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[captmark]

I'm new to this so thanks in advance for any support. I'm starting to run the latest JRiver on a 10.7 MacBook Pro with a 5TB external drive with a Thunderbolt to HDMI cable plugged into my Onkyo PRS-C5509 preamp based 5.1 home theater set up (Paradigm Signatures/Sony 65", etc..) .

I have @ 25,000 hi-res stereo files- a combination of hundreds of 24/96 WAV recorded vinyl into Pro Tools, 24/96 & 192 Flacs and several hundred SACD-iso files (2ch and 5.1). I used to burn SACD-r of and play in my Oppo BDP-93. Keyword "used". Thank you auto firmware update!

My "issue": I still want to use the preamp's DSP to process the 2-channel files for effect when randoming all my audio library. It is much better sounding and more versatile than having the JRiver force 5.1 out and checking the create surround effect box in the settings and having to re tune the sub. But the Mac HDMI output needs to be on 24/8ch to make 5.1 files work (downsampled to 176.4) and with that the Onkyo reads "multi-channel" no matter what type of file is playing or whether the DSP Studio is set to "same channels as source" or "5.1". Switching through the Onkyo DSP presets none provide any type of surround output. Switching the Mac HDMI output to 2-ch 24 bit restores the Onkyo's DSP on stereo files but eliminates the 5.1/SACD iso playback (and maybe 192 flac/wav's as well-I haven't checked).

I tried a Toslink to mini adapter but couldn't get the higher rates either. I'm assuming I'm not the first person who wants 5.1 to be 5.1 and 2-channel to be 5.1 DSP processed without any hassles. Is this a Mac issue and it works on Windows (which I'm more used to but had the Mac gear available)? Will another piece of gear (DAC?) solve my problem?  Thanks in advance for any help.  M

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Is there anyone who reviews these forums that actually works for JRiver? I chalk up the lack of response to my question by anyone not employed by them as somehow too stupid to dignify with a response...and it very well could be as if I knew that answer I probably wouldn't have to ask it in the first place. Maybe there's another place on the forum where this issue was addressed-I couldn't find one before I asked the question.

But one (and so far it seems only one) would think that a respectful legitimate question asked by a paid customer who wants to embrace the product and not diss it would be acknowledged by a company moderator, especially in lieu of having a real owners manual or other information portal other than a confusing and poorly organized wiki link.

If this were Avid and I was asking a ProTools question I would expect such poor response and service. But it's not, is it? I assumed the non-employees here who post regularly act as a quasi-support staff of like-minded audiophiles and cheerleaders of the product and would welcome turning other people onto their enjoyment through their vast knowledge in already working with it. But they don't. At least not to anyone outside this inner sanctum.

I sure would have liked to join you; I'm pretty sure my questions would become less stupider (sic) as time went on. People who know and enjoy quality audio/video are a dying breed. Those who still pay for it and not steal it are an endangered species..Those who would still pay for and not steal a program to organize said audio/video the way JRiver seems to be able to are nearly extinct. Good job Guardians -you killed a young white rhino with money...  

[mwillems]

Is there anyone who reviews these forums that actually works for JRiver? I chalk up the lack of response to my question by anyone not employed by them as somehow too stupid to dignify with a response...and it very well could be as if I knew that answer I probably wouldn't have to ask it in the first place. Maybe there's another place on the forum where this issue was addressed-I couldn't find one before I asked the question.

But one (and so far it seems only one) would think that a respectful legitimate question asked by a paid customer who wants to embrace the product and not diss it would be acknowledged by a company moderator, especially in lieu of having a real owners manual or other information portal other than a confusing and poorly organized wiki link.

If this were Avid and I was asking a ProTools question I would expect such poor response and service. But it's not, is it? I ass-u-med the non-employees here who post regularly act as a quasi-support staff of like-minded audiophiles and cheerleaders of the product and would welcome turning other people onto their enjoyment through their vast knowledge in already working with it. But they don't. At least not to anyone outside this inner sanctum.

I sure would have liked to join you; I'm pretty sure my questions would become less stupider (sic) as time went on. People who know and enjoy quality audio/video are a dying breed. Those who still pay for it and not steal it are an endangered species..Those who would still pay for and not steal a program to organize said audio/video the way JRiver seems to be able to (?) are nearly extinct. Good job Guardians -you killed a young white rhino with money...  

I doubt this will survive long not being removed by a moderator-but at least one will have responded.

Your thread probably just got missed in the shuffle (these forums are pretty high volume and JRiver is a small company).  All you have to do is bump it if a few days have passed and nobody responded.  JRiver staff read the forums regularly (I'm not one of them, but they're around). Name-calling ("too stupid," etc.) won't help.

As for your issue:  the problem seems to be that if you open an 8 channel output at the OS level your receiver assumes it's getting an multichannel input and mixes accordingly?  

The easy solution to the problem is to use JRiver for mixing and DSP and turn off the DSP in the receiver.  I know you said that's not your preference, but I'm not sure how JRiver could meaningfully solve the issue of how the receiver detects input streams.  If you select stereo or source number of channels in JRiver's output format, then JRiver is only sending two streams.  If the receiver still registers a multichannel input, it sounds like the receiver's input detection is the issue.  I'm not too familiar with the mac audio stack; it's possible it might work better with a direct connection in windows (i.e. WASAPI), but I wouldn't place any bets on it.

If you could explain what the receiver DSP you're using does, we might be able to suggest ways to better replicate it in JRiver.  Generally JRiver's upmixing works great without too much configuration.

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1st off- THANKS for answering- I appreciate that. I never called anyone here "too stupid"- I said I figured that my own original question may have been "too stupid" to be answered-please reread and accept apologies for any misunderstandings...my frustration is/was based on knowing the experts and company reps here could have answers to my issue and not getting any after seeing over 50 people had read it according to the counter on the post itself that tells how many views it had.

Your assessment about my issue is spot on-Before JRiver I had my system $$$$ professionally pink noised and set up to where every separate pre-amp input source (tuner, TV, Phono, BluRay, Oppo Hi res, etc) had it's own customized signal path; EQ, DSP (or not), even matched output levels. I am willing to forego that much versatility for the JRiver finger tip access, but I'd like some. I've decided I am only using JRiver for audio-no video so I still have those to use there.

The problem with the easy solution you mention (I think??) is I can't control the DSP settings for the "create surround effect from 2-channel sources (sic)" . Let alone  that even if I could get it right on 24/192 FLACS, settings for 320 MP3's or my 24/96 vinyl rips many times need to be different as they are overbearing. It seems creating a custom DSP setting effects everything (including existing surround mixes) and (again I think) this eliminates the create surround for 2-channel option above- I've been trying to live with it and the stock setting but I honestly got so frustrated with my ignorance and lack of help I walked away from the whole thing last week. It doesn't sound as good as what I had and I'm not sure how it could.

I'm guessing this is why JRiver put this option in here in the first place, and why $$$$ consumer multi-channel DAC's exist? I'd love to get an exaSoundE28. It seems it would solve my problems. I'd also love to stay married. There is no option C) both, to be had here 

If anyone is willing to help, I'd like to know:

1) Is there a better way to get the audio out of the Mac for my needs? (USB?)
2) Is it truly a problem with my model of preamp (Onkyo PRS-C5509) and/or someone has made this work with their model?
3) Is there a way to edit DSP settings for the "create surround effect" in DSP Studio? (so for 2-channel mode only)
4) If so, is there a way to write a smartlist to switch DSP Studio settings based on format (2-ch MP3, Wav, FLAC)?
5) Is there a way to have JRiver (or anything) automatically control the Audio/MIDI settings on the Mac to switch when 2-channel or multi-source) I like to random 90% of the time and for playlists...

Again thanks for the answer and renewing some faith in audiophile humanity...now if we could only work on the rest...

[mwillems]

3) Is there a way to edit DSP settings for the "create surround effect" in DSP Studio? (so for 2-channel mode only)
4) If so, is there a way to write a smartlist to switch DSP Studio settings based on format (2-ch MP3, Wav, FLAC)?

I can't speak to the mac/receiver specific issues as I have neither a mac nor a receiver, but I can answer these two. 

3) I'm not sure what the "create surround effect" setting you're referring to is?  Are you talking about the JRSS upmixing in output format?  Or the "surround field" setting under "effects"?  I think it would be helpful if you could explain a little more what end resulkt you're trying to achieve.  Are you just trying to handle upmixing for 2 channel sources, but not multichannel sources? If so that's easy to do: just pick 5.1 or 7.1 as your channel output in output format, it will upmix stereo and leave 5.1 or 7.1 files alone.  The surround field setting under effects is just to simulate surround when you don't have multiple speakers.  If you want stereo tracks to sound more like multichannel tracks, upmixing is the way to go.  If you're trying to achieve something else, let's talk it through.   Regardless see the answer in 4) for more details.

4) You can customize and switch DSP presets in a number of ways in JRiver. 

A) Depending on your switching needs have a look at the wiki on zones and zoneswitch: http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Zones.  That allows you to create multiple DSP presets and have JRiver automatically switch between them based on rules you specify.  All DSP and output formats can be different on a zone by zone basis. The main limitation of zones is that they don't switch during playlists, zoneswitch only engages when you start playback.  This is ideal if you want different presets for different input types and don't listen to a lot of mixed playlists (i.e. one zone for movies, one for audio, etc.).

B) in JRiver 20 a new feature was introduced that would allow for switching DSP profiles on the fly during playlists.  This DSP switching functionality is slightly less flexible than zones, but allows for changing DSP on a track by track basis.  The feature is still relatively new so there isn't a wiki entry, but how it works is this.  Set your DSP the way you wnat it for a certain type of track and then click the "Load/Save" button on the DSP studio window, and save the DSP profile with a descriptive name.  Then change the settings so they match what you'd want for a different file type, save them, and repeat as needed.  Once you've got all your pre-sets set up, tag your files with the name of the appropriate preset in the "DSP" tag on each file.  That may sound like it would take a while, but it can actually be done in a few minutes if you use smartlists to filter the files and change them all at once. 

If you don't need switching within playlists, A) is better because it's much easier, but B) will allow you to specify what DSP is applied on a file by file basis and switching will happen during playlists.  But if you could explain exactly what kind of DSP you're trying to apply to what kinds of files (at a very basic level), we might be able to come up with a really easy way to do what you want.

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Wow!! This looks exactly like where I need to dive in to figure this out-from reading through the thread link you gave and going a bit deeper it seems I could even write specific DSP settings ("zones") for each 2-channel format (Flac/Wav/MP3)-even down to specific Genres or Artists or tracks per album and have them switch automatically on the fly while shuffling? All the while leaving existing 5.1 mixes (SACD iso) alone while they random as well?? If so something like that that is an amazing (if quite daunting) amount of versatility to control. Yikes!

Thanks-I have a lot of playing to do. For now I'm putting an 240 gig SSD in my MacBook Pro this week-not just for speed but more to be able to stash it behind the HDTV and let it run 24/7 with less moving parts. I have a 5TB LaCie external for files. With my iPad with JRemote and Reflector I'm able to swipe between iPad screen(s), JRiver player pages and even the DSP Studio Analyzer via Bluetooth touch/keypads-which oddly enough is a fascinating thing to watch a couple of bottles into the party...maybe that's just my inner geek coming out tho...

I'm sure I'll have some hiccups on this quest to ask about but I greatly appreciate the treasure map you've provided.

[mwillems]

Wow!! This looks exactly like where I need to dive in to figure this out-from reading through the thread link you gave and going a bit deeper it seems I could even write specific DSP settings ("zones") for each 2-channel format (Flac/Wav/MP3)-even down to specific Genres or Artists or tracks per album and have them switch automatically on the fly while shuffling? All the while leaving existing 5.1 mixes (SACD iso) alone while they random as well?? If so something like that that is an amazing (if quite daunting) amount of versatility to control. Yikes!

As I understand it the new DSP preset loading should allow you to do exactly that. 

Let us know how it goes when you start working on it; I'm happy to help if you hit any roadblocks