio.  i worked on SACD with its creators from Tokyo and many other high end audio pros and always found in the end what sounds best is proved by the sound of it not the physics.

AMEN!