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Author Topic: New user here. Got some questions  (Read 18022 times)

newHAPPYuser2015

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New user here. Got some questions
« on: April 02, 2015, 09:32:42 am »

Hi all

Right now i am on 30 days trial period and i've got some questions

1) Auto-size columns feature. See screenshot "auto-size"

Is it working as intended? Why does it leave free space in the columns?


2) When i play back video files with audio streams that require downmixing(i use headphones) the overall volume is noticeably lower compared to videos with stereo audio streams. Is there a way to automatically compensate for the volume reduction? (for example free Daum PotPlayer doesn't have this problem)

UPDATE: Is it possible to create a separate zone for playback of the video files that have more than 2 channels so that I can play them back at higher volume?


3)- When i open a video file it looks like that - see screenshot "video 1"
   - Then when i want to switch to full screen i  double click the video
   - Double click or press ESC to exit full screen mode and it looks like that - see screenshot "video 2"

Is there a way to go to "video 1" upon exiting full screen mode so that i switch only between "video 1" and full screen when watching videos?
or
UPDATE: Is there an option to start video playback in full screen mode instead of windowed display mode?


4) About volume leveling.
I have read the wiki http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Volume#Reference_Level_Calibration and still don't understand certain things. Before i start the calibration should i leave internal volume reference level at default 100? In the wiki it says "Adjust the volume slider until a decibel meter reads 83 dB at the listening position playing from each speaker ". Where should i see 83 db? At the top of the main window where the currently playing song info is displayed or in the DSP Studio Analyze section?


5) Smart playlists in iTunes have the option "live updating". Is there a similar feature in JRiver MC? Case in point:

In iTunes I have a playlist called "least recently played songs" (sorted by last played date and limited to 25 songs) with "live updating" checkbox ticked. So whenever a song is done playing it automatically gets substituted in said playlist by another song thus at every point next song to play is selected from the pool of 25 least recently played tracks. This way I can cycle through my entire music library.


6) beats per minute
Do you people create playlists based on BPM? How accurate would you say the measurement is? It is the first time my music got analyzed for BPM and I haven't payed much attention to the results yet, but there is one track that really caught my attention - "Funky Shit" by The Prodigy. It's listed as 62 BPM, but this value seems like it's way below what it actually is.


7) loudness
I used an ios app for calibration and as a result set my reference level to 85 (not that it's very relevant ;D). So the loudness feature kicks in only when the volume slider goes below the reference level. May I ask why it is this way? Why doesn't loudness account for the volume leveling?


8)automatic shuffle
I don't understand why when I double click a regular playlist(not smart) it doesn't shuffle? I mean  I don't select a particular song to start playback with. Is it intended behavior? Smart playlists don't have this "problem". Double click a smart playlist - it shuffles, double click a particular song in a playlist - it doesn't.


9) volume leveling vs adaptive volume
Could someone please explain to me the difference between volume leveling and adaptive volume(peak level normalize)? Right now I have adaptive volume(peak level normalize) enabled and songs seem to play back at the same volume. How does volume leveling differ from that?

10) add song as next to play
If I pressed "add(as next to play)" a particular song would indeed be played next, however that song would also remain at its original position in the playing now list, so it would end up playing twice. To prevent this from happening I can manually drag a song I want to be played next up the list. The inconvenience is that if that song is located several hundred positions down the list dragging it all the way up becomes very tiresome.

Is there a way to add a song as next to play in two clicks without duplicating it?
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mwillems

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2015, 09:56:34 am »

I can't answer all of your questions, but I can answer two

2) When i play back video files with audio streams that require downmixing(i use headphones) the overall volume is noticeably lower compared to videos with stereo audio streams. Is there a way to automatically compensate for the volume reduction? (for example free Daum PotPlayer doesn't have this problem)

Some volume reduction is required when downmixing to avoid clipping (summing multiple signals will lead to higher peaks, etc.).  Any player that doesn't reduce the volume to some extent when downmixing is either risking clipping or compressing dynamic range.  To get roughly the same volume for all content try doing "analyze audio" on all content and enabling volume leveling; that will ensure roughly similar volume levels for all content.  If that's too quiet, try experimenting with adaptive volume as well (although that will result in less even volume levels).

Quote
4) About volume leveling.
I have read the wiki http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Volume#Reference_Level_Calibration and still don't understand certain things. Before i start the calibration should i leave internal volume reference level at default 100? In the wiki it says "Adjust the volume slider until a decibel meter reads 83 dB at the listening position playing from each speaker ". Where should i see 83 db? At the top of the main window where the currently playing song info is displayed or in the DSP Studio Analyze section?

The wiki is a little ambiguous: the "decibel meter" that you should see 83dB on is the physical decibel meter you are holding in your hand or have mounted on a mic stand in your room.  The software has no way of knowing what the actual sound pressure levels are like in your room at any given volume without a dB meter or calibrated microphone; the purpose of the calibration is to set the volume level based on an external measurement.  You can usually find usable dB meters for $15 or so, and many smartphones support apps that will measure SPL, albeit very roughly.  I wouldn't try to use a phone dB meter app to set subwoofer levels as their microphones have squiffy bass sensitivity, but they should be fine for setting levels on full-range speakers.
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newHAPPYuser2015

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2015, 10:15:14 am »

Thanks for the explanation about volume leveling. Learned something new :). Since I don't have a decibel meter on my hands right now and thus can't correctly calibrate reference level it is best to leave volume leveling unchecked, right? Which leads back to my 2nd question. Is it possible to create a separate zone for playback of the files that have more than 2 channels so that I can play them back at higher volume?
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fitbrit

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2015, 12:16:08 pm »

As for your video window problem, am I right in assuming that you are playing the videos from Windows Explorer, rather than playing imported video from within MC?

If so try this:

Tools>Options> General> Behaviour:

Unselect "Jump to windowed display mode when playback is selected externally"
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newHAPPYuser2015

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2015, 12:39:15 pm »

Yeah you are right - I play videos from windows explorer. However your solution doesn't solve my "problem", it actually makes it worse :)

I actually like windowed display mode. Unchecking the option you proposed skips it altogether. That is not the behavior I want to achieve.

Let me reiterate my points:
- Video playback starts in windowed display mode. That's fine. I like it.
- Then at some point I decide to switch to full screen mode
- Later when I exit full screen mode I want JRiver MC to switch back to windowed display mode and not to the view in screenshot "video 2"
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fitbrit

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2015, 12:48:11 pm »

Ah, I see. Oops!

Is there a particular reason you like the windowed mode?
Not trying to convince you not to use it; I'm just wondering whether there is a feature of that mode you particularly like?
For instance, the controls present all the time in windowed mode are available in full-screen mode too, appearing when the mouse cursor goes to the top where the controls reside in windowed mode.
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newHAPPYuser2015

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2015, 01:20:05 pm »

Sometimes when I watch a movie or an episode of tv series I may have a need to switch to a web browser for example and I also know that I would need to switch back and forth multiple times in a relatively short period of time. So during these periods of tuning in and out of watching a video I would prefer having playback in windowed display mode to save the "hassle" of switching to and out of the full screen mode( even though the "hassle" means only a few extra clicks).

Why note settle on the mode in screenshot "video 2" instead of windowed display mode? While video size in windowed display mode is sufficient to enjoy a movie, the same can't be said about screenshot "video 2" as that miniscule display is good only for album art.

UPDATE: What I wrote above about the hassle of switching in and out of full screen mode stems from inability to switch between applications using ALT-TAB when the program I currently use for video playback is in full screen mode. In JRiver ALT-TAB switching works just fine. So the new question is:

Is there an option in JRiver MC to start video playback in full screen mode instead of windowed display mode?
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fitbrit

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2015, 01:40:42 pm »

OK. If you are using a keyboard you can easily switch from watching a full screen video to any other application by pressing alt-tab. You can switch back also.
Another option is to use a detached display: Start a video and then hit ctrl-6, or right click on the playing video and select detached display.
The detached display may be resized as you wish and can be easily switched to other apps.
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fitbrit

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2015, 02:58:14 pm »

Is there an option in JRiver MC to start video playback in full screen mode instead of windowed display mode?

See my first response again. :)
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newHAPPYuser2015

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2015, 03:07:23 pm »

See my first response again. :)

Right. I thought I tried that and it didn't work. I must have done something wrong. Anyway, thanks. This question is resolved.
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6233638

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2015, 04:57:46 pm »

1) Auto-size columns feature. See screenshot "auto-size"

Is it working as intended? Why does it leave free space in the columns?
It always leaves enough space to display the column title and sort arrow.
I had never really investigated it, but looking at your screenshot seems to make it clear: it also leaves that amount of space at the right of the content width, rather than only looking at the title width.
 
I wouldn't mind seeing that additional padding removed - or at least reduced to a figure space.
 
2) When i play back video files with audio streams that require downmixing(i use headphones) the overall volume is noticeably lower compared to videos with stereo audio streams. Is there a way to automatically compensate for the volume reduction? (for example free Daum PotPlayer doesn't have this problem)

UPDATE: Is it possible to create a separate zone for playback of the video files that have more than 2 channels so that I can play them back at higher volume?
When you downmix channels, you must reduce the volume to prevent clipping.
Anything which does not either risks clipping, and/or applies dynamic compression. Both of these would reduce sound quality.
 
It would be possible to play videos back at an even level, but only by reducing the volume level of all tracks to match the reduced level that a 7.1 track would require. So the volume reduction would increase as you have fewer channels.
 
MC actually does not mix 7.1 channels correctly, and has the potential to clip, since it makes the assumption that you're never going to have all eight channels playing 0dB content at once. Personally I'd rather it performed a proper downmix instead.
 
It's theoretically possible to have zones configured to downmix each number of channels separately to a different volume level to equalize it, but that would be quite an awkward setup in the current Zone system.
 
I've previously requested an option to have the downmix equalized across all formats (up to 7.1) but it was not of interest to the devs. I guess it's generally a bigger problem for headphone users than speakers, so they might not realize how much of an issue it can be.
Thanks for the explanation about volume leveling. Learned something new :). Since I don't have a decibel meter on my hands right now and thus can't correctly calibrate reference level it is best to leave volume leveling unchecked, right? Which leads back to my 2nd question. Is it possible to create a separate zone for playback of the files that have more than 2 channels so that I can play them back at higher volume?
Reference Level has nothing to do with Volume Leveling. That is for the Loudness feature, which applies an EQ to playback based on Equal-Loudness Contours, depending on the playback volume.
This is why you must be using MC at a calibrated volume level or else it will not work correctly at all.
 
Volume Leveling is completely unrelated and should, in my opinion, be enabled at all times.
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newHAPPYuser2015

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2015, 05:13:12 pm »

Reference Level has nothing to do with Volume Leveling. That is for the Loudness feature, which applies an EQ to playback based on Equal-Loudness Contours, depending on the playback volume.
This is why you must be using MC at a calibrated volume level or else it will not work correctly at all.

Thanks. I got it all mixed up.

Probably stupid question:
I listen to music in headphones. Should I leave them plugged in when using decibel meter? Or should I unplug them and use laptop speakers for calibration?
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Dawgincontrol

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Ref #5...
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2015, 06:20:53 pm »

You can sort your playlist by "Last Played".  Click the header until the oldest date appears and select the first song and play.  It will then play in that order and your list will update as it plays.  Never played tracks may appear at the bottom of the list separately.  If so, you can start from there on your "play" selection.

I believe that's what you're looking for.
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6233638

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2015, 06:55:52 pm »

Probably stupid question:
I listen to music in headphones. Should I leave them plugged in when using decibel meter? Or should I unplug them and use laptop speakers for calibration?
I just wouldn't enable the Loudness feature.
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mwillems

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2015, 07:32:03 pm »

Thanks. I got it all mixed up.

Probably stupid question:
I listen to music in headphones. Should I leave them plugged in when using decibel meter? Or should I unplug them and use laptop speakers for calibration?

You want to calibrate the speakers you plan to listen to, so if you plan to listen on the headphones, you need to calibrate using the headphones.  Put the dB meter where your head would be (called the "listening position" when you're talking about loudspeakers)
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6233638

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2015, 01:06:52 pm »

6) beats per minute
Do you people create playlists based on BPM? How accurate would you say the measurement is? It is the first time my music got analyzed for BPM and I haven't payed much attention to the results yet, but there is one track that really caught my attention - "Funky Shit" by The Prodigy. It's listed as 62 BPM, but this value seems like it's way below what it actually is.
I've often seen tracks where the BPM value is half of what it should be.
Aphex Twin's Syro album actually has the BPM values in the song name, and MC can be off what they should be.

7) loudness
I used an ios app for calibration and as a result set my reference level to 85 (not that it's very relevant ;D). So the loudness feature kicks in only when the volume slider goes below the reference level. May I ask why it is this way? What I am mean to ask is why doesn't loudness account for the volume leveling?
You have told MC that when volume is set to 85, your speakers (headphones?) are outputting 83dB SPL when you play the -20dB test signals.

At reference level, audio sounds as intended.
As you lower the volume EQ is applied which should, in theory, mean that it sound the same at say 60dB rather than 83dB.
To use this feature you must only use MC's internal volume control, and cannot touch the volume level on your amp once you have set it to this level.

I'd be skeptical that an iOS volume level app would be accurate enough for this.
An app would probably be fine if all you were doing was level matching speakers, but you actually need an absolute level of 83dB for this to work correctly, which generally requires a calibrated SPL meter.
 
Volume Leveling should not affect this because it brings all the albums to a fixed reference level. If anything, it should improve the results.
You would have to calibrate the reference level with Volume Leveling enabled though. (or offset it by 3dB)

9) volume leveling vs adaptive volume
Could someone please explain to me the difference between volume leveling and adaptive volume(peak level normalize)? Right now I have adaptive volume(peak level normalize) enabled and songs seem to play back at the same volume. How does volume leveling differ from that?
Peak Leveling is the old form of volume leveling that was used decades ago and is essentially the cause of the "loudness war".
Peak leveling is a simplistic tool which simply looks for the loudest sample in a track, calculates its difference from 0dB, and increases the volume by that amount. (note: MC should use -1 dBTP rather than 0 dBFS)
This plays back the track as loud as possible without clipping.

What happens is that as the dynamic range of a track varies, the playback level will also vary.
If you have a highly compressed song where the peaks are only 3dB louder than the average, it will play very loud.
If you have a highly dynamic song where the peaks are 30dB louder than the average level, it will play very quiet - especially if it is played right after that previous track.


Volume Leveling does a smart analysis to figure out the average perceived loudness of a file, regardless of dynamic range, and adjusts the average loudness of all tracks (or albums) to a fixed target of -23 LUFS.
This should result in a significantly more even level across various tracks or albums - to the point that many people feel that they can set a comfortable level for that listening session and never have to touch the volume control again.

Now if you aren't playing back material with varied dynamic range (e.g. a CD from the 80's compared to a CD released this year) then it's possible that all of the tracks have a similar dynamic range and peak normalization does an okay job making volume appear to be even. But Volume Leveling will do this regardless of what you're playing.

10) add song as next to play
If I pressed "add(as next to play)" a particular song would indeed be played next, however that song would also remain at its original position in the playing now list, so it would end up playing twice. To prevent this from happening I can manually drag a song I want to be played next up the list. The inconvenience is that if that song is located several hundred positions down the list dragging it all the way up becomes very tiresome.

Is there a way to add a song as next to play in two clicks without duplicating it?
A set of "move to..." commands when you're in a playlist or Playing Now view could be useful. Nothing like that currently exists.
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newHAPPYuser2015

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2015, 02:28:03 pm »

Many thanks for the answers.

Now if you aren't playing back material with varied dynamic range (e.g. a CD from the 80's compared to a CD released this year) then it's possible that all of the tracks have a similar dynamic range and peak normalization does an okay job making volume appear to be even. But Volume Leveling will do this regardless of what you're playing.
So why would someone still use "peak level normalize"? Doesn't volume leveling make it obsolete?


You would have to calibrate the reference level with Volume Leveling enabled though. (or offset it by 3dB)
wiki here http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Volume#Reference_Level_Calibration says volume leveling should be disabled before calibrating reference level?!
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6233638

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2015, 03:40:29 pm »

Many thanks for the answers.
So why would someone still use "peak level normalize"? Doesn't volume leveling make it obsolete?
It does make it obsolete, at least for leveling purposes.
 
But it can still be useful for other reasons. If you have a system where the amplifier is not especially powerful, Peak Level Normalization will play everything as loud as it possibly can without applying any dynamic range compression - and sometimes that is more important. (the night mode/small speakers options add dynamic range compression)
 
And peak normalization works smartly in conjunction with Volume Leveling inside MC.
If you have a fixed playlist (and it is only useful then) Volume Leveling will level all tracks in that list to the -23LUFS average loudness. Then peak normalization will look at the loudest track in the playlist, and maximize the volume level of that playlist by a fixed amount.
 
This way you get the benefits of volume leveling inside that playlist, but it also plays as loud as it can.
How this differs from Volume Leveling on its own, is that VL on its own will maintain a fixed average of -23 LUFS regardless of what is being played.
When combined with peak normalization, the average level of a playlist will change depending on the tracks within it.
 
If you want the most even playback levels, and you don't have problems playing things loud enough, you should only use Volume Leveling.


wiki here http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Volume#Reference_Level_Calibration says volume leveling should be disabled before calibrating reference level?!
It has been a long time since I looked into this. Previously, Volume Leveling would simply apply a 10dB reduction in volume to the test tones, since they were treated as non-analyzed files.
I thought that had been fixed now, but I haven't checked.
If you calibrated without Volume Leveling, then your system outputs 83dB with a -20dBFS signal.
The Volume Leveling target is -23LUFS, so you need to offset your calibration by 3dB (6 steps) if you are using it.
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glynor

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2015, 08:29:36 am »

I split out the discussion of #5 (Live Updating Smartlists) into this thread:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=96712.0
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newHAPPYuser2015

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2015, 05:53:01 am »

I am new not only to JRiver MC itself but to a lot of terminology as well. From this thread http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=82023.100 I learned a new word ;D - "headroom".


If you add an expression column and use this code, it will tell you how much headroom is required for your tracks:
Code: ( Headroom ) [Select]
Delimit(if(isempty([Peak Level (R128)]),,formatnumber(math(removecharacters(left([Peak Level (R128)],5),/ /+,0)+RemoveCharacters([Volume Level (R128)],/ LU,0)+1),1)),/ dB,)

I am not entirely sure I understand what it means so I thought I'd better ask. So what does it mean? What values are good/not so good?
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Arindelle

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2015, 07:38:40 am »

I am new not only to JRiver MC itself but to a lot of terminology as well. From this thread http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=82023.100 I learned a new word ;D - "headroom".

hmm can't get the expression to show anything other than 0db fro over 100K tracks (expression column in a smartlist does this have to be in a view?)

thanks
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6233638

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2015, 07:53:19 am »

I am new not only to JRiver MC itself but to a lot of terminology as well. From this thread http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=82023.100 I learned a new word ;D - "headroom".

I am not entirely sure I understand what it means so I thought I'd better ask. So what does it mean? What values are good/not so good?
Negative values are good (they have enough headroom) while positive values are bad. (they require more)

Volume Leveling targets an average loudness of -23 LUFS. (1 LU = 1 dB)
If a track is very dynamic, the difference between the average loudness and the peak level may be greater than 23dB.

When that happens, Media Center has to reduce the volume level further to prevent clipping (distortion) from occurring.
This prevents the distortion, but means that specific track will play quieter than everything else.
 
Now for music, this is not a big issue. In my library less than 1% of the tracks are affected by this, and even fewer have a requirement for more than 3dB of additional headroom.
But if my normal playback level has the volume control set to -12dB for example, this should allow volume leveling to work perfectly across all of these tracks - because it should effectively mean that the target is now -35 LUFS rather than -23 LUFS.

However due to the order that volume leveling and volume control operate, the 12dB reduction occurs after leveling has already determined that a track needs to be played quieter than the rest, rather than using the additional 12dB of headroom.


While it does not have much of a practical concern for music, it is a much bigger issue with movies.
Rather than only 1% of my music library being affected by this, 60% of my movie library is.
This is because the target for movies is intended to be -31 LUFS (if I recall correctly) rather than -23 LUFS.
Using a target of -31 LUFS for movies, that number drops from 60% to <1%.
 
But I would prefer that the target be fluid, instead of operating at a fixed level.
Rather than only using -23 LUFS for music and -31 LUFS for video, personally I would prefer to use -31 LUFS for both so that everything coming out of MC plays at the same level.
And I would also prefer that reducing the internal volume level provided additional headroom so that the files in that remaining 1% can be fully leveled if I am listening below 100% volume.
 
And while it is not something I personally want, some people have requested that the level be adjustable.
Though the R128 spec calls for -23 LUFS for music and -31 LUFS for video without giving users control, R128 is a broadcast standard.
When implemented in a media player like MC, it does not seem unreasonable to let users specify a custom target level - though I would include a warning that setting it to a higher level than -23 LUFS may result in uneven leveling. (theoretically, you could even tell the user when this has occurred, or give them a count of how many tracks would be affected)
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newHAPPYuser2015

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2015, 01:07:40 pm »

Negative values are good (they have enough headroom) while positive values are bad. (they require more)
All of my songs have 0 dB in the headroom column. Is it typical for songs to have 0 dB in headroom?
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Arindelle

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2015, 02:16:34 pm »

All of my songs have 0 dB in the headroom column. Is it typical for songs to have 0 dB in headroom?
mine too ... no I think something is outdated in the expression 623?  version 19 to 20 maybe?
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6233638

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2015, 02:52:44 pm »

Worked fine for me. Are your files analyzed?
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newHAPPYuser2015

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2015, 03:01:42 pm »

Mine are analyzed
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Arindelle

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2015, 03:21:04 pm »

mine too all are 0db
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6233638

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2015, 04:10:00 pm »

I'll look over it again some time over the next day or two because that was hastily written a while ago, but it should just work if you copy and paste all of that code into an expression column.
Regardless, I would expect only 1% or so of music files to be affected - they picked -23 LUFS for a good reason.
But MC is using the wrong target for videos, which is why that number is more like 60% for my video library.
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Arindelle

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2015, 02:56:35 am »

if you have time to recheck it that would be great I want to use this for something else ... think it has something to do with mismatched parenthesis around remove characters (left ? but its killing me, tried a lot of variations ... i think I'm confused about the basic math over which fields otherwise I'd be able to fix it myself .. thanks in advance  :)
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6233638

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2015, 04:01:23 am »

Wrote it again from scratch, so hopefully this will work:
 
Code: (Headroom (new)) [Select]
Delimit(FormatNumber(Math(1+RemoveCharacters(ListItem([Peak Level (R128), 0], 0), / dBTP/+, 0)+[Volume Level (R128), 0]), 1), / dB,)
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newHAPPYuser2015

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2015, 04:40:05 am »

No significant changes for me, unfortunately. The only difference is that it now shows "0 dB..." instead of "0 dB" :)
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newHAPPYuser2015

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2015, 04:54:39 am »

Try this:

Code: (Headroom (3)) [Select]
If(IsEmpty([Peak Level (R128),0]), File Missing Peak Level Data, If(IsEmpty([Volume Level (R128),0]), File Missing Volume Level Data, Delimit(FormatNumber(Math(1+RemoveCharacters(ListItem([Peak Level (R128), 0], 0), / dBTP/+, 0)+[Volume Level (R128), 0]), 1), / dB,)))

No difference. Am I supposed to perform any additional manipulations for headroom formula to work like reanalyzing files or restarting JMC?
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Arindelle

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2015, 04:58:40 am »

neither seems to work



thought it had something to do with dbTP or a variable you had defined but the new one doesn't have that :(

 .. I'm thinking it might have something to do with my OS being in French using a comma instead of a period for a decimal point. Or it is in the "beautifying" part of the expression

what is the basic math using which fields? maybe I can test that by doing it a different way
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Arindelle

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2015, 05:00:00 am »

aiee this is getting to me .. like that crossword puzzle you just can't finish  ;D
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6233638

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2015, 05:01:06 am »

.. I'm thinking it might have something to do with my OS being in French using a comma instead of a period for a decimal point. Or it is in the "beautifying" part of the expression
You could be onto something there.
The ",0" is supposed to remove formatting from the field.

E.g. [Volume Level (R128)] returns: -12.9 LU
While [Volume Level (R128), 0] should return: -12.90625

what is the basic math using which fields? maybe I can test that by doing it a different way
All the code does is add together the R128 Peak Level value and R128 Volume Level, plus 1.
It's just a little awkward due to the formatting used for Peak Level (R128) being a list that returns a value with text rather than a plain number.
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newHAPPYuser2015

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2015, 05:05:30 am »

My system also uses comma as decimal symbol
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Arindelle

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2015, 05:08:10 am »

My system also uses comma as decimal symbol
ah HA! bug :P  maybe changin the delimiter or reducing the decimals? Don't want to change the option in Windows to check, it wills crew up some things for me
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Arindelle

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2015, 05:10:34 am »

You could be onto something there.
The ",0" is supposed to remove formatting from the field.

E.g. [Volume Level (R128)] returns: -12.9 LU
yep, but not -12 , 9 LU
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6233638

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2015, 05:12:03 am »

ah HA! bug :P  maybe changin the delimiter or reducing the decimals? Don't want to change the option in Windows to check, it wills crew up some things for me
I would check here by switching my system over, but currently have several hours of downloads queued in MC and it doesn't offer a resume function.
It does look like like we have found the cause, though I'm not sure exactly where it is breaking.

yep, but not -12 , 9 LU
If I had to guess, it's not returning the correct decimal separator on your system, which breaks the Math() command when adding the values together.
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Arindelle

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2015, 05:17:33 am »

no problem, I have to stop playing and pretend to work anyway :D
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newHAPPYuser2015

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2015, 05:21:14 am »

I changed "," to "." in the windows control panel and your headroom expression still returned 0 dB for all songs. However I noticed that while Dynamic Range (r128) and Volume Level (r128) switched to using dot as a decimal symbol, Peak Level (r128) was still using comma. So maybe there is some setting we can change in JMC instead of windows?
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Arindelle

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2015, 05:38:20 am »

I changed "," to "." in the windows control panel and your headroom expression still returned 0 dB for all songs. However I noticed that while Dynamic Range (r128) and Volume Level (r128) switched to using dot as a decimal symbol, Peak Level (r128) was still using comma. So maybe there is some setting we can change in JMC instead of windows?
no just tried too. You'd probably have to resinstall the JRiver or clean up the registry which I don't think you should do. This expression is not that important .. but if it is breaking the math(...) function, going to affect lots of euro power users ... I never use it so never noticed it.

I'll bring it up to the devs just to see as I'm curious
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newHAPPYuser2015

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2015, 07:18:24 am »

When adding "artist does not contain" rule in a smartlist is it possible to string multiple entries together in one rule and not having to create a separate rule for each artist if for no other reason than to keep it concise?
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glynor

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2015, 06:43:42 pm »

Yep.  Semicolon delimited, I think.  The drop-downs let you multi-select from Artists that match previous filters added.
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newHAPPYuser2015

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2015, 05:08:39 am »

Doesn't work for me for some reason. If I use semicolon nothing gets excluded from a smartlist.
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newHAPPYuser2015

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2015, 07:54:29 am »

Let's say
a) I have a smartlist that includes songs by many different artists
b) in this smartlist there are a lot of songs by certain few artists while other artists featured in this playlist have 1-2 songs

Is it possible to set a limit on the number of songs per artist in a smartlist to whatever number (let's say 3) with songs being selected on the least recently played basis? ::) Probably not? :)
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Arindelle

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2015, 08:23:29 am »

Yep.  Semicolon delimited, I think.  The drop-downs let you multi-select from Artists that match previous filters added.
euh, I'm nervous to say this to Glynor :D euh not really ....  using the semi-colon in the wizard doesn't work the same way as in some expressions. Using the semi-colon and choosing "does not contain" gives this

Code: [Select]
-[Artist]="Black Keys; Black Flag; Black Francis" which will only filter on recording where all three artists are associated on the tracks - at least I think so ... don't hurt me plz  :o

Doesn't work for me for some reason. If I use semicolon nothing gets excluded from a smartlist.
so practically speaking you can't do this. You can of course use the wizard to filter using the "is not any option" -- which are for exact matches (TIP: Click on the import/export button you can see the code that the wizard is writing for you) which gives this:
Code: [Select]
-[Artist]=[Black Flag],[Black Francis],[The Black Keys] (the [...] are exact matches the "..." contain the string but could have more characters

If you have a really long expression with lets say 30 artists and you only want to do this once you can set it up using the "is not any" (or does not equal for the those who are not intellectually challenged :p )go into the import/export box and through a text editor replace all the []'s with parentheses (except the field names). like so
Code: [Select]
-[Artist]="Black Keys", "Black Flag", "Black Francis"But for on the fly lists I don't see the point. Other than things like THE Black keys where "the" is in the band name to be included compared to Black Flag where it isn't .. i don't really see this as something thats going to be of use too much -- not to mention you have to type all the names out.
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Arindelle

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2015, 08:28:17 am »

Let's say
a) I have a smartlist that includes songs by many different artists
b) in this smartlist there are a lot of songs by certain few artists while other artists featured in this playlist have 1-2 songs

Is it possible to set a limit on a number of songs per artist in a smartlist to whatever number (let's say 3) with songs being selected on least recently played basis? ::) Probably not? :)
Yes its possible.

PS @NewMC -- this is turning into a private lesson thread ... could you start new threads with the topic being more precise. That way other could benefit for the responses? Thanks :)
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glynor

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2015, 04:59:30 pm »

I have a ton of these.  There is definitely a way to do it, I was just wrong about semicolons (because I wasn't at my computer and couldn't look).

Here's an example I just made as a demo:

Code: [Select]
[Media Type]=[Audio] [Media Sub Type]=[Music] [Genre]=[Alternative],[Americana],[Indie],[Progressive],[Psychedelic Rock] -[Artist]=[Adams, Ryan],[The Album Leaf],[Battles],[The Beatles],[The Black Keys],[Cohen, Leonard],[Cowboy Junkies]
Whenever you're searching for an exact match, rather than a substring match, you enclose the search text in brackets.  They're comma separated.

But, it is almost always easiest to edit these in the Wizard by checking the little checkboxes.

EDIT: Now that I read, Arindelle already covered it.  If you enclose it in quotes, it is an exact string match.
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glynor

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Re: New user here. Got some questions
« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2015, 05:17:04 pm »

DOH!  And I just read better and now understand better.

No, you cannot combine them if you want to use "Does Not Contain" (substring search).  You have to have separate entries in this case.  But, assuming your tags aren't a mess, then you probably should use "Is Not Any" instead.

That's why I was confused.  I never use the substring search for tasks like this because having files tagged as both:

The Beatles
and just
Beatles

(as an example) Is strictly not allowed in my Library.
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