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[skarsol]

I'm trying to tag video files in folders that contain 10-30 files each. I am doing this on a client connected to a remote Library Server. I saw the behavior in 20, so I just upgraded to 21 and it's still doing it. I've duplicated it multiple times.

My process:
Enter folder (through Files view)
Start tagging files (Add Series, add Season, fill Episode with =counter())
Get Movie and TV Info for one file (to confirm it gets the right tvdb series id)
Get Movie and TV Info for all files.

Sometimes (30-50% of the time), somewhere in there it will reset all my changes. This typically occurs about the time I'm trying to get the info for all files. If it happens before, it will bark that it only works if Episode and Season are set. If it happens during, only some of the files will get looked up successfully on the client. Checking on the server I confirm that no tags were applied. If I wait, the client will eventually drop all changes to reflect the reality on the server. Eventually my changes will "stick" and I can successfully finish tagging the files and move on to the next one.

Is there some process going on that is updating the files on the client from the info on the server at the same time as I'm trying to edit the tags?

[Arindelle]

this happens to me a bunch if I take a lot of time tagging.  What I do to make sure this doesn't happen is on a long tagging session turn off the auto sync option under Network client options. It goes way back before version 20 btw.  I think there would be too much traffic if it synced in real time. So I think when it does sync and some tags are in limbo eg still in the tag window, it will write the server info over your changes. You aren't really writing directly to the library, you are loading a temporary "image" of the actual library, I guess you could say and the sync goes both ways

When you are done, go File library=>sync changes to library server. You wont have any lost changes that way. (note: I only do this for audio files, but it should be the same for video too, although they are sidecar files. Careful though, if you shut down the client and have to re-start it you will lose your edits.

Remember to re-check the auto-sync when you are done though.

[skarsol]

I'm not taking a lot of time though. Maybe 20 seconds for the whole process in any given folder? Tag the whole folder with the series name. Tag the whole folder with the season. Tag the whole folder with Episode =counter(). Do the tvdb lookups.

When it does the rollback, I've never seen it effect a previous folder, only the one I'm currently in.

Edit:
Blah, just now doing a 3 Season folder it managed to reset files in the middle of the run. Season 1 kept its Name, Season 2 episodes 1-9 kept their Name, episodes 10-62 reverted, and episodes 63-78 kept theirs, and all of Season 3 reverted. They kept the new Season and Episode numbers though. They all were named properly on the client for a period of time, then it adjusted to match the server.

[Arindelle]

I'm not taking a lot of time though. Maybe 20 seconds for the whole process in any given folder? Tag the whole folder with the series name. Tag the whole folder with the season. Tag the whole folder with Episode =counter(). Do the tvdb lookups.

When it does the rollback, I've never seen it effect a previous folder, only the one I'm currently in.

maybe so, just happens when the sync happens, if it time to sync and you are on a website copying info, if the tag window is open you'll loose stuff. Not sure what triggers it or if it every so many minutes .. I know that is the only way I've gotten around this since version 15 or 16 or so ... the price one pays for speed me thinks

[skarsol]

maybe so, just happens when the sync happens, if it time to sync and you are on a website copy info, if the tag window is open you'll loose stuff. Not sure what triggers it or if it every so many minutes .. I know that is the only way I've gotten around this since version 15 or 16 or so ... the price one pays for speed me thinks

So is this officially "Working as Intended" then?

Edit:
So I ran Get Movie and TV Info on the episodes 10-62 that reverted in one batch. All episodes got the correct name on the client. Episodes 10-28 made it to the server, 29-62 did not and thus eventually reverted on the client. Do it one more time on the remaining files got everything to the server. Super annoying.

[RoderickGI]

You should really report that as a bug in the MC21 release thread: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=99729.0

I'm pretty sure when a MC Client is opened, the whole Server library is copied to the Client.

However, once a Client is connected to the Server, synchronisation should happen at the record level, and any record that has been modified on the Client should be marked as protected from overwriting until it has been synchronised to the Server. I'm not sure the MC's Client Server implementation does that, but it should. Maybe something has been broken at some time.

[Arindelle]

You should really report that as a bug in the MC21 release thread: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=99729.0

I'm pretty sure when a MC Client is opened, the whole Server library is copied to the Client.

Yes, I think so ... in a way thats sort of a temporary "virtual" file right? this is why, if you shut down auto-sync and you forget to manually sync, your changes will be over-written on re-connect.

However, once a Client is connected to the Server, synchronisation should happen at the record level, and any record that has been modified on the Client should be marked as protected from overwriting until it has been synchronised to the Server. I'm not sure the MC's Client Server implementation does that, but it should. Maybe something has been broken at some time.

I'd like confirmation of this if true on the client side ... its definitely is on the server side... I think it more or less works that way for a client, but it is all the "records" that one has selected, one track, one albums worth or even one album artists worth of records. It is my understanding that this virtual library file that is loaded, allows for a lot of speed for really big collections and reduced network access, as well the ability to protect the server library when multiple clients are syncing too it (ie. updating playback stats on one client and someone retagging on another.)

Once the tag window info is confirmed, and/or something else is selected, I'm hoping you are right - it appears to be protected, (euh, most of the time, but I don't trust it )this could take more than two minutes, sometimes a lot more. . If you happening to be listening or zapping through what you are currently tagging and the track changes, this also could be a trigger.

Some examples of where I can reproduce this overwriting  ... I select all tracks on a 5-CD opera ... I then use my link bar go to various websites, add the orchestra add the "work" name, original recording date, and the soloists and if they are singing mezzo-soprano, and the roles they are singing ..  Another example is when I add a new album of a group I already have music, I use those "magic arrows to flip to another view that will show them all, I might use pane tagging to change all or just make the new addition the same .... all of these changes take more time than usual, and can be overwritten in my experience. 

On the server side these records are always protected, but the reason for tagging from a client is that you are using your TV or are running headless, so little/no admin is done on on its library directly.  If you happening to be listening or zapping through what you are currently tagging and the track changes, this also could be a trigger. It could happen periodically after a certain period of time, if nothing else happens too, not sure. This could explain why one little thing that you just changed gets over-written by the server data. There are a bunch of posts on this if you dig, but I've never read any confirmation on how this actually works.

I'm running Media server with DLNA options running, and I often listen to what I'm tagging at the same time, for info. This is as I said not new, I have been using this manual sync at least since version 16 to avoid this. I just don't think its broken ... maybe its a compromise that doesn't affect most people? I'd be very interested to know what triggers the sync and how its set-up to work via the clients 

[glynor]

I think if you can come up with clear If This Then Thats for what triggers the issue, that they'll probably look at it. I know Hendrik was going to be digging about in the client/server sync details anyway (as he said he was going to try to fix this, thankfully).

I think I've seen this kind of thing once in a great while, but certainly not regularly. I do lots of tagging from client copies of MC.

One potential thing that could, maybe, have an impact? I keep Update for external changes in files disabled on my server in Auto-Import settings. Could that maybe play a part in whether you see this regularly?

[skarsol]

I do have Update for external changes enabled on the server; looks like that's the default. Only the Server should (can) be making external changes though as the client doesn't have access to the physical files (everything gets streamed). I can certainly turn that off and see if it has any effect (although I'm done tagging for right now). As these are video files, it would only be checking the sidecar files for changes, right?

[glynor]

Yeah. I'm guessing.

I can say, I do tagging (of videos) regularly from a client, and I don't see this. So something is different.  However, I think vaguely that I have seen it before, rarely, but I'm not positive and I've been unable to reproduce it.

But I can see, maybe, a path where Auto-Import and the Update for External Changes option (which is default but I have off) could be fighting with client-side tagging changes, if they're slow for some reason.  It shouldn't but I have that off, and it kinda makes sense, so... Maybe?

By the way, when you apply tags from a client, the server does the actual tagging, so tags in files (or sidecars) do still get updates even without direct access to the files.

[gvanbrunt]

I've seen this a long time ago, but it may have been fixed. Since I had issues I've never tried doing on the client for quite some time.

Given what Glynor says, I'll start doing on the client again and see if I run into issues. If I do perhaps there is something unique to our setups.

Don't have any tagging to do for a while, but will let you know when I do.

[Arindelle]

I think if you can come up with clear If This Then Thats for what triggers the issue, that they'll probably look at it. I know Hendrik was going to be digging about in the client/server sync details anyway (as he said he was going to try to fix this, thankfully).

I think I've seen this kind of thing once in a great while, but certainly not regularly. I do lots of tagging from client copies of MC.

One potential thing that could, maybe, have an impact? I keep Update for external changes in files disabled on my server in Auto-Import settings. Could that maybe play a part in whether you see this regularly?

Sure, that might have something to do with it.  I DO have this enabled and I really like that I can for other reasons, also I use mapped drives (lettered network paths) rather than UNC paths, for info... would memory playback have any influence on this? probably not

Frankly I'm so used to doing tagging this way (taking off auto-sync and/or manually syncing) that I'm used to it. If a "fix" would mean slowing down the lan with more look-ups, or intermittent "lags" during playback/zapping I'd rather it stays as it is. Be nice to be able to make a short-cut for this though.

One little observation:  through  normal playback, sometimes when auto-sync is on even playback stats don't get written by the server. Seems to be more often with short songs, intros etc.