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[lendall]

The digital world is really not set up for classical music.  Everything is a "song," and "songs" you download have names like "1 Allegro" and "2 Adagio."  Unless I renamed tracks I would have several hundred of each of these, and it would be impossible to tell them apart.  One problem is that most online databases use the "Artist" field for the composer, although this is not consistent. So, where do the performers go?  The other, and perhaps larger, issue is that the majority of classical pieces have multiple movements, the origin of the "1 Allegro" problem.  Even worse is that long works without movements are often broken up into very small chunks with names along the lines of "Five measures after Number 53."  When I first started ripping CDs I did not let this bother me; the scrambling of movements was kind of fun, or so I pretended.  But when the movements were forty seconds long, or when "Five measures after Number 53" began and ended in medias res with cymbal crashes, the novelty wore thin.  I tried using the cue track function to join tracks, but honestly, this is not ideal. 

After a while I developed a system: I would rip CDs in Media Center temporarily, load them into Audacity to "splice" them, then export them from Audacity in whatever format I wanted (FLAC or OGG).  Then I would import these into MC, remembering to re-do the analysis function since the analysis that was correct for one movement would not be correct for the entire piece.  Finally I would delete the individual movements from my computer.  A rather time-intensive process.

Then I started using Any Video Converter software for various DVD functions (e..g., subtitling), and discovered that this software has a "rip as one file" function for CDs.  I started using this, and it seems to work more or less okay, and one has many options as to codec and bitrate.  I suspect that the quality may not be as good as on MC, one reason being that Any Video Converter rips and encodes all at once.  I also wonder if their codecs are up to date.  (This on top of other concerns I have about that company and its software which I will not go into here.)

This is all to say that in my opinion a sophisticated, high-end "rip as one file" function (as opposed to the current cue track function) would be a very valuable addition to MC21, particularly for those of us who listen primarily to classical music.

[adamt]

Have you tried?
[Options > CD, DVD, & BD > File Management > Rip to a single file with cue rather than separate files]

Does this work, or am I misunderstanding the request?

[blgentry]

If you are the kind of listener that likes the categorization of classical music, you should do some reading on how JRiver can be used to organize classical music.  There isn't a single answer for doing this correctly as far as I know.  But the beauty is that JRiver can store LOTS of information about each song.  For example, by default, the Library has fields for Composer, Conductor, Orchestra, and Soloists.  You can fill those fields out for the songs to add data to them that makes it much easier to search and sort the way you want to.

Because JRiver's library is easily customizable, you can also add your own fields.  For example you could add Work, Movement, Period, or any other data field you wanted.

I've read several forum postings and articles on doing this.  It seems like a lot of work to do it.  But, once it's done, you gain some really nice flexibility for sorting and searching classical music.  Look at the screen shot here of what one member has done:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=86996.msg595484#msg595484

Here's the wiki entry on classical music that has links to some relevant threads:

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Tagging_Classical_Music

I don't have any concrete advice to offer, but maybe this will give you some good ideas.

Brian.

[leezer3]

Have you tried?
[Options > CD, DVD, & BD > File Management > Rip to a single file with cue rather than separate files]

Does this work, or am I misunderstanding the request?

As I understand the OP, yes and no
The track information on the CD is *useless* to him, as these disks are in effect one continuous track, with arbitrary points added into them for the track boundaries.

Using this option will produce a single audio file, but the CUE will still contain the incorrect (unwanted) track information.

To get to the desired endpoint therefore, you'd need to rip using this option, and *then* delete the CUE file before importing the FLAC into the library.

IMHO it shouldn't be hard to add an option to rip to a single file and not create the CUE sheet to go with it
I also very much see the attraction- I've got much the same problem with audiobooks, although I just tend to ignore the proliferation of files.

-Leezer-

[BillT]

The digital world is really not set up for classical music.

That is very true.

As a long time user of JRiver, listening to classical music 99% of the time, I think you should use the glory of JRiver, its' database.

Tagging the files suitably and making views to suit your usage will let you get the result you want without having to bolt all tracks into one unwieldy lump. See bigentrys links for some ideas. JRiver gapless playback allows you to play a continuous work that has internal track markers as intended, without a break.

I have tags for Composer, Work, Key, Opus no, Orchestra, Soloists and 2 extra sub genres. These let me set up various views, so I can easily select pieces in many ways. The original CD, using a tree structure made with genres. If I want a specific work I have a Composer/Work view which lets me quickly get to any piece I want to play,

It's a lot of work initially, but probably not much more than your system and is much more versatlile.

[JimH]

The wiki has a couple of links:

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Tagging_Classical_Music

[Arindelle]

That is very true.

As a long time user of JRiver, listening to classical music 99% of the time, I think you should use the glory of JRiver, its' database.

Tagging the files suitably and making views to suit your usage will let you get the result you want without having to bolt all tracks into one unwieldy lump.

I have also spent a lot of time classifying and retagging my classical collection. Although I don't listne to classical music all of the time, I do have a couple thousand classical cds and multiple recordings of the same work.

I really, really recommend NOT lobbing all your music in one file .. there is very little you can do with this later. There just is no classical tagging standard .. and unless the tag is totally crap it is not just 1. adagio. Rather it has much too much information in the track name field. Luckily thanks to JRiver's tools, this information can be broken down "reasonably painlessly". So you have to make your standard and be consistent about it. When (or rather if) a metadata standard  is reached and available while ripping -- then you will be able to convert or remap your fields. You won't be able to do this having one large file or any metadata based on cue files IMMHO for that matter (I'm adding an M so in my MOST humble of opinions for what its worth). This standard will NOT be consistent with what you automatically download of course and as BillT said it takes some work ... but when you have it set up it great to know who is singing that aria; to be able to compare three versions of just  the 3rd Brandenburg concerto, or explore early renaissance polyphony on the fly via your custom view.

Lobbing this in one file will make this, arguably,  impossible. If the OP responds and is interested, I can give some examples of what not to do (what to do is your choice I don't separate opus from work due to the size of my collection for eg.), there are a bunch of post here and on the internet of tagging models for classical music already.

[astromo]

That is very true.

As a long time user of JRiver, listening to classical music 99% of the time, I think you should use the glory of JRiver, its' database.

Tagging the files suitably and making views to suit your usage will let you get the result you want without having to bolt all tracks into one unwieldy lump. See bigentrys links for some ideas. JRiver gapless playback allows you to play a continuous work that has internal track markers as intended, without a break.

I have tags for Composer, Work, Key, Opus no, Orchestra, Soloists and 2 extra sub genres. These let me set up various views, so I can easily select pieces in many ways. The original CD, using a tree structure made with genres. If I want a specific work I have a Composer/Work view which lets me quickly get to any piece I want to play,

It's a lot of work initially, but probably not much more than your system and is much more versatlile.

Couple that with Particles and there's some pretty handy flexibility

[lendall]

Thanks for all of these comments.  I do use the MC tagging features, which are great.  I have created some custom tagging fields of my own and set them to be encoded inside the tracks.  I have become slightly sophisticated about these things, largely thanks to help I have received here in the support forum.

But my main point remains:  90% of the the time I would prefer to have all movements of a classical piece in a single file.  If a string quartet lasts fifteen minutes I would rather have one fifteen minute track than three five minute tracks, and listen to the work as a whole, as the composer intended.  Then when I sync the music to my phone, it is also there in the same format.  Exceptions are few:  Mahler symphonies (but not always).  Operas, but generally I want these broken into acts, not into individual arias (or whatever) as they are generally presented on CDs. 

So, honestly, I do believe that the "rip as single file" (in addition to the cue track system) would be a good addition to MC.  If Any Video Converter (which is free, provided you are careful when you install it not to agree to the junk they want you to download with it) can do it, why can't MC?  Again this is not something that would be a default, just an option.  People who like to listen to scrambled movements and forty second fragments of large works would still be able to do so, and people who think the cue track procedure is the best solution for them would be able to continue to use it.

My two cents worth.  And again, thanks to MC for the great tagging and other features which vastly assist in the organization of my ever-expanding music library.

[ferday]

It's already there, read adamt's post

[Listener]

Thanks for all of these comments.  I do use the MC tagging features, which are great.  I have created some custom tagging fields of my own and set them to be encoded inside the tracks.  I have become slightly sophisticated about these things, largely thanks to help I have received here in the support forum.

But my main point remains:  90% of the the time I would prefer to have all movements of a classical piece in a single file. 
...
My two cents worth.  And again, thanks to MC for the great tagging and other features which vastly assist in the organization of my ever-expanding music library.

I have not found a need for joining all the tracks on a CD for playback on a PC.    I usually select a sub_genre then a Composer, then a Work Name, then an Artist.  If I have several versions, I select a version.  At that point, I have a list og the tracks making up the performance. The file list is sorted by Composer, then Work Name, then Artist, then Track #.  If I click on play, the tracks are played in correct order.

I do find uses for laying single movements of a work.  Sometimes I'll listen to a performance and then wonder "How did some other artist perform the last movement?"  A couple of clicks takes me to that other performance and I right-click on the file with the last movement and choose play.

Your arguments reflect a lack of understanding of MC.  I think that all the people who responded in this thread listen to entire works most of the time and we do it without any problems.

I did have some problems to solve in putting a subset of my collection onto a 80 GB iPod (a model with a click wheel just before the classic.)  That iPod didn't provide a fully effective view for browsing and selecting classical music.  The solution was to join the tracks for a work and to place Composer, work name and artist in tags in a special way that fit the iPods limitations.

I used Foobar2000 to join the tracks in a work. It did not transfer tag information so I had to re-tag the files.  Since i intended to place a large subset of the files  on my iPod once and leave it alone, this was an acceptable one-time effort.  I have since copied those files onto a USB stick also for use in my car.

I think that an option to join tracks would be more useful that a rip to a single file option.

I'd recommend that you go slow with ripping entire CDs to a single file.  (For starters, classical CDs often have more than one work.  A decent implementation would allow you to specify which tracks to combine.)   I can't imagione that you would want to permanently combine several works into one file.  MC has lots of powerful features to accomplish what you want to do.  You clearly don't fully understand all the relevant features yet.