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Author Topic: Proposed New Television Setup  (Read 22800 times)

Daveyravey

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Re: Proposed New Television Setup
« Reply #50 on: November 07, 2014, 11:29:12 am »

Whilst watching live TV for example channel 101 if I then enter the guide it automatically defaults to channel 1.could this be changed so whatever channel you are watching and press the guide button the guide goes directly to channel 101. Also if I select live TV surly the default action should be to go to previous channel viewed which is what most PVR's do.

Just a  suggestion.  Grin
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greynolds

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Re: Proposed New Television Setup
« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2014, 08:17:09 pm »

The Recording Format I want to remove if at all possible.  I need to needle Yaobing more about that one.  He explained a lot more about the format behind the scenes (and it doesn't work quite the way many people here think it does).  I think there might be a way to make that choice unnecessary completely.  But, that'd be asking for changes (so out of scope).
If you're only going to keep the JTV format, I would be opposed to doing this as the files aren't in a standard format that can be easily used in other apps.  If for some reason I decide to move away from MC or if there's an issue that prevents me from watching a recording, it's nice to know that I can easily take any existing TV recordings with me / watch them in other software while I wait for the problem to get resolved.

Edit: After reading a bit further, I see you're suggesting the possibility of using JTV format while recording and then converting it to a standard file format after the recording is done.  That strikes me as a really good idea as it gives the benefits of the JTV format during recording, but leaves the final result in a more portable / standard format.
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astromo

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Re: Proposed New Television Setup
« Reply #52 on: November 18, 2014, 03:46:59 pm »

If you're only going to keep the JTV format, I would be opposed to doing this as the files aren't in a standard format that can be easily used in other apps.  If for some reason I decide to move away from MC or if there's an issue that prevents me from watching a recording, it's nice to know that I can easily take any existing TV recordings with me / watch them in other software while I wait for the problem to get resolved.

Edit: After reading a bit further, I see you're suggesting the possibility of using JTV format while recording and then converting it to a standard file format after the recording is done.  That strikes me as a really good idea as it gives the benefits of the JTV format during recording, but leaves the final result in a more portable / standard format.

There are moves afoot with at least one piece of external software to work directly with .jtv files:
[JTV]Would you like VideoReDo to open JRiver JTV files directly?

Also MC has the option of working with .ts files that does a convert from .jtv after a record job is finished.

In the thread above there's a cross link to another thread where the VRD developer asks for detailed specs regarding the .jtv format and Yaobing offers up a response. I'm yet to see something further from VRD on this one yet.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Proposed New Television Setup
« Reply #53 on: November 19, 2014, 06:14:23 am »

Also MC has the option of working with .ts files that does a convert from .jtv after a record job is finished.

Minor correction Astromo. When TS files are selected for TV recordings, JTV and TS files are written in parallel. There is no conversion done at the end of the recording. The JTV files, which are the Time Shift files, are simply deleted, while the TS files are retained.

I would find the references for that, but I am on my iPhone at the moment. Glynor quoted Yaobing's description of JTV functionality somewhere around here though.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

ldoodle

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Re: Proposed New Television Setup
« Reply #54 on: November 24, 2014, 02:36:21 pm »

windows media centre

In other words, make it just like Windows Media Center, excluding its pitfalls.  That would be perfect for me.

How difficult would it be to be able to use an external STB for the 'source', like XBox One does?  So just pass through the video/audio from the STB, but control and recordings are done in MC.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Proposed New Television Setup
« Reply #55 on: November 24, 2014, 05:05:18 pm »

How difficult would it be to be able to use an external STB for the 'source', like XBox One does?  So just pass through the video/audio from the STB, but control and recordings are done in MC.

I don't have a STB or any need for one, but as far as I know MC already does this. You do need to use an IR blaster, controlled by MC, to control the STB of course.

Do a little searching and you'll find out how.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

greynolds

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Re: Proposed New Television Setup
« Reply #56 on: November 24, 2014, 05:06:48 pm »

In other words, make it just like Windows Media Center, excluding its pitfalls.  That would be perfect for me.
Yes, something along the lines of that would be great.  WMC has a few bugs, but is a great solution for watching/recording TV.

How difficult would it be to be able to use an external STB for the 'source', like XBox One does?  So just pass through the video/audio from the STB, but control and recordings are done in MC.
If the STB is a cable company box, why not just get a Ceton or Silicondust CableCard tuner and rent a CableCard from the cable company?
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ldoodle

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Re: Proposed New Television Setup
« Reply #57 on: November 25, 2014, 08:21:13 am »

If the STB is a cable company box, why not just get a Ceton or Silicondust CableCard tuner and rent a CableCard from the cable company?

I'm in the UK, so nothing of the sort is available!

WMC has a few bugs, but is a great solution for watching/recording TV.

And missing features (since I last used it - don't know if it's changed).

I think for TV to 'work' properly, it needs to mimic an STB as closely as possible (I do realize MC can do some of these already):

during scan, only add channels your area can receive, without having to create filtered lists
EPG, including live TV overlay
favorite channels
pause/record/rewind/fast forward, with icons showing the current 'state'
archiving/auto-moving of recordings*
planner, showing recordings for playback and upcoming recordings

*I have a 256GB SSD so would want recordings to be primarily stored here.  If I used Live TV in MC I would like the ability to move older shows (whether watched or unwatched) somewhere else automatically, say a NAS.  You should also have the ability to manually archive too, on the same list you would find the 'Delete' option.  Another option should be 'auto-move once recorded', so you're recording directly to a local disk rather than over the LAN, which could introduce problems (switch or cable failure for example).  Playback of the show would then be over the LAN obviously, but it would instantly be available on any MC machine, even without MC server/client setup.
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ldoodle

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Re: Proposed New Television Setup
« Reply #58 on: November 25, 2014, 08:23:36 am »

I don't have a STB or any need for one, but as far as I know MC already does this. You do need to use an IR blaster, controlled by MC, to control the STB of course.

Do a little searching and you'll find out how.

Am I right or wrong in saying that the XBox One doesn't require the IR blaster?  Doesn't all control go through the HDMI ports?
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greynolds

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Re: Proposed New Television Setup
« Reply #59 on: November 25, 2014, 09:11:31 am »

Am I right or wrong in saying that the XBox One doesn't require the IR blaster?  Doesn't all control go through the HDMI ports?
It looks like it uses IR control via the Kinect sensor:

http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/live-tv/troubleshoot-oneguide

Relying on control through the HDMI connection would be a recipe for disaster as HDMI control is very inconsistent from device to device and cable boxes aren't likely to be one of the device types to actually get it right.
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greynolds

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Re: Proposed New Television Setup
« Reply #60 on: November 25, 2014, 09:23:32 am »

I think for TV to 'work' properly, it needs to mimic an STB as closely as possible (I do realize MC can do some of these already):
There's quite a bit more that's missing and a lot of it revolves around capabilities to setup scheduled recordings using searches / wishlists / series recordings.  One specific example I've been using is the ability to record hockey games for my home team, something that can be easily done in Windows Media Center, but is currently not possible in JRiver without getting a LOT of extra recordings that I don't want.

For this example, in WMC, you setup a keyword search for ie: "NHL Hockey Boston Bruins At", choose a category (Sports -> Hockey), tell it to record new shows, give preference to HD channels, and record 90 minutes extra (for games that go into overtime).  This keyword search gets all the Boston Bruins games (both home and away) and doesn't get much that I don't want, just an occasional replay on the NHL Network for recent games.

The closest search I can setup in MC either misses a lot of the games or records all sorts of related stuff (classic games or specials that happen to have "Boston Bruins" in the name, for example).  It so far off that it really isn't usable, unfortunately.  I've had similar issues setting up recordings for some other shows, but this is probably the best example.

If JRiver can get around to addressing this, I could probably switch from WMC for TV duties.

IMO, this is actually more important than redoing the initial setup.  While I agree that the current setup process might be difficult to use and may discourage some users from using the feature, it does work.  But the recording functionality limitations don't have any sort of workaround that I'm aware of (setting up each recording manually isn't an option), which makes the TV feature unusable to people who need the type of series recording functionality that I'm describing.
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ldoodle

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Re: Proposed New Television Setup
« Reply #61 on: November 26, 2014, 08:58:43 am »

There's quite a bit more that's missing and a lot of it revolves around capabilities to setup scheduled recordings

Yeah, scheduling, series' link etc. are all mega important too.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Proposed New Television Setup
« Reply #62 on: November 26, 2014, 07:14:39 pm »

There's quite a bit more that's missing and a lot of it revolves around capabilities to setup scheduled recordings using searches / wishlists / series recordings.  One specific example I've been using is the ability to record hockey games for my home team, something that can be easily done in Windows Media Center, but is currently not possible in JRiver without getting a LOT of extra recordings that I don't want.

The reason that WMC does this so well in America, and not everywhere else by the way, is that WMC has access to a very good Electronic Program Guide (EPG), with very good, consistent data. Without that quality of data, WMC fails in exactly the way you describe.

Here in Australia I am sourcing my EPG OTA, from the broadcasters. It is not very good data, and is completely inconsistent.

For example, I record MotoGP races. All season the program title has started with the term "MotoGP 2014", until the race came to Australia, then it was something like "Phillip Island Race" or similar. No year mentioned. I don't think it even said MotoGP in the title, which is what MC, and WMC use to select a program to record. To add insult to this poor performance from the broadcasters, rebroadcasts of the race typically had completely different titles, so often they got recorded as well. MC couldn't identify them as repeats/reruns.

In your example every game you want to record would have to have the term "NHL Hockey Boston Bruins At" in the title. The probability of that happening in Australia is about zero. But also, each game would have to be tagged with a category of "Sport" and a sub-category of "Hockey." The only sport that gets a category in my EPG is one fishing program. It gets "Sport" and "Fishing." That's it, and we have a lot of sport on our FTA TV.

Recently a few of the broadcasters started putting both the Title and Subtitle in the Title field, plus the Subtitle in the Subtitle field. So each new recording became a new series according to MC, as it had a series name of "Title: Subtitle." That is not MC's fault. It is poor EPG data. I have had to spend far too much time cleaning up the mess this EPG data creates. I could fix this, but I would need complex equations in the recording tagging section on each recording rule to make it happen, and I haven't had time for that.

So if you have that data in your EPG, you are one of the blessed. A lot of people don't get that data.

I can buy an EPG in Australia with better data, for about $100 per year. It is a curated EPG, with the data cleaned up and extra information added. The EPG provider also provides a range of value added services, but they only work on hardware that has been modified to use the services, and on WMC, although only on WMC because they wrote an application that loads WMC specifically. All the work is done outside WMC, and programs to watch are loaded into WMC.

Would you pay $100 a year to ensure that your hockey games get recorded correctly? Well, I used to, when I used WMC and before that a PVR, because they could use at least some of the extra data.

Yeah, scheduling, series' link etc. are all mega important too.

Series Link functionality is a different thing all together, and almost always depends on the EPG having a unique Program and/or Series ID. Of course the software or device doing the recording needs to understand and be able to use the Program ID, and at the moment MC can't do that. Even in America some hardware manufacturers provide custom EPG to their users with the Program ID added, to enable Series Link functionality to work. JRiver isn't in the game of providing EPG data, and shouldn't be.

The $100 EPG I mentioned above did include a Program ID, but it was a proprietary numbering scheme added by the EPG provider, as there wasn't a suitable alternative which included Australian content.

However I agree that JRiver should do a whole lot better in their identification of programs in the EPG, and use of the data that is available. MC should be able to look up programs on thetvdb.com (and maybe other sites) by series name and episode title for example, and having that information, add tags such as Season number, Episode Number, Category, Sub-category, Program ID, Genre, Rating, etc., probably even allow the user to define which tags get updated and which don't, maybe even how they get updated. (For example Australian Rating values shouldn't be overwritten by American values.) Then it should be able to use that data for selecting programs to record. But all of that depends on the data being available somewhere, and it isn't always available for new programs, or "once off" programs like sport events.

IMO, this is actually more important than redoing the initial setup.
While this is true for me as well, I understand that the only way we are going to get more features and better support for such functionality is if JRiver has more, lots more, MC customers. If 80% of the people who try to set up MC give up thinking it is just too hard, then this isn't going to happen. So making the setup much easier is the first step to getting more users, and hence better functionality.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

greynolds

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Re: Proposed New Television Setup
« Reply #63 on: November 26, 2014, 08:20:32 pm »

The reason that WMC does this so well in America, and not everywhere else by the way, is that WMC has access to a very good Electronic Program Guide (EPG), with very good, consistent data. Without that quality of data, WMC fails in exactly the way you describe.
It should go without saying that any keyword/series recording functionality is going to be limited by how good the guide data is.  But here in the US, good guide data isn't exactly a rarity and any product that includes guide data really has no excuse not to have pretty good data to work with.

I'm not sure where MC gets it's program data from in the US, but there are plenty of good sources for program data here.  Unless MC makes better use of the data that IS available, the quality of the data is somewhat moot.

In your example every game you want to record would have to have the term "NHL Hockey Boston Bruins At" in the title. The probability of that happening in Australia is about zero. But also, each game would have to be tagged with a category of "Sport" and a sub-category of "Hockey." The only sport that gets a category in my EPG is one fishing program. It gets "Sport" and "Fishing." That's it, and we have a lot of sport on our FTA TV.
All the games have either "NHL Hockey Boston Bruins At {OpponentTeamName}" or "NHL Hockey {OpponentTeamName} At Boston Bruins" in the titles, the guide data is actually pretty good that way (both in WMC and in MC from what I've seen).  In another thread, JimH mentioned that a keyword search had recently been added for setting up recordings, but I'm using the latest release and haven't been able to find that feature and don't see it listed in the release notes.  So MC really doesn't have any chance of doing a good job replacing this type of functionality that WMC does well, regardless of how good the guide data is.

Would you pay $100 a year to ensure that your hockey games get recorded correctly?
Yes, I would pay $100 a year if that's what it would take to get the combination of quality guide data and better use of it in MC.  But this isn't just about hockey games, that was just one specific example that I though would get the point across as it's a bit more complex in some ways than a typical series recording.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Proposed New Television Setup
« Reply #64 on: November 26, 2014, 09:10:17 pm »

Yeah, I saw the thread where Jim mentioned Keyword searching, and went looking as you did. Nothing. I don't know what he was referring to. Maybe something that is upcoming?

I think MC gets its EPG data in the USA from the same source as WMC. From what I have read, there aren't that many original sources that can be used on PVRs, HTPC and so on. They all seem to start with the one source.

Also I completely agree that MC needs to do better with the data it gets in the EPG, and needs far, far better program selection rules/options for series subscriptions. The fact you can't say "record this program from one or more channels, but only once, and give preference to a HD channel" shows the limitations. I had that capability in the software I used with my old Topfield PVR, and that functionality was provided as soon as HD channels became available.

Just quietly, given how poor the OTA EPG is here, I would pay $100 per year again if the added value functionality that service provided was integrated into MC. I've asked both parties about that, but neither showed interest.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

greynolds

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Re: Proposed New Television Setup
« Reply #65 on: November 26, 2014, 09:20:34 pm »

Just quietly, given how poor the OTA EPG is here, I would pay $100 per year again if the added value functionality that service provided was integrated into MC. I've asked both parties about that, but neither showed interest.
The problem with that is that there are very few users who are willing to pay anything for EPG data.

When I was working on the accessDTV software, we had to come up with a new source for EPG data basically because accessDTV went belly-up due to a lawsuit (they were suing a big company over intellectual property and put themselves out of business in the process - they probably would have been much better off financially walking away from it, even if they were right).  Some of the options for good EPG data would have cost people something like $20 a year and that was $20 more than many of them were willing to spend.  We ended up going with Schedules Direct, which was difficult to deal with because accessDTV was a commercial product despite the software being a volunteer effort at that point.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Proposed New Television Setup
« Reply #66 on: November 26, 2014, 10:18:27 pm »

The problem with that is that there are very few users who are willing to pay anything for EPG data.

Which is why IceTV here in Australia, the provider I mentioned above, is still struggling to get the critical mass of customers they need to be really successful. I have to be grateful to them though, as they fought and won the IP challenge broadcasters started against them, through three levels of our legal system, and basically forced the broadcasters to start providing at least some barely usable EPG data OTA.

Schedules Direct used to use Zap2it data, owned by Tribune Media Services, which is the single original source of data I was talking about earlier. It seems Schedules Direct have now moved from Zap2it and are providing their own feed. I wonder where they are getting that data? Regardless, the EPG environment is changing in the USA as well.

Someone must have done some fancy talking if Schedules Direct allowed a commercial organisation to use their data. I know they were very sensitive about that early on, because it would threaten access to their source of data.

I see you have quite a history with accessDTV.  ;)  Why don't you write a Whitepaper for JRiver on how scheduled recordings using searches / wishlists / series recordings etc. should be done. We may all benefit from the result.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

greynolds

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Re: Proposed New Television Setup
« Reply #67 on: November 26, 2014, 11:25:37 pm »

Someone must have done some fancy talking if Schedules Direct allowed a commercial organisation to use their data. I know they were very sensitive about that early on, because it would threaten access to their source of data.
There was definitely a lot of back and forth to convince them to allow us to use their data.  Due to NDA issues for some parts of the code (mostly the hardware driver code for the tuner), the owner of accessDTV couldn't make their source code open source, even though development of the DVR software had been taken over by a small group of volunteers.  What we were able to work out was to write a guide data plugin interface for accessDTV and then a separate program that would download and process the EPG data from Schedules Direct.  The Schedules Direct group was actually pretty reasonable about it and understood the situation, they just had to cover themselves because of the agreements they had with the actual owner of the EPG data.  AFAIK, there are still some people using the accessDTV hardware and software as I get monthly reports from SD indicating how many users are active.

I see you have quite a history with accessDTV.  ;)  Why don't you write a Whitepaper for JRiver on how scheduled recordings using searches / wishlists / series recordings etc. should be done. We may all benefit from the result.
The accessDTV thing was practically a lifetime ago at this point - I stopped working on that around 10 years ago.  It was quite a bit of fun, but I'm also glad that it's over because after writing software all day at my day job, it became quite a burden to spend many of my evenings working on the accessDTV software right up till it was time to go to bed.

As I, and several others, have stated, the best thing the JRiver guys can do is to spend some real quality time with WMC to see how it handles all the recording functionality as WMC does quite a few things very well and very few things poorly.  And do the same with some of the other options that are out there to see what they do well.

What follows certainly isn't a whitepaper and I suspect that others have already suggested most or perhaps all of this, but here are some thoughts that I hope are helpful:

Make use of the fields in the guide data to handle keyword searches, use season / episode numbers where appropriate, use categories where appropriate, handle the "new show" flag where appropriate, etc.   Update the UI to give the user access to make use of these features.  Give the user the ability to specify a preference for HD channels.  I'd actually extend WMC channel selection options - they let you choose SD preferred, HD preferred, or 1 specific channel.  I'd extend that to allow choosing multiple channels as some shows (such as the Hockey example) actually are on different channels during the year (most of the games are on NESN which is a sports channel for the area, but some are on NBCSN, or the local FOX or NBC affiliate - typically game of the week type games).  That would allow me to exclude the NHL Network where no games (I care about anyway) are broadcast live, just re-runs.

Though the user should continue to have the ability to tell MC to record shows around a certain time and to only record 1 episode per day, using the guide data more effectively should make it such that those options don't need to be used to get the results you're looking for.  I ran into a few cases in the last 6 months where a show had 2 new episodes back-to-back (I believe Falling Skies did this and at least 1 other show too), and that was a bit of an issue to get working well in MC because it came down to getting both episodes but also getting some other repeat episodes I didn't want or having to go in and manually schedule the 2nd episode.

In WMC in addition to setting up a series recording where you select a show (such as CSI) in search results or the guide and tell it to record all episodes (and specify new only, repeats only, or new and repeat), the user can setup wishlist recordings for the following options: Actor Name, Director Name, Movie Title, Program Title, Generic Keyword.  Each of these can also have a category specified to narrow the scope of the results.  For actors and directors, WMC actually has a database of actors and directors that will auto suggest as you start typing.  While that would be ideal, I'd consider it optional, but the user would need to understand that only exact matches to names will happen.  Generic Keyword matches all words, but the order doesn't matter (this is what I used for my Hockey example).  IMO, Generic Keyword is a must have, while the others would be really nice, but definitely lower priorities.  These wishlist recordings don't need any matches in the current guide data - they're just ongoing searches that match shows as they show up in the guide data.

The code to handle all of this really isn't all that complex whether it be a database query to pick programs to record out of a database or C/C# code to find matches in the program guide data.  If the guide data isn't available, the user would have to adjust their recording rules accordingly to make the best use they can of the data they have available.  For example, if the guide data doesn't have an actor's name field (which should be an array as most programs have more than 1 actor), the user just won't get any matches for an Actor Name recording rule.  But generic keyword searches should work for just about anyone and ideally the UI would allow the user to select which fields in the guide data should be used for that search.

WMC does everything, including initial setup, in the 10 foot UI and I'd love to see MC do that too as that's really how I tend to use MC.  Though I think it's perfectly acceptable to drop out of the 10 foot UI for the initial setup and things like modifying channel lists as those aren't daily tasks.  But anything to do with setting up recordings, seeing the list of upcoming recordings, browsing the guide, etc. really needs to be doable in Theater View.

Oh, and anything WMC does that isn't related to TV probably ought to be ignored as I'm pretty sure MC already does everything else far better than WMC. :)
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ldoodle

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Re: Proposed New Television Setup
« Reply #68 on: November 27, 2014, 02:56:00 am »

While this is true for me as well, I understand that the only way we are going to get more features and better support for such functionality is if JRiver has more, lots more, MC customers. If 80% of the people who try to set up MC give up thinking it is just too hard, then this isn't going to happen. So making the setup much easier is the first step to getting more users, and hence better functionality.

I agree here.  I wonder how many MC users are actually using the Live TV functionality.

I also wonder if JRiver would do better adding something like the XBox One passthrough features, but on a much bigger/better scale, rather than re-inventing the wheel.  I understand it's already possible, but in what form?

I know i'd prefer that to having built-in TV functionality because a) I don't like having all my eggs in one basket and b) my STB package is encrypted and can't currently be natively added to a PC.
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imugli

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Re: Proposed New Television Setup
« Reply #69 on: January 01, 2015, 04:39:32 am »

FWIW I use IceTV and find it well worth the money. The data is great. They also have an API that I'd love to see integrated in MC. The problem with OTA data in Oz is that the networks own it themselves, which is what the court case was about. The advantage of using the PTA data would be that Oz networks have to update the data regularly (Pretty much live now with Free view Plus) so if a program runs overtime the guide and recording gets updated. That's something xmltv data just can't do.

RoderickGI

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Re: Proposed New Television Setup
« Reply #70 on: January 01, 2015, 04:48:06 pm »

FWIW I use IceTV and find it well worth the money. The data is great. They also have an API that I'd love to see integrated in MC.

Yes, the data is very good. I'm still having trouble with the OTA EPG data, so I may yet go back to IceTV, but not yet.

I asked about the API and getting together with J River a long time ago. While the CEO, Heinz, was excited about my input, nothing ever came of it, as they put all their effort into the new IceTV PVR.
http://forum.icetv.com.au/iceforum/windows-7-media-center/29/so-what-is-the-future-of-icetv-interactive-time-to-share/3862/msg18882#msg18882

That new PVR, by the way, still has not been delivered . . . eighteen months later!
http://forum.icetv.com.au/iceforum/general-discussions/1/new-icetv-branded-pvr/3886/135
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner
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