Topic: Feedback on Video Support in MC for Mac (Read 38351 times)

glynor · « **Reply #50 on:** April 17, 2015, 07:13:46 am »

Quote from: Hendrik on March 22, 2015, 07:38:12 am

We require OpenGL 3.2 support, which these old mac books do not support, sorry.

Hendrik, do you happen to know when this transition happened on the hardware?
I added this page to the Wiki, but that's scary to read (and I'm not entirely sure where the cutoff is on that chart either).

Quote from: 6233638 on March 22, 2015, 08:33:47 am

Is there any way to have the OS X version of MC open those videos with an external application? (QuickTime/VLC)

Unfortunately, no. I'd love it if they could give us that, and then just turn on all possible Media Types (just opening photos and documents in the associated system application). But Send To > External and the File Types > Play in External isn't available on the OSX version currently.

Hendrik · « **Reply #51 on:** April 17, 2015, 07:55:44 am »

Unfortunately I do not have clear information which hardware has GL 3.2 support. It requires OSX 10.7 at very least, but not sure about hardware.

glynor · « **Reply #52 on:** April 17, 2015, 05:01:59 pm »

Quote from: Hendrik on April 17, 2015, 07:55:44 am

Unfortunately I do not have clear information which hardware has GL 3.2 support. It requires OSX 10.7 at very least, but not sure about hardware.

Ok. If I get bored, I might try to figure it out.

Do you know which of those "color bands" you can use? Is the Radeon HD 2400 okay, for example? It is listed as OpenGL 3.2 supporting, but I don't know if you need a particular amount of VRAM or something.

John Smith · « **Reply #53 on:** April 21, 2015, 08:12:54 am »

JRiver Media Center for Mac 20.0.94 installed. Subtitles still not supported...

Guys, be honest, let's call it JRiver Audio Center for Mac...

glynor · « **Reply #54 on:** April 21, 2015, 05:13:21 pm »

I understand you want subtitles, and I do think that is planned, but... I don't know. This seems a bit hyperbolic:

Quote from: John Smith on April 21, 2015, 08:12:54 am

Guys, be honest, let's call it JRiver Audio Center for Mac...

I use MC on Mac for video all the time. I watched 2-3 hours of shows with it last night (including the latest Game of Thrones episode) with absolutely no problems.

Subtitles would be nice, occasionally, for me. I understand it is essential if you (a) have hearing loss, or (b) watch a lot of media with non-native languages. But, both of those are something of edge cases. Certainly important ones, but still edge cases.

In any case, the guy writing the Mac video engine is German, so I think he is well aware of the subtitles issues.

John Smith · « **Reply #55 on:** April 22, 2015, 01:59:36 pm »

Quote from: glynor on April 21, 2015, 05:13:21 pm

I understand you want subtitles, and I do think that is planned, but... I don't know. This seems a bit hyperbolic:

I use MC on Mac for video all the time. I watched 2-3 hours of shows with it last night (including the latest Game of Thrones episode) with absolutely no problems.

Subtitles would be nice, occasionally, for me. I understand it is essential if you (a) have hearing loss, or (b) watch a lot of media with non-native languages. But, both of those are something of edge cases. Certainly important ones, but still edge cases.

In any case, the guy writing the Mac video engine is German, so I think he is well aware of the subtitles issues.

Subtitles just must be. I like French comedies, I like anime, I like great Asian movies. I purchased JRiver to enjoy all of them... Now you can understand my attitude...

And please do not discriminate deafs. It's unacceptable.

They need that subtitles support badly.

==========

To clarify the point - I have really perfect hearing and that's why I purchased JRiver.

xtraktz · « **Reply #56 on:** April 24, 2015, 06:01:06 pm »

Quote from: John Smith on April 22, 2015, 01:59:36 pm

Subtitles just must be. I like French comedies, I like anime, I like great Asian movies. I purchased JRiver to enjoy all of them... Now you can understand my attitude...

And please do not discriminate deafs. It's unacceptable. They need that subtitles support badly.

==========
To clarify the point - I have really perfect hearing and that's why I purchased JRiver.

this guy is telling the truth!

and please fix "gray dock" bug in fullscreen mode!

santar · « **Reply #57 on:** April 25, 2015, 05:00:51 am »

Agreed. JRiver will never be my default media player without subtitle support. Not an edge case!

John Smith · « **Reply #58 on:** May 29, 2015, 11:46:40 am »

I have installed the newest MC 20.0.112. Thanks for DTS HD native support.

However, subtitles are still not supported.

John Smith · « **Reply #59 on:** May 29, 2015, 01:11:15 pm »

I purchased MC license to have ability to enjoy my music and films collection. The key reason to buy exactly JRiver MC was ability to watch my movies with perfect sound.
I am a Mac user, but I even can't presume that I will be discriminated for that. I mean the lack of subtitles support in JRiver MC for Mac. I was surprised, but indicated this defect on this forum (in "Feedback on Video Support in MC for Mac" topic). I did it several months ago and reminded several times, nothing is changed till now...

Please be aware the subtitle support is just a little feature, but without it you can't watch any foreign film, if you do not speak Dutch, Italian, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, you name it.

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #60 on:** May 29, 2015, 01:52:46 pm »

While it might seem like subtitles are a little feature, implementing them on Mac and Linux isn't a simple walk in the park. It just takes time.

John Smith · « **Reply #61 on:** May 29, 2015, 02:38:33 pm »

Quote from: Awesome Donkey on May 29, 2015, 01:52:46 pm

While it might seem like subtitles are a little feature, implementing them on Mac and Linux isn't a simple walk in the park. It just takes time.

Awesome Donkey,

Frankly speaking, I was a software developer and know this subject pretty well.

It's not about sophisticated technical difficulties (VLC has it, DVDFab has it as well), it's about prioritizing and correct project management and time planning.

Lack of subtitles support looks like a minor defect (probably, to your software developer only), but it is jeopardizing all video playback functionality.

JimH · « **Reply #62 on:** May 29, 2015, 02:41:05 pm »

Your priorities are not always ours. Sorry.

Video was new just a few months ago and it's not completed.

If you have to have subtitles, then you will need to use another player until MC has them.

John Smith · « **Reply #63 on:** May 29, 2015, 02:52:00 pm »

Quote from: JimH on May 29, 2015, 02:41:05 pm

Your priorities are not always ours. Sorry.
Video was new just a few months ago and it's not completed.
If you have to have subtitles, then you will need to use another player until MC has them.

JimH,

I glad to hear that you have some prioritizing. Just do not forget about your loyal customers.

I am enforced to use free VLC cause subtitles and easily can hear it's sounds much worse than my purchased MC. Now you can understand my attitude...

dziemian · « **Reply #64 on:** June 17, 2015, 05:51:03 am »

I am also asking for a subtitle support. I bought a JRiver for both video and audio. There are many excellent software players for audio but only few for both video and audio. I have a Master Licence and I am happy with windows version. But lack of subtitle support in Mac version is a pain in...... I have to use VLC instead.

I know it will be added to MC someday but please put it higher in your priority list.

Tomek

6233638 · « **Reply #65 on:** June 18, 2015, 01:23:54 am »

Full-screen playback doesn't seem to hide the mouse cursor

John Smith · « **Reply #66 on:** June 19, 2015, 12:43:18 pm »

Quote from: 6233638 on June 18, 2015, 01:23:54 am

Full-screen playback doesn't seem to hide the mouse cursor

Yes, it's unpleasant bug.

glynor · « **Reply #67 on:** June 19, 2015, 10:58:25 pm »

Yeah. The mouse cursor is annoying. You can move it almost all the way off the screen usually, but it is annoying.

azteca x · « **Reply #68 on:** July 02, 2015, 09:54:35 am »

Quote from: glynor on June 19, 2015, 10:58:25 pm

Yeah. The mouse cursor is annoying. You can move it almost all the way off the screen usually, but it is annoying.

Yeah, this is as simple and prominent as you can get. I hope to see it fixed soon.

Matt · « **Reply #69 on:** July 02, 2015, 10:24:06 am »

Quote from: azteca x on July 02, 2015, 09:54:35 am

Yeah, this is as simple and prominent as you can get. I hope to see it fixed soon.

Hopefully the mouse cursor will hide and show properly in the next build.

glynor · « **Reply #70 on:** July 02, 2015, 03:59:28 pm »

Quote from: Matt on July 02, 2015, 10:24:06 am

Hopefully the mouse cursor will hide and show properly in the next build.

Ooooh. Fancy!

John Smith · « **Reply #71 on:** July 12, 2015, 02:39:46 pm »

Quote from: Matt on July 02, 2015, 10:24:06 am

Hopefully the mouse cursor will hide and show properly in the next build.

It will be the greatest improvement of this build.

John Smith · « **Reply #72 on:** July 12, 2015, 02:44:53 pm »

I plan to upgrade my Master License to MC21 in a few days.

Definitely hope that subtitles support will be implemented in this version.

I hope as well that "mysterious gray rectangle" bug will be fixed as well.

Hendrik · « **Reply #73 on:** July 12, 2015, 05:33:44 pm »

Video Support on Mac and Linux will definitely be worked on for MC21, including subtitles, hardware acceleration and language based stream selection.
It was originally planned for MC20 already, but unfortunately priorities shifted and other tasks took precedence.

Although I'm still not hearing all that much about Video on Mac/Linux in general. Do many people actually use it at all? I doubt missing subtitles are the only problem in it, but its not like there is a lot of feedback.
Admittedly I personally don't use it to watch videos either, since its all Windows for me.

Regarding the gray player controls bug, last I heard Matt and/or John wanted to look into that, since they have the experience with Mac window drawing. I should poke them to see if its still on their list somewhere.

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #74 on:** July 12, 2015, 05:39:32 pm »

Quote from: Hendrik on July 12, 2015, 05:33:44 pm

Do many people actually use it at all?

My guess is from reading some of the posts in both sections is that some are waiting for additional features, like subtitles.

Hendrik · « **Reply #75 on:** July 12, 2015, 05:45:37 pm »

Quote from: Awesome Donkey on July 12, 2015, 05:39:32 pm

My guess is from reading some of the posts in both sections is that some are waiting for additional features, like subtitles.

The interesting part about that is, if we don't see a lot of use for a feature, the priority of future development of it drops - and the number of people asking for subtitles is < 5 from what I recall. So, hey!

And I still find it weird that the entire userbase can't watch videos without subtitles. Surely its an important feature for some, but the majority, really? I just don't believe that.

But subtitles are coming now, so if that is actually a reason for noone using it, then maybe things will change - or maybe not.

John Smith · « **Reply #76 on:** July 12, 2015, 06:16:07 pm »

Quote from: Hendrik on July 12, 2015, 05:33:44 pm

Video Support on Mac and Linux will definitely be worked on for MC21, including subtitles, hardware acceleration and language based stream selection.
It was originally planned for MC20 already, but unfortunately priorities shifted and other tasks took precedence.

Although I'm still not hearing all that much about Video on Mac/Linux in general. Do many people actually use it at all? I doubt missing subtitles are the only problem in it, but its not like there is a lot of feedback.
Admittedly I personally don't use it to watch videos either, since its all Windows for me.

Regarding the gray player controls bug, last I heard Matt and/or John wanted to look into that, since they have the experience with Mac window drawing. I should poke them to see if its still on their list somewhere.

Hendrik, let me respond.

First of all, I glad to hear that MC21 for Mac will be fully functional.

Second, if you propose MC on Mac/Linux and want some money for that, please sell a self-sufficient product, like on Windows. Otherwise it's looks like your sell some car without headlamps... Of course, you can drive without headlamps, but just imagine that your customers will say, if you will propose them such product.

I have to say that I can play music without MC. I can use several other quality music players, especially for Windows. But, I can't name any other video player with quality sound playback. Just treat it as some competitive advantage. So please keep in mind, that MC video functionality is important.

Hendrik · « **Reply #77 on:** July 12, 2015, 06:27:17 pm »

If your arguments were true, then more people would care about video - which they apparently don't, judging from the feedback on this forum. Or its just that perfect that we don't need to get any feedback on it.

At the end of the day, any feature we work on for MC has to be used by a relevant number of users, especially something big like video. If there just aren't that many users, then its not worth prioritizing that feature in the future. Its inescapable logic, even if those 3 users that do use it would disagree.

Even if there wasn't a financial aspect in play, I personally prefer working on things that make people happy, rather than things that barely anyone uses.

JimH · « **Reply #78 on:** July 12, 2015, 07:03:38 pm »

Quote from: John Smith on July 12, 2015, 06:16:07 pm

I have to say that I can play music without MC. I can use several other quality music players, especially for Windows. But, I can't name any other video player with quality sound playback. Just treat it as some competitive advantage. So please keep in mind, that MC video functionality is important.

We're committed to full support of video on Mac.

glynor · « **Reply #79 on:** July 12, 2015, 07:05:17 pm »

I use the video support on the Mac version of MC much, much more than I use it for plain audio.

I don't have a huge need for subtitles. The biggest things that were annoying me are (in order):

1. The disappearing top toolbar in Display View.
2. The non-hiding mouse pointer

Both of which are reasonably minor, but irritating.

JimH · « **Reply #80 on:** July 12, 2015, 07:05:53 pm »

Quote from: Hendrik on July 12, 2015, 06:27:17 pm

... then more people would care about video - which they apparently don't, judging from the feedback on this forum. Or its just that perfect that we don't need to get any feedback on it.

That was my first thought when you said we're not getting much feedback. No news is good news.

John Smith · « **Reply #81 on:** July 12, 2015, 07:09:07 pm »

Quote from: Hendrik on July 12, 2015, 06:27:17 pm

If your arguments would be true, then more people would care about video - which they apparently don't, judging from feedback on this forum. Or its just that perfect that we don't need to get any feedback on it. One of those!
At the end of the day, any feature we work on for MC has to be used by a relevant number of users, especially something big like video. If there just aren't that many users, then its not worth prioritizing that feature in the future. Its unescapable logic, even if those 3 users that do use it would care to disagree.

Even if there wasn't a financial aspect in play, I personally prefer working on things that make more people happy, rather than things that barely anyone uses - which is how Video on Mac and Linux feels to me right about now.
Luckily this topic is at least mildly interesting, or I would have no motivation left.

Hendrik,

Why have you and your team made high quality player for audiophiles? I presumed you and your team have some vision and some mission...

If you made video playback, please implement at least some basic features... Subtitles support is one of these very basic features.

John Smith · « **Reply #82 on:** July 12, 2015, 07:10:22 pm »

Quote from: JimH on July 12, 2015, 07:03:38 pm

We're committed to full support of video on Mac.

Thanks for that.

mwillems · « **Reply #83 on:** July 12, 2015, 07:15:25 pm »

Quote from: Hendrik on July 12, 2015, 05:33:44 pm

Although I'm still not hearing all that much about Video on Mac/Linux in general. Do many people actually use it at all? I doubt missing subtitles are the only problem in it, but its not like there is a lot of feedback.

Feel free to split this since it's more Linux oriented, but I think part of the story is that while video support is present on Mac and Linux certain key pieces of the puzzle are still missing (and not just subtitles)

I can't currently use the linux video playback regularly because it doesn't always work correctly with fullscreen mode/display mode on two monitors (with some hardware it works, but not with mine currently). The OSD also doesn't reliably show up. More info over here:http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=91652.msg682522#msg682522

The other issue is the lack of theater view in linux. I haven't converted any of my "family" PC's to linux because of the lack of a ten-foot HTPC interface. I would use linux video playback daily if there were a theater view equivalent on Linux because that's the only thing stopping me from moving my HTPC client boxes over. I'm sure mac users are in the same boat on that one.

The video support looks great and I'm looking forward to using it more. But I can't really use it right now in my main applications (HTPC and workstation), so I stick to the windows version for video.

John Smith · « **Reply #84 on:** July 12, 2015, 07:25:46 pm »

Quote from: glynor on July 12, 2015, 07:05:17 pm

I use the video support on the Mac version of MC much, much more than I use it for plain audio.

I don't have a huge need for subtitles. The biggest things that were annoying me are (in order):

1. The disappearing top toolbar in Display View.
2. The non-hiding mouse pointer

Both of which are reasonably minor, but irritating.

Glynor,

I agree with you - these bugs are unpleasant. However, there are not vital.

Let me explain.

1. The disappearing top toolbar in Display View is nonsense. There is nothing to discuss, it need to be fixed.
However, I can switch to different view, make some needed actions and switch to Display View again.

2. The non-hiding mouse pointer looks strange, but I can try to hide it somehow on the right edge of the screen.

Regarding the missing subtitles support - I can't display any subtitles whatever I do. Taste the difference.

Thanks for understanding.

Ekpen · « **Reply #85 on:** July 12, 2015, 09:19:15 pm »

Quote from: Awesome Donkey on July 12, 2015, 05:39:32 pm

My guess is from reading some of the posts in both sections is that some are waiting for additional features, like subtitles.

I am waiting for Blu ray , 3d and theater view. My son saw the theater view in Windows, he loves it.
at least blu ray and theater view, will be fine, sub titles may come later. I am even planning to get a Mac, but no point doing this when video support is minimal.

George Omoregie.

JimH · « **Reply #86 on:** July 12, 2015, 09:47:52 pm »

Video support is more than minimal.

John Smith · « **Reply #87 on:** July 13, 2015, 12:33:43 am »

Quote from: Ekpen on July 12, 2015, 09:19:15 pm

I am waiting for Blu ray , 3d and theater view. My son saw the theater view in Windows, he loves it.
at least blu ray and theater view, will be fine, sub titles may come later. I am even planning to get a Mac, but no point doing this when video support is minimal.

George Omoregie.

George,

Subtitles support is actually minimal, but Blu-Ray support, 3D and theater view are more than minimal - may come later...

Hendrik · « **Reply #88 on:** July 13, 2015, 02:12:22 am »

Even the Windows version doesn't do 3D, and its unlikely to change any time soon, and even if it does eventually, the Linux and Mac versions will likely take a long time to catch up on all features.
Windows is always going to be the most advanced platform for Video, on account of LAV Filters and madVR alone - which both have years of development behind them, and are not going to wait for MC to catch up first.

Theater View is also quite problematic on Mac and Linux. We do want to offer it at some point, but its just an extremely huge task, so we have to be sure the time is right to spent all these resources on it.

In short, if you care about the most advanced Video features, you will want to stick to Windows. If you just want to play normal video files, then Mac and Linux will also do their job just fine.

glynor · « **Reply #89 on:** July 13, 2015, 09:17:40 am »

Quote from: John Smith on July 12, 2015, 07:25:46 pm

Regarding the missing subtitles support - I can't display any subtitles whatever I do.

I understand. I was just explaining my own personal needs. And, explaining that I do use the video support on MC for Mac, quite regularly (not every single day, but regularly). I haven't been posting a lot about it because (aside from those few bugs) for my own needs, it works.

I agree that subtitles support is the largest gap in video support currently.

jimm2 · « **Reply #90 on:** July 13, 2015, 02:25:02 pm »

Quote from: Hendrik on July 12, 2015, 06:27:17 pm

If your arguments were true, then more people would care about video - which they apparently don't, judging from the feedback on this forum. Or its just that perfect that we don't need to get any feedback on it.

I think you may be interpreting this wrong. Given the current issues with video, it's barely usable. 1) always visible cursor 2) grey box at top 3) no subtitles, for starters. These have been brought up multiple times by multiple people but never seem to get any attention.

In general, the Mac product just doesn't appear to get much love from the JRiver staff. All you have to do is look at the number of releases for V20 since it launched compared to Windows.

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #91 on:** July 13, 2015, 02:32:28 pm »

Quote from: jimm2 on July 13, 2015, 02:25:02 pm

These have been brought up multiple times by multiple people but never seem to get any attention.

I don't find this to be true at all. They've acknowledged the cursor and grey box issues and they've posted updates regarding other upcoming features in this thread, including subtitles.

JimH · « **Reply #92 on:** July 13, 2015, 02:58:00 pm »

Quote from: jimm2 on July 13, 2015, 02:25:02 pm

In general, the Mac product just doesn't appear to get much love from the JRiver staff. All you have to do is look at the number of releases for V20 since it launched compared to Windows.

The Mac version benefits from nearly all the work we do on other versions. Most fixed bugs are relevant. Most new features, as well.

jimm2 · « **Reply #93 on:** July 13, 2015, 03:04:26 pm »

Quote from: Awesome Donkey on July 13, 2015, 02:32:28 pm

I don't find this to be true at all. They've acknowledged the cursor and grey box issues and they've posted updates regarding other upcoming features in this thread, including subtitles.

To each his own I guess but cursor and grey box are still existing problems that haven't been fixed and today is the first I've seen them commit on subtitles unless I missed something.

Hendrik's comments made it sound like they think video is perfect while this is clearly not the case.

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #94 on:** July 13, 2015, 03:22:47 pm »

I believe I saw mentioned that the cursor issue is already fixed and will be in the next build.

jimm2 · « **Reply #95 on:** July 13, 2015, 03:25:44 pm »

Quote from: JimH on July 13, 2015, 02:58:00 pm

The Mac version benefits from nearly all the work we do on other versions. Most fixed bugs are relevant. Most new features, as well.

Fair enough but how about all the documented Mac bugs that aren't in the Windows version? Lockups, saved views, etc, etc. Been using the Mac version for the last 2 revs but haven't seen much improvement during that time. Yes, you launched Video and ripping in V20 but video has the same bugs that existed since it was launched. Now I hear you're launching a new version. My vote would be to fix what you already have. Sure, I would love to see new enhancements but they have to work or they're not much use.

JimH · « **Reply #96 on:** July 13, 2015, 03:39:13 pm »

We do work on the problems that are reported. We can't always reproduce them.

glynor · « **Reply #97 on:** July 13, 2015, 04:00:54 pm »

Quote from: jimm2 on July 13, 2015, 03:25:44 pm

Fair enough but how about all the documented Mac bugs that aren't in the Windows version? Lockups, saved views, etc, etc. Been using the Mac version for the last 2 revs but haven't seen much improvement during that time.

I've seen all sorts of improvements and new features in MC21 for Mac. As was mentioned previously in this thread (and elsewhere), the change logs posted on the Windows version apply equally, by and large, to the Mac version. So there may have been things changed you didn't see, if you weren't following those change logs.

There have been, recently, a bunch of additions, including:
* Dr. Who Playlist sharing
* ~expand smartlist modifier
* Full support for DTS-HD audio formats
* A bunch of retina improvements

And, as Awesome Donkey mentioned, they have been working on some of the annoying video bugs, like the mouse cursor thing. I know for a fact that they've spent a ton of time and effort trying to work out the audio dropouts issues reported in that thread, even though it only impacts a handful of users. Problems don't always have easy solutions, unfortunately. But slow and steady wins the race.

John Smith · « **Reply #98 on:** July 13, 2015, 11:53:22 pm »

Quote from: glynor on July 13, 2015, 04:00:54 pm

I've seen all sorts of improvements and new features in MC21 for Mac.

Cause I just upgraded my MC20 Master License to MC21, I have the right to see it soon.

By the way, do not forget some very unpleasant issue in MC20 video playback - I mean massive saw tooth edge distortion while 1080i is playing... Just painful to see it...
I can share some screen shots to proof it. Free VLC for Mac can display the same fragments correctly...
=========

Just to be precise - I have MacBook Pro Retina in top configuration. So my HW is OK...

John Smith · « **Reply #99 on:** July 14, 2015, 12:13:57 am »

Quote from: glynor on July 13, 2015, 04:00:54 pm

I've seen all sorts of improvements and new features in MC21 for Mac. As was mentioned previously in this thread (and elsewhere), the change logs posted on the Windows version apply equally, by and large, to the Mac version. So there may have been things changed you didn't see, if you weren't following those change logs.

There have been, recently, a bunch of additions, including:
* Dr. Who Playlist sharing
* ~expand smartlist modifier
* Full support for DTS-HD audio formats
* A bunch of retina improvements

glynor,

I have to admit - full support for DTS-HD audio formats is really important. Thanks for that.

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Feedback on Video Support in MC for Mac (Read 38351 times)