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[Adam]

I posted a message earlier, but did not get any responses.
I still get page faults with MJ8. I have paid for the full
version yet I can't consistently rip a CD.

Problem:

During CD Ripping, while a track is being Copied
(not encoded), I get the following error:

MEDIA JUKEBOX caused an invalid page fault in
module KERNEL32.DLL at 0177:bff88396.
Registers:
EAX=c00309c4 CS=0177 EIP=bff88396 EFLGS=00010212
EBX=008bffec SS=017f ESP=007bfe98 EBP=007c0010
ECX=00000000 DS=017f ESI=00000000 FS=55ef
EDX=bff76855 ES=017f EDI=bff79060 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
53 56 57 8b 75 10 8b 38 33 db 85 f6 75 2d 8d b5
Stack dump:

Can someone on the development team please respond?
Can you determine where in MJ8 things are crashing
based on the addresses given above?

Thanks in advance,
Adam

[Adam]

I wanted to add that these page faults occur
again and again-- MJ8 never closes! In fact,
I am unable to even use Ctl-Alt-Del to kill
MJ8. I have to push the reset button on my
computer to reboot!

[JohnT]

Are you using rip/encode simultaneous? If so, which encoder?
Which copy mode are you using (digital secure?), which OS, and is your cd drive IDE or SCSI?
Did it work with previous build of version 8? Or version 7?

Thanks for helping debug this problem.
John T.
JRiver, Inc.

[Adam]

Hi,John. Thanks for responding.
I'm using external encoder (the Lame encoder from
your website), with ABR 160 encoding.
My OS is Win98, and for audio ripping, I've
checked the digital playback box with Copy mode=
Digital Large Buffer, Speed=Max. I hadn't tried
MJ7 long enough before buying the upgrade and
downloading your MJ8-beta, which I consider to
be better than anything else out there and
a great improvement over version 7. Hopefully
I do not have to revert back to MJ7, because
I'd be missing a lot of cool new features, etc.

-Adam

[Adam]

Oops. Forgot to answer: It's an IDE drive
(Plextor PlexWriter 12/10/32A).

[Gatobrit]

Use the built-in MP3 encoder in v8. It is LAME and probably has better support.

[Adam]

I tried to use the built-in encoder, but it would not let
me set my own command-line switches. It lets me set
a custom command line, but that apparently only takes
effect if you are using an external encoder. Using the
internal encoder would only give me High to Low quality
settings. And even the internal MP3 VBR option seemed
to give me CBR encodings.

Besides, the crash occurs during the Copying... phase,
not the encoding phase. The progress bar is, say, mid-
way through copying, not at the beginning or end.

Adam

[JimH]

Disk space?

[Adam]

I've plenty of disk space (about 19GB on a 29GB drive).
Any other ideas for what could be causing a crash?

Developers: do you agree that regardless of what could
be causing the problem-- internal or external-- your
application should not crash the way it does or cause
me to have to reboot my system?

Thanks for any further assistance you might offer...

Adam

[Adam]

While to some it may seem harmless that a hard reboot
is often required after using MJ8, users should be made
aware of my experience with SEVERE drive corruption
while attempting to rip a CD. If I don't get a "friendly"
crash that forces me to hard reboot, I get a blue
screen message telling me there's been a write error.
After reboot, my disk drive is no longer existing.
Norton says, after restoring the boot sector, that
everything is OK with the drive. ANY OTHER APPLICATION
that I run works fine. Only when I run MJ8 do I get
serious drive failures and system crashes. NAV shows
no viruses at work here. It seems to be related only
to MJ8. No, I won't "reinstall Windows." No, I won't
"reformat my drive." Beta or not beta, no software
released to the end user should EVER seg fault, and
if it does, all hands should be on deck to fix it.
These seg faults (crashes) are not being addressed
seriously, and there's the real possibility that this
software is damaging disk drive integrity. I will
post this message to the ZDnet/Cnet boards if there
is not sufficient evidence that my problem is confined
to my particular configuration.

Adam

[Doof]

I will
post this message to the ZDnet/Cnet boards if there
is not sufficient evidence that my problem is confined
to my particular configuration.

Is the fact that you're the only one experiencing this not evidence enough?

[JimH]

I'm sorry for your problem, but we tend to focus on problems that are common to many users and that we can reproduce.  This is not the case with this one.

Different programs use the system differently.  The problem you have could be a fault with memory or disk or OS.  Or MJ.  Unfortunately, we can't duplicate it.

If you choose to smear us on another forum, please include the above.

[RUSS]

I'm using MJ7.2.280 & receive similar error messages, except mine are inconsistent & follow no particular sequence of events.  I am currently evaluating MJ7 to purchase etc, but when you have to consistently keep re-booting your computer to get rid of the dreaded Error Message box, it makes you wonder ... Why spend good money on something that doesn't work properly?

[JohnT]

I agree that the application shouldn't be crashing your system. If you're willing, I'd like to work with you to troubleshoot the problem. I've some questions and some things to try:

- do you have the "rip & encode simultaneous" option turned on?
- try ripping straight to uncompressed wave rather than enabling encoding
- have you done digital ripping/encoding successfully with other applications on the same system?
- run the aspichk.exe program, available here: http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/support/driverdetail.html?filekey=aspichk.exe
 copy and paste the results here
- maybe look for updated drivers for your cd drive
- try the 8.0.199 build of MJ, there was a bug fix in the ripper module

Thanks for your help in debugging this problem.
John T.
JRiver, Inc.

[Adam]

To Doof:

no, just because I'm the only one reporting it doesn't mean
I'm the only one experiencing it. Most others would simply uninstall
and move on (to Music Match, say). Furthermore, I could very well
be the first to experience this, given that it's beta software.
Your response was not very helpful.

To JimH:

Fact is, I am a paying customer and expect support, like it or not.
Reproduce the problem? OK, tell me all that you've done to
to reproduce it. I don't have any evidence other than the unrespons-
iveness on this thread (check it out). Who's looked at the actual
code using address offsets to see where the crash is occuring, never
mind reproducing. There's a zillion different PC configurations out
there. Many problems will never be duplicated, and you'll have to
INTERACT with the user having the problem in order to fix the
problem. Ignoring the user because their problem is not rampant
is plain ol' bad customer service. And just because my problem is
not rampant doesn't mean potential users shouldn't be made aware
of the possibility of a problem with your software. "Smearing"
implies slamming something without merit. This is not the case
here.

To JohnT:

I appreciate your time and apparent willingness to help
me. Your inquiries tell me you would really like to solve the
problem. I think this is the right approach. If your software is
to ever become "shrink-wrap" worthy, solving these tough problems
is certainly a requirement. Please bear with me as I work my own
job, recover my D: drive again, and collect/try the things you
mention in your email. I will get back to you later in the day.

I can tell you that I rip using Lame external decoder. The path
the process takes it: Copy first song, call external encoder to
compress 1st song (DOS program), copy second song, call external
decoder to compress 2nd song, etc. I don't consider this to be
"simultaneous" rip and encode. Please clarify if I'm incorrect.

And yes, I've been able to rip using other software, including
the Plextor software for my CD drive and MusicMatch. I'll get
back to you later after I've tried the other things you suggest.
In the meantime, can you determine somehow, given the address
and stack trace dump above, where in the program source MJ
crashed? It may help you pinpoint the problem and determine
more specific things to try in order to reproduce the problem.

Regards,
Adam

[marysm]

RE:[Adam]"I wanted to add that these page faults occur again and again-- MJ8 never closes! In fact, I am unable to even use Ctl-Alt-Del to kill MJ8. I have to push the reset button on my computer to reboot!"

I, too, was having this problem, but have not seen it in the last couple of betas. It seemed to happen when switching views or moving from one task to another quickly. Currently I have 8.0.199 and the crashes are less often and have only once caught me in the never ending loop.

Win98, 300mhz, 168mb ram

marysm

[Doof]

My response wasn't meant to be helpful. It was meant to rabidly defend my media player of choice. It's a religion. Didn't you know? Ask all of the Winamp people. They'll tell you.

[Udo_1]

Hi Adam,

So I really don’t know, what you heading for. No reinstallation of  Windows, etc. You probably have to, since nobody in the world can tell, that there is no leftover from other software. I’ telling this as one how put some acid critique down here (see: to Harry The Hipster… 02-06-2002) but all of us know about the windows crashes. At least, it is worth a try to install one w98 version into a new dir and see, how it runs. It takes less time than fixing all those drive problems etc. and you can go back to your original windows any time.

Udo

[JimH]

> Fact is, I am a paying customer and expect support, like it or not.

It's the attitude I don't like.  We've answered your questions, but not to your satisfaction.  $24.98 does not buy unlimited support or undivided attention.

As I said, it could be an MJ problem, but I've done support a long, long time, and sometimes it isn't our product that's having the problem.

So if you will keep an open mind, I'll try to do the same.

[Udo_1]

One word to your blue-screen-crashes

If any program sends a kill-instruction to it's operation system, and this is stupid enough to excecute it, so who's fault is it?

You better address this issue to Bill Gates!

Udo

[Doof]

Last night, I was transferring some large APE files from one computer to another, and my computer rebooted. This is so obviously MJ's fault because, even though MJ wasn't running at the time, these were Media Jukebox files, as evidenced by the Media Jukebox icon on all of the files I was transferring. I want my money back, J River is the devil for creating such a product. And before you ask, no I will not install new NIC drivers.

[JimH]

Doof,

Did you remember to floss first?  MJ only supports clean minds and clean teeth.

[KingSparta]

Ling, Ling, Head?

never seen that one

[Doof]

[KingSparta]

Gezzz

[Adam]

Hi John, and others,

I first want to make it clear that there is no need to defend MJ as the best
software out there. That's why I bought it. My previous message was perhaps
too sharp, but it stemmed from my frustrating experience with MJ8 and lack of
response from tech support (I posted this problem on January 31, 9:52PM, with
no reponse. I posted on a thread by "Desparate" on Feb 1. This thread was
started Feb 5.) I'll tone it down a little. Please consider doing the same.

Some answers:

- do you have the "rip & encode simultaneous" option turned on?
 No

- try ripping straight to uncompressed wave rather than enabling encoding
 OK, may take a few CDs before the problem rears its ugly head. I'll report back...

- have you done digital ripping/encoding successfully with other applications on the same system?
 Yes

- run the aspichk.exe program, available here: http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/support/driverdetail.html?filekey=aspichk.exe
copy and paste the results here
 The webpage warns against installing if you have EasyCDCreator 4.0, which I do. Instead,
 the Plextor drive properties states:
   Adapter: 1, ID:1
   Model: CD-R PX-W1210A
   ASPI ver: 1.0
   Adapter ID: ESDI_506
   Buffer size: 2048k
   Firmware version: 1.09

- maybe look for updated drivers for your cd drive
 I did, and I upgraded the firmware to 1.09 from 1.07. They listed the
 following fixes/updates:
 v1.09 - Date posted: November 19, 2001
   Added support for special commands for Windows XP
     blank disc detection and pop-up function.
   Fixed a bug that would hang up a PC after receiving a
     write error in following combination: EZ CD Creator 4.02 / DAO (Mode1/Mode2).
   Fixed a bug that would prevent some Compaq PCs
     from booting to this CD-RW drive.
   Fixed a bug that would hang Nero software if a read
     command was issued while the drive was playing.
   Improved Read performance for CD-TEXT
 v1.08 - Date posted: March 5, 2001
   Improved write performance of 16X media from Taiyo
     Yuden, Mitsubishi Chemical, Mitsui and Maxell
   Improved read performance of High Speed RW media.
   Added support for the Buffer Play function to improve
     playability of scratched discs.
   Improved read performance to get UPC/ISRC information.
   Improved mounting of CD-Extra discs to prevent
     misidentifying them as an audio disc.
Do any of these fixes seem to address the problem I am having?

- try the 8.0.199 build of MJ, there was a bug fix in the ripper module
 I've downloaded v.199 and will be trying to rip some CDs tonight. I'll
 try both wav and Mp3 encode (not simultaneously)

Any other things to try? From the (mature) responses I'm getting from others
on this thread, they recommend reinstalling Windows. Obviously, I am really
hesitant to do this. The "invalid page fault" in module KERNEL32.DLL is the
operating system, I suppose, not MJ8? If so, is it pretty impossible to tell
from the info that is dumped where within the OS it is page faulting?

[KingSparta]

i'm not mature but reinstaling may help

or

upgrading at least to windows ME, windows 98 has problems (well so does windows me, but less)

[aRCLiGHT]

Alright, just to throw in my .02 cents (I know JimH you'll love it) - I have experienced the same problem in other versions with the never-ending error message.  I have never seen it on my Win2k systems, so I would almost bet that it is an issue with Win98.  I have had this one Win98 system running for over two (2) years without a rebuild (can you believe it?) and should probably start from scratch soon.

Adam, if you have the flexibility to re-install Windows, you may just want too.  To many applications leave so much garbage in the OS that chances are yours and my never-ending error loop is probably the cause of some old DLL left lying around.  I bought MJ at version 6 after having tested version 5 & 6 and found this to be a pretty stable application under Win98.  Under Win2k, this application rocks!!!  Hang in there!!!!!!!!!

aRCLiGHT

[JimH]

adam
> I'll tone it down a little. Please consider doing the same.

thanks and OK, done.

JohnT wrote the CD writer code.  We use two libraries from third parties, so that adds complexity.

John is the last word, but ASPI may be the problem.  Take a look at some other threads here.  Doof had some insight and Charlemagne8 posted a thread a couple days ago on the topic.

[Doof]

Any other things to try? From the (mature) responses I'm getting from others
on this thread, they recommend reinstalling Windows. Obviously, I am really
hesitant to do this. The "invalid page fault" in module KERNEL32.DLL is the
operating system, I suppose, not MJ8? If so, is it pretty impossible to tell
from the info that is dumped where within the OS it is page faulting?

See, I would have told you to do this (I've worked in as a PC tech for many years and see this sort of thing a lot), but you quite sternly informed us that you absolutely would not do this. So I didn't.

But now that we're all toning it down (I can be mature too, honest.) here are some things that experience has shown it could be.

First of all, try setting your CD-ROM type to IDE instead of ASPI in MJ's Device Settings. If that doesn't help, I'd start suspecting a driver. Either CD-ROM (which you said you updated) or maybe an IDE/SCSI controller. If that doesn't help, it's kind of a toss up between the OS and RAM, in my mind. If it were RAM, you'd probably be experiencing a lot of crashes and hangs from many different things. Of course, it could also just be that MJ somehow manages to be the only app that accesses a particular portion of memory. Try downloading a good RAM testing application and let it do a complete RAM test, not just a quick test. If you have access to RAM that you could temporarily replace yours with, you might want to try that as well and see if the problem goes away. You could also have corrupt system files, which happens way more than it should in Windows 9x. In the case of a corrupt system file, sometimes simply installing Windows over itself without formatting will do the trick. And sometimes it requires a full system format. Time consuming, but sometimes the only choice.

It's pretty obvious to me at least that this is not really an MJ bug. Or at the very least, there might be something specific about your system that MJ is conflicting with. Reboots I could see being caused my MJ (in the case of accessing a bad portion of RAM), but there's no way I see it causing hard drive corruption.

Do you have any other applications running in the background that MJ could possibly be conflicting with? Try shutting down everything that you don't absolutely need to be running. That pretty much includes everything. If you bring up Task Manager, you should see only Explorer.exe and... Systray.exe(? I think that's the one - it's been a while since I've worked on a 9x system). Everything else is just using up resources and presenting a potential conflict. If you do find that this seems to clear it up, then you'll need to experiment, shutting only one thing down at a time until you find the culprit. And once you do, you need to decide which app is more important to you. I would be especially interested if you have any disk utilities running in the background. Norton Utilities, etc. Of course the drive failures could simply be the result of repeated improper shutdowns leading to corrupt system files.

Fixing this type of problem is time consuming and tedious. That's why computer techs make the big bucks. Or used to.

[JohnT]

Adam-

Just running the aspichk.exe program won't do any harm to your other software, it doesn't install any DLL's, it just reports on the current state of any existing Aspi dll's found on your system.

Search for a file on your system called "wnaspint.dll" or "wnaspi9x.dll" and try renaming them if they exist. MJ does not cooperate well with these.

The cd driver update you mentioned sounds promising since it sounds like they fixed some pretty major problems.