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[timcupery]

The Ogg Vorbis tagging system is definitely better than any ID3 tags, largely because it was designed into the ogg filetype, and isn't a hack like ID3 is.  Media Jukebox allows the tagging of ogg files (right-click on the song or a highlighted group of songs, and select "properties" from the pop-up menu), and it's currently the only post-encode tagger that I know of which will work on ogg files and allows processing of multiple files at once.  In Winamp, you can tag ogg files, but only one at a time, and it's a pain to have to type in the album and artist name 10 or 20 times.  However, the Media Jukebox interface for ogg tagging is the same as used for ID3 tagging, which limits ability to ideally use the ogg tagging system as it was designed.  Not too big of a deal.  A bigger issue is explained as follows:

one feature of the ogg file's header is that the release date of the encoder used to create the file is listed.  For example, ogg vorbis rc2 encoder, released 8 August 2001, puts the file header "Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20010813".  Similarly, rc3 encodes have the date 20011231 (or 20011217 for oggenc, which was compiled December 17th but is still the official rc3 encoder).  The problem is, when I update tags in Media Jukebox, it changes the date on rc3-encoded files to 20010813, so the files appear as if they were encoded with vorbis rc2.  It would be good if Media Jukebox fixed this bug so that the encoder release date field of the ogg tag is not modified when tagging with Media Jukebox.  Thanks.

[lijil]

I agree. Ogg has the most versatile tagging system of any format that I know of. Ape also supports custom fields. MJ however always lumps all the 'extended' fields into that MJMETADATA tag, which is not needed with ogg and ape. Also, I think most die hards would prefer if MJ wrote tag field names lowercase, or camelcase with the first letter lowercase. (ie. artist="" and trackNumber="")

[Matt]

>Also, I think most die hards would prefer if MJ wrote tag field names lowercase, or camelcase with the first letter lowercase

At least with Monkey's Audio, you're not free to change the case of predefined tag fields like artist and album.  Case must be standardized so that all programs understand that the "Artist" field is the artist. (APE Tag field names are case sensitive)

>MJ however always lumps all the 'extended' fields into that MJMETADATA tag, which is not needed with ogg and ape

Well, I think the meta data thing is pretty slick.  It's good because it gives MJ the freedom to do whatever it needs without polluting the tag.

-Matt

[lijil]

But why are empty tag fields being written? With ogg for example:

1. get an ogg file with absolutely no tag data attached to it.

2. view its properties in MJ. The track and year fields are displayed as '0' and all others are blank.

3. edit any single field (title in my example), and click 'save'.

4. MJ writes the following to the file:
title=mytitle
artist=
album=
description=
genre=
date=0
tracknumber=0
mjmetadata=

Shouldn't MJ only write the title="mytitle" field and nothing else? MJ's metadata tag is full of empty fields also.

And the only real MJ-specific fields in the mjmetadeta tag are imagefile="" (because MJ has it's own cd cover art database) and rating="". All the custom fields could just be written as a regular ogg tags when they are needed (not empty), albumartist="" I assume is for various artist albums and could also be written as a regular tag when needed.

As for replay gain, it doesn't have to be MJ specific either since there are other players that support it.

Thanks, Mike