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Author Topic: Zonealarm problem  (Read 2512 times)

john_kane

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Zonealarm problem
« on: March 21, 2015, 11:13:10 am »

Upgraded from 20.0.80 to 2.0.84, and have firewall problems with ZoneAlarm.  Has something changed with network driver or how MC identifies itself?

ZoneAlarm is setup to ask/configure on new program access, but the installer seems to run differently with 84, and ZoneAlarm doesn't produce all the same prompts for allowing access when 84 runs for the first time.  Even manually enabling MediaCenter to allow access has no effect. ZoneAlarm simply notifies on each access attempt that it is blocking mediacenter.

I uninstalled and reinstalled .84, same issue.   I reverted back to install of 20.0.80, get proper prompts for access, grant permissions, and everything works, as it did on all versions up to .84.
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JimH

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Re: Zonealarm problem
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2015, 11:18:30 am »

That's a probably a ZoneAlarm problem.  Please report it to them.
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dmac6419

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Re: Zonealarm problem
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2015, 03:48:01 pm »

Let MC connect in zone alarm
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john_kane

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Re: Zonealarm problem
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2015, 06:28:42 am »

Everything worked fine with ZA  in everything up through 20.0.80.  Breaks with the install of 20.0.84.  And certainly looks like installer acted differently this time around.

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BryanC

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Re: Zonealarm problem
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2015, 10:58:18 am »

I've never understood the allure of using 3rd-party firewalls. Most of us nowadays are behind incoming hardware nat and packet firewalls. Anything outgoing can be controlled by using trusted software or, as a last resort, the Windows firewall. Seems like more of a headache than anything.
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john_kane

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Re: Zonealarm problem
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2015, 06:33:10 am »

That opinion doesn't change the fact that something has changed in behavior here in 20.0.84, but I certainly get the sense that there is no interest in pursuing.

As to the query on the firewall, I am often surprised by what 'trusted' software is trying to do.    I like to know when programs are trying to access things (my resources, my configuration, my files, and online access). NAT doesn't help you if something is working to get out from the inside.

I can decide to trust the s/w after I observe its behavior for some weeks.




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Arindelle

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Re: Zonealarm problem
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2015, 07:38:37 am »

John -- by chance have you jumped a large number of versions?? What was the last version you did not have this "issue" with?

If you jumped from before the WDM driver to the current version, sure there is a distance it is loading a driver which needs permission to run. Zone alarm should be re-configured to allow this, in my opinion and off the top of my head.

There are no viruses or any worries there, so there is probably some kind of exclusion option that you need to set if this is the case.

If you don't "trust" JRiver, or are in some kind of ultra-secure network,  what you could do to test my "theory" is find the option to not load the WDM driver under Options=>Features=>General. You'd be missing out on a cool feature. Or you can let it run once and then disable ti as the driver is probably not updated all the time.
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glynor

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Re: Zonealarm problem
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2015, 07:56:15 pm »

That opinion doesn't change the fact that something has changed in behavior here in 20.0.84, but I certainly get the sense that there is no interest in pursuing.

Modern security software works on more than just signatures.  They use heuristics to try to "guess" if a particular application is "bad" or not.

Security companies also will not provide the details of their heuristic algorithms, so that companies like JRiver can make sure they avoid them.  In fact, these details are closely guarded intellectual property of the security software vendors.

JRiver can't do anything about it.  We can speculate on what may have caused ZoneAlarm to decide to freak out. But it is all guesses.  Every single build changes the signature of the installer, and anything could be tripping it up. They might fix it with some future "signature" update.  Most likely, their heuristics is just guessing poorly, because it is a "dumb" computer program trying to guess something very, very hard for even trained security experts to figure out.  Vendors add exceptions for applications all the time!  Microsoft Word would not run with basically any modern security suite at all, if they didn't build in special "exceptions" for Word (and so on and so forth).  But, JRiver is small, so the only way ZoneAlarm's vendors will know it is an issue is if you complain to them.

And, I'll add, that I agree that most modern security suites are huge, troublesome, piles of junk that slow down your computer and largely don't provide much more security for all the irritation they cause.  I don't use ZoneAlarm, so I can't speak in particular about it (I lost all respect for CheckPoint and stopped using their products when they did the scareware thing a few years back). But, if you want to keep using it, you'll need to figure out how to (a) add your own exception to the application to let it run, or (b) complain until they fix it.
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john_kane

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Re: Zonealarm problem
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2015, 08:06:33 am »

Arindelle,

Thanks for the suggestion; but I went from version .80 (with WDM drivers enabled.installed) to .84, so it was not a dramatic change.

Glynor,

I note your points, but its not really a Heuristics issue, meaning that ZA hasn't independently determined this is a bad actor.   I've basically got ZA running in full manual mode (prompt me for everything), and I do allow/set permissive values for MC. And its always worked.  Once you get those permissions set , things are fine until ZA detects a change to the executables (upgrade/install). ZA then prompts along with 'MC20 installer is requesting access to... etc", and provides an opportunity to reapprove.   And there is (always) a "MC20 is requesting access to internet and/or internal etc) as MC20 upgrades and attempts online access for first time. So I assume ZA is monitoring at socket/driver level for open connection attempts.

Curiously, on the 84 installer/upgrader and unlike all previous versions of MC that I have used to date, that specific permission prompt never fires when MC20(.84) attempts access. And ZA basically runs with a blocked state for MC20.  So this is why I was inquiring about any MC20 changes at this level. Actually, its the first time I've ever seen this kind of behavior from any program looking for access (I always get that prompt).

I see an .87 is available, I can give a shot. I'll have to screen shot along the way to compare and contrast the install and registration process.



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john_kane

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Re: Zonealarm problem
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2015, 06:26:05 am »

So I installed 0.87 last night, back to normal working behavior.  I installed 0.84 again, still didn't work.  Installed 0.80, worked.

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