Topic: HDMI audio/video input from any unencrypted source (Read 68700 times)

nwboater · « **Reply #100 on:** August 15, 2015, 04:37:10 pm »

Quote from: Spanker on August 15, 2015, 04:18:02 pm

Hi Rod,

the Colossus works allright but be sure to be okay with the delay it introduces.
This is because of the onboard decoding on the card.
On my HTPC it had a delay of around 1.5-2 sec.
Couldn't get it any faster.

Thanks for the response.

Is the delay in both audio and video or just one? If both are the same that might be ok. I'm not using it for gaming. But I guess things like seeking (rewind or FF) might be cumbersome. Were there other things this delay affected for you?

I guess they have solved some of the old problems my HDPVR had that required a reset now and then?

Cheers,
Rod

Spanker · « **Reply #101 on:** August 16, 2015, 09:13:55 am »

Rod,

the delay is audio and video, MC keeps both neatly in sync.
For me the delay was annoying because I wanted to use it for watching Sat TV.
Zapping channels is quite impossible with a delay of 1.5-2 sec.
Basically all the commands that happen at the source will be delayed.
If you can live with these restrictions it should work for you.

I don't use my Colossus anymore because of the delay. I coud sell it to you, were it not that i'm in Europe ;-)
I used the Decklink after that, which has no (hardly) delay, but a crappy driver that doesn't save it's settings.
In the end I gave up on it.

There are other solutions, Mojave is very knowledgable on the subject, not sure he's reading this though.

nwboater · « **Reply #102 on:** August 16, 2015, 02:26:03 pm »

Quote from: Spanker on August 16, 2015, 09:13:55 am

Rod,

the delay is audio and video, MC keeps both neatly in sync.
For me the delay was annoying because I wanted to use it for watching Sat TV.
Zapping channels is quite impossible with a delay of 1.5-2 sec.
Basically all the commands that happen at the source will be delayed.
If you can live with these restrictions it should work for you.

I don't use my Colossus anymore because of the delay. I coud sell it to you, were it not that i'm in Europe ;-)
I used the Decklink after that, which has no (hardly) delay, but a crappy driver that doesn't save it's settings.
In the end I gave up on it.

There are other solutions, Mojave is very knowledgable on the subject, not sure he's reading this though.

Thanks for the further clarifications.

I will not be using it for Television. It will be the interface to a Roku Media Streamer and I am trying to sort out how bad the frustration factor will be from the delay after any commands.

It seems that both of the Black Magic devices have problems and are not presently usable with MC.

I will contact Mojave to get further clarification since he earlier mentioned a friend using the Colossus to interface a Direct TV Signal. I'm wondering if the Colossus delay was an issue for him.

Also dwaleke seemed to have success using an HDPVR2, although he was not pleased with the audio formats available. As best I can tell, it and the Colossus2 are functionally the same devices. The former is housed in its own enclosure and the latter is a PC card. I will also try to contact dwaleke to see if the delay presented problems for him. He used it for streaming Netflix from a Chromecast which is very similar to what I want to do with a Roku.

Any other comments would sure be appreciated.

Thanks,
Rod

mojave · « **Reply #103 on:** August 16, 2015, 04:23:19 pm »

I loaned out the HTPC is was using for testing, but still have two Blackmagic cards and a Colossus 2 sitting here to install in another HTPC and do some testing.

Yes, a friend is using the Colossus 2 for streaming from satellite. It isn't setup in JRiver as a DVR, but as a capture card. He then uses the DirecTV app on his iPad to control channels, etc. There doesn't seem to be any noticeable delay issues, but convolution isn't being used for TV either. I'll be at his house next weekend and can do a little more testing.

nwboater · « **Reply #104 on:** August 16, 2015, 07:30:55 pm »

Quote from: mojave on August 16, 2015, 04:23:19 pm

I loaned out the HTPC is was using for testing, but still have two Blackmagic cards and a Colossus 2 sitting here to install in another HTPC and do some testing.

Yes, a friend is using the Colossus 2 for streaming from satellite. It isn't setup in JRiver as a DVR, but as a capture card. He then uses the DirecTV app on his iPad to control channels, etc. There doesn't seem to be any noticeable delay issues, but convolution isn't being used for TV either. I'll be at his house next weekend and can do a little more testing.

Thanks very much for the update. Will be interesting to get the results of your further testing.

I'm not clear on how the IPAD DirecTV app works but would assume it acts as a remote for the STB. If so then he must look at the TV for the results of his actions on the IPAD. If the delay is not bothering him that is encouraging.

Cheers,
Rod

nwboater · « **Reply #105 on:** August 18, 2015, 10:49:53 am »

I was looking at BHPhoto for pricing and info on the Black Magic Intensity Pro 4k card. Saw this is on an Aug 3rd review of the card.
"Make sure you install the latest version of Desktop Video from Blackmagic's website so it installs the latest firmware." For those of you that own the card I'm wondering if that might refer to a recent update that could solve the problems?

Cheers,
Rod

dwalme · « **Reply #106 on:** September 12, 2015, 01:38:29 am »

Quote from: Yaobing on July 09, 2015, 09:51:19 am

Sorry, there is no progress. Their support told me to try the next release of their driver. So far 10.4.1.0 displays the same behavior as before.

10.5 seems to be better. Although I don't think this works automatically in JRiver yet. However their media application will dynamically change the resolution to match the input signal.

I can get video and audio working correctly. Although it doesn't play smoothly. Video is smooth without time shifting, but audio is out of sync (I use convolution). When time shifting the video/audio is almost in sync, but I don't get smooth playback.

Oh and the fan no longer runs 100%. The card is actually quiet now.

This is the farthest I've ever got with this thing. It's possible one day it will work.

dwalme · « **Reply #107 on:** December 18, 2015, 12:05:55 pm »

Anyone has anymore luck on this topic?

Spanker · « **Reply #108 on:** December 29, 2015, 11:53:27 am »

Hi dwaleke,

I'm happy to report that driver 10.5 got my Decklink properly working and saving the settings.
Once in a while I have to restore the settings, but this is occasionally.
The lip sync is off by maybe 30-50msec (audio is late) which I can't get corrected unless using time shifting, which introduces a total delay of around 5 second.
To keep audio delay to a minimum I use convolution with minimum delay filters (a convenient option in Audiolense).
As an alternative I tried the parametric eq option, but didn´t get better results concerning lip sync.
Also I input progressive video, with interlaced I get lines in the picture.
All in all I can live with it.

If you have questions, let me know.

If someone has any suggestions to fix the above, I´m all ears.

GrandeBoma · « **Reply #109 on:** April 06, 2016, 09:11:21 am »

The magewell devices for hd capture have a developers kit which uses directshow filters. The cards seem to have the best support for 4k video and for multichannel pcm audio out there. It is rather curious that nobody tried them yet?

millst · « **Reply #110 on:** April 06, 2016, 01:39:11 pm »

Not to me. To begin with, I doubt many people are even experimenting and then they cost more.

-tm

mattkhan · « **Reply #111 on:** July 19, 2016, 01:58:29 pm »

I notice that the driver is up to v10.7 now, is it stable in jriver yet?

zydeco · « **Reply #112 on:** October 26, 2016, 12:48:09 pm »

Quote from: mattkhan on July 19, 2016, 01:58:29 pm

I notice that the driver is up to v10.7 now, is it stable in jriver yet?

Great thread - I've just been pointed in it's direction from another member after a fair while wondering how to integrate external A/V sources. What is the status of the Black Magic Intensity pro 4K integration with the latest V22 release of JRiver? And, to confirm, is it correct that JRiver will deal with the A/V delay caused by convolution filters just as it does when playing a video file natively?

zydeco · « **Reply #113 on:** October 29, 2016, 03:51:04 am »

Any feedback on the status of the Black Magic Intensity Pro 4K integration with JRiver?

Yaobing · « **Reply #114 on:** October 29, 2016, 08:56:58 pm »

Sorry, I have not had time to look into this matter for a while. I will take a look again, maybe soon.

loddie · « **Reply #115 on:** January 11, 2017, 07:04:56 pm »

I'm also interested in a capture card so I can use JRiver to delay the video signal. FWIW, I'll most likely be using a Mac, and I'm particularly interested in learning if the Blackmagic Intensity Pro 4K card works now with the updated drivers and new versions of JRM.

Big thanks to those in the thread who invested money and reported results so far! It would be great if further testing is done...but I may have to risk buying one as this thread's activity has slowed down...

loddie · « **Reply #116 on:** January 21, 2017, 11:06:33 pm »

Inspired by this thread, I purchased a Black Magic Intensity Pro 4k card. Was intending to use with JRiver on a Mac. However, at this time, TV (capture) is not support on a Mac.

So I tried the BM Intensity Pro 4k on a Windows 7 computer. The good news is I was able to get an HDMI signal into JRiver. The bad news is my motherboard can't support a PCI 2.0 graphics card AND the BM Intensity Pro. Thus, I had to remove the graphics card. Unfortunately the motherboard graphics card is horrible.

Does anyone know how to output the video signal from the BM Intensity Pro 4K? My video path is AppleTV4>HMDI stripper>BM Intensity Pro 4K (input)>JRiver (for video delay)>BM Intensity Pro 4K (output)>Projector.

FWIW, I'm only using JRiver in this instance for its video delay feature. Thus, I don't care if the sound doesn't work.

mattkhan · « **Reply #117 on:** January 22, 2017, 02:46:56 am »

Just to check, you have multi channel audio and video working ok with that card and jriver?

loddie · « **Reply #118 on:** January 22, 2017, 09:40:06 am »

Hi Matt, thanks for checking in. I don't think there was any audio (didn't even check), but I don't care as JRiver in this instance is for video delay only. So I'm routing HDMI into the BM Intensity Pro 4K into JRiver for video delay (to compensate for audio processing time) and back out the BM Intensity Pro 4K.

If my PC could house both the BM capture card and a Radeon HD5770 I have, then I could just use the Radeon output to the projector. Unfortunately it won't hold both. Thus, it would be nice to use the BM for HDMI input and output. So video HDMI input works in JRiver, but I'm not sure how to set up the same BM card for HDMI output.

I actually missed a step in my video path: AppleTV4>Pioneer SC95>HMDI stripper>PC [BM Intensity Pro 4K (input)>JRiver (for video delay)>BM Intensity Pro 4K (output)]>Projector.

dwalme · « **Reply #119 on:** January 22, 2017, 10:01:58 am »

I don't think you can do any video output with the BM card in JRiver. JRiver is not designed for that kind of output.

loddie · « **Reply #120 on:** January 22, 2017, 10:22:06 am »

Ok, I guess the best solution will be to use the output from a graphics card (e.g., Radeon HD 5770). No worries. I've been needing an excuse to replace this PC so I'll find a motherboard which supports both a graphics card and the BM.

Thanks for you help!

mattkhan · « **Reply #121 on:** January 22, 2017, 10:57:09 am »

Any chance you could give it a try to see if you get multichannel audio through it ok?

loddie · « **Reply #122 on:** January 22, 2017, 09:22:56 pm »

Yes, but it will take some time. Awaiting parts to arrive.

loddie · « **Reply #123 on:** July 31, 2018, 01:36:54 pm »

For anyone trying to set up the Blackmagic Intensity Pro 4K PCI capture card with JRiver, I started a dedicated thread here: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,116904.0.html

nwboater · « **Reply #124 on:** July 15, 2019, 12:14:36 pm »

After giving up on this for some time I decided to get into it again.

When I first tried it with my then new Hauppauge Colossus there was too much lip sync disparity for my wife to watch it. I recently thought I should try it again with the newer MC lip sync adjustments that are available. As I was using it in Live TV (Capture) mode these adjustments did nothing which was very discouraging.

I then read some different threads that discussed similar issues and I found that it should work using time shifting. In the TV setup I checked 'Start analog devices in time shifting mode'. (Note that the Colossus is an Analog Device in MC). When I tried it again the video and audio were in sync. WOW! This is a huge step!

The only problem now is the delay when using a Remote to control the input device. There is a delay of 3-8 seconds which is very frustrating. I guess with Time Shifting there must be some delay, but I wonder if there are any ways to minimize it?

Yaobing any ideas here please?

Cheers,
Rod

mojave · « **Reply #125 on:** July 15, 2019, 04:24:35 pm »

I'm sorry you just found out about using time shifting. It has been working well with the Hauppauge Colossus for years.

What is your source? A friend has the Colossus 2 and uses the app for DirecTV on his phone or tablet to actually manage channel changes. Perhaps your source has an app you could use.

mattkhan · « **Reply #126 on:** July 15, 2019, 05:01:50 pm »

I had the same problem with the Colossus and interactive menus being unusable due to the lag. I switched to a magewell usb device instead as that does work in live mode with no lag, unfortunately not in MC though so I have to use another app (mpc-be) for video and MC for audio (via wdm)

nwboater · « **Reply #127 on:** July 15, 2019, 08:23:11 pm »

Quote from: mojave on July 15, 2019, 04:24:35 pm

I'm sorry you just found out about using time shifting. It has been working well with the Hauppauge Colossus for years.

What is your source? A friend has the Colossus 2 and uses the app for DirecTV on his phone or tablet to actually manage channel changes. Perhaps your source has an app you could use.

Thanks Mojave. Good idea to control via a phone.

We are using the Telus PikTv here in Canada. It's a cord cutters cheap way to have a few TV channels at very low cost. It uses a proprietary AndroidTV Box. They have an Android app to watch their TV on your smart phone, but not a Remote Control App. So no joy there unfortunately.

The other stuff we watch is on our Roku: Netflix, Amazon Prime, YouTube and a few others. Roku has a good Android app which I just set up on a phone and will do some playing with later.

So even though changing TV channels will be a little frustrating, having everything go through our HTPC will be a mostly very positive experience. Having good sound is worth a LOT to me, although Sandra barely notices the difference!

I am still hoping that Yaobing may have some way that I can minimize the lag although that may be an impossible wish.

Cheers,
Rod

Yaobing · « **Reply #128 on:** July 15, 2019, 09:17:47 pm »

Quote from: nwboater on July 15, 2019, 12:14:36 pm

The only problem now is the delay when using a Remote to control the input device. There is a delay of 3-8 seconds which is very frustrating. I guess with Time Shifting there must be some delay, but I wonder if there are any ways to minimize it?

Are you using the remote directly with the input device (your TV source) instead of controlling MC? To change channel?

nwboater · « **Reply #129 on:** July 15, 2019, 10:43:50 pm »

Quote from: Yaobing on July 15, 2019, 09:17:47 pm

Are you using the remote directly with the input device (your TV source) instead of controlling MC? To change channel?

Hi Yaobing - Thanks for getting back to me on this. Yes I am controlling the input device with its own remote. And it's not just channel changes, it's any changes made by the remote. There are similar delays showing on the TV box and the Roku. They each have their own remote. After hitting any key on either remote there is a multi second delay.

Thanks,
Rod

Yaobing · « **Reply #130 on:** July 16, 2019, 08:53:53 am »

Time-shifting carries an internal delay that is difficult to get rid of. If it is only for channel changing, I still recommend using a remote through MC, so that MC knows about the change and will do a seek to jump to the position where the new channel is started.

For other changes that you make on the external device, the only thing I can think of is for you to manually force a "jump to live" operation after you make a change.

nwboater · « **Reply #131 on:** July 17, 2019, 06:57:44 pm »

Quote from: Yaobing on July 16, 2019, 08:53:53 am

Time-shifting carries an internal delay that is difficult to get rid of. If it is only for channel changing, I still recommend using a remote through MC, so that MC knows about the change and will do a seek to jump to the position where the new channel is started.

For other changes that you make on the external device, the only thing I can think of is for you to manually force a "jump to live" operation after you make a change.

Our Pik TV does not use a standard STB that could easily be run through MC. It also doesn't have a public Guide.

Since we watch more Movies and YouTube than TV I would guess about 80-90% of our button presses are not TV related.

I'm not sure what you mean by "manually force a "jump to live" operation after you make a change." If it was live instead of Time Shifted then I would be back to having the Lip Sync issues. Or perhaps I misunderstand you.

Thanks,
Rod

Yaobing · « **Reply #132 on:** July 17, 2019, 10:33:54 pm »

Quote from: nwboater on July 17, 2019, 06:57:44 pm

I'm not sure what you mean by "manually force a "jump to live" operation after you make a change." If it was live instead of Time Shifted then I would be back to having the Lip Sync issues. Or perhaps I misunderstand you.

"Jump to live" means jump to the latest time. Right-click, TV Options > Go to latest time. Or just press the right arrow key once if you are already near the latest time.

nwboater · « **Reply #133 on:** July 18, 2019, 11:34:48 am »

Quote from: Yaobing on July 17, 2019, 10:33:54 pm

"Jump to live" means jump to the latest time. Right-click, TV Options > Go to latest time. Or just press the right arrow key once if you are already near the latest time.

This made a multi second difference and now has about a 2 second delay after various button presses. I think we can live with that. Thanks very much Yaobing. Now I just need to see if I can program one of the buttons on our Logitech remote to send a 'right arrow'.

From the limited testing I have done it seems that doing this only once is necessary after Capture starts. I can change programs, pause, etc on the devices remote and it stays in 'Live'.

It's so nice to always have the lip sync right on!

BTW the terminology 'Jump to Live' was confusing to me since we are running in Time Shifted mode.

Cheers,
Rod

Yaobing · « **Reply #134 on:** July 18, 2019, 12:40:18 pm »

Since you can not time-shift into future, "live" just means time-shifted by 0 second, ideally. In our actual implementation it means "time-shifted by approximately 2 seconds", or "Within 2 seconds of live".

nwboater · « **Reply #135 on:** July 18, 2019, 03:08:52 pm »

Quote from: Yaobing on July 18, 2019, 12:40:18 pm

Since you can not time-shift into future, "live" just means time-shifted by 0 second, ideally. In our actual implementation it means "time-shifted by approximately 2 seconds", or "Within 2 seconds of live".

Thanks for all your help here Yaobing.

Cheers,
Rod

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Author Topic: HDMI audio/video input from any unencrypted source (Read 68700 times)