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[flac.rules]

I have had a problem with files getting automatically deleted from playlists, I suspect it has something to do with have a library server, and running MC on a client and a that does not have the right to view all the files. Or possible because I moved abit around on a drive, so it cahnged drive letters for a short while. So I wonderes under what conditions files are automatically removed from playlists?

[mwillems]

I'm not sure about removing them from playlists specifically, but auto-import automatically removes missing files from the library if you enable the "fix broken links" option in auto-import.  That would remove them from playlists (or anywhere else for that matter).

It's important to turn that off temporarily when you move files around until you can get your database updated (or just use MC to move things instead of explorer).

[flac.rules]

I'm not sure about removing them from playlists specifically, but auto-import automatically removes missing files from the library if you enable the "fix broken links" option in auto-import.  That would remove them from playlists (or anywhere else for that matter).

It's important to turn that off temporarily when you move files around until you can get your database updated (or just use MC to move things instead of explorer).

The files are in the library still, so I don't think that is the problem. But the way you say it it seems like files not in the library are removed from playlists. Do you know if there is a readon for this behavior, or something i can turn of? I would much rather they where not removed.

[mwillems]

The files are in the library still, so I don't think that is the problem. But the way you say it it seems like files not in the library are removed from playlists. Do you know if there is a readon for this behavior, or something i can turn of? I would much rather they where not removed.

What may be happening is that "fix broken links" is removing them, but they're being automatically re-imported by auto-import in a new location.  They would then "still be in the library," but they'd actually be a new instance and wouldn't show up on playlists etc.  Just a theory.

Try turning off "fix broken links" in the auto-import options and see if it helps.

[flac.rules]

What may be happening is that "fix broken links" is removing them, but they're being automatically re-imported by auto-import in a new location.  They would then "still be in the library," but they'd actually be a new instance and wouldn't show up on playlists etc.  Just a theory.

Try turning off "fix broken links" in the auto-import options and see if it helps.

It didn't seem like that was enabled. But I am still interested in the mechanism behind this, when is files removed from playlists automatically, and why? It doesn't seem like a good idea to change static playlists like that.

[glynor]

The only time files are removed from regular playlists is if:

* You manually remove the files.
* The file is no longer in MC.

What mwillems was trying to explain is that if the database entry is removed (because you moved the file external from MC, for example) and then re-added, then as far as MC is concerned this is a BRAND NEW file.  This will remove it from all Playlists.  It should be easy to tell if this is happening based on the [Date Imported] field for the files in question.

Each file in MC is assigned a file key (like a serial number) which is how it is tracked in the database.  Manual Playlists are essentially lists of these file keys.  If the file key no longer points to a valid file, then it is removed from the database (if the Fix Broken Links feature is enabled, as it is by default), which also removes it from any Playlists.

[flac.rules]

The only time files are removed from regular playlists is if:

* You manually remove the files.
* The file is no longer in MC.

What mwillems was trying to explain is that if the database entry is removed (because you moved the file external from MC, for example) and then re-added, then as far as MC is concerned this is a BRAND NEW file.  This will remove it from all Playlists.  It should be easy to tell if this is happening based on the [Date Imported] field for the files in question.

Each file in MC is assigned a file key (like a serial number) which is how it is tracked in the database.  Manual Playlists are essentially lists of these file keys.  If the file key no longer points to a valid file, then it is removed from the database (if the Fix Broken Links feature is enabled, as it is by default), which also removes it from any Playlists.

Ok, I think the reason is connected to the fact that I have a client computer connected, which writes changes back to the server, and several users, where not all users have the right too see all files in the database. So they open the playlist, not all files are there, and the playlists are changed. (I am still investigating, but that is my working hypothesis at the moment)

But no matter the reason, is there someway to change this behaviour? I never want anything to be automatically removed from my static playlists no matter what, they contain important information, even if not all files can be played at the moment. I think this is a "dangerous" behaviour. I use smartlists for things i excpect to dynamically change due to cicrumstances.

[glynor]

That's an interesting theory. Client copies can update playlists, but I don't think they'll auto remove broken links.  They should not, anyway.  Only the Server should, and only if the relevant auto-import option is enabled.

Worth testing, but I'm somewhat skeptical. I can replicate it here too.

Users CAN manually edit the lists though.  You sure one of your users isn't actually deleting the broken files when encountered?

[mwillems]

Client auto-import settings can sometimes affect how the server auto-import works (Glynor do you remember a longish thread on this at one point? I don't think that was ever fixed); maybe try turning off auto-import on all your clients?

[flac.rules]

That's an interesting theory. Client copies can update playlists, but I don't think they'll auto remove broken links.  They should not, anyway.  Only the Server should, and only if the relevant auto-import option is enabled.

Worth testing, but I'm somewhat skeptical. I can replicate it here too.

Users CAN manually edit the lists though.  You sure one of your users isn't actually deleting the broken files when encountered?

Okay, thanks for the info, I will try to investigate som more here and see if i can replicate something consistently.

Well you cant be 100% sure about anything, but if a user has done it, it is even more disturbing, as I am the only user of the lists, so if so a trip to the doctor might be in order

[MusicHawk]

Are the Playlists actually playlists or are they Smartlists?

Because a smartlist uses a formula to select files, typically based on tags/properties, any change in those tags/properties can cause the file to disappear (or appear). The Stars Rating field is especially vulnerable because it is (too) easy to click and thereby change the Rating field value.

[glynor]

Okay, thanks for the info, I will try to investigate som more here and see if i can replicate something consistently.

Well you cant be 100% sure about anything, but if a user has done it, it is even more disturbing, as I am the only user of the lists, so if so a trip to the doctor might be in order

Just to be clear above... When I said:

I can replicate it here too.

I meant I can try.  I haven't tried yet.

[marko]

playlists + client/server = scary mess



http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=93754.msg646718#msg646718

(I'm all out of pixie dust )

[glynor]

I've definitely seen (and documented) problems with Playlists with the Client/Server setup, but not this particular thing.

What I've seen are:

* Smartlists (and Views) that reference nPlaylistID get broken if any edits are made on the Server while any Client is connected.
* Playlists that are created or modified from Clients can cause duplicates (like the example Marko screenshotted above, though I've never seen one so extreme)

I've never seen it delete individual items from a Playlist, though.  I'm testing it tonight though.  I'm adding a bunch of files in my Library that are offline (so unavailable on disk) to a Playlist, mixed with other valid files, and I'll browse around with those on my Client and see what happens.

If that doesn't replicate it, I might be able to do some user-permissions trickery, but only if this is isolated as the cause (because, at home at least, it'll be a PITA to replicate).

[flac.rules]

I haven't been able to reproduce it easily, so it must be a somewhat complicated set of circumstances, or something I have missed (could it be that on some clients I have not mapped up the drives the files on the library is on, and it can cause problems if there is a connection problems).

Anyhow, since it not easily reproducable, I think the most important thing is not the exact  reason, but rather that playlists should be handled differently (IMHO), first of all, static playlists shouldn't delete files not in the library. And why not save them as regular database-entries somehow? I would like to star a playlist, and tag them and so on.

[glynor]

My broken file test Playlist includes both:

* Drives that exist with missing files
* Drives that exist on the server (but are disconnected) but are not mapped on the clients

(Along with a smattering of files that exist and work, of course.)  No files have been removed from test list I made now two nights ago.  I've viewed and played items off of the Playlist from the client copies as well.  So far, I haven't seen any issues at all here.