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[Rafal Lukawiecki]

You're making my head spin
2 possibilities.
One from the Grub boot menu, boot the older Kernel (3.14.4) and see if there is any difference.
The other, did you update your bios in this process and if so when? That bios changed the HDMI initialization (allowed the Id to boot in GUI mode without an attached monitor).

Sorry about your head, Bob! I'll test booting the older Kernel to see if that helps. To the best of my knowledge I did not knowingly update the BIOS unless the USB stick did that. I used the full sequence on the stick, fixing the boot loader, checking the file system, updating to the new firmware, and for a good measure, even did the memtest. I'll check the version next time, too.

Many thanks.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

Unfortunately, mode 1 (GUI) also stops sending audio to my receiver, as I have learned trying to play the following morning. The receiver knows HDMI is plugged it, as it reports it is "1080p", but also says "No signal". Unplugging and plugging HDMI back changes nothing. Rebooting helps.

I still have to try the older Kernel.

[bob]

Unfortunately, mode 1 (GUI) also stops sending audio to my receiver, as I have learned trying to play the following morning. The receiver knows HDMI is plugged it, as it reports it is "1080p", but also says "No signal". Unplugging and plugging HDMI back changes nothing. Rebooting helps.

I still have to try the older Kernel.

Are you absolutely certain that this is a new issue?

Let me know when you try the older kernel. I'm holding up on the OTA update until we can track this down. Thanks.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

Are you absolutely certain that this is a new issue?

Let me know when you try the older kernel. I'm holding up on the OTA update until we can track this down. Thanks.

Bob, I'm just on a trip abroad to Norway, and I won't be back till Thursday afternoon—I am sorry about this, but the last few days were very full and I had no chance to retest with the older kernel. I hope it doesn't mess up your plans too much.

Regards from Oslo,
Rafal

[bob]

Bob, I'm just on a trip abroad to Norway, and I won't be back till Thursday afternoon—I am sorry about this, but the last few days were very full and I had no chance to retest with the older kernel. I hope it doesn't mess up your plans too much.

Regards from Oslo,
Rafal

Enjoy your vacation!

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

Enjoy your vacation!

Alas, this was a business trip. But I am back home, and I had a chance to have another look at the Id and the problem of it losing connection to the amp. It seems like it *is* working in GUI mode (1) and it is surviving amp power-offs and input changes. What triggered the last failure was that it must have rebooted (perhaps we had a power failure, which happens relatively more often here than in US) and it locked up on the boot screen with the message I have been seeing, occasionally, from the very beginning of me owning this Id: "a thermal trip occurred...press Enter to continue". Once I attached the keyboard and pressed Enter it booted into GUI and is working now. I will check if it is so tomorrow, giving it overnight.

Would you still like me to check the older Kernel with modes 2 and 3, which, currently, do not work—ie. they "lose" the HDMI "connection" to the amp?

Also, is there any way to get rid of that message or at least make it go away automatically?

Thanks, Rafal.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

^^^^ I concluded too early. Even in GUI mode 1 Id still loses the "connection" to my amp. Here is the weird thing. It only loses audio and not video. I can see it on the screen, it thinks it is playing something, but there is no signal on the HDMI audio coming in.

Will test the older kernel.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

^^^^ Nope. I cannot even boot Id using the older kernel. This is what happens when I select it in the grub menu, and it gets stuck on this forever. On a next reboot also using older kernel screen just goes black.

It does boot using the new kernel, but loses the audio connection.

[bob]

^^^^ Nope. I cannot even boot Id using the older kernel. This is what happens when I select it in the grub menu, and it gets stuck on this forever. On a next reboot also using older kernel screen just goes black.

It does boot using the new kernel, but loses the audio connection.

That's the 3.14.4 kernel boot, not the 3.2 kernel boot?

Could you try the OTA update (make a library backup first for safety)?

It should be easy to boot the 3.14.4 kernel after the OTA update, I've done it lots here.

Thanks.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

That's the 3.14.4 kernel boot, not the 3.2 kernel boot?

Could you try the OTA update (make a library backup first for safety)?

It should be easy to boot the 3.14.4 kernel after the OTA update, I've done it lots here.

Thanks.

Yes, this was me trying to boot into 3.14.4 on an Id that had its beta 10 installed, together with the updated grub. However, I have *not* updated the BIOS of this Id. Could you confirm, Bob, if you would like me to update the BIOS or not, and should I just do OTA update then try booting into 3.14.4? I have some time now to try it. Thanks.

[bob]

Yes, this was me trying to boot into 3.14.4 on an Id that had its beta 10 installed, together with the updated grub. However, I have *not* updated the BIOS of this Id. Could you confirm, Bob, if you would like me to update the BIOS or not, and should I just do OTA update then try booting into 3.14.4? I have some time now to try it. Thanks.

The bios is still on 0034 correct?
The OTA is just a bit different than beta 10 and that difference is in the boot menu.
If you wouldn't mind trying the OTA update that would be great. Be sure to have a backup of the library and the beta-10 stick available in case something goes wrong.
With beta 10 you MAY have to run the update twice.
It's always safer to do it from text mode.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

The bios is still on 0034 correct?
The OTA is just a bit different than beta 10 and that difference is in the boot menu.
If you wouldn't mind trying the OTA update that would be great. Be sure to have a backup of the library and the beta-10 stick available in case something goes wrong.
With beta 10 you MAY have to run the update twice.
It's always safer to do it from text mode.

OK. Will switch to text mode and run the update option twice. BIOS is still the older one, I have never updated it—I presume this is what you would prefer. I will report as soon as I am back up and running, hopefully soon.

[bob]

OK. Will switch to text mode and run the update option twice. BIOS is still the older one, I have never updated it—I presume this is what you would prefer. I will report as soon as I am back up and running, hopefully soon.

Yes, please start with the 34 bios. Thanks!

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

Yes, please start with the 34 bios. Thanks!

Ok, I've spent a couple of hours testing, here are the results. First of all, I am using BIOS which identifies itself on the boot screen as 2.16.1242 Ver 1AREF021. If I go into the boot setup menu, somewhere there I can see the string "0034" but that is not displayed on the start-up screen. Hope it is the right one, I've never updated it, it is what the Id came with.

I've switched to text mode using a different monitor and I have run the OTA update twice. First one took some 98 MB and installed, the second one did not seem to need to update anything, but it did connect. The new update sequence is more verbatim, thanks for that. It requires "Enter" at the end, which might not be ideal for some users, but OK with me.

After the update I quickly checked if the new version in either of the text modes would work for me. It would not at all: there was no HDMI sound coming to the amp, but the image was there. GUI mode works but I did not test it extensively. Interestingly, I had to disconnect and reconnect the external USB hard drive for it to be recognised: it was not recognising it upon boot, now it does, after reboots.

Reboots are not fail-proof. Occasionally it all locks up with a black screen after ending the reboot sequence, just prior to hardware restarting, requiring force-shutdown (long power press). I'd say 1 out of 5 reboots causes this issue.

I tried booting 3.14 and 3.16 in text mode with HDMI init: it locks up the hardware completely as soon as it tries to initialise HDMI. Keyboard becomes inoperative and force power-down is needed. It boots in 3.14 and 3.16 in text without HDMI init, however, no sound arrives at the amp, only the image (hard to read as it is multiply wrapped-around itself in huge font).

It will not boot 3.14 into GUI at all: hardware locks up after a very few Linux messages flash up on the screen, perhaps related to HDMI or maybe not. The very first time I tried to boot 3.14 into GUI I got these messages and it locked up requiring forced power-off (see attached image).

I am currently running 3.16 in GUI mode, which works. I have tried a few power-off and input-change sequences, and it seems to have survived them maintaining audio. However, I have not tried that yet after a prolonged amp off period, like overnight, which caused the previous GUI mode to lose its audio HDMI "connection". I will report tomorrow, after the overnight period. I have no reasons to believe that 3.2 GUI would be any different after those updates, as I have only tried 3.2 GUI before the updates (and it had the overnight problem). So if all works tomorrow (or not) I will report and I will try 3.2 GUI too, with the overnight amp downtime test.

[bob]

Ok, I've spent a couple of hours testing, here are the results. First of all, I am using BIOS which identifies itself on the boot screen as 2.16.1242 Ver 1AREF021. If I go into the boot setup menu, somewhere there I can see the string "0034" but that is not displayed on the start-up screen. Hope it is the right one, I've never updated it, it is what the Id came with.

I've switched to text mode using a different monitor and I have run the OTA update twice. First one took some 98 MB and installed, the second one did not seem to need to update anything, but it did connect. The new update sequence is more verbatim, thanks for that. It requires "Enter" at the end, which might not be ideal for some users, but OK with me.

After the update I quickly checked if the new version in either of the text modes would work for me. It would not at all: there was no HDMI sound coming to the amp, but the image was there. GUI mode works but I did not test it extensively. Interestingly, I had to disconnect and reconnect the external USB hard drive for it to be recognised: it was not recognising it upon boot, now it does, after reboots.

Reboots are not fail-proof. Occasionally it all locks up with a black screen after ending the reboot sequence, just prior to hardware restarting, requiring force-shutdown (long power press). I'd say 1 out of 5 reboots causes this issue.

I tried booting 3.14 and 3.16 in text mode with HDMI init: it locks up the hardware completely as soon as it tries to initialise HDMI. Keyboard becomes inoperative and force power-down is needed. It boots in 3.14 and 3.16 in text without HDMI init, however, no sound arrives at the amp, only the image (hard to read as it is multiply wrapped-around itself in huge font).

It will not boot 3.14 into GUI at all: hardware locks up after a very few Linux messages flash up on the screen, perhaps related to HDMI or maybe not. The very first time I tried to boot 3.14 into GUI I got these messages and it locked up requiring forced power-off (see attached image).

I am currently running 3.16 in GUI mode, which works. I have tried a few power-off and input-change sequences, and it seems to have survived them maintaining audio. However, I have not tried that yet after a prolonged amp off period, like overnight, which caused the previous GUI mode to lose its audio HDMI "connection". I will report tomorrow, after the overnight period. I have no reasons to believe that 3.2 GUI would be any different after those updates, as I have only tried 3.2 GUI before the updates (and it had the overnight problem). So if all works tomorrow (or not) I will report and I will try 3.2 GUI too, with the overnight amp downtime test.

Thanks for the testing!
Don't bother with the 3.2 kernel.

What I can draw from above
----------------------------------
It appears your amp requires the HDMI init.
3.14.4 fails  and it looks like it's because of a hardware lockup.
Can you test with no external hardware connected (dac or drive)
I'm wondering if your Id has a memory issue, can you do the memtest off of the beta-10 boot stick?

I have no trouble making 3.14.4 boot here.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

Thanks for the testing!
Don't bother with the 3.2 kernel.

What I can draw from above
----------------------------------
It appears your amp requires the HDMI init.
3.14.4 fails  and it looks like it's because of a hardware lockup.
Can you test with no external hardware connected (dac or drive)
I'm wondering if your Id has a memory issue, can you do the memtest off of the beta-10 boot stick?

I have no trouble making 3.14.4 boot here.

Thanks, Bob. I'll test the boot into GUI or HDMI using 3.14 and I will test it not just on the regular hifi setup with the amp that needs HDMI init, but also on a regular monitor, just to see if it boots. I will test without the external USB hard drive, which is the only device plugged in other than the keyboard. I do not use any external DACs, as I feed the amp via HDMI.

I have done the full memtest a short while ago, a couple of weeks at most, using the USB for beta 5 or 6 or 7. It took almost 30 minutes and passed without any issues to report. Should I do it again?

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

^^^^ Bob, I just read your comments about BIOS 0048 fixing hang-on-reboot issues and some HDMI init related ones. Would you recommend I upgraded the BIOS, too? Or would you like test results with 0034?

[bob]

^^^^ Bob, I just read your comments about BIOS 0048 fixing hang-on-reboot issues and some HDMI init related ones. Would you recommend I upgraded the BIOS, too? Or would you like test results with 0034?

The particular effect I wanted to test was your issues with the kernel in the beta 10 vs 3.14.4. Upgrading the bios first adds another variable.
That said, if you are getting tired of this it's fine to upgrade the bios to 48.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

The particular effect I wanted to test was your issues with the kernel in the beta 10 vs 3.14.4. Upgrading the bios first adds another variable.
That said, if you are getting tired of this it's fine to upgrade the bios to 48.

Bob, I have a few new test results for you. I have continued to use BIOS 34, I have not updated it, so that you got an answer without introducing this new variable, as kindly suggested by you.

First of all, the overnight test of GUI 3.16 was negative, I am sorry to say. In other words, although video remained, audio had "disconnected" as in all the previous attempts. I do not know at what point in time this happens, but I expect it takes about 1-2 hours of no use. Perhaps the issue is that when the amp comes back to the input it somehow wants to resynch but it is not getting the audio syncing? Which is strange, as video works. I have little knowledge of HDMI protocol, so I am making a very uneducated guess, of course.

Subsequently I unplugged the external hard drive and I tried booting the device into 3.14. As before, I cannot boot 3.14 with HDMI init (it locks up) and I can without HMDI init (but I get no audio, only video in 25x80).

Then I tried booting 3.14 with HDMI init on a computer monitor, which was successful. Clearly to me, the issue is something to do with the HDMI not agreeing with Id anymore.

Then I remembered how I had to boot Id before I tried the beta, that is to boot without HDMI plugged in, but in text with HDMI mode, plugging HDMI later. I could not make it autostart 3.14, but it does autostart in 3.16 (since I cannot see what it starting it needs to select the system automatically). As expected, it booted, but after plugging HDMI I could not get the audio.

Then I tried booting it again in 3.16 with HDMI init, but with the amp plugged in via HDMI but the projector (which goes to the amp) switched off: this combination would hang the Id on boot. Interestingly, it did boot this way and I could get audio, but audio was lost after the first amp power off.

It seems the only way to sustain audio for a while is by booting into GUI, but that does not last more than 2 hours of downtime.

I will download the BIOS v48 as per your instructions and try that. If you have any other suggestions, please let me know. I am keen to help, but it would be nice to "have my Id back" so to speak, so I may have to revert to the much older version if none of this works out—what do you think?

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

Bob, I also noticed one other unrelated (it seems) issue. When running Id in GUI mode I got this error (see first attachment) which meant that the "playing now" bar keeps showing that music is playing but it says "buffering". As a result JRemote does not update the playhead until the error message is dismissed by clicking OK on the screen, which is not possible without a monitor.

[bob]

Bob, I have a few new test results for you. I have continued to use BIOS 34, I have not updated it, so that you got an answer without introducing this new variable, as kindly suggested by you.

First of all, the overnight test of GUI 3.16 was negative, I am sorry to say. In other words, although video remained, audio had "disconnected" as in all the previous attempts. I do not know at what point in time this happens, but I expect it takes about 1-2 hours of no use. Perhaps the issue is that when the amp comes back to the input it somehow wants to resynch but it is not getting the audio syncing? Which is strange, as video works. I have little knowledge of HDMI protocol, so I am making a very uneducated guess, of course.

Subsequently I unplugged the external hard drive and I tried booting the device into 3.14. As before, I cannot boot 3.14 with HDMI init (it locks up) and I can without HMDI init (but I get no audio, only video in 25x80).

Then I tried booting 3.14 with HDMI init on a computer monitor, which was successful. Clearly to me, the issue is something to do with the HDMI not agreeing with Id anymore.

Then I remembered how I had to boot Id before I tried the beta, that is to boot without HDMI plugged in, but in text with HDMI mode, plugging HDMI later. I could not make it autostart 3.14, but it does autostart in 3.16 (since I cannot see what it starting it needs to select the system automatically). As expected, it booted, but after plugging HDMI I could not get the audio.

Then I tried booting it again in 3.16 with HDMI init, but with the amp plugged in via HDMI but the projector (which goes to the amp) switched off: this combination would hang the Id on boot. Interestingly, it did boot this way and I could get audio, but audio was lost after the first amp power off.

It seems the only way to sustain audio for a while is by booting into GUI, but that does not last more than 2 hours of downtime.

I will download the BIOS v48 as per your instructions and try that. If you have any other suggestions, please let me know. I am keen to help, but it would be nice to "have my Id back" so to speak, so I may have to revert to the much older version if none of this works out—what do you think?

I'd like to confirm that the way you were using the Id before the Beta updates is that you booted it (3.14) without ANY HDMI devices plugged in (amp, monitor, etc) in text HDMI initialization mode?
That never worked before, it was the point of creating a headless text mode that didn't try to initialize HDMI.

It wouldn't hurt to try bios 48, you can always go back to 34 if you need to.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

I'd like to confirm that the way you were using the Id before the Beta updates is that you booted it (3.14) without ANY HDMI devices plugged in (amp, monitor, etc) in text HDMI initialization mode?
That never worked before, it was the point of creating a headless text mode that didn't try to initialize HDMI.

It wouldn't hurt to try bios 48, you can always go back to 34 if you need to.

Yes, this is how I used to use it, however, I cannot be sure what was the version of the software on it, as I have never verified it. Suffice to say, I have not upgraded it in any other way since buying it except for the OTA updates which you have made available. So to confirm, this is how it worked for me:

  1. Unplug HDMI from the back of Id.
  2. Power it on, wait a few minutes (2-3).
  3. Plug HDMI in, and now forget and enjoy.

At that time, Id was always in mode "Text with HDMI". I never used it in GUI mode (it was too hard to see things) and it would definitely NOT work in "Headless text no monitor required".

If you can offer me the image, I could rebuild it and check for you if that helps, though I realise I would lose the external USB drive support.

I also have new test results for you, as I have just completed the BIOS update to 0048. I have tested 3.16 Text with HDMI Init and it boots and audio works initially but it does not survive even one amp power off. I am now running it in 3.16 GUI, which like before, works and survives amp power-off and input changes on the amp, but I do not know for how long. I will leave it purposefully untouched for 2-3 hours and I will report back before I'm off for the night, otherwise I will know tomorrow morning. I wonder if this is related to the screen saver etc on the GUI Id.

[bob]

Yes, this is how I used to use it, however, I cannot be sure what was the version of the software on it, as I have never verified it. Suffice to say, I have not upgraded it in any other way since buying it except for the OTA updates which you have made available. So to confirm, this is how it worked for me:

  1. Unplug HDMI from the back of Id.
  2. Power it on, wait a few minutes (2-3).
  3. Plug HDMI in, and now forget and enjoy.

At that time, Id was always in mode "Text with HDMI". I never used it in GUI mode (it was too hard to see things) and it would definitely NOT work in "Headless text no monitor required".

If you can offer me the image, I could rebuild it and check for you if that helps, though I realise I would lose the external USB drive support.

I also have new test results for you, as I have just completed the BIOS update to 0048. I have tested 3.16 Text with HDMI Init and it boots and audio works initially but it does not survive even one amp power off. I am now running it in 3.16 GUI, which like before, works and survives amp power-off and input changes on the amp, but I do not know for how long. I will leave it purposefully untouched for 2-3 hours and I will report back before I'm off for the night, otherwise I will know tomorrow morning. I wonder if this is related to the screen saver etc on the GUI Id.

I just don't understand how you were able to get it to boot without a monitor in that "Text with HDMI mode" with nothing plugged into the HDMI port at any point of the booting process!
How did the amp ever get initialized?

As for the headless mode, when you say "would definitely NOT work" do you mean it wouldn't boot or wouldn't use the amp after booting?

On the GUI if you go into MC Options->Audio->Device Settings and Check "Disable display from turning off (Useful for HDMI Audio)" it will prevent the HDMI from going off.

In general, I don't really know how the Id is supposed to be able to tell your amp has been powercycled while playing.


On the other topic, I was able to reproduce the issue with the playback display not updating while the tagging error is on the screen. Mine kept playing though, did yours?

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

I just don't understand how you were able to get it to boot without a monitor in that "Text with HDMI mode" with nothing plugged into the HDMI port at any point of the booting process!
How did the amp ever get initialized?

As for the headless mode, when you say "would definitely NOT work" do you mean it wouldn't boot or wouldn't use the amp after booting?

On the GUI if you go into MC Options->Audio->Device Settings and Check "Disable display from turning off (Useful for HDMI Audio)" it will prevent the HDMI from going off.

In general, I don't really know how the Id is supposed to be able to tell your amp has been powercycled while playing.


On the other topic, I was able to reproduce the issue with the playback display not updating while the tagging error is on the screen. Mine kept playing though, did yours?

Bob, that option (Disable display from turning off) has already been checked on. So far, audio stayed "connected". I have experienced a different problem, though: the external USB drive somehow disappeared and nothing would play from the library. I have unplugged it and plugged it back and it is OK again. I will leave it overnight to see if audio stays connected with the new BIOS...fingers crossed...

I don't know what is causing those issues, but my feeling is that HDMI drivers, whatever they are, may not be robust enough in this case. The only way to prove would be, I think, to revert back to the old system and see if it remains stable. Unless things are good tomorrow, of course!

As for the other issue, thanks for reproducing. In my case it seemed to play (bars moving in GUI) but I could not hear anyway as the audio had disconnected by then.

Thanks for helping.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

Bob, I am sorry to say but the new BIOS, 48, did not help. The issue still remains that even in GUI mode the audio no longer comes back after an overnight idle.

Do you have any other suggestions to test? If not, may I ask you for an older image, before the beta, and using the previous kernels/grub, so as to restore my Id to usability? Sorry about this...

[bob]

Bob, I am sorry to say but the new BIOS, 48, did not help. The issue still remains that even in GUI mode the audio no longer comes back after an overnight idle.

Do you have any other suggestions to test? If not, may I ask you for an older image, before the beta, and using the previous kernels/grub, so as to restore my Id to usability? Sorry about this...

I'm out of ideas. I'm sorry for the trouble.
It looks like beta7 is the last firmware before the 3.16 kernel was added:
http://files.jriver.com/Id/idrepairbeta7.iso
If you do install this and it doesn't solve the problem you may need to reflash bios 34.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

I'm out of ideas. I'm sorry for the trouble.
It looks like beta7 is the last firmware before the 3.16 kernel was added:
http://files.jriver.com/Id/idrepairbeta7.iso
If you do install this and it doesn't solve the problem you may need to reflash bios 34.

Bob, I'm pleased to confirm that beta7 has restored the functionality of my Id. Specifically, I am running with BIOS 48, beta7, an external USB HDD containing the music, library on the internal SSD. I am running in Text mode with HDMI and audio *does* survive amp power cycles and input changes, both short-term, and overnight. In exactly the same setup and mode, beta10 would not survive even a single amp power cycle, as I described earlier. As a bonus, I can now boot into this mode with everything connected up, something I could not do with the older versions/BIOS 34.

I would still like to test the GUI mode to see if it exhibits the overnight audio loss issue that I have experienced with beta10. I will report back tomorrow.

[bob]

Bob, I'm pleased to confirm that beta7 has restored the functionality of my Id. Specifically, I am running with BIOS 48, beta7, an external USB HDD containing the music, library on the internal SSD. I am running in Text mode with HDMI and audio *does* survive amp power cycles and input changes, both short-term, and overnight. In exactly the same setup and mode, beta10 would not survive even a single amp power cycle, as I described earlier. As a bonus, I can now boot into this mode with everything connected up, something I could not do with the older versions/BIOS 34.

I would still like to test the GUI mode to see if it exhibits the overnight audio loss issue that I have experienced with beta10. I will report back tomorrow.

Ok thanks for the report back. It's a mystery to me why you can't boot 3.14.4 in the beta10 or new release to get the same behavior as beta7 though.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

Ok thanks for the report back. It's a mystery to me why you can't boot 3.14.4 in the beta10 or new release to get the same behavior as beta7 though.

I'm sorry but I'm out of ideas, too, other than it seems related to HDMI init. When working with beta10, the "text no init" boots, but "hdmi init" locks up with a black screen, when hooked up to the amp. However, when hooked up to a PC monitor they both boot.

I've a new issue. Playhead doesn't move on JRemote in beta7 and the Play Doctor returns an empty playlist. Playhead definitely worked in beta10. I wonder if this is at all related to the BIOS or did you know of this issue when testing beta7?

Also, would it be possible to the OTA upgrade without going for the newer kernel?

Finally, if you any other ideas what I could test to find out more about the hdmi issue, let me know, please.

[bob]

I'm sorry but I'm out of ideas, too, other than it seems related to HDMI init. When working with beta10, the "text no init" boots, but "hdmi init" locks up with a black screen, when hooked up to the amp. However, when hooked up to a PC monitor they both boot.

I could understand how the new kernel in Beta10 could act differently however booting the 3.14.4 kernel in Beta10 with the  "text no init" and  "hdmi init" choices should give you exactly the same behavior as the Beta7.

I've a new issue. Playhead doesn't move on JRemote in beta7 and the Play Doctor returns an empty playlist. Playhead definitely worked in beta10. I wonder if this is at all related to the BIOS or did you know of this issue when testing beta7?

Playhead ? It that elapsed time? The BIOS can't change that. I'd guess your JRemote settings are different (different access key)?

Also, would it be possible to the OTA upgrade without going for the newer kernel?

No. That will get you back to Beta10 (with a couple of other minor fixes).

Finally, if you any other ideas what I could test to find out more about the hdmi issue, let me know, please.

Will do. thanks for your feedback.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

I could understand how the new kernel in Beta10 could act differently however booting the 3.14.4 kernel in Beta10 with the  "text no init" and  "hdmi init" choices should give you exactly the same behavior as the Beta7.Playhead ? It that elapsed time? The BIOS can't change that. I'd guess your JRemote settings are different (different access key)?No. That will get you back to Beta10 (with a couple of other minor fixes).Will do. thanks for your feedback.

Playhead: track duration shows as 0 and playhead stays at 0. Same access key as before.

Kernel and HDMI. Is it possible that although you have two different kernels, keeping the old version together with the newer, the drivers and other OS stuff (not MC) are newer? So maybe the issue is not the kernel, but some other OS-related stuff that go upgraded. Just guessing...

[bob]

Playhead: track duration shows as 0 and playhead stays at 0. Same access key as before.

Kernel and HDMI. Is it possible that although you have two different kernels, keeping the old version together with the newer, the drivers and other OS stuff (not MC) are newer? So maybe the issue is not the kernel, but some other OS-related stuff that go upgraded. Just guessing...

All of the drivers go along with the respective kernel. The only other thing that might affect it is that the firmware for onboard devices like wifi, ethernet have also been upgraded. However if that was the error you'd think I could reproduce it here.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

Bob, I've got some additional information for you, hopefully it can help you help me. To recap: I'm on Beta 7 with BIOS 48. I cannot boot into GUI (black screen lock up, keyboard dies) while connected to my amp via HDMI. I can boot into GUI while connected to a PC monitor.

I can boot into Text with HDMI while connected to my amp, but only if the amp has not selected the Id input, in that case either Id locks up or boots but does not play (No signal, play head does not move in JRemote). However, if the Id is booted in Text with HDMI mode while connected to the amp but the amp is on some different input, everything works: I can switch to Id and listen, and it sustains audio connection between multiple amp restarts and further channel changes.

It makes me think that the HDMI drivers on the Id are a bit unreliable, and also there is no reason Id should lock up unresponsive just because it is connected to a HDMI source it does not like for some reason. Having said all of that, I am glad I can use it, and I will sit out the next few updates hoping that a new slew of HDMI drivers is made available to you. FYI the amp is an Anthem MRX-710. No issues with any of my other 4 HDMI sources.

If there is anything else I can check out for you, let me know, please. I would like to be back on the update path some time in the future, of course. Now, back to the music.

PS. The problem of the played not moving and duration showing as 0 in JRemote has gone away after a Text-GUI-Text switching and a couple of reboots, I suppose.

[gabeg]

Using beta11...having trouble with DLNA rendering from mc20 (latest) on windows.   Often skips tracks before "settling" on playing one.

[bob]

Found a bug in beta11 (and probably earlier) firmware that doesn't save the backup copy of the license properly when you tell it to preserve settings.
This means that if you later use the restore default settings from the menu on the Id the license goes away. It will be fixed in the next beta.

[astromo]

Before I do something potentially daft, is it possible to get involved here but with an Id USB kit loaded onto some Intel architecture?

[bob]

Using beta11...having trouble with DLNA rendering from mc20 (latest) on windows.   Often skips tracks before "settling" on playing one.

Have you checked to see that conversion is turned off for the DLNA server you have setup to push to the Id and that the DSP studio settings on the Id are set for the capabilities of whatever output device you are using?

[bob]

Before I do something potentially daft, is it possible to get involved here but with an Id USB kit loaded onto some Intel architecture?

The main requirements for the Id USB kit is your device needs to have Intel video to support the GUI mode and the cpu has to support at lease SSE2.

[astromo]

The main requirements for the Id USB kit is your device needs to have Intel video to support the GUI mode and the cpu has to support at lease SSE2.

Yep, got that. Already up, running and fully functional with the latest official build. So, would I be good to go for beta?

[bob]

Yep, got that. Already up, running and fully functional with the latest official build. So, would I be good to go for beta?

I'd wait for the licensing backup fix along with a couple of others, beta 12.

[astromo]

I'd wait for the licensing backup fix along with a couple of others, beta 12.

Copy that. I'll follow your lead. Thanks for letting me know.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

I'd wait for the licensing backup fix along with a couple of others, beta 12.

Bob, any chance that it will be easier to select/use the older kernel, 3.14, with the upcoming betas or the full release? Or do you have any ideas how to solve the freeze-up/lock-up of the Id on HDMI init with the newer kernels? Many thanks.

[bob]

Bob, any chance that it will be easier to select/use the older kernel, 3.14, with the upcoming betas or the full release? Or do you have any ideas how to solve the freeze-up/lock-up of the Id on HDMI init with the newer kernels? Many thanks.

It's pretty easy to select the old one now but that doesn't seem to solve your problem from what I remember.
I think the whole plug/unplug cables before/after the boot process isn't the proper way to handle your issue anyway
I'd rather go forward than backward, the problem is that I cannot duplicate your issue.
I wonder if perhaps a dummy hdmi plug would do what you need?

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

It's pretty easy to select the old one now but that doesn't seem to solve your problem from what I remember.
I think the whole plug/unplug cables before/after the boot process isn't the proper way to handle your issue anyway
I'd rather go forward than backward, the problem is that I cannot duplicate your issue.
I wonder if perhaps a dummy hdmi plug would do what you need?

You're right, it was not just the selection issue... What is a dummy HDMI cable, could you point me to something I could order? I am not familiar with the concept. Thanks!

[bob]

You're right, it was not just the selection issue... What is a dummy HDMI cable, could you point me to something I could order? I am not familiar with the concept. Thanks!

Here's an example of one: (there are lots out there)
http://www.fit-pc.com/web/products/fit-headless/

Here is a thread discussing this:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=91117.msg626304#msg626304

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

Here's an example of one: (there are lots out there)
http://www.fit-pc.com/web/products/fit-headless/

Here is a thread discussing this:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=91117.msg626304#msg626304

Thanks, Bob. I posted a query on that thread, hoping that someone has tried the fit-pc device already. The gist of the thread, if I understood it, is that it might not work, but a different (and much more expensive) Geffen device might do the trick.

As an aside, I am wondering if I might be having a hardware issue at all with the Id.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

Thanks, Bob. I posted a query on that thread, hoping that someone has tried the fit-pc device already. The gist of the thread, if I understood it, is that it might not work, but a different (and much more expensive) Geffen device might do the trick.

As an aside, I am wondering if I might be having a hardware issue at all with the Id.

Bob, I have been running Beta 7, BIOS 48 and kernel 3.14.4 for a while now (since April) after backtracking from the newer beta which prevented me from booting or prevented signal staying synced to the amp, as documented on this thread. I wanted to ask you if you had any new developments that might come with newer HDMI drivers, or any new ideas how to move forward and not be stuck "in the past" as I am at present.

Also, I had no luck getting anyone to comment on the suitability of the HDMI dummy devices on the other thread...before I buy one, I hoped someone weighed in on my specific issue more, but it seems there is even disagreement which device does the trick. Any suggestions?

Finally, the issue of play doctor not working was solved by rebuilding the whole library. Unfortunately the issue of the playhead and elapsed/total time getting stuck at 0 is not gone. Fortunately, restating MC on the Id using JRemote "restart server" function fixes this issue.

Any suggestions if this is a good time to move forward or to wait longer, or to try anything else would be much appreciated.

Thank you.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

Here's an example of one: (there are lots out there)
http://www.fit-pc.com/web/products/fit-headless/

Here is a thread discussing this:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=91117.msg626304#msg626304

Further to above summary, couple more thoughts, Bob. The device you suggested would not work, I think, at all, as it would block the HDMI port (ie I could not plug the cable into it, it just uses the port up on its own). It is not a pass-through adapter of any kind, it is just a simulator of HDMI for cases when one does not need to use the HDMI port. In our case HDMI is essential. The $100+ devices might do the job, but this is the wrong route, in my opinion, with Id.

If Id is to succeed more broadly (and I am not sure what your intentions and plans may be, so apologies for making any assumptions) it just has to work with a broad set of amps and other hifi devices. My amp is a popular and a well liked one, Anthem. It works with every other HDMI device well. So I have been thinking what is different about Id and what do the $100 dongles, like Dr HDMI or HDMI Detective do that could make it work. I wonder if it may be down to something as "simple" as faking EDID information all the time. Those dongles seem to make the other end of the cable think that there is a device connected all the time. Do you think there is any scope in your plans to try and have a look at playing with EDID etc so as to make the amp resynch with the Id every time it comes back online, as opposed to doing this only when Id boots up? Thanks for your thoughts.

[bob]

Further to above summary, couple more thoughts, Bob. The device you suggested would not work, I think, at all, as it would block the HDMI port (ie I could not plug the cable into it, it just uses the port up on its own). It is not a pass-through adapter of any kind, it is just a simulator of HDMI for cases when one does not need to use the HDMI port. In our case HDMI is essential. The $100+ devices might do the job, but this is the wrong route, in my opinion, with Id.

If Id is to succeed more broadly (and I am not sure what your intentions and plans may be, so apologies for making any assumptions) it just has to work with a broad set of amps and other hifi devices. My amp is a popular and a well liked one, Anthem. It works with every other HDMI device well. So I have been thinking what is different about Id and what do the $100 dongles, like Dr HDMI or HDMI Detective do that could make it work. I wonder if it may be down to something as "simple" as faking EDID information all the time. Those dongles seem to make the other end of the cable think that there is a device connected all the time. Do you think there is any scope in your plans to try and have a look at playing with EDID etc so as to make the amp resynch with the Id every time it comes back online, as opposed to doing this only when Id boots up? Thanks for your thoughts.

I think it might be possible to play around with the EDID. The problem we have is that we can't directly duplicate what you are seeing here. The Sony HDMI amp we have just seems to work.
What you are doing to get it to "work" with the old firmware and your amp is pretty kludgy. The interaction with the bios of the Id isn't helping either.
I'll do some research into linux and EDID reset, etc. If you run into something on this topic would you let us know?
Thanks

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

I think it might be possible to play around with the EDID. The problem we have is that we can't directly duplicate what you are seeing here. The Sony HDMI amp we have just seems to work.
What you are doing to get it to "work" with the old firmware and your amp is pretty kludgy. The interaction with the bios of the Id isn't helping either.
I'll do some research into linux and EDID reset, etc. If you run into something on this topic would you let us know?
Thanks

I'll do some research and share if I find anything remotely useful. Do you have any kind of a flowchart or (high-level) code showing how you are initialising and maintaining HDMI signal?