Topic: EPG (Read 76959 times)

muzicman0 · « **Reply #50 on:** July 24, 2015, 12:01:17 pm »

SD is no longer using Zap2it. They used to, but a while ago it was changed.

I am using SD in addition to an application called XMLTVDB to get Season and Episode info.

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #51 on:** July 24, 2015, 01:04:27 pm »

The quote I copied from imeric's post seems to me that he is saying that he is getting data from Zap2xml (second paragraph) but just missing some days. I thought Zap2it was totally off-line - perhaps there is still some data available. Maybe I'm totally misreading his post.

Where is the data being scraped from?

@musicman, I think I will be following your lead. I don't mind paying Schedules Direct for access to the EPG data. I didn't see in your previous post where the XMLTVDB gets its data - is it "automatically" scraping Schedules Direct, or is XMLTVDB a stand-alone third-party program where you need to point it to Schedules Direct or to some other EPG data provider?

I just want to set this up once and have it work for a couple of years.

I'll read through these posts in more detail over the weekend.

muzicman0 · « **Reply #52 on:** July 24, 2015, 01:34:38 pm »

@CountryBumkin: I am using MC2XML to get the XMLTV file. Then I am using the XMLTVDB to 'add' info to the XMLTV. XMLTVDB actually reads the XML file and then accesses thetvdb.com to get season and episode info. So, my process is as follows:

1) On login, I have a scheduled task that starts XMLTVDB.jar. That java application monitors a folder and when a new xmltv file is added, it processes that file.
2) at 1AM I have a scheduled task to run MC2XML to download the latest guide data from SD.
--this kicks off XMLTVDB to process the file automatically -- no intervention is required.
3) at 4AM I have set MC20 to load guide data, and I point it to the updated XML file that XMLTVDB created at 1AM.

So far it seems very reliable. There is also capability in the XMLTVDB to add exceptions, so for instance, if it thinks that Doctor Who is the original series, but you are doing the 2005 version, you can add that to a properties file, and it will remember it from then on. So far, I haven't had this issue.

imeric · « **Reply #53 on:** July 24, 2015, 01:35:21 pm »

CountryBumkin you are correct I tried to use zap2xml yesterday. I registered (for free), got it working and it is providing data for up to 12 days (with season and episode if I add -D in the command line so not sure why people were having problem with this..) but all hours were missing from the xml file for all the days between 8pm and 11pm..I tried it a few times and it would consistently do this. (See my previous posts for more details)

So because of this issue I found a way to use the Native JRiver EPG for my STB and ATSC and have all channels but now my issue is it only downloads 3 days of data... What am I missing?

thx

Yaobing · « **Reply #54 on:** July 24, 2015, 02:43:06 pm »

Quote from: imeric on July 24, 2015, 01:35:21 pm

So because of this issue I found a way to use the Native JRiver EPG for my STB and ATSC and have all channels but now my issue is it only downloads 3 days of data... What am I missing?

It must be a Microsoft issue (this also answers your other question regarding where the data come from). I can confirm that today I am only getting three days of data.

imeric · « **Reply #55 on:** July 24, 2015, 05:43:05 pm »

Thjx Yaobbing for confirming it's not me (ort the fact that I'M canadian

... How many days can we normally expect out of the native guide? Since Microsoft is now going to Rovi instead of Zap2it will this affect us?

Thx folks. Can'T wait to see how my JRiver TV expereience will be tonight!!

Yaobing · « **Reply #56 on:** July 24, 2015, 06:14:41 pm »

I have consistently gotten 8 days of data for a long time.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #57 on:** July 24, 2015, 08:40:37 pm »

Quote from: Yaobing on July 24, 2015, 08:35:09 am

I can change that.

I think it would be a good idea to change it. I understand why it was done the way it is, but I don't really see a downside to making it available when creating a rule. Having the button active also gives people a way to look at the anchor time, which will help them understand what it is.

This is one of the areas where MC has been designed around creating a rule based and dependent on a program in the Guide. I would like to see MC move more toward independent rules, which have multiple criteria used to match programs that appear in the Guide. I just haven't made time to write up my ideas.

But for example I might want to set up a rule with three criteria:
1. Name includes the term "CSI".
2. Name does not include the term "New York".
3. Has a Date field greater than 2013

The modifiers are already additional criteria, such as:
4. Don't record anything with the repeat/rerun flag set.
5. Don't record anything that has been recorded before, based on the Series, Name, and/or Description.

So the concept is already in MC, as is the idea of multiple rules for searches, views and so on. I would just like to be able to create more criteria around the Series, Name, and Description data in the EPG. Of course there would need to be a simple "just record the program" process, as well as the more advanced, multiple criteria rules creation.

Oh, and I would like to see the name of a rule, such as "NCIS: New Orleans" become independent of the text used to select a program for recording. So for example, I may use three rules to select that program, because I know EPG data is inconsistent:
a. Includes "NCIS", OR
b. Include "N.C.I.S", AND
c. Includes "New Orleans".
As another example, a rule may be named "My Favourite Football Games", where the criteria select the teams and locations to be recorded.

Of course all of this is dependent on reasonable quality EPG data, which is the real topic of this thread.

Just some thoughts. Anyway, thanks for offering to change the Anchor Time button behaviour.

OverTheAir · « **Reply #58 on:** July 24, 2015, 08:44:26 pm »

Quote from: Yaobing on July 24, 2015, 02:43:06 pm

It must be a Microsoft issue (this also answers your other question regarding where the data come from). I can confirm that today I am only getting three days of data.

I can confirm that I too normally have about 8 days or so of EPG using the Digital Terrestrial Lineup data (zip 95135) but for about the last week or so there have been no updates and my last day of EPG data is this coming Sunday. I seem to recall in the past a similar occasion when there was what I would describe as a "very late" EPG update just 2-3 days before the last date of captured EPG data. I've tried numerous rescans, deletions of current schedules etc this time to see if anything would update but nothing so far using this data source.

contium · « **Reply #59 on:** July 25, 2015, 08:16:45 pm »

I'm having the same problem. MC says it's updating but there is no data being added. Today is my last day of channel information. Help.

thane108 · « **Reply #60 on:** July 26, 2015, 10:01:24 am »

Any progress here? I started another posting as I missed this discussion - I'm having the same issue. No data after today.

I'm a little confused - can I scrape from zap2it or has that changed?

mkloharry · « **Reply #61 on:** July 26, 2015, 10:51:58 am »

Must be Microsoft problem. My guide ends at 6:30 pm today.

muzicman0 · « **Reply #62 on:** July 26, 2015, 10:53:11 am »

Schedules Direct offers a 7 day free trial of their service.

thane108 · « **Reply #63 on:** July 26, 2015, 11:31:32 am »

Can you point me to directions for using schedule direct in JRiver?

muzicman0 · « **Reply #64 on:** July 26, 2015, 11:38:16 am »

I use MC2XML to get the xml file, and then use JRiver to import the XML file every morning at 4AM. XMLTV is an option when you are setting up the EPG in JRiver.

Once you have run MC2XML once (assuming you are on Windows), it will remember the settings, and then you can run the .exe from Windows Task Scheduler (just create a basic task, and follow the prompts).

Yaobing · « **Reply #65 on:** July 26, 2015, 12:23:33 pm »

I just tried mc2xml. It does not help. For most of my channels (those I care about anyway), it gets data only up to this evening. For some other channels (high channel numbers on Comcast lineup) it gets data up to August 7.

I was not using mc2xml option inside MC, which has a problem of its own. I used mc2xml downloaded externally and ran it manually.

mc2xml gets data from Microsoft too. So it is not surprising that the result is the same.

Yaobing · « **Reply #66 on:** July 26, 2015, 01:02:13 pm »

It appears that zap2xml is back on line.

http://zap2xml.awardspace.info/

I downloaded it and tried running it without registration at zap2it. It does not work, complaining that it was unable to log in, and that -Z option is not valid.

Will someone with zap2it registration try it?

DocLotus · « **Reply #67 on:** July 26, 2015, 01:23:11 pm »

SOOOoooo..... Basically guys we are saying that nothing is working?

Reminds me of the same problems with my days using Gypsie Media DigiGuide (the very best TV Guide program ever invented by man).

TV on a computer is a real bummer. The Guide data is all about money, money, money and every method ever used eventually failed due to greed as one by one they all pulled their support due to some company not wanting to give away anything for free or at a low reasonable cost to the public.

As a result we have always been stuck in the same rut as having to jump through hoops to make something work that does not really want to work.

I wish I had an answer to this long time, very perplexing problem but I don't see any on the near horizon until some brave company (with resources) just makes the data available for free for all to use without all the current restrictions.

But, I can only holds my breath for so long.

contium · « **Reply #68 on:** July 26, 2015, 01:34:00 pm »

I setup xmltv with schedules direct. Took me about half a day and I'm not thrilled about having to pay for guide data but my guide data now goes out to 7 days.

DocLotus · « **Reply #69 on:** July 26, 2015, 01:49:50 pm »

Hi Contium; I used Schedules Direct for several years on DigiGuide (until about 6 months ago they changed the format over & it no longer worked with DigiGuide). I will say that although I had to pay for SD it did work very well with little or no problems & I especially liked how I could turn on or off individual channels of my choosing to keep the downloads small and fast.

In JRTV do you now have more Guide information using SD such as...
* Images.
* Actors/Directors.
* 1-5 Star ratings.
* More detailed Descriptions (espcailly in movies).
* IMDB (International Movie Data Base) Data.
* Anything else that the standard Terrestrial Listing was not providing.

contium · « **Reply #70 on:** July 26, 2015, 02:00:21 pm »

Quote from: DocLotus on July 26, 2015, 01:49:50 pm

In JRTV do you now have more Guide information using SD such as...
* Images.
* Actors/Directors.
* 1-5 Star ratings.
* More detailed Descriptions (espcailly in movies).
* IMDB (International Movie Data Base) Data.
* Anything else that the standard Terrestrial Listing was not providing.

I honestly wouldn't even know were to look for that stuff. I'm a pretty basic TV user.

By terrestrial listings, do you mean those provided by the broadcaster OTA? Because when I tried that option in MC, only 1 channel provided data. I'm in Los Angeles. I would have thought at least all the majors would provide programming info.

thane108 · « **Reply #71 on:** July 26, 2015, 02:04:30 pm »

I got schedules direct working as well. Unless another solution pops up I guess I'll pay the $25. Not really that much, just the principle of the thing.

Here's what I did:

1) Create a directory where you download mc2xml.exe - make sure the directory does not require admin rights! Learned that the hard way.
2) Sign up for schedules direct and write down your user name and password.
3) Run mx2xml and select schedules direct and enter your name/password
4) The xml file with the EPG data will download to the directory you created.
5) In JRiver select Television on left menu then TV Options where Channels are listed at bottom
6) Point the run program box to mx2xml and Select load program guide then select ADD then select XMLTV
7) Then in the box under Load XMLTV results from this file browse to the directory you created and select the xmltv.xml file that you downloaded in step 4 above.

It looks like JRiver will run the mx2xml program and import the file automatically.

I hope this helps - the steps are probably outlined somewhere but I couldn't find them.

DocLotus · « **Reply #72 on:** July 26, 2015, 02:08:48 pm »

Here in Houston, TX we have 70 OTA channels & most of them had descriptions. The main problem is compared to MS WMC the Descriptions are VERY weak (short & lacking any real detail as I eluded to in my previous post).

When I was using SD (with DigiGuide) it had very robust descriptions that would pop up on screen a few minutes before the program was to start. That was pure TV Heaven.

DocLotus · « **Reply #73 on:** July 26, 2015, 02:13:22 pm »

Thane108;

THANKS for the detailed setup info. I may re-open my SD account & give it a try.

When you are looking at a TV channel on screen do you now see any more detailed descriptions than before?

thane108 · « **Reply #74 on:** July 26, 2015, 02:25:34 pm »

I'm not sure I see a difference in the amount of info.

As noted above (and below) add the following parameters to get 12 days: -d 288

rammingspeed · « **Reply #75 on:** July 26, 2015, 02:33:33 pm »

Quote from: muzicman0 on July 26, 2015, 10:53:11 am

Schedules Direct offers a 7 day free trial of their service.

If you check the SchedulesDirect site, their service is only intended for open source software. It is probably a violation of their subscription agreement.

JRiver needs to resolve the EPG issue or their customers will not have a usable data source.

thane108 · « **Reply #76 on:** July 26, 2015, 02:44:15 pm »

Muzicman0 is correct - ouch - using the data with JRiver is not consistent with SchedulesDirect service agreement.

Perhaps JRiver could negotiate an agreement and offer the data as a surcharge on the JRiver subscription price?

If not, some solution needs to be found or I'll have to go back to mediaportal (much to my regret).

muzicman0 · « **Reply #77 on:** July 26, 2015, 02:45:03 pm »

If you add a -d 288 when you call the mc2xml .exe, you can get 12 days of data.

muzicman0 · « **Reply #78 on:** July 26, 2015, 02:46:42 pm »

Quote from: thane108 on July 26, 2015, 02:44:15 pm

Muzicman0 is correct - ouch - using the data with JRiver is not consistent with SchedulesDirect service agreement.

Perhaps JRiver could negotiate an agreement and offer the data as a surcharge on the JRiver subscription price?

If not, some solution needs to be found or I'll have to go back to mediaportal (much to my regret).

So find an open source grabber.

DocLotus · « **Reply #79 on:** July 26, 2015, 03:17:58 pm »

I reopened my SD account. Did everything in the following...

Quote

1) Create a directory where you download mc2xml.exe - make sure the directory does not require admin rights! Learned that the hard way.
2) Sign up for schedules direct and write down your user name and password.
3) Run mx2xml and select schedules direct and enter your name/password
4) The xml file with the EPG data will download to the directory you created.
5) In JRiver select Television on left menu then TV Options where Channels are listed at bottom
6) Point the run program box to mx2xml and Select load program guide then select ADD then select XMLTV
7) Then in the box under Load XMLTV results from this file browse to the directory you created and select the xmltv.xml file that you downloaded in step 4 above.

It looks like JRiver will run the mx2xml program and import the file automatically.

After step 7, I'm getting the message...
"Please connect identifiers with your television channels before continuing".
I have no idea what that means. Any suggestions?

rammingspeed · « **Reply #80 on:** July 26, 2015, 03:18:41 pm »

Quote from: muzicman0 on July 26, 2015, 02:46:42 pm

So find an open source grabber.

It's not the grabber, but the commercial application using the data...

thane108 · « **Reply #81 on:** July 26, 2015, 03:28:11 pm »

DocLotus

You need to associate your channel listing in JRiver with a channel from the file you downloaded. Most channels will be linked automatically - a few won't. (PBS in my case.)

For the channels that aren't linked you select a channel with the mouse than scroll down the list of channels that pop up until you see the correct channel. Do that for each of the non-linked channels.

You only have to do it once (unless you do a setup again).

DocLotus · « **Reply #82 on:** July 26, 2015, 03:41:21 pm »

THANKS so much... that worked.

Question is why did the same error not show up before when I was running terrestrial or OTA scheduled? The channels looked the same but without the error.

DocLotus · « **Reply #83 on:** July 26, 2015, 03:44:19 pm »

One other thing, my schedules still stop at 3:00 PM today; everyone else is getting 8 days. What did I do wrong? I cleared the old schedules before running XMLTV with SD.

thane108 · « **Reply #84 on:** July 26, 2015, 03:51:10 pm »

I have 12 days - it sounds like your xml file didn't load.

You probably need to go through setup again, step by step.

DocLotus · « **Reply #85 on:** July 26, 2015, 04:20:52 pm »

I'm running the Data File xmltv.xml file. It's the only one checked in the Schedule Guide Reloading box. It must be loading as when it is not checked I get no guide & do get the guide (only through Monday at 3:00 PM) when it is checked.

When I also check the Run Executable the mc2xml.exe also runs & loads the SD downloads.

I'm not using any switches, should I?

DocLotus · « **Reply #86 on:** July 26, 2015, 04:23:15 pm »

What version is your mc2xml.exe file? Mine is 1.3.

OverTheAir · « **Reply #87 on:** July 26, 2015, 04:35:25 pm »

Well since MC apparently uses Microsoft as a source for the EPG it seems likely that what we are experiencing is the result of a Microsoft switch from Zap2It to Rovi as the EPG provider, per the various topics linked below.

http://www.thedigitalmediazone.com/2015/07/08/microsoft-breathes-new-life-into-media-center-guide/
http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8983
http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/windows-media-center-not-quite-dead-yet
http://blogs.catapultsystems.com/cfuller/archive/2015/07/22/workaround-for-no-television-guide-available-in-windows-media-center-after-july-20th-2015/

I haven't yet tested WMC to see if I can get data from the new EPG provider (Rovi) and record using WMC but that may be my fallback in the short term if it works, although even WMC users have been having issues per the linked sites. In other words I would use WMC for scheduling and recording and then import the recording into MC since I always record TV and never watch live. If that fails then its back to trying BeyondTV to do the same thing since they still provide EPG data to their old consumer customers even though they (Snapstream) long ago migrated to a business only solution.

OverTheAir · « **Reply #88 on:** July 26, 2015, 04:41:54 pm »

By the way I should have added that I am currently downloading using the MC supported over-the-air supplied EPG data but it is taking a really long time doing it. For some reason its seeing 115 channels which is twice normal (I use a dual channel HDTV card so maybe that's the reason?) If that provides adequate EPG data for my needs then I may be able to avoid reverting to WMC etc.

DocLotus · « **Reply #89 on:** July 26, 2015, 04:48:43 pm »

I had the same problem when first trying to get my channels OTA. The solution is... DON'T USE OTA; it takes forever.

In stead, use the... Download EPG Automatically (recommended), Use Digital Terrestrial Lineup.

It runs real fast & gives you the information that you are looking for.

OverTheAir · « **Reply #90 on:** July 26, 2015, 04:56:39 pm »

@Doc Thanks for the suggestion but that is what I was doing, i.e. using the Digital Terrestrial Lineup ... until the data/data source went missing in action

DocLotus · « **Reply #91 on:** July 26, 2015, 05:06:52 pm »

Quote

One other thing, my schedules still stop at 3:00 PM tomorrow; everyone else is getting 8 days. What did I do wrong? I cleared the old schedules before running XMLTV with SD.

I very carefully watched the SD downloads as they were happening & the two day only download is coming from SD as it shows only two days for the download.

EXACTLY where do I add the -d 288 to the mc2xml file? I have tried various locations for the switch but it always bombs.

thane108 · « **Reply #92 on:** July 26, 2015, 06:07:12 pm »

Doc - you put that code in JRiver. The same screen where you tell it to run mc2xml - the same screen where you tell it where the xml file is located.

Look at the screen and you will see a space to send the code.

Let me know if you can't find it.

That said, I got 7 days without the code, not 3, or I'm a little suspicious that the code isn't the issue. If entering the codes doesn't fix it, let's take a look at how you setup within JRiver.

DocLotus · « **Reply #93 on:** July 26, 2015, 07:10:23 pm »

THANK YOU SOOOoooo MUCH.

"Pass these command line arguments to the executable"

How I ever missed that one is beyond me; and I'm an ex programmer with 20 years experience (must be my age catching up with me).

Works like a charm... am getting 14 days now.

By the way, to answer my own earlier question about additional Description information using XMLTV, I can happily report that YES, there is more Description information showing up than there was with Digital Terrestrial Lineup...

* SD has 84 OTA channels listed for Houston, TX whereas Digital Terrestrial Lineup only showed 69.

* Several channels that were blank under Digital Terrestrial Lineup now has Descriptions with SD.

* There are now a few actors listed whereas there were none before.

* Movies seem to have a little more information.

Now to figure out how to add 1-5 Star ratings, Episode numbers, AND possibly images.

Anyway, it's getting there & I can sleep tonight knowing that things are looking up.

I always liked SD in the past & this experience fortifies that belief as SD is worth the money for the added features alone.

thane108 · « **Reply #94 on:** July 26, 2015, 07:15:02 pm »

Congrats, Doc!

DocLotus · « **Reply #95 on:** July 26, 2015, 07:29:53 pm »

Yep, I'm a Happy Camper now.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #96 on:** July 26, 2015, 08:06:10 pm »

Quote from: rammingspeed on July 26, 2015, 02:33:33 pm

If you check the SchedulesDirect site, their service is only intended for open source software. It is probably a violation of their subscription agreement.

JRiver needs to resolve the EPG issue or their customers will not have a usable data source.

Schedules Direct have said in the past that they won't support commercial programs. Ever. In fact SD was created with that specific intent by people who got sick of the commercial EPG merry-go-round. Their history is on-line if anyone is interested.

So don't tell SD that you are using their data with MC.

Of course, when WMC finally dies, and Microsoft stop providing any EPG of any sort in the not so distant future, that may change for SD. Also, SD changed their data provider not so long ago, so nothing is certain really.

This isn't really a JRiver problem either. After all, JRiver can't provide the EPG data, they can only provide access to data someone else is providing, and that supplier needs to be willing to let them collect it. In the past, organisations providing EPG data in the US and elsewhere have wanted enormous amounts of money for it, as they are basically owned by or affiliated with broadcasters. Providers also didn't want to deal with the great unwashed mass on the public, so someone else had to buy their data at great cost, and then share it out to the masses, and deal with all the issues and whingeing that involves. It is a high risk, low reward activity, which is why commercial organisations don't want to do it.

Hence, a non-commercial organisation, Schedules Direct, did it in America. Which is why they don't want any commercial software using their data.

You guys in America and Canada think you have it bad? You have had it great for years, and just didn't know it.

In Australia a small company had to fight a legal battle all the way up to the High Court to have the right to publish an EPG, and charge for it. The broadcasters said they owned the data, and didn't want anyone else to have it. Let's face it, they just want the great unwashed masses to watch TV, regardless of the rubbish being shown, or if it is repeat after repeat. They don't really want you to know which Season and Episode is going to be shown, because they don't want you to be able to plan your time and only watch stuff that you want to watch.

A little research of the EPG situation in Europe (particularly Germany), England, and the rest of the world will show that almost nobody has easy access to good quality EPG data. I don't know of any country or region that has had it better than those served by Microsoft, in support of WMC. Certainly Australia has never had a Microsoft supplied EPG.

Maybe everybody reading this should get rid of their Apple products and support a company that has been supporting you without payment or thanks.

Sorry, that was a bit of a rant. EPG has caused a lot of angst for me, and lots of other Australians.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #97 on:** July 26, 2015, 08:20:51 pm »

PS: If you are using ZAP2XML, make a donation to John Douglas, the guy who created and maintains it.

I have, and I can't even use his data. But he did add some functionality I requested, which supported the case for MC to support xmltv_ns formatted Season and Episode numbering, which has since been implemented.

Thanks in advance. I am sure John will thank you too. It is always good to support the guys that provide these very useful utilities.

DocLotus · « **Reply #98 on:** July 26, 2015, 09:22:21 pm »

Right on, RoderickGI.

I completely agree. EPG has caused a lot of angst for me too. I really hate all the money wrangling that goes on with the broadcasters. They totally killed DigiGuide in the US. The amount of greed is unbelievable.

thane108 · « **Reply #99 on:** July 26, 2015, 10:30:07 pm »

Roderick - good rant - that said many of us are quite willing to pay the $25 to SD. We aren't bad people.

If I have to, I'll migrate back to mediaportal. That said, it just doesn't make sense to me. JRiver is more polished, so the small fee is justified from my perspecitive.

Why should anyone care if I choose to pay JRiver over free mediaportal.

I don't get it.

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Author Topic: EPG (Read 76959 times)