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[mike.s]

My view goal:
Sort Composer (grouping=1) --> Composer --> Work

I have extensive use of these sort fields and I'd like them to be used in the creation of a view schema for Composer of classical music, they are populated in the files (Yate) but they are not showing in the "Library Field" list. What do I need to do to get them to show and/or use them?

[mike.s]

FYI: Here's what I've tried (and failed):
0. Check via hex editor to see what the actual mapping is... in the my case, all show "soco"
1. Create library fields to see if they map:
   - TSOC, soco, COMPOSERSORT, composersort (from http://picard.musicbrainz.org/docs/mappings/ list of possibles)
2. Update Library (from tags) ... "Processed 1 files (0 failures)"
3. Check to see if any of these are filled by pulling up the "Tag" view (showing all fields) from the Action Window
4. Sigh in frustration to see none are filled

Am I missing something in the create field process options? I've checked the "Save in file tags" box and accepted the defaults on all else.

[JimH]

Would it help to add a custom tag?  If you have tags that are non-standard and MC doesn't show them, you can add them.  The name must be identical, including case.

[mike.s]

Would it help to add a custom tag?  If you have tags that are non-standard and MC doesn't show them, you can add them.  The name must be identical, including case.

I tried adding the tag as a custom tag with the exact same name (including case), but it neither sees existing externally tagged data, nor when it writes to files does the external system see it as tagged as such.

Am I really the first person on a mac to use the sorting fields from iTunes tagged music? (OK, a bit rhetorical as my searches have found others who have been through this, but the details are lacking.)

Any other hints or tips to diagnose? Even getting down to the hex editor hasn’t really helped me out here.

[blgentry]

Silly question:  In the Tag pane, have you chosen "Show All Tags" ?

Brian.

[mike.s]

Silly question:  In the Tag pane, have you chosen "Show All Tags" ?

Yes, I've also tried using an expression in a smart playlist using the Tag() function to decrease turnaround time in experiments and in the process have come to create an expression based library field off this expression:

regex(  [Composer], /#\s(\w+)$#/, -1, 1)[R1], Left([Composer], Math(Length([Composer])-Length([R1])))

This comes close to what I've already populated much of the data with, but it only works when the sort word is clearly and appropriately the last word in the composer name.

[mike.s]

One thing that would be helpful is to get from a MC perspective, what has been called a "Tag Dump":

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=51094.msg348787#msg348787

Is this still possible? If so, what is the process to get this done in the current latests stable MC 20 mac?

If it is no longer possible in MC, is there a tool on the mac (command line preferred) that will do the same?

[mike.s]

Yet another development in my search for sanity (long-suffering though I may be): it seems that the "Sort" fields coming from iTunes are actually a "child field" with the Composer and Album artist being related to the parent field according to this reference:

http://age.hobba.nl/audio/tag_frame_reference.html#classification

A hex editor on a file with these fields does not show them as a compound filed to be ripped apart on read, but instead it looks as though they will need to be understood as parent/child relationships (with a 1-to-1 relationship). Can MC 20 understand or write these kinds of fields?

[mike.s]

bump

[blgentry]

"Tag Dump" as it's being called is definitely available in MC20 for Mac.  Just pull up the tagging pane.  Look at the title of the song in the pane at the very top.  Mine shows up as the format, duration, etc, (like FLAC - 6:20 - 40.3 MB).  Click on that and a new pane will appear with the full tag information from the file.

Maybe that will help you track down the tag fields you are looking for.  Then you can add them to the library fields and use them.

Good luck sir.

Brian.

[mike.s]

"Tag Dump" as it's being called is definitely available in MC20 for Mac.  Just pull up the tagging pane.  Look at the title of the song in the pane at the very top.  Mine shows up as the format, duration, etc, (like FLAC - 6:20 - 40.3 MB).  Click on that and a new pane will appear with the full tag information from the file.

Maybe that will help you track down the tag fields you are looking for.  Then you can add them to the library fields and use them.

Thank you for your help!

Unfortunately this no longer appears to be a full dump, but instead a view into library tags and a few of the iTunes tags (CDDB tags specifically), but not all. A quick perusal of the hex dump shows this to be the case. 

Anyone from JRiver know if there's a more diagnostic level tag dump available that shows tags not in MC?

[Tigger]

Hi there,

I´m just switching from ITunes to JRiver and have exactly the same Problem.
MP3 Dump shows the tag information I´m looking for. I´ve added them as "TSOP=;TSO2=" to the library fields but still nothing gets displayed.

Are there any solutions ?

[blgentry]

I´m just switching from ITunes to JRiver and have exactly the same Problem.
MP3 Dump shows the tag information I´m looking for. I´ve added them as "TSOP=;TSO2=" to the library fields but still nothing gets displayed.

TSOP, etc are the abstract names used inside the file.  If you look at the tag dump, you'll notice that right next to the abstract names, there is a friendly name, that's more human readable.  In the case of Itunes, that's probably "Artist Sort Order".  This friendly name is what you use in MC to make a custom field to receive this data.

Here's a list of abstract names and their friendly names as written by various software:

http://help.mp3tag.de/main_tags.html

In summary:
1.  Do a tag dump to make sure your fields are present and note the friendly names of your field(s).
2.  Create custom field(s) in MC.
3.  Highlight the files in question and do "Update library (from tags)" to re-read the tags from the files.
4.  Check MC and see that the new field(s) are populated.

Good luck!

Brian.

[Arindelle]

Hi there,

I´m just switching from ITunes to JRiver and have exactly the same Problem.
MP3 Dump shows the tag information I´m looking for. I´ve added them as "TSOP=;TSO2=" to the library fields but still nothing gets displayed.

Are there any solutions ?

Assuming this is for Flac file containers (mp3, wav, aiff, and even alac may have some limitations) ... do not use TSOP= etc.; do not use a tag dump form a pure ID3 tagger (like mp3 rip) to determine the map name and you should be ok ...be that as it may, the names below should be your new custom field names (you can have them display differently of course)

TSOP (ID3v2)= ARTISTSORT (Vorbis Comment) or ARTIST SORT

TSO2 (ID3v2)= either ALBUMARTISTSORT (Vorbis Comment) or ALBUM ARTIST SORT

also if needed TSOC = either COMPOSERSORT or COMPOSER SORT

Basically MC seems to be using Vorbis Comment extended fields, with some tweaks so that almost everything from various formats can be inputted ... otherwise this would be very complicated for casual users.

I'm not going to go into hex dumps like the OP mentions as I have never used them. I have found that doing a tag dump from within JRiver is the easiest way. Different rippers are going to write slightly differently .... they, the new custom fields,  need to be exact. (although curiously I did create one in Title case instead of all caps and it worked?? - perhaps JRiver is not case sensitive) eg. if your external ripper is dbpoweramp a space is added why I indicate the alternative with the space, some rippers/Taggers that use extended Vorbis Comment will not put the space in so you may need to try both at first! why I put both mapping equivalents.

NOTE: of all the fields I have remapped, the sort field on album artist is the one that cause inconsistencies. I believe that is because of the way JRiver handles this field (with Album Artist (Auto)) and/or that the metadata is not available on the rip. Usually this is not a big deal as it is most often the same as Artist sort so you can just type in =[ARTISTSORT] to populate or use the swap expression (if you have version 21! which will flip to Lastname, Firstname)

Yes ... I have already requested, and I'm going to bump my post again, as this comes up a lot. a chart like these links below would REALLY help. https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=100957.0

general mapping chart => http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Tag_Mapping

if you have used/using Picard http://picard.musicbrainz.org/docs/mappings/

if you have used foobar => http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Foobar2000:ID3_Tag_Mapping
The only post I have every found on this forum dates to v15 https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=62389.msg418321#msg418321

[blgentry]

Assuming this is for Flac file containers (mp3, wav, aiff, and even alac may have some limitations) ...

Note that our new poster, Tigger, who is asking the current question, is coming from itunes.  So he shouldn't have FLAC files, since itunes won't import/play/read FLACs.

Brian.

[Arindelle]

Note that our new poster, Tigger, who is asking the current question, is coming from itunes.  So he shouldn't have FLAC files, since itunes won't import/play/read FLACs.

Brian.

ok, but it makes no differences for him for the 2 fields he is interested in. both are supported in itunes. I put in the flac as some extended fields just can't be written to the file, but I can see where that could be confusing

Again it depends on his tag dump, but  normally he should not have to create custom ID3 field names IMO (I don't think it would even work, but I admit have never tried - this works for me can't see his tag dump )

IF they happened to be tagged directly form itunes as mp4s it could look like this

soar (itunes "mp4")=TSOP (ID3v2)=> ARTISTSORT (Vorbis Comment) or ARTIST SORT

soaa (itunes "mp4")=TSO2 (ID3v2)=> either ALBUMARTISTSORT (Vorbis Comment) or ALBUM ARTIST SORT

the bold field names are what he should be using I use (depending on the tag dump, again)

EDITED -- sorry this was confusing ... well my heart was in the right place