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[Godbero]

Hello,

I would like some help building my next PC. It is probably closest to what’s called a Home Theater PC (HTPC) here on the forum, but I’m going for more. I want to combine an audiophile level music player, with a great movie player, and maybe a DVR too. I think these should all work in the same box.

Design Ideas

HTPC
The usual goal for an HTPC is sufficient performance to play 1080p content, but with minimum power consumption, and no noise. I would assume we want to upgrade this to 4k content now. Although onboard graphics might be able to do this, a graphics card would allow an easier upgrade to a higher video standard when it comes and I would need HDMI output for the A/V receiver. A good Blu-ray drive is needed for playing back commercial disks and allowing this unit to replace my Blu-ray player. Both the graphics card and Blu-ray drive need to be very quiet and not cause any interference with the sound. I’m aiming at "Oppo Blu-ray player" quality with attached storage (I wonder what brand drive they use?)

DVR
I assume besides the software (I have MS Media Center) all this requires is a TV-tuner card.

Audio
The guys over at ComputerAudiophile.com have these ideas about great sound.
•   Absolutely silent = No moving parts, fanless servers, no spinning hard drives
•   Low heat and Low power = because of the no fans above
•   Capable of great sound = Play 16/44.1, 24/44.1, 24/88.2, 24/96, 24/176.4, 24/192 and DSD all bit perfect; no interference from PSU or other parts

My desire for a Blu-ray drive already gives me one moving part, but I would like to minimize moving parts and noise. I like the idea of a audio component size case, like a DVD player or receiver, which is full-size and should help with cooling.

Here are the specs for the Computer Audiophile server as a starting point. They say the motherboard choice was based on a 7 year support lifespan. I can see the benefit of that, since I have a 7 year old computer that is hard to support, but I’m looking for a balance of price versus performance. The same can be said for the power supply. Is this what it costs for clean power?

I have Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit with Media Center for this build. Planning to output to a HD-TV and not planning to play games on this system. I would love to stay under $2,000.

All suggestions and ideas welcome. Thank you in advance for any help in finalizing my build.

Motherboard: Supermicro X10SLH-F
http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C22...

Case: Streacom FC10
http://www.streacom.com/products/fc10-fanless-chassis/

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1241 v3 (BX80646E31241V3)
http://ark.intel.com/products/80909/Intel-Xeon-Processo...

RAM: Crucial (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Unbuffered DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Server Memory (CT2KIT102472BD160B)
http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/ct2kit102472bd160b

SSD: Samsung 850 Pro 128GB 2.5-Inch SATA III Internal SSD (MZ-7KE128BW)
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/mi...

HDD: Seagate Desktop HDD 6TB 6Gb/s 128MB Cache 3.5-Inch HDD (STBD6000100)
Seagate Desktop HDD 6TB 6Gb/s 128MB Cache 3.5-Inch HDD (STBD6000100)

PSU: HDPlex Linear Power Supply in combination with the HDPlex 250W Internal DC-ATX PSU
http://www.hd-plex.com/fanless-ATX-power-supply

Music App: JRiver Media Center
http://www.jriver.com/

USB Card: SOtM tX-PCIexp
http://www.sotm.sonore.us/SOtM3.html#6

SATA Filter: SOtM SATA power filter
http://www.sotm.sonore.us/SOtM3.html#3

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/612-computer-audiophile-pocket-server-c-p-s-v4-pipeline/

[astromo]

I'd suggest you check out mwillems' advice in the thread just before your own:
Re: Please help me build a server (PC based)

It supports my instinctive reaction that you're opting for more RAM than you'd probably need. Depends on how much streaming you intend to get into, as I've just learned from mwillems.

From my limited knowledge, Xeon CPUs are designed for full blown servers where rock stable performance is a must. For an audio unit, I wouldn't think you necessarily need this. Video - could be a different story but I suspect it can be managed. One to think about, especially if your budget gets pushed.

For an optical drive, do you need an internal unit or could you manage with an external drive? Depends on how you operate. I rip my music and videos and then store the results (one advantage of this method is silent playback). I can't remember the last time I listened to or watched some media direct from the ODD. In hindsight, I probably would opt to go external.

Just some thoughts. Over to you for working out the rest..  

[mwillems]

The main thing I'll note is that most passively cooled discrete video cards aren't really that much better for home theater/MadVR purposes than modern high quality intel integrated graphics, and in some cases the fanless discrete cards are actually worse than the integrated graphics.  For example, one of the higher speced passively cooled video cards currently available is the nvidia GT 730.  That card has a worse benchmark than some of the better intel integrated graphics solutions.  Almost all modern motherboards come with an HDMI output, so I wouldn't worry about that.

Of note, Xeon processors often come without any integrated graphics at all, which is not a problem if you have a solid external card, but by buying a Xeon and then fitting it with a fanless GPU you're paying extra twice for potentially inferior graphics performance (once for the Xeon which have a price premium over "Core" processors, and once for the discrete card over the intergrated graphics that comes "free" with the Core processors).

If you want better home theater performance than intel's integrated graphics can provide, I would strongly recommend looking at the Asus Strix line of GPUs (750 or above).  They have fans, but the fans only turn on when the card gets hot, which means in the absence of video load (i.e. normal audio listening) the fans are off.  Even when under video loads, the fans aren't always on, and when on are very quiet.

But given the size of the case you're talking about, you will have a very tough time fitting a modern high-quality discrete card.  It might be possible, but depending on what you can fit, you may well be better off with the latest generation integrated graphics.

My advice is to take a good close look at the benchmarks of any discrete card you plan to purchase, and compare performance to integrated solutions with specific reference to home theater/MadVR use.  The discrete card may have a similar or slightly better "3d Benchmark", but check around on the MadVR forums and you may find it doesn't actually allow for better scaler settings, in which case it is essentially superfluous.  Most of the integrated solutions don't currently support 4k, but many of the discrete cards don't either so research carefully.  

FWIW, the Intel Iris 6100 integrated chip is speced to support 4k and ships with their i7 NUC board, but I'm not sure what other chipsets it ships with.  If you can wait a bit, it looks like the Iris 6200 will be shipping on some Broadwell desktop chips soon: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/06/intel-launches-long-delayed-quad-core-broadwell-cpus-and-the-iris-pro-6200-gpu/

[mattkhan]

There is a comparison of broadwell vs haswell igpu performance in http://www.anandtech.com/show/9320/intel-broadwell-review-i7-5775c-i5-5765c/7 which certainly shows a healthy uptick in performance, whether this translates to a meaningful difference in madvr is another question. It's also a question that heavily depends on what sort of content you watch and how big your screen is. Bluray only on a 50-60" TV is one thing, DVD (or less) upscaled to a 100" screen is quite another (I am leaving 4k completely to one side there btw as I assume anyone doing 4k will have a beefy video card).

To give a concrete example, I moved from a haswell igpu to a GTX660 because haswell could not handle interlaced 1080p content smoothly, the 660 can. I don't think there is that much difference for BD content.

[mwillems]

To give a concrete example, I moved from a haswell igpu to a GTX660 because haswell could not handle interlaced 1080p content smoothly, the 660 can. I don't think there is that much difference for BD content.

I agree, content type and screen size are important things to consider, and what you're describing matches my own experience with the caveat that haswell iGPUs can handle interlaced content smoothly if you reduce the MadVR settings.  I had to configure profile switching based on interlaced vs. non-interlaced, but the HD5000 iGPU I run in my kitchen system works fine for all content once appropriately configured (albeit with reduced scaling quality for interlaced content).  

It's clear that the current generation of iGPUs is better, but not clear how much better.  Preliminary Passmarks suggest that the Iris 6100 (974) is about 50% better than the HD5000(600) in my two year old NUC.  The Iris 6200 isn't in the wild yet, so no passmarks.

The 660 is a better card, obviously, and allows for higher level scaling across the board.  I run a 660 in my living room HTPC, and it's been a workhorse for me, but is not (to my knowledge) available in a fanless model (or as a strix).

[mattkhan]

I agree, content type and screen size are important things to consider, and what you're describing matches my own experience with the caveat that haswell iGPUs can handle interlaced content smoothly if you reduce the MadVR settings.  I had to configure profile switching based on interlaced vs. non-interlaced, but the HD5000 iGPU I run in my kitchen system works fine for all content once appropriately configured (albeit with reduced scaling quality for interlaced content). 

mine has a HD4600 so I'm not sure if that makes the difference but I found it v hard to get it to consistently deal with interlaced content even at reduced levels. My choice was pay up for the bigger card and enjoy a quiet life (because the gpu has headroom so I can set it and forget it) or spend time trying to tune but always still leaving behind a potential easter egg (aka a source of htpc induced marital disharmony!). I choose an easy life in that situation

[DeepPurple23]

Thanks for starting this thread, it's given me some ideas for my own project.  I will note however, if you're aiming for 4K compatibility, you should wait on your ODD until the end of July, the Ultra Blu-Ray format is being announced and while I'm sure the computer drives will not be cheap, you'll see them much sooner than other hardware, i.e. Oppo.  Computer ODD probably ship in August/September sometime.  Of course I heard Oppo's unit is ready just waiting for the announcement, not that the person who told me was authorized to say anything...  In any event, also make sure your HDMI output is HDMI 2.0 compatible otherwise forget 4K content.  In order to keep it quite you'll probably have to rely on integrated graphics.  I didn't see any of the passively cooled cards that will pass 4K properly, of course nVidia could release a GTX 930 and that would change, but I haven't seen anything about that yet.

Good luck and let us know how the build goes.

[Sparks67]

You don't need a server board and Xeon for a fan less pc.  I would wait until sky lake is released in July or August.  Use only SSD or m2 for your boot drive.  Sky lake is going to have thunderbolt 3. So you have plenty options for a DAC.  Thunderbolt 3 gives you the option to use a sas expander.  http://www.sasexpanders.com   The advantage is that you can daisy multiple sas enclosures. The server will need more space as you collection starts to grow.  Thunderbolt also gives you the option to do fiber optic cable. 

Passive power supplies have a limit on watts, but my last power fan less power supply was 600 Watts. This limits your selection of video cards.    My video card was a Evga 760 GTX. Asus has a  I only used 2 SSD drives and one bluray player. I have both an external and internal Bluray recorder. I prefer an internal.  If you don't want to use thunderbolt, then another option is an Areca raid card, but be sure that it has an external port for a sas expander. You will be limited on distance with the cable.

My latest HTPC sever is based on Haswell-e, but it was built for 4k gaming. The server is liquid cooled, but it will be down in the basement in my rack.

[felix2]

I have been running HTPC for 5 years, based on 3 custom builds I designed. My requirements are advanced performance. With this, here's my 2 cents:

- Supermicro server mobo and Xeon CPU are the wrong choice. You pay extra for server-optimized hardware that's of no use in HTPC. Get a regular mobo and CPU of i7 class or AMD FX class.
- Use any good graphics card under $200. But if you insist on 4K than pick the cheapest that support it. nVidia or AMD are both excellent, choice depends on your taste of configuration app. If you want to do the occasional video editing nvidia is slightly better depending on your edit app.
- HTPC puts out a lot of heat, meaning lots of fans to cool especially inside a home theater equipment cabinet. If you want real silent operation (who doesn't), pick the biggest desktop cabinet you can find and install the smallest number of large fans. Large fans are quieter and move lots of air - but this means big case. I use the Cooler Master HAF XB EVO case - 2x140mm damped fans at front, 120mm damped fan at rear attached to CPU liquid cool radiator, and block all other air intake surfaces. Only then the HTPC runs at a reasonable 35 deg C temp and dead silent.
- 16GB RAM far more than enough, no need for server memory
- SSD/HD OK
- DO NOT go for fanless power supply. Way too underclass for HTPC with GPU, way too noisy and not reliable enough. Get the best brand internal 800W power supply. (I use Seasonic.) Do not skim on HTPC power supply - I did and I blew 2 of them over 3 years. Cabinet too hot, ventilation bad, long hours of operations, GPU runs hot decoding high bitrate video - all adds up big stress.
- No need for special PCIe/USB card - the SOtM card is nonsense. If you want high quality connection from mobo USB to an external audio DAC, 1) get the best computer power supply you can, which will deliver low noise on 5V and ground for the entire PC, 2) get a good quality DAC, which will isolate USB input electronics to the DAC/output electronics (anything more than $700 today is pretty good), 3) connect to the DAC using audio grade USB cable of not more than 2m. For connection to an AV receiver you will use HDMI, not USB.
- JRiver - go for it. It's the best, but you gotta learn it well.

Have fun.

[RC23]

What´s your recommendation for optical drive? Internal or external? I suppose internal because SATA connection is better than usb.

Which drive models are best for cd ripping? A cd/dvd drive or a combi player for cd/dvd/bluray?

Is the ASUS BC-12D1ST drive a good choice?


The other PC components:

SilverStone Grandia GD07B case with enough space for components

ATX mainboard MSI Z77A-G43

Intel Core i5-3570k Quad-Core "Ivy Bridge"

Noctua NH-U9S CPU cooler

Crucial BX100 250GB SSD
 
2x Corsair Vengeance LP black DIMM kit 8GB, DDR3-1600, CL9-9-9-24 for Windows Server 2012 R2 and JRiver as RAM player

ASUS GTX660 TI graphic card

be quiet! Straight Power E9-CM 580W ATX 2.4

Seagate NAS HDD 2TB 3,5'' SATA for audio

WD Caviar Green 3TB & 2TB for video and image (can electrically be switched off)

inLine SATA cables transparent version, better shielded

4x Scythe Slip Stream 120 fan with 500rpm

TBS 6922 Satellite TV Card

JRiver MC in combination with AudiophileOptimizer played in RAM

OS Windows Server 2012 R2 / Windows 7 / Windows 10 (later for 4k monitor)

Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 audio interface connected by FireWire

My next HTPC will be built next month.

[felix2]

What´s your recommendation for optical drive? Internal or external?
>> Internal not only has SATA but full DC power to supply robust drive design. External OK if USB v3, but USB power only permits compromised design. Tough for BD playback.

Which drive models are best for cd ripping? A cd/dvd drive or a combi player for cd/dvd/bluray?
>> The key for audiophile grade CD ripping is not drive type, but rip speed. X2 is required, max x4. For this to work both drive and rip software must support low speed rip. Should use internal because it allows precision motor/laser design for CD. I retain my 'old' Plextor PX-716A CD/DVD drive for CD ripping due to its high quality design. Rip files from it sound significantly better than all more recent optical drives I have.

Is the ASUS BC-12D1ST drive a good choice?
>> Pretty good. But keep in mind such super combo drives are designed mainly for BD R/W at high speeds. The DVD/CD portion, which use a separate laser/mechanical unit, will necessarily be of lower design. If you want the highest quality CD rip, do it from a CD/DVD only drive.

SilverStone Grandia GD07B case
>> Case is fine but keep in mind how you handle the wireless keyboard. You can't plug in the keyboard USB transmitter at the front and close the door. But plugging it at the back will much reduce effective range. So you might consider a USB cable. Also with door closed consider ventilation airflow. It is very difficult to maintain airflow in a closed HTPC environment and keep it quiet.

ATX mainboard MSI Z77A-G43
>> All modern mobo will be OK for HTPC. Your main considerations are card slots and price.

Intel Core i5-3570k Quad-Core "Ivy Bridge"
== OK

Noctua NH-U9S CPU cooler
>> Don't know about this cooler but should use water cooler.


Crucial BX100 250GB SSD
>> More than enough because you are only using it for OS and apps. All media goes to other HDs.
 
2x Corsair Vengeance LP black DIMM kit 8GB, DDR3-1600, CL9-9-9-24 for Windows Server 2012 R2 and JRiver as RAM player
>> OK. I use Win Server 2012 too but for my dedicated network media server, not HTPC. Make sure Win Server has drivers for all devices you install (drivers for server is much limited).

ASUS GTX660 TI graphic card
>> OK

be quiet! Straight Power E9-CM 580W ATX 2.4
>> OK but maybe a 800W is better. Not because you will use 800W, but a 800W runs cooler and more robustly designed to handle possible high temperature if HTPC get blocked. [Accidental ventilation blocks killed two of my HTPC power supplies. Today I also use Be Quite!]

Seagate NAS HDD 2TB 3,5'' SATA for audio. WD Caviar Green 3TB & 2TB for video and image (can electrically be switched off)
>> OK but I would reverse the choices. WD Green for audio, Seagate NAS for video.

4x Scythe Slip Stream 120 fan with 500rpm
>> Get the quietest high speed fans with rubber inserts at mounting holes.

TBS 6922 Satellite TV Card
>> Whatever that fits your need. I have a Blackmagic Design 'Intensity' PCIx1 HD recording card. It spits quite a bit of heat, like a GPU card.

JRiver MC in combination with AudiophileOptimizer played in RAM

OS Windows Server 2012 R2 / Windows 7 / Windows 10 (later for 4k monitor)

Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 audio interface connected by FireWire
>> This turns your HTPC into a DAW as well. Since the PC now accepts so many types of analog audio inputs, you should ensure AC power is clean and filtered, grounding is done well and no ground loops caused by analog, USB and firewire cables. Make sure Saffire app/driver support by Win Server, else use Win7+. Can you record from Saffire in high-res, or recored sat video, and play HTPC HD video at the same time? [Tough test]. If not, check out a more powerful CPU and your HD design/mix. I am pretty sure if you record media into the same drive that play HD video at the same time, there might be problems. In fact this is such a problem that I have separated recording and playing into two PCs!

Enjoy!

[RC23]

>> Internal not only has SATA but full DC power to supply robust drive design. External OK if USB v3, but USB power only permits compromised design. Tough for BD playback.

I quite agree with you.

>> The key for audiophile grade CD ripping is not drive type, but rip speed. X2 is required, max x4. For this to work both drive and rip software must support low speed rip. Should use internal because it allows precision motor/laser design for CD. I retain my 'old' Plextor PX-716A CD/DVD drive for CD ripping due to its high quality design. Rip files from it sound significantly better than all more recent optical drives I have.

I have a historic Plextor Premium CD drive used in my old PC for CD ripping which has worked great. But IDE is out and has been replaced by SATA. Is an IDE to SATA adapter a good solution?

>> Case is fine but keep in mind how you handle the wireless keyboard. You can't plug in the keyboard USB transmitter at the front and close the door. But plugging it at the back will much reduce effective range. So you might consider a USB cable. Also with door closed consider ventilation airflow. It is very difficult to maintain airflow in a closed HTPC environment and keep it quiet.

I will test keyboard by USB and Bluetooth. ... Two fans will be seated in the front buttom and therefore the airstream goes from bottom to rear and side.  

>> Don't know about this cooler but should use water cooler.

This system will be inaudibly cooled by air. The Noctua NH-U9S CPU cooler comes from Austria and is a very effective cooler with silent fan. http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/noctua_nh_d9l_and_nh_u9s_cpu_cooler_review,10.html

Crucial BX100 250GB SSD

>> More than enough because you are only using it for OS and apps. All media goes to other HDs.

The reserve space of SSD goes to fast video and image processing.
 

>> OK. I use Win Server 2012 too but for my dedicated network media server, not HTPC. Make sure Win Server has drivers for all devices you install (drivers for server is much limited).

I will check it.

>> OK but maybe a 800W is better. Not because you will use 800W, but a 800W runs cooler and more robustly designed to handle possible high temperature if HTPC get blocked. [Accidental ventilation blocks killed two of my HTPC power supplies. Today I also use Be Quite!]

That´right. Additionally a power supply with low ripple is important. The Straight Power E9-CM 580W works very silent but for lower ripple there is a better choice: Seasonic G5550. Here a review only in German which is my native language but the diagrams are speaking by themselves. http://www.hardwaremax.net/reviews/netzteile/815-test-drei-goldnetzteile-von-cooler-master-und-seasonic.html?showall=&start=7

>> OK but I would reverse the choices. WD Green for audio, Seagate NAS for video.

Why WD Green for audio and Seagate NAS for video? Audio will work more frequently for myself as video.

4x Scythe Slip Stream 120 fan with 500rpm

>> Get the quietest high speed fans with rubber inserts at mounting holes.

It´s the quietest fan. http://www.quietpc.com/sy-kazejyuni-500

>> This turns your HTPC into a DAW as well. Since the PC now accepts so many types of analog audio inputs, you should ensure AC power is clean and filtered, grounding is done well and no ground loops caused by analog, USB and firewire cables. Make sure Saffire app/driver support by Win Server, else use Win7+. Can you record from Saffire in high-res, or recored sat video, and play HTPC HD video at the same time? [Tough test]. If not, check out a more powerful CPU and your HD design/mix. I am pretty sure if you record media into the same drive that play HD video at the same time, there might be problems. In fact this is such a problem that I have separated recording and playing into two PCs!

The Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 will be the routing tool and DA converter for my active 3-way-loudspeakers plus subwoofer.