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[nwboater]

I have owned an Ausus Essence ST internal soundcard with H6 daughter board for a couple of years. Although basically happy with it I do notice that violins tend to sometimes sound a bit screechy (We listen to a lot of classical music). Now this could be a result of our horn speakers or the recordings, but if I recall Mojave said a long time ago that he upgraded to a better DAC because of the highs being somewhat irritating with the Essence ST.

If I do upgrade I have basically narrowed my search to a Steinberg UR824 USB or a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20. Several on this forum own these and have commented very favorably. The Steinberg is a fair bit more money and it is difficult to know if it is worth it.

So my questions are:
1. Has anyone had the opportunity to do a comparison between the Steinberg and Focusrite? if so what were the results.
2. Should I expect the sound quality, especially the highs, to be a fair bit better with either of these over the Essence ST?
3. Mojave has reported that the Steinberg automatically switches sample rates without any pops or clicks. Can the same be said for the focusrite?
4. Any other comments about what differences I might notice between either of these and my Essence ST card?

Thanks very much for whatever input you can provide.

Rod

[mwillems]

I haven't heard the focusrite, but I have heard both the Essence ST and the Steinberg, and can offer some observations about what was better after switching.  The main differences I noticed between the two were:

1) Improved noisefloor; the Steinberg was noticeably quieter when nothing was playing (I also have horns with sensitive drivers, and the Asus's noise floor was quite loud with my horn drivers).  Using the balanced outputs on the Steinberg also eliminated some faint ground hum (but I had balanced ins on my amps).
2) Slightly better bass reproduction;  I measured a small improvement in low bass reproduction with the Steinberg (slightly flatter), and I'm not sure why that would be.   
3) Significantly hotter output: the Steinberg can put out a much, much louder signal than the ST.
4) Much better drivers; the Steinberg's drivers are rock solid and never "flake out," whereas I had no end of trouble with the stock Asus drivers (although things were better with the unified drivers).

On the whole the Steinberg "sounded" better, but it's hard to know if that was just a result of not being able to hear the noisefloor anymore. I don't think I measured any differences in the high frequency band. 

FYI, when I first setup my horn, the horn itself required a good bit of EQing before it stopped piercing my ears at high frequencies (especially with violins), so you might want to try taking some measurements to make sure your horn doesn't just have an untreated resonance up there somewhere.  One thing that seemed counter-intuitive to me was that a flat high frequency response sounded (perceptually) extremely bright to me, uncomfortably so.  I needed to create a gradual slope downward starting at about 1KHz or 2 KHz  and finishing up between -6 and -10dB at 20KHz.  That's ultimately what sounded "flat" to me, and many others have recommended something similar, including Bob Katz (a -6dB slope between 1KHz and 20KHz). 

This may all be old news to you, but I wanted to mention it because it was reallly one of those "a-ha!" moments for me that changed my horn experience for the better in a big way.

[Matt]

I have a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 in my main stereo setup, and I love it.  There's not a lot to say -- just really clean noise and power.

[glynor]

This has tickled my fancy of late:
http://www.m-audio.com/products/view/m-track-eight

[mwillems]

This has tickled my fancy of late:
http://www.m-audio.com/products/view/m-track-eight

Hey glynor, any idea where one might find the electrical specs on that thing?  I can't seem to find any docs on their website (I'm guessing because it's such a new product?).  The price is attractive, and it seems like it might be a good no frills interface, assuming it has better specs than Behringer's 8-channel offerings.

[mojave]

If I made the comment about the Essence ST, it was probably with the stock opamps. I changed the opamps and it changed the sound for the better. The Essence ST and H6 has opamp sockets so you just pull the old ones off and plug in the new ones. I use the Essence ST in my work computer and have probably listened to it more over the years than just about any other soundcard at this point.

For an external multi-channel DAC, the Steinberg UR824 is the best I've used for all around home use. It has higher output voltage than consumer cards, makes no noise on turn on/off even when the amps are on, supports balanced/unbalanced output, makes no click/noise on sample rate change, supports up to 192 kHz with the firmware upgrade, allows the headphone outputs to be routed separately from the speakers, has preamps for mics with phantom power, and sounds great. They also have more frequent driver updates than what I've seen elsewhere with fast support for new OS's.

Just for fun, here are some pictures of all stuff I've had in the past 10 years:
M-Audio Revolution 7.1
Creative Labs X-Fi Elite
ASUS Essence ST with H-6 daughter board
Steinberg MR816 (Firewire)
Steinberg UR824 (USB)
Ross Martin Audio AES Eight (AES)
Solid State Logic Alpha Link (MADI) - I just had a demo unit to test before recommending it to a friend
Lynx Studio Technology Aurora 16-TB (Thunderbolt)

The picture of the Aurora 16 is actually without Thunderbolt. A Thunderbolt card for the Aurora is $595. You can also buy the Aurora with the card installed for $400 more than the standard Aurora. I bought a standard Aurora 16 and called Musicians Friend to see if I could exchange for the Thunderbolt version which was released after my purchase. I was still within 45 days of original purchase and you can return for any reason during this time. Musicians Friend said they would upgrade me to the TB version for a total of $90 and I could keep using the standard version until the new one was in stock. I ended up using the standard version for about 3 months and then shipped it back for exchange. I've always had incredible customer service with Musicians Friend.

In order to reduce circuitry in the signal path and maintain the highest levels of detail, the Ross Martin, SSL, and Lynx don't have mute circuits. For this reason, there are loud pops on turn on/off and some noise when changing sample rates. The noise on the Aurora 16-TB is barely noticeable when switching sample rates, though. It is much quieter through Thunderbolt than AES for some reason. These 3 DACs also all have adjustable output voltage which can be helpful when using EQ or convolution and need to increase the output voltage. Or you might want lower voltage for sensitive speakers.

[nwboater]

Thanks so much guys for all the great responses!

It seems that one could not go at all wrong with the Steinberg. Was also pleased to know that it's SR can be increased to 192 with firmware upgrade. Only issue is the higher price than the others, but it's obviously a proven winner.

Wish I could find a comparison between it and the Focusrite. Or a comparison between the focusrite and the Essence ST.

The new M-Audio is interesting, but with being so new don't think I will consider it. Thanks though Glynor.

mwillems - Thanks for eq (as well as all the other) info. I have done that slope for sometime now with very positive reults. But recently with some new amps on the hf horns I just set the amp gain by ear. Haven't done a REW test yet so quite possibly I have the hf too high now. Also I should play around with a heavier slope.

mojave - You have a serious collection there!!! Wish I could afford your latest, but unfortunately way out of my budget. Do you recall an improvement in actual sound quality when you went from your Essence ST (with upgraded op amps) to the Steinberg?

Thanks again for so much help here.

Cheers,
Rod