Topic: Commercial Skipping (Read 24114 times)

imeric · « **on:** April 07, 2015, 02:26:36 pm »

Hi,

I just thought I would revive this as I saw some very old posts on this. Actually from Rammingspeed as I thought he worded it exactly as I think it should be like.:

"More features to support comskip during playback. Comskip is great but not perfect. The ability to jump back to the skip "start" point for premature skips and the ability to jump to the next skip "end" point for late "start" points. Displaying the skip areas in the playback progress bar would also help. "

It would be nice to have comskip working within JRiver maybe with the Media Server...

Matt · « **Reply #1 on:** April 07, 2015, 05:13:27 pm »

Could you post a link to the technical details about Comskip?

Thanks.

mojave · « **Reply #2 on:** April 07, 2015, 05:23:12 pm »

Here are some guides to using comskip:

[How-to] Hands-free commercial skipping for JRiver & Windows Media Center

How To For Commercial Skipping of AVC/h.264 Video From HDPVR & Others

Here is a request for integration with comskip from almost 10 years ago. It is probably on "the list" somewhere.

Commercial skipping from MC Playback

Castius · « **Reply #3 on:** April 07, 2015, 05:29:52 pm »

I'd like to see the edl info visible in the playback par.
As well as bookmarks/progress

Matt · « **Reply #4 on:** April 07, 2015, 06:24:08 pm »

I've never used it, but Jim says we already support comskip.

JimH · « **Reply #5 on:** April 07, 2015, 06:42:40 pm »

I may be wrong. nwboater brought it up a long time ago and I thought we did it. Try a search for his posts and "comskip". JustinChase did a How To on it.

mojave · « **Reply #6 on:** April 07, 2015, 07:01:42 pm »

Quote from: JimH on April 07, 2015, 06:42:40 pm

I may be wrong. nwboater brought it up a long time ago and I thought we did it. Try a search for his posts and "comskip". JustinChase did a How To on it.

I already linked to both of those threads in this thread.

rammingspeed · « **Reply #7 on:** April 07, 2015, 07:54:29 pm »

MC does supports comskip. I was looking for a replacement for my previous PVR software and would not have bought MC if it wasn't supported. As the OP quoted from my original post, it would be nice to see a few additional features. These are helpful because while comskip does a good job, it is not always 100% accurate. The added features will allow the user to skip ahead or back to compensate for comskip misses.

- In the playback progress bar, highlight in a different color, the section of the video that the EDL files indicates will be skipped. This is just a visual clue for the end user.
- Currently the Right arrow key will advance to the end of the nearby skip point. Very handy if comskip did not identify the start point early enough. An additional similar feature would be to have the Left Arrow jump to the the most recent skip start point. This is useful if comskip identified the skip point to early and I missed some of the program.

I know I'm repeating myself, but I have read recently in other threads that bumping a proposed idea just may help. One can always hope...

Castius · « **Reply #8 on:** April 07, 2015, 08:40:50 pm »

To reiterate what rammingspeed has said.

As someone who has recently set up comskip to monitor my tv recordings.
JMC is reading the EDL's. However comskip can't and won't ever be perfect.
So it would nice to have some visibility on the EDL info. So we can better deal with it's results.

Thanks

crawfofd · « **Reply #9 on:** April 08, 2015, 07:31:47 pm »

I would also like to show my support for comskip. I would also suggest putting in the tools to do manual skipping with some sort of visual aid to know where the commercials are.

Yaobing · « **Reply #10 on:** April 08, 2015, 08:09:22 pm »

In an upcoming new build:

NEW: When playing video with ComSkip, Next button will advance to the next commercial end point. Previous button will return to the nearest previous commercial start point. Not tested. Please test and report problems.

Matt · « **Reply #11 on:** April 08, 2015, 08:44:30 pm »

Quote from: Yaobing on April 08, 2015, 08:09:22 pm

In an upcoming new build:

NEW: When playing video with ComSkip, Next button will advance to the next commercial end point. Previous button will return to the nearest previous commercial start point. Not tested. Please test and report problems.

Maybe you already did this, but if previous is hit when it's really close to a point it should jump to the previous point (instead of back to the same point it might have just jumped to).

Castius · « **Reply #12 on:** April 09, 2015, 12:01:24 am »

In a pervious thread. I think that back would not take you to the edl in point. But rather 10 sec.
In case the edl was wrong.

Yaobing · « **Reply #13 on:** April 09, 2015, 09:19:43 am »

Quote from: Matt on April 08, 2015, 08:44:30 pm

Maybe you already did this, but if previous is hit when it's really close to a point it should jump to the previous point (instead of back to the same point it might have just jumped to).

I did not do it yesterday. But it is done now.

rammingspeed · « **Reply #14 on:** April 11, 2015, 09:47:48 am »

Quote from: Yaobing on April 08, 2015, 08:09:22 pm

In an upcoming new build:

NEW: When playing video with ComSkip, Next button will advance to the next commercial end point. Previous button will return to the nearest previous commercial start point. Not tested. Please test and report problems.

Yaobing,
I am working on testing this. Thanks for adding it, and I'll make sure to provide feedback. I just need to re-map my remote for the "Next" and "Previous" commands.

And not to sound ungrateful for this change, but adding the color highlighting to the playback progress bar would add to the usability of this feature and commercial skipping in general.

crawfofd · « **Reply #15 on:** April 28, 2015, 04:11:01 pm »

Yaobing, did some test on the comskip with the next/prev buttons. It seems that when you select either one it does not always go back to the previous or next skip mark. It is hard to tell for sure where it goes because there are no indicatators where the skips should be. The only way I could verify that it was not working was by the time when it does the move.
It sure would be nice to be able to see it in a timeline and to also be able to do a manual skip of the commercials.

Yaobing · « **Reply #16 on:** April 28, 2015, 04:31:09 pm »

Adding color indicator is much harder change to make and therefore will not be coming soon. Sorry.

crawfofd · « **Reply #17 on:** April 28, 2015, 10:51:35 pm »

I
Yaobing, thanks for yor reply.

crawfofd · « **Reply #18 on:** April 29, 2015, 06:17:30 am »

Yaobing, you said that you would not be able to provide the graphic representation of the skip marks, but how about being able to manually skip commercials. Atleast we would be able to control what we skip a little better and would be able to see where the commercials are.

JimH · « **Reply #19 on:** April 29, 2015, 09:15:22 am »

You can use the right arrow on a keyboard or remote to skip forward 30 seconds.

tzr916 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 10, 2015, 10:31:21 pm »

Quote from: crawfofd on April 28, 2015, 04:11:01 pm

...It sure would be nice to be able to see it in a timeline and to also be able to do a manual skip of the commercials.

Still waiting for commercial markers in timeline

Is there any possible way to do MANUAL skip? In other words, DISABLE the auto skipping?

imeric · « **Reply #21 on:** December 14, 2015, 07:16:59 am »

Same here!! Definitely more useful than a blinking action window

I agree the option to disable it would be very usefull. but if you see it in the timeline it's not really necessary (based on my experience with Sage)

thx

Yaobing · « **Reply #22 on:** December 14, 2015, 09:38:53 am »

Quote from: tzr916 on December 10, 2015, 10:31:21 pm

Still waiting for commercial markers in timeline

Is there any possible way to do MANUAL skip? In other words, DISABLE the auto skipping?

If you see auto skipping doing something wrong, just use left arrow to jump back.

tzr916 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 14, 2015, 09:59:18 am »

Quote from: Yaobing on December 14, 2015, 09:38:53 am

If you see auto skipping doing something wrong, just use left arrow to jump back.

Guess I'm spoiled by WMC and Zoom Player which both have timeline markers and manual skipping. Looks like several others here are also. Please, we are all hoping you will realize that adding these very important features will aid in your push to attract more WMC Tv users. Thanks

tzr916 · « **Reply #24 on:** December 14, 2015, 11:16:18 am »

Quote from: Yaobing on December 14, 2015, 09:38:53 am

If you see auto skipping doing something wrong, just use left arrow to jump back.

The problem with this option:
Watching a tv show.
MC suddenly skips forward say 3 minutes to the end of the commercial block.
I press left arrow and MC only goes back 30 seconds, which is still commercials.

In this example, I actually need to go back 3 minutes plus however much of the show I missed because it did the jump too early. So I would actually need to press left arrow six or more times to get back there. But since I don't actually know how far it skipped, I don't know how many times I need to press left arrow. That means each press of the left arrow, I have to determine if I am watching part of a commercial or part of the show. See how much of a PIB this is?

If you cannot disable auto skip and display the markers in the timeline, maybe provide a button/key to easily jump back to each skip marker, from there we can use manual seek/jump to find the correct place in the show.

Yaobing · « **Reply #25 on:** December 14, 2015, 11:30:00 am »

I am not user ComSkip myself, so what I am saying is from memory. I remember having added code to jump back right at the start of commercial, and right arrow would jump to the end of the commercial. In other words, it is not simply 30 seconds/10 seconds.

That said, when I finish up some of my more urgent tasks, I will look into the feasibility of marking out commercials on the time line.

Castius · « **Reply #26 on:** December 15, 2015, 12:05:28 am »

WooHoo!!

crawfofd · « **Reply #27 on:** December 15, 2015, 05:17:19 am »

Yaobing, That would be great if you could put the markers in the timeline. Thanks for all your work. The program is getting better all the time. There are only a couple more things I need before I completely convert from SageTV to JRiver Media Center, markers is one of them.

imeric · « **Reply #28 on:** December 16, 2015, 09:54:20 am »

Crawfofd you sound like me!!! I could have written the exact same thing

!!
Thx Yaobbing this is great news!!! (Any chance you could fix my channel issue also?

tzr916 · « **Reply #29 on:** December 21, 2015, 09:27:16 am »

Quote from: Yaobing on December 14, 2015, 11:30:00 am

I am not user ComSkip myself, so what I am saying is from memory. I remember having added code to jump back right at the start of commercial, and right arrow would jump to the end of the commercial. In other words, it is not simply 30 seconds/10 seconds.

That said, when I finish up some of my more urgent tasks, I will look into the feasibility of marking out commercials on the time line.

Ah, I couldn't see this happening because JRiver uses the OPPOSITE remote control functions/buttons than WMC (and ZoomPlayer) for Skip Back/Forward vs Arrow L/R during video playback. Putting aside commercial skipping for a minute to explain (when no edl file exists):
- In WMC the Skip Back/Forward buttons actually skip the video forward and back 30 seconds, but in JRriver the skip back button takes the show to the beginning of the timeline and the skip forward button does nothing at all.
- In WMC the Arrow L/R brings up an navigate-able information pop up, but in JRiver these buttons skip back X seconds and forward X seconds.

So these buttons are basically REVERSED! Has no one coming from WMC ever noticed this??? I'm afraid to change these buttons (assign them back to what they should be), because doing so may affect menu navigation in Theater View!

As far as the way the Arrow L/R currently works for commercial skipping in JRiver: It apparently does not "stop" at EVERY marker. It currently only takes you to the commercial "out" marker. If you are working on this... PLEASE make the Arrow buttons stop at EVERY marker- commercial "in" and commercial "out", not just commercial "out", as it seems to be right now.

This is the ONLY thing currently keeping me from making the final switch from WMC to JRiver (and paying for a license).

EDIT
So in a perfect model when a commercial file exists, markers in the timeline are VERY important and the remote buttons should work as follows:
Down Arrow = toggle AUTO commercial skipping On/Off
Left Arrow = jump back to previous commercial marker (in OR out marker )
Right Arrow = jump forward to next commercial marker (in OR out marker)
Skip back button = skip back X seconds in the video (right now does not work at all)
Ship forward button = skip forward X seconds in the video (right now does not work at all)

tzr916 · « **Reply #30 on:** February 05, 2016, 09:52:36 am »

Good to see a few more users voicing the need to improve MC commercial skipping with timeline markers!

Please do not ignore the importance of the option to do MANUAL skipping with the edl markers. The option to have MANUAL commercial skipping with the edl markers is the biggest request on my list.

Some new information on my post regarding Skip back/forward button - they actually do work. The reason they did not work at the time was that I was using a non-MCE generic remote. Now that I have a true MCE remote, the skip buttons are working. Not worried that the buttons are reversed compared to WMC, I've already re-trained my brain

imeric · « **Reply #31 on:** February 05, 2016, 12:33:25 pm »

In order of priority for me:
1.

Quote from: tzr916 on December 21, 2015, 09:27:16 am

Left Arrow = jump back to previous commercial marker (in OR out marker )
Right Arrow = jump forward to next commercial marker (in OR out marker)

When EDL file is present I like tzr916's recommendation as per above.
If no EDL the normal left/right arrow behaviour to skip 30 secs and back 10 seconds...BTW is this customisable the 10 and 30 seconds?
If the comskip is not accurate you always have the REW and FWD arrows to tweak.

2. And those markers visible in the progress bar eventually of course

3. An option to turn comskipping on or off in the file info OSD (where we can activate/deactivate srt etc..As I want to keep what the up and down arrows do to toggle through the OSD options...)

Good ideas tzr916!

tzr916 · « **Reply #32 on:** February 05, 2016, 02:24:17 pm »

We don't really need to change the FUNCTIONS of any of the remote buttons (except possibly to give us an AUTO/MANUAL toggle like down ARROW). If you use a "real" MCE remote then these already seems to work:
-The Skip BACK/FWD remote buttons perform the jump to previous/next commercial "out" marker.
-The Left/Right ARROW (navigation) buttons perform the "timed" jump.

But please do tweak the BEHAVIOR of the Skip BACK/FWD functions so that they jump to BOTH the "in" and the "out" markers.

tzr916 · « **Reply #33 on:** February 27, 2016, 09:28:47 pm »

Blessing in disguise: I grew tired of waiting, so I have been fine tuning comskip and have improved commercial cut points tremendously. I almost never have to touch the remote now. The requested JR commercial skip feature changes are no longer at the top of my list, but would still be a very nice addition.

imeric · « **Reply #34 on:** February 27, 2016, 10:51:19 pm »

And I'm just wondering why this hasn't been implemented yet...
Comskip is awesome but will never be perfect no matter how hard you tweak it.

astromo · « **Reply #35 on:** February 29, 2016, 02:52:57 am »

My view is that this one isn't a big deal (at least for me, anyway).

My dabblings with comskip in the past stack up with the comments about tweaking. I could never get an optimum. I suspect a big part of this is the variation between broadcasters here in Oz. There are standards for the break between a show and an ad but there's no enforcement from what I can tell.

For low value, non-retain tv, the standard at my place is fast forward with the mouse scroll wheel.

For high value, retain tv, the standard is to edit out the ads using separate editing software. The software I use does an ad-scan that is reviewed after it has run, where the correct cuts are selected.

Castius · « **Reply #36 on:** February 29, 2016, 01:56:41 pm »

I set up "send to" inside JMC to send the .txt to comskip. It worked really well.
Even though the comskip editor is not user friendly. So if someone had a better simple edl editor i'm all ears.

blgentry · « **Reply #37 on:** February 29, 2016, 03:48:46 pm »

This all strikes me as an insane amount of discussion over something entirely trivial. Back when Tivo first came out, there was no skip; just fast forward. Once we figured out how to do a 30 second skip with a single button press, commercials went away with just a few button presses.

Trying to make this fully automatic seems difficult. Isn't it less effort overall to just hit the 30 second skip button a few times?

Brian.

tzr916 · « **Reply #38 on:** February 29, 2016, 04:31:25 pm »

Once you go comskip you never go back. No it is not insane. It has been a way of life at our house for the past 2.5 years with WMC. Setup was not easy but would certainly not consider it difficult. What is difficult is finding a WMC replacement that doesn't hang/crash more than twice a week causing recordings to be split into pieces and missing several minutes of those shows while I restart the program.

Castius · « **Reply #39 on:** February 29, 2016, 04:44:59 pm »

Can't disagree completely blgentry.
However comskip is pretty good. And for the times i do want to use it. There are some simple changes that would be great.

Having JMC be able to show data on the time timeline. Seems like a feature that is useful outside of comskip.
Like seeing bookmarks, or particles. So i don't think anyone is wasting anyone's time with this discussion.

imeric · « **Reply #40 on:** March 02, 2016, 08:45:12 am »

Brian Have you used Comskip with any other softwares besides MC?

It's just like anything else... Once you've used it before and you know what it can do for you, you just want it and in my case I want it Badly....

So it maybe trivial to you but for others, it's a necessity...Especially if you want former WMC or Sage users who had some sort of Comskip visibility in the software to migrate from WMC to MC... So bang for the buck to gain here...A lot more than some other features being added...

I'm seeing a lot of new features being added to MC that I think are wasted time but I can understand why some others may need it...

JimH · « **Reply #41 on:** March 02, 2016, 08:49:04 am »

MC supports comskip. Try a search.

blgentry · « **Reply #42 on:** March 02, 2016, 08:54:43 am »

Quote from: imeric on March 02, 2016, 08:45:12 am

Brian Have you used Comskip with any other softwares besides MC?

No, I haven't used comskip on ANY platform. To be honest, I don't use MC for TV recording either.

I just posted because this seems like a lot of talk about something that seems fairly trivial. Just my opinion. Obviously you and others disagree.

Quote

So it maybe trivial to you but for others, it's a necessity...

You can I have different ideas of what the word "necessity" means I think.

Brian.

imeric · « **Reply #43 on:** March 02, 2016, 12:55:49 pm »

Quote from: blgentry on March 02, 2016, 08:54:43 am

You can I have different ideas of what the word "necessity" means I think.

Yeah, necessity might be a bit strong... Let's say a VERY VERY VERY Nice feature to have when watching TV

.

imeric · « **Reply #44 on:** March 02, 2016, 12:59:17 pm »

Quote from: JimH on March 02, 2016, 08:49:04 am

MC supports comskip. Try a search.

We know it supports it. What we want is MC to display the skip areas in the playback progress bar like other competing softwares do.

imeric · « **Reply #45 on:** March 02, 2016, 03:25:53 pm »

Quote from: Yaobing on April 28, 2015, 04:31:09 pm

Adding color indicator is much harder change to make and therefore will not be coming soon. Sorry.

Yaobing would it be easier to put timelines/markers instead? That would be as good as changing colors...

Yaobing · « **Reply #46 on:** March 02, 2016, 03:36:59 pm »

Can you post a screenshot of how it is shown in another media player (you can crop the image so only the relevant part is shown)?

tzr916 · « **Reply #47 on:** March 02, 2016, 04:00:30 pm »

Quote from: Yaobing on March 02, 2016, 03:36:59 pm

Can you post a screenshot of how it is shown in another media player (you can crop the image so only the relevant part is shown)?

Zoom Player, the markers are the purple lines in the timeline:

Castius · « **Reply #48 on:** March 02, 2016, 11:38:13 pm »

I'm not subjecting this what it should look like. Just looking for examples.

http://wiki.team-mediaportal.com/1_MEDIAPORTAL_1/14_Using_MediaPortal/3_TV/3_Record_TV/4_Watch_Recorded_TV/3_Skipping_Ads

imeric · « **Reply #49 on:** March 03, 2016, 08:12:39 am »

How about something like this? Ideally a different colour or a lighter green between markers would be nice but just the markers alone would go a long way!!

Thanks for considering!!!

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Author Topic: Commercial Skipping (Read 24114 times)