Topic: Best Remote (Read 29694 times)

astromo · « **Reply #50 on:** July 10, 2015, 01:08:21 am »

twb1000, thanks for the tip.

I see they've got smart phone options as well. Looks like URC are keeping up with user trends.

BartMan01 · « **Reply #51 on:** July 10, 2015, 09:39:47 am »

Quote from: twb1000 on July 09, 2015, 10:20:32 pm

I do a lot of installs.
Best bang for the buck is Universal Remote MX900.

That remote has 50% negative reviews on Amazon and is listed as discontinued there. Some of those negative reviews seem to be about the fact that the company only supports installers and not end users, so your experience as an installer may be different than what a normal person would have.

I have used all kinds of different remotes, and as much as I hate what Logitech has done to the once great Harmony brand they are still the only thing I have found that is simple and easy to use by the non-technical members of the household for their price range. The two features that keep me using them are:
1 - State memory. As long as you use the remote to change things, it remembers the state of the equipment and does what is needed when an action is pressed. This prevents things from ending up 'wrong' when an action or macro is run.
2 - The 'help' button for when things do go wrong that tries to solve the problem and then takes the user step by step to a solution. This solves 99% of problems and has prevented countless calls from the family when it just isn't working.

twb1000 · « **Reply #52 on:** July 10, 2015, 01:10:04 pm »

I would like the "take away" from my post to be that using discrete ON/OFF IR codes and discrete INPUT selection IR codes greatly enhances the reliability and function of the remote. When the remote is properly set up with the discrete codes, if there is every a hiccup, the only thing required is to return to the home page and repeat the command. Also adding delays when required is very important (sometimes a device needs a second to initialize before receiving an input change command). Any remote is only as good as the program that is in it. A lot of people purchase these things expecting them to program themselves (like that is ever going to happen). Anyone purchasing a universal remote and wishing to implement MACROS to improve ease of operation needs to be a bit of a tinkerer and possess an analytical mind. The main thing I like about the URC is the button layout, the screen, and backlighting, when set up properly, easy to see and easy to use (also the IR and RF transmissions are very robust). I did call URC about the URC-RFS200 Power Pak bundle and it is discontinued. Frankly the PC programmable MX900 and the MRF260 base for the extra money are the way to go (in my humble opinion). I see them online for $200 for the remote and $60 for the base station. These are super easy to save different templates and load them onto other remotes or have backups (I know you can do the same with Harmony).

I know Harmony is more a "wizard" type program which frankly I find annoying. I know what I want it to do and I like writing the command directly to the buttons without being "asked" what I want to do. As I had said before, I was also really annoyed with Harmony's cloud response time (hopefully they improved it since the last time I was there). Frankly I hate implementing programming that depends on the remote having to "remember" the "state" of the equipment (these programming scenarios always tend to be buggy and glitchy). Kudos to Harmony for having the "check status" feature on there remote; it is my contention that well programmed remote should not need a "check status" feature in the first place. I am happy that Harmony remote is working well for you, and with that said, I would stick with it.

My 2 cents + another 2 cents

glynor · « **Reply #53 on:** July 10, 2015, 01:32:12 pm »

I have no interest in any remote with a screen. If I was going to do that, I'd use an iPad, and get a Crestron Series 3 for room control.

I like the Smart Control because:
* I only use it to control my PC (and turn on the amp and TV). It doesn't have to do anything else, 90% of the time. The only other action I even have programmed is my AppleTV, which basically only gets used for AirPlay.

* It is small and very, very simple. Battery is a watch-style battery, and I think they're designed to last 2 years or so.

flac.rules · « **Reply #54 on:** July 10, 2015, 01:52:05 pm »

Quote from: glynor on July 10, 2015, 01:32:12 pm

I have no interest in any remote with a screen. If I was going to do that, I'd use an iPad, and get a Crestron Series 3 for room control.

I like the Smart Control because:
* I only use it to control my PC (and turn on the amp and TV). It doesn't have to do anything else, 90% of the time. The only other action I even have programmed is my AppleTV, which basically only gets used for AirPlay.

* It is small and very, very simple. Battery is a watch-style battery, and I think they're designed to last 2 years or so.

It does look like a small and simple control, but it costs 150 dollars with the must-have base, right?

twb1000 · « **Reply #55 on:** July 10, 2015, 01:57:02 pm »

The screen has hard buttons that are located adjacent the screen is merely for "labels". I like hard button remote myself compared to the ones that have LCD touch screens, they just seem to be easier to operate. if you want to get really creative the other thing you can do with the remote like this is have multiple home screens for multiple zone locations (just have to have a navigation button to whichever zone you wish to go to) and have the same remote work anywhere in the house with any piece of equipment. One thing that is always confusing I find, is having the same button do different things in different modes of operation, it gets hard remembering what buttons do what when. That is where the button labels on the screen come in handy.

glynor · « **Reply #56 on:** July 10, 2015, 04:33:32 pm »

Quote from: Elvis133 on July 10, 2015, 01:52:05 pm

It does look like a small and simple control, but it costs 150 dollars with the must-have base, right?

I don't know on what planet that is a simple remote. I wish I could eliminate around half the buttons on the Smart Control (mostly the number pad, which I've never used for anything real).

To each their own. Obviously if you want something to control a whole bunch of devices, then you have to have more stuff. I don't. My TV in the living room is connected to two devices:

* HTPC
* AppleTV

That's it. I'd remove the AppleTV as well, and just use AirServer if I could get it to work with all video playback reliably (it mostly works, and is much better than Reflector, but still not perfect). So, I don't need a bunch of modes and stuff.

If I did, I'd do it with a custom programmed UI on a touchscreen (which is still easier than modes on a remote).

flac.rules · « **Reply #57 on:** July 10, 2015, 04:41:35 pm »

Quote from: glynor on July 10, 2015, 04:33:32 pm

I don't know on what planet that is a simple remote. I wish I could eliminate around half the buttons on the Smart Control (mostly the number pad, which I've never used for anything real).

To each their own. Obviously if you want something to control a whole bunch of devices, then you have to have more stuff. I don't. My TV in the living room is connected to two devices:

* HTPC
* AppleTV

That's it. I'd remove the AppleTV as well, and just use AirServer if I could get it to work with all video playback reliably (it mostly works, and is much better than Reflector, but still not perfect). So, I don't need a bunch of modes and stuff.

If I did, I'd do it with a custom programmed UI on a touchscreen (which is still easier than modes on a remote).

Hmm, I am not sure, the same planet where you said: "I like the Smart Control because: * It is small and very, very simple. Battery is a watch-style battery, and I think they're designed to last 2 years or so." I guess?

I have the same needs as you, but the smart control doesn't seem like a great fit for me, as the whole base-thing makes its expensive and somewhat of a hassle (I think, based on the posts in this thread, haven't tried it)

glynor · « **Reply #58 on:** July 10, 2015, 04:57:09 pm »

To each their own, but when I was talking about a "simple remote" the antithesis of what I was talking about looks like that one.

Like I said, I don't think the Logitech one is a perfect solution. There are things about it that annoy me. But overall it is pretty good, and was reasonably easy to set up.

flac.rules · « **Reply #59 on:** July 10, 2015, 05:07:46 pm »

Quote from: glynor on July 10, 2015, 04:57:09 pm

To each their own, but when I was talking about a "simple remote" the antithesis of what I was talking about looks like that one.

Like I said, I don't think the Logitech one is a perfect solution. There are things about it that annoy me. But overall it is pretty good, and was reasonably easy to set up.

Now I am thoroughly confused ? Do you think the Smart Control remote is simple or not? (I am not trying to be difficult, I am genuinely confused now)

A perfect solution probably won't show up, but a 150 dollar "simple" remote that doesn't connect directly to the computer(?) makes the smart control seem like it is a bit too far from perfect for my needs. But thank you for the tip

glynor · « **Reply #60 on:** July 10, 2015, 06:38:21 pm »

Quote from: Elvis133 on July 10, 2015, 05:07:46 pm

Do you think the Smart Control remote is simple or not?

I'm not talking about setup complexity, I'm talking about whether my four-year old can use it without instruction. Yes, I think the Smart Control remote is relatively simple, because it doesn't have very many buttons. It is smaller than my phone.

If it had even fewer buttons, it would be even better. The one that is the antithesis of my idea of a simple remote is this one:

(Which, as far as I can tell, has basically the same limitations, and more, by the way.)

Complexity of setup is an issue, though the Smart Control wasn't that bad to set up. It was a bit more annoying than it could have been, because my needs are pretty specific, but it still wasn't too bad. It took me about three hours to set up, almost a year ago, and I've never touched the setup again even once.

For years and years before, I used a Snapstream Firefly. It was good that it connected via USB directly to my computer and was a true HTPC remote, but getting it to turn my amp on, select the right input, and turn my TV on was super-annoying (each of which took literally seconds to set up on the Logitech Smart Control), so it had "setup" tradeoffs too. But, even then, once it was done it was done. The main reason I abandoned it was that:

* They were cheaply made. I went through three of them in probably 6 years.
* Snapstream changed their business model and stopped selling them, so it became increasingly difficult to find replacements.

kstuart · « **Reply #61 on:** July 10, 2015, 06:39:58 pm »

If you want simple and inexpensive - only controls the PC - even emulates the mouse:

http://www.amazon.com/Ortek-Windows-Infrared-Receiver-Ultimate/dp/B00224ZDFY/

glynor · « **Reply #62 on:** July 10, 2015, 06:40:23 pm »

Yeah, but it is IR, which is a complete dealbreaker for me. It is also still pretty big.

Like I said, though. To each their own. Options are good.

JimH · « **Reply #63 on:** July 10, 2015, 06:55:47 pm »

They work pretty well unless you're a long way away.

I use an MC Remote a lot. If I'm not on the couch, I use Gizmo. I prefer a remote with buttons if I'm in the dark.

6233638 · « **Reply #64 on:** July 10, 2015, 07:24:45 pm »

Quote from: glynor on July 10, 2015, 01:32:12 pm

I have no interest in any remote with a screen.

Agreed.
I just want a "dumb" remote which consolidates the features of the handful of remotes I have sitting around into a single device.
I don't have any need for macros, I would just selectively program a few commands from multiple remotes onto a single one.
I don't want another device to charge because it has a screen, just something that runs off a regular battery for years on end.

And I agree that the Harmony remote is far too cluttered/complex.
It's still a lot simpler than the remotes which require screens, but it can still be simpler than those devices, while being too complex at the same time.

The one other thing I'd really like to have in my setup, which I initially thought the Harmony could handle, is for Media Center to be switching to the correct inputs on the DAC/AVR when playback starts/resumes in certain zones.
I thought the Harmony Hub would interface with the PC and could be used as a PC-controlled IR blaster, while also allowing the remote to control the PC.
But it looks like the only "PC functionality" it has is for programming the remote via Logitech's database of IR codes.

And I'm still not sure whether Media Center can trigger IR commands when playback starts/resumes in a Zone either.

marko · « **Reply #65 on:** July 10, 2015, 07:36:58 pm »

Quote from: JimH on July 10, 2015, 06:55:47 pm

I prefer a remote with buttons if I'm in the dark.

That. Exactly that, is the only shortcoming for the Smart Control, in my opinion. Sure, the smartphone app offers haptic feedback, but what am I pressing? With the remote in my hand, I can feel my way around the remote, from the 'OK' button and hit just about everything I need without looking at it. That's impossible on the smartphone. On the other hand, the wife is really getting into controlling eveything from her iPhone, and trust me, if she's happy, well, then I'm delirious

We use the Harmony to control the Tivo, the TV and the HTPC. We don't need the repeater. Basic setup was all done on the PC in very short order indeed. Some MC macro stuff keyed over the first few days of use as I learned the possibilities available to us, and now, eveything is so simple, and just works, via remote, and/or smartphone.

My wife is a self-confessed technophobe. She hates anything 'gadgety' unles it 'does what she wants when she wants it to do it', every time. If she is coping with a Harmony Smart Control, anyone can.

6233638
I'm not sure. Initially, I thought I had to set up the HTPC as a PC in the Harmony setup, and that wasn't going so well, but, I then found that they had our ASRock in their database, and well, but for very minor tweaking, we were good to go.

-marko.

twb1000 · « **Reply #66 on:** July 10, 2015, 11:19:01 pm »

Where the URC shines is in macro programming and controlling lots of different equipment efficiently with one device. I am not sure about how you make a generic media remote turn on and off a TV, Bluray player, cable/TiVo box or an AV receiver. I am sure there are work arounds that can be accomplished by the computer itself. I just like dealing with it all in one program. Fewer buttons are great when you have an onscreen GUI to work with; a lot of equipment does not work that way. Having buttons with LCD text labels allows you to put the functions right where you need them clearly on Page 1 of the device you are operating.

The way I like to set up my remotes Home page with various devices and or activities, when you select any device activity all associated equipment is turned on and imputs selected as needed (one button press). If I want go to a different device/activity I navigate directly to the HOME page and select new Device/Activity. From any Device/Activity page I am in, I program the OFF button to turn off all equipment and navigate back to the HOME page. One button press in and one button press out (very simple). If you have discrete ON and OFF IR codes it does not matter if you send an ON blast to something that is already on, conversely if you send an OFF blast to equipment that is already off, the command is ignored. This is the reason why remotes with more extensive IR data bases and Screens work so much better than the "simpler" and dumber remotes. When these things are set up right they work very, very predictably.

By the way Glynor; nice picture. I love that remote.

My customers always say: I just want to push a button to watch TV or I just want to push a button to watch a DVD. That is what I give them. When you have 5 or more pieces of equipment that all need the correct marching orders, it gets a little more complicated.

imugli · « **Reply #67 on:** July 11, 2015, 01:22:50 am »

I'm going to jump in on the side of the Harmony 1. The only thing I have plugged into the TV are my Wii (which is bluetooth so not controlable) and the HTPC, and the activities work a charm with MC.

As an earlier poster said, the setup is a bit clunky (web based, so can take some time) but once set it up it's great.

glynor · « **Reply #68 on:** July 11, 2015, 02:11:12 am »

Quote from: imugli on July 11, 2015, 01:22:50 am

The only thing I have plugged into the TV are my Wii (which is bluetooth so not controlable) and the HTPC, and the activities work a charm with MC.

The Harmony hub-based remotes (any of them) can pair with a Wii. You might want to check it out.

The Bluetooth on my Smart Control works with my AppleTV perfectly via Bluetooth.

flac.rules · « **Reply #69 on:** July 11, 2015, 04:54:48 am »

Quote from: glynor on July 10, 2015, 06:38:21 pm

I'm not talking about setup complexity, I'm talking about whether my four-year old can use it without instruction. Yes, I think the Smart Control remote is relatively simple, because it doesn't have very many buttons. It is smaller than my phone.

Ok, then i think we agree, the smart control is a small an simple remote. However you do need the expensive base right? And the base communicates with he computer via IR?

flac.rules · « **Reply #70 on:** July 11, 2015, 04:56:51 am »

Quote from: kstuart on July 10, 2015, 06:39:58 pm

If you want simple and inexpensive - only controls the PC - even emulates the mouse:

Well, it doesn't have to be inexpensive, it just feels a bit bad to pay 150 dollars for a 30 dollar remote, and a 120 dollar base I don't really need

I will check out the ortek, but as stated by glynor, it is a bit big, and IR is a drawback.

glynor · « **Reply #71 on:** July 11, 2015, 09:03:49 am »

Quote from: Elvis133 on July 11, 2015, 04:54:48 am

Ok, then i think we agree, the smart control is a small an simple remote. However you do need the expensive base right? And the base communicates with he computer via IR?

The Logitech Harmony Smart Control includes the remote and the hub. It is $130 on Amazon.

The only other thing you might need is an IR Receiver for your computer. Those are a dime-a-dozen, but if you want it to be able to blast too, and maybe have multiple zones, I really like my USB-UIRT. The remote will also talk to the computer via Bluetooth, though. If you do this, by default it shows up as a keyboard, and you can't modify how the computer interprets the keypresses (with EventGhost or Girder). If you just want them to be regular keyboard buttons (including multimedia keys and whatnot), it'll control MC fine by itself in this mode.

If you want more flexibility so that buttons do one thing in MC, and something else in Firefox (or different things in MC depending on the state of the computer at the moment), then you need to use EventGhost or Girder. This is easiest if you blast IR from the hub and use a IR Receiver on the computer to "listen" to the commands. But, you can do this via BlueTooth too, if you want. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, though, there is a free application you can install that intercepts the Bluetooth commands (if you pair it as though the computer is a PS3, instead of a computer) and then you can route the button presses to EventGhost or Girder.

I didn't go this route because I didn't want yet another little software application to manage on my computer, so I decided to try IR first. I thought it would be non-responsive, and that I'd have to switch to Bluetooth for everything, but it works perfectly and is super-responsive, so my concerns were unfounded.

Quote from: twb1000 on July 10, 2015, 11:19:01 pm

When you have 5 or more pieces of equipment that all need the correct marching orders, it gets a little more complicated.

I've done a ton of fancy room-control systems. If I was doing something like this, I'd use a Crestron DMPS3-200-C (or 300-C, depending on how many inputs and outputs I needed), and use a combination of:

* Crestron's Mobile Apps: I use the iOS app heavily at work and it is pretty fantastic
* The Crestron HR-100 or HR-150 for the standard living room remote.

twb1000 · « **Reply #72 on:** July 11, 2015, 10:51:53 am »

At $6,600.00 the Crestron DMPS3-200-C might be a little out of reach for many. I also use iRule which is pretty powerful (does not have handheld remote or integration - which kind of sucks). The Clobal Cache devices that work with iRule are great and inexpensive. One thing I do like about RF/IR systems (like URC) is that the response is instantaneous which is more of an issue with DVR and fast forwarding through commercials (is to over shoot). I am going to say it again, can't tell you how much more functional a remote with a page system and smart navigation to the required page is (it opens up all kinds of possibilities). The Harmony simple remote does look like a "big bang for the buck". For me I would like to if has discrete IR codes for devices and how the programing works; I like to choose my own IR code as opposed to a "wizard" set up. Does the Harmony Simple Remote force you to use the "wizard" programming?

glynor · « **Reply #73 on:** July 11, 2015, 12:02:17 pm »

Quote from: twb1000 on July 11, 2015, 10:51:53 am

For me I would like to if has discrete IR codes for devices

It does.

Quote from: twb1000 on July 11, 2015, 10:51:53 am

Does the Harmony Simple Remote force you to use the "wizard" programming?

Sort of. You have to go through a short wizard to select the devices you want to control for each action. But then you can assign each button individually (the wizard pre-sets them, but then you can modify them). The wizard is basically three pages (the first of which is essentially just naming the action and then picking an icon for it).

I've never used the older Harmony-1 style systems, but it isn't too bad. Obnoxious, and somewhat limited, but not too bad.

Quote from: twb1000 on July 11, 2015, 10:51:53 am

At $6,600.00 the Crestron DMPS3-200-C might be a little out of reach for many.

Obviously. Their MSRP prices are not realistic though. I pay around $2100 for our DMPS3-200's from our AV vendor, I believe. I'd have to pull out my latest invoice to be sure.

BartMan01 · « **Reply #74 on:** July 11, 2015, 02:32:20 pm »

With all of the Harmony 'sort of' love in this thread, one thing to be aware of - the tools to program the remote all require a connection to the mother ship to work. I had to reprogram/upate one of mine right after Christmas once and their servers were overloaded due to everyone who got one as a present trying to set it up at once. Servers down/overloaded = no ability to program the remote for a day or two.

I have a love/hate relationship with them. When they were an independent company they were wonderful and support was great. You could call them up and get other user's custom setups transferred to your account or have missing commands (like discrete on/off) added to devices in their database. Since Logitech bought them, the support has gone way downhill and they only provide free help for a short window. Add a new device after the initial window and need their help, expect to pay.

I also had the issue with the poorly designed battery slot in the Harmony One where if the battery swells up (and the ones they were using for that remote at first did), then it jammed in the slot. Now they are fixing that for free, but when I had the issue their 'solution' was to offer me a new one from their web store at a 'discount' which made the final price more than what I could get it for new on Amazon at the time.

Bottom line is that Harmony remotes/service are far from perfect - but having used all types, they are the only ones the whole family can use without having to call me for help every-time I leave the house because something wasn't working right.

flac.rules · « **Reply #75 on:** July 11, 2015, 04:41:32 pm »

Quote from: glynor on July 11, 2015, 09:03:49 am

The Logitech Harmony Smart Control includes the remote and the hub. It is $130 on Amazon.

The only other thing you might need is an IR Receiver for your computer. Those are a dime-a-dozen, but if you want it to be able to blast too, and maybe have multiple zones, I really like my USB-UIRT. The remote will also talk to the computer via Bluetooth, though. If you do this, by default it shows up as a keyboard, and you can't modify how the computer interprets the keypresses (with EventGhost or Girder). If you just want them to be regular keyboard buttons (including multimedia keys and whatnot), it'll control MC fine by itself in this mode.

If you want more flexibility so that buttons do one thing in MC, and something else in Firefox (or different things in MC depending on the state of the computer at the moment), then you need to use EventGhost or Girder. This is easiest if you blast IR from the hub and use a IR Receiver on the computer to "listen" to the commands. But, you can do this via BlueTooth too, if you want. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, though, there is a free application you can install that intercepts the Bluetooth commands (if you pair it as though the computer is a PS3, instead of a computer) and then you can route the button presses to EventGhost or Girder.

Hmm, ok, so i can actually just buy only the remote (without a hub), an communicate directly with the computer via bluetooth? If so it might be a good alternative.

twb1000 · « **Reply #76 on:** July 11, 2015, 07:45:45 pm »

Is the communication on the simple remote RF or Blutooth? Blutooth is kind of a "deal breaker" for me (the communication is too unreliable). The other nice thing about the URC is that you can isolate IR blasters to specific devices and the bases are addressable so you can have them in different locations in different zones and all play nice together.

imugli · « **Reply #77 on:** July 11, 2015, 08:18:14 pm »

Quote from: glynor on July 11, 2015, 02:11:12 am

The Harmony hub-based remotes (any of them) can pair with a Wii. You might want to check it out.

The Bluetooth on my Smart Control works with my AppleTV perfectly via Bluetooth.

Thanks Glynor.

New remote isn't high on list of things to buy right now, but will be eventually, and a hub based remote will probably be the one we go with.

glynor · « **Reply #78 on:** July 11, 2015, 11:30:42 pm »

Quote from: Elvis133 on July 11, 2015, 04:41:32 pm

Hmm, ok, so i can actually just buy only the remote (without a hub), an communicate directly with the computer via bluetooth? If so it might be a good alternative.

Read above again more carefully, as this has already been addressed. The remote does not, and cannot, do anything without the hub (which is the part that has Bluetooth and the IR blaster). The hub comes with the remote, though. The price above is for both the remote and the hub.

The price for the remote alone is $30 or so, if you want to add one to one of the other Hub-based remotes (or replace a lost/broken one I suppose). But it would be useless without one of the hubs, as it couldn't do anything.

Quote from: twb1000 on July 11, 2015, 07:45:45 pm

Is the communication on the simple remote RF or Blutooth? Blutooth is kind of a "deal breaker" for me (the communication is too unreliable).

Proprietary RF. I imagine the same kind they use for their remote slide advancer doohickies.

Quote from: twb1000 on July 11, 2015, 07:45:45 pm

The other nice thing about the URC is that you can isolate IR blasters to specific devices and the bases are addressable so you can have them in different locations in different zones and all play nice together.

You can do the same with the Smart Remotes. They can be "locked" to their particular hub, if you want to (or not, if you don't want to).

glynor · « **Reply #79 on:** July 11, 2015, 11:35:05 pm »

Quote from: BartMan01 on July 11, 2015, 02:32:20 pm

the tools to program the remote all require a connection to the mother ship to work.

I agree. This is super-dumb. I never had trouble with it going down, though. Of course, my experience with the reliability of their servers is limited, as I really only programmed it a few times over a handful of days, and then never touched it again since.

I'm not sure you can't do it without logging into your account now (since it worked for me), but it does want to log into an account whether you program it via a mobile device or on your computer via USB. The limitation makes sense for the mobile device programming (because people can't figure out IP addresses and stuff), but for the direct USB connection it is stupid.

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Author Topic: Best Remote (Read 29694 times)