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[orangeart]

Hello all, This is my first time on this forum so I am just introducing myself along with my first question. This looks like a very active forum which is good to see. I haven't bought the software yet but am hoping it will do good things for me.

A long time ago I remember reading about the audio engine being available as an ASIO driver and that in the not to distant future the dev's were looking to support the audio engine as a WDM driver. I notice there has now been a new release so assumed that this would be a part of it, I can't see it mentioned in the change logs though so maybe it hasn't got through to the final release? Can anyone confirm that for me and does anyone know when it might happen.

Currently I am using a miniDSP sharc board to do my routing / crossover / DRC duties and it work brilliantly, however I'd like to save a bit of space and free up some cash by selling all the dacs (buffaloes) and the miniDSP and move over to a software routing solution with VST that can be presented to the whole system as a WDM driver. As far as I can see there aren't any other products that would allow this to happen.

I guess one option would be to use some software like 'Virtual Audio Cable' to connect to the MC ASIO driver and then do routing / VST / convolution from there then out to a multichannel sound card? This whole signal chain could then be presented to the whole OS via the VAC soundcard. Does anyone else do this? is it even possible? If so has anyone got a few link or a little tutorial they could point me in the direction of please.

My kids use this PC for surfing on and I want to avoid a situation where they could send a full range - full level signal to my tweeters. If i went this route would the virtual drive and audio engine start with the system? In other words, if i set the VAC or MC WDM to be the system default audio path would this persist over a reboot? Would the whole JRiver program need to be running to use the audio engine?

Many many thanks

Stefan

[Matt]

Welcome.

The WDM driver isn't released yet.  Hopefully in the next few months.

[orangeart]

Thanks for the reply Matt, What a shame.

Have you got any other comments on my thoughts that would confirm that I am at least barking up the correct tree

Stefan

[6233638]

What I do in my setup is have Media Center send audio to the ASIO driver for my DAC, and disable the device in the Windows Control Panel. (which is the WDM driver for it)
 
This way, no application other than Media Center (or other ASIO-capable programs, I suppose) can send audio to the device.
 
All my system audio is then routed to another audio device on the system (the HDMI output in this case) and sent to the display.
This would not send audio out over your speakers, but would prevent a full-level signal being sent to them and blowing out the tweeters.
 
Since my TV also has an optical output, it is then hooked into my DAC on a separate input, so that I do have the option of listening to system audio through it as well - but you may or may not want that.

[mwillems]

Hello all, This is my first time on this forum so I am just introducing myself along with my first question. This looks like a very active forum which is good to see. I haven't bought the software yet but am hoping it will do good things for me.

A long time ago I remember reading about the audio engine being available as an ASIO driver and that in the not to distant future the dev's were looking to support the audio engine as a WDM driver. I notice there has now been a new release so assumed that this would be a part of it, I can't see it mentioned in the change logs though so maybe it hasn't got through to the final release? Can anyone confirm that for me and does anyone know when it might happen.

Currently I am using a miniDSP sharc board to do my routing / crossover / DRC duties and it work brilliantly, however I'd like to save a bit of space and free up some cash by selling all the dacs (buffaloes) and the miniDSP and move over to a software routing solution with VST that can be presented to the whole system as a WDM driver. As far as I can see there aren't any other products that would allow this to happen.

JRiver can definitely replace your minidsp with a software crossover/DSP, it just may not be entirely automatic at the moment.  If you don't currently have a multi-channel DAC though, you'd need one in order for that to work obviously.  JRiver currently has a "loopback" functionality that allows you to route all system audio through JRiver; it differs from the proposed WDM driver in two key ways: 1) It needs a dummy audio device set as default (most people use their motherboard soundcard) and 2) you have to turn it on first (it's not automatic).  That's obviously less convenient, but you could use that functionality to "test out" how JRiver works as a system processor using the 30 day free trial for JRiver.  

I guess one option would be to use some software like 'Virtual Audio Cable' to connect to the MC ASIO driver and then do routing / VST / convolution from there then out to a multichannel sound card? This whole signal chain could then be presented to the whole OS via the VAC soundcard. Does anyone else do this? is it even possible? If so has anyone got a few link or a little tutorial they could point me in the direction of please.

I would recommend against using VAC specifically, I tried it and had poor results (lots of static).  However, Asio Bridge works great as an input for JRiver as an alternative option.  Check out this thread: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=84993.0 .  If/when the WDM is released it will probably obviate the need for such a workaround.

And FWIW, I currently use JRiver as my entire routing/DSP/crossover using a multichannel DAC hooked directly to poweramps.  Having to manually enable loopback for system sounds/web playback is not super-convenient, but it works.  If you have any questions about how to do EQ or routing in JRiver, I'm happy to help.

My kids use this PC for surfing on and I want to avoid a situation where they could send a full range - full level signal to my tweeters. If i went this route would the virtual drive and audio engine start with the system? In other words, if i set the VAC or MC WDM to be the system default audio path would this persist over a reboot? Would the whole JRiver program need to be running to use the audio engine?

MC can be configured to start up on boot, but the methods of channeling system sound to MC right now need to be manually enabled (or could potentially be enabled through scripting).  That may change with the WDM driver.  With loopback JRiver needs to be running to intercept system sounds, with the ASIO input you may only need MC's tray widget running (it's been a while since I used the ASIO bridge so others may chime in).  

On the volume issue, MC has excellent volume controls built in.  Specifically, check out the "Maximum Volume" and "Volume Protection" options for more info.  As I said, I have a multichannel DAC hooked directly to poweramps, and have for nearly two years now; using those two options MC's volume implementation has been rock solid for me.

6233638's advice is also very good; I have my system default output set to a different sound card than the one hooked up to my speakers for the same reason (and because it facilitates loopback)

[mojave]

I've used WASAPI Loopback for over two years now for routing game and internet audio (YouTube, etc.) through JRiver. It works quite well, but there are latency issues sometimes with YouTube audio.

My family uses it with no problems. All you have to do is start the loopback and then assign a radio button to it. Whenever you click the radio button, JRiver is in loopback mode.

ASIO Bridge from VB-Audio Cable now works better and has lower latency than WASAPI Loopback. It automatically routes all audio going to the default audio device through JRiver. There is more info in this thread:
JRiver ASIO Audio driver as default Windows driver? I would recommend this method since it always works and is completely "invisible."

You need to check "Tools > Options > Audio > Advanced > Live playback latency" for the best settings when using WASAPI Loopback.
[/quote]

[orangeart]

Thanks everyone for all the replies, it has been most helpful and has certainly given me food for thought. I've decided to definitely sell the DACS and mini DSP and get myself a multi channel audio interface instead, maybe I'll lose a bit of quality but hey ho. I thought I'd give the behringer 610 or a whirl, there are mixed reports but for those who have a unit that functions correctly they seem to do the job, I know it won't sound as good as a Focusrite or RME etc but them they wouldn't have sounded as good as my Buffalo dacs anyhow os in for a penny in for a pound If I'm trying to save money I may as well try and save a chunk!!

JRiver can definitely replace your minidsp with a software crossover/DSP, it just may not be entirely automatic at the moment.  If you don't currently have a multi-channel DAC though, you'd need one in order for that to work obviously.  JRiver currently has a "loopback" functionality that allows you to route all system audio through JRiver; it differs from the proposed WDM driver in two key ways: 1) It needs a dummy audio device set as default (most people use their motherboard soundcard) and 2) you have to turn it on first (it's not automatic).  That's obviously less convenient, but you could use that functionality to "test out" how JRiver works as a system processor using the 30 day free trial for JRiver.  

That sounds like a plan, how do I turn that on then? I've had a look around the jriver audio config tabs and can't really seem to get my head round it

I would recommend against using VAC specifically, I tried it and had poor results (lots of static).  However, Asio Bridge works great as an input for JRiver as an alternative option.  Check out this thread: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=84993.0 .  If/when the WDM is released it will probably obviate the need for such a workaround.

OK, so this is instead of using the loopback function, right? I've downloaded ASIO bridge to have a look round, no documentation and I haven't really had time to play, a quick heads up would really be appreciated or a link to a quick tutorial.

And FWIW, I currently use JRiver as my entire routing/DSP/crossover using a multichannel DAC hooked directly to poweramps.  Having to manually enable loopback for system sounds/web playback is not super-convenient, but it works.  If you have any questions about how to do EQ or routing in JRiver, I'm happy to help.

Thanks for the offer, that is exactly what I need so lets say I have system > ASIO bridge > MC > behringer ASIO driver (obviously not seen this yet) > 6 channels of Behringer FCA610 > amps, how do I make all of this work using the settings to get the routing correct? let's not worry about crossover filters, DSP etc at the moment. Maybe I could should make this simpler, using the above chain but outputting to the standard audio outputs in my laptop sound card to check that it all works and when I add and EQ it changes the sound coming out of the speakers, so - System > ASIO bridge > MC (lets say with some EQ or other obvious test effect > system default audio driver > 2 channels of equalised audio coming out of laptop speakers.

MC can be configured to start up on boot, but the methods of channeling system sound to MC right now need to be manually enabled (or could potentially be enabled through scripting).  That may change with the WDM driver.  With loopback JRiver needs to be running to intercept system sounds, with the ASIO input you may only need MC's tray widget running (it's been a while since I used the ASIO bridge so others may chime in).  

On the volume issue, MC has excellent volume controls built in.  Specifically, check out the "Maximum Volume" and "Volume Protection" options for more info.  As I said, I have a multichannel DAC hooked directly to poweramps, and have for nearly two years now; using those two options MC's volume implementation has been rock solid for me.

OK, so when I start the PC (which normally stays running until windoze does something daft) I'd need to start MC and go through the entire process or setting up routing etc or can I just load the settings each time from a file? Where is the tray widget? I think that the ASIO bridge is supposed to automatically start the ASIO driver host app (MC in this case) when audio is sent through it.

Thanks for all your help. I feel a bit ignorant about all this!!

Cheers

Stefan

It's reasurring

[mwillems]

That sounds like a plan, how do I turn that on then? I've had a look around the jriver audio config tabs and can't really seem to get my head round it

Check out this thread: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=70242.msg486195#msg486195

OK, so this is instead of using the loopback function, right? I've downloaded ASIO bridge to have a look round, no documentation and I haven't really had time to play, a quick heads up would really be appreciated or a link to a quick tutorial.

Yes you'd use it instead of loopback.  Try reading through the thread I linked above, it explains how to use it.

Thanks for the offer, that is exactly what I need so lets say I have system > ASIO bridge > MC > behringer ASIO driver (obviously not seen this yet) > 6 channels of Behringer FCA610 > amps, how do I make all of this work using the settings to get the routing correct? let's not worry about crossover filters, DSP etc at the moment. Maybe I could should make this simpler, using the above chain but outputting to the standard audio outputs in my laptop sound card to check that it all works and when I add and EQ it changes the sound coming out of the speakers, so - System > ASIO bridge > MC (lets say with some EQ or other obvious test effect > system default audio driver > 2 channels of equalised audio coming out of laptop speakers.

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking?  Loopback will pass through what it gets (whether stereo or multichannel) which JRiver will map to the correct channels depending on your settings in output format or parametric equalizer.  The "crossover filters, DSP, etc." that you suggest not worrying about are the hard part, everything should work correctly once you setup the ASIO bridge and setup your output format in DSP studio. 

You have a good idea with trying it out with the laptop soundcard first.  Try setting it up, and I'm happy to answer any specific questions you may have.

OK, so when I start the PC (which normally stays running until windoze does something daft) I'd need to start MC and go through the entire process or setting up routing etc or can I just load the settings each time from a file? Where is the tray widget? I think that the ASIO bridge is supposed to automatically start the ASIO driver host app (MC in this case) when audio is sent through it.

I don't routinely use the ASIO bridge so mojave or someone who uses it regularly can confirm whether it autostarts on system boot.  For the mediacenter part of the equation, you just need to configure the startup options in the MC options menu.  If you choose to start MC on boot, you'll get the full program, if you choose to start Media Server on boot, you'll get the tray widget.

[orangeart]

Thanks for all that, I'll start having a play around now then. I found a few good tutorials on this site as well that should be of help. Ultimately I'll want to be  using a convolver to process my crossover filters. My prefered way of creating filters is with the brilliant RePhase. I'm sure once I have had a fiddle and found my way around the idiosyncrasies of jriver will be clearer. I'll pop by to ask questions every now and again.

Thanks so far.

Stefan

[orangeart]

I've managed to do some routing and have even been successful send audio to the ASIO drive via asio bridge, however I do have one slight problem in that ASIO bridge shows a driver for MC19 and MC20 which seems odd. It wouldn't bother me to much but it seems to be pot luck as to which one is going to work one time it 19 the next time it's 20 with the other one not working which means it will be difficult to automate anything. Anyone else have this problem?

Also the SR shown in ASI bridge jumps about all over the place, it never drops out but the rate flashes red as ti moves up and down before settling for a while.

Any ideas?

Stefan

[mwillems]

I've managed to do some routing and have even been successful send audio to the ASIO drive via asio bridge, however I do have one slight problem in that ASIO bridge shows a driver for MC19 and MC20 which seems odd. It wouldn't bother me to much but it seems to be pot luck as to which one is going to work one time it 19 the next time it's 20 with the other one not working which means it will be difficult to automate anything. Anyone else have this problem?

Also the SR shown in ASI bridge jumps about all over the place, it never drops out but the rate flashes red as ti moves up and down before settling for a while.

Any ideas?

Stefan

It sounds like you have both JRiver 19 and 20 installed, which is complicating things.  My first suggestion would be to uninstall one of them.  Barring that, you can disable the ASIO driver in the one you don't want to use.

[orangeart]

That was what I thought, I've never installed it before though and it doesn't show in my programs list. I'll have a scan for a ghost instal.

Stefan