INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => JRiver Media Center 21 for Windows => Topic started by: SamuriHL on January 11, 2016, 12:40:53 pm
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[Edit February 17, 2016 by jmone -- Blu-ray 3D Support is has been added
[Edit January 26, 2016 by jmone -- 3D Support is currently Under Development and is not yet part of the Stable MC Release. This thread is for those that like to test and provide feedback on this development. This development work is being done by madshi (madVR), and Hendrik (LAV Filters). It will only work if you have Windows 8.1 or Windows 10. It's "close" but expect bugs... and pls provide feedback on what you find (and potential logs when stuff does not work). At present it only works with MVC Encoded MKV's. These are "ripped" from 3D BD using MakeMKV (though there have been discussion on also supporting native BD 3D at a later stage)]
[Edit January 26, 2016 by JimH -- Please see jmone's notes on installing (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=102539.msg713920#msg713920). ]
I know there have been a few topics on 3D in the past, but, I feel that given the work that's going on with madVR and LAV Filters, it might be time to revisit this topic from the perspective of MC. I've yet to even try playing around yet, as I just got back from a 2 week vacation, but plan on looking at it tonight. Are there plans to integrate this support into MC once it's developed a little bit further? I would LOVE to start playing 3D MKV's in MC...it'd negate my need for any other player completely which would seriously rock. Anyway, just looking to see what the status of this is in terms of MC and whether this is planned to be supported at some point. Thanks!!
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It is only when I play MVC encoded MKVs that I have MC automatically launch Stereoscopic Player.
Are you saying that the latest work on MadVR and LAV supports 3D ?
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I am. Hence the topic. I want to know if MC will be able to start playing 3D MKV's using LAV and madVR once they mature a bit more (if needed...I've not even tried it yet so I can't say if any more work is needed to shore up support or not). If so, it will be a HUGE boon to me as I encode everything as MKV and only use the licensed players for 3D. If I can start adding my 3D collection to my library in MC, I'll be super happy. And yes, I know about stereoscopic player but that isn't what I considered an ideal solution.
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I know there have been a few topics on 3D in the past, but, I feel that given the work that's going on with madVR and LAV Filters, it might be time to revisit this topic from the perspective of MC. I've yet to even try playing around yet, as I just got back from a 2 week vacation, but plan on looking at it tonight. Are there plans to integrate this support into MC once it's developed a little bit further? I would LOVE to start playing 3D MKV's in MC...it'd negate my need for any other player completely which would seriously rock. Anyway, just looking to see what the status of this is in terms of MC and whether this is planned to be supported at some point. Thanks!!
Greetings:
I will be in real trouble with MC's power to be if I ever make any more noise regarding 3D support, both in the Windows Platform and the Linux platform. I have no use for third party 3D players. I will love to watch 3D movies within MC.
VI am really enjoying MC for Linux, each time a new version comes out, I make the sign of the cross to see if 3D support and Theater View (Eye Candy) integrations are now available. I guess I will be dreaming for a long time on these two topics.
Thanks.
George
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Greetings:
I will be in real trouble with MC's power to be if I ever make any more noise regarding 3D support, both in the Windows Platform and the Linux platform. I have no use for third party 3D players. I will love to watch 3D movies within MC.
VI am really enjoying MC for Linux, each time a new version comes out, I make the sign of the cross to see if 3D support and Theater View (Eye Candy) integrations are now available. I guess I will be dreaming for a long time on these two topics.
Thanks.
George
So far this won't work on linux as it requires D3D11 which limits it to windows 8.1 and above. The fact that this is being done at all is super exciting. I'm going to mess around with installing the versions of lav filters and madVR I need to enable the support and then see if MC will play a 3D MKV. Right now, support in LAV is limited to MKV *ONLY* as they work everything out. I suspect at some point this will be opened up to m2ts support, as well. For me personally, MKV support is perfect for what I need. Once it's completely stable, I'd suspect that MC will get it by default simply by virtue of getting updated LAV and madVR. I wanted to open this topic up for advanced users that are looking at trying it. I'll be doing that tonight when I get a chance.
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Had a quick play copying in the new binaries in the Plugins folder without any luck and some twiddling of OS settings.
Not a big user of 3D but I love seeing the Feature set continue to get developed!
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Are you using an MKV 3d rip?
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MKVs ripped from 3D Blu-ray with MakeMKV are the only format that works in the current pre-release version of LAV. Make sure to select the 3D sub-track in MakeMKV when doing such a rip.
Playing the .ssif files directly from a BD structure will probably be supported in the future, however due to current limitations in the Blu-ray handling, likely not quite as complete as the 2D things (ie. only when opening the .ssif directly, not when opening the .bdmv file for title navigation)
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If I can start adding my 3D collection to my library in MC, I'll be super happy.
My 3D's are all in my JR MC collection, MKV encoded. It is only if they are MVC frame packed that I automatically launch Stereoscopic Player from MC (AFAIK the only Windows player supporting MVC encoded MKVs).
I gave those MVC frame packed files a .mk3d extension, the SBS and OU have a standard .mkv extension (as for MC SBS and OU are standard video files).
I use the "Playback Info" tag (that I found none of my MKV used) in the following fashion:
- Playback Info=2D --> play directly in MC
- Playback Info=3D SBS --> play directly in MC
- Playback Info=3D OU --> play directly in MC
- Playback Info=3D MVC --> auto launch Stereoscopic Player directly with the filename and the right arguments for frame packed. From memory, in Options/File Types, for .mk3d filetype I use custom program, pointing to Stereoscopic Player, and with the argument '-file:"[Filename]" -il:FrameSequentialLF -ol:AMD'
Now my life is simpler ;) However, JR menus are odd when seen in SBS mode through the glasses, need to get used to...
I have a custom view for movies where "Playback Info" starts with "2D" and another view for the ones where "Playback Info" starts with "3D".
Net result ? Different views for 2D vs 3D, playback of SBS and OU requires telling the projector the right mode, and in case of frame packed MVC the projector auto detects and JRiver automatically launch Stereoscopic Player with the right parameters.
edit: Hendrik responded while I was writing. Glad to see soon I will not need Stereoscopic Player anymore, as I rip using MakeMKV ;D
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Had a longer play using a MC's "Custom video mode settings..." and a Beta LAV Install. Found of bunch of way that it does not work with either crashes, video running twice the speed, or alternating black frames. Not found a way to do it right yet....
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I don't really watch 3D movies for the sole reason it's a pain to get everything started. Playing it inside MC would actually make 3D useful for me again. Would love to know how to get this set up.
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I'm sure it will be "simple" and integrated nicely into MC in the not too distant future when all the bugs are sorted out. In the mean time we are just playing around with the first release.
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I've not been successful in getting it to work so far. I'm using my nVidia video card and when I enable 3D in the nVidia control panel (or Windows' display settings) it simply crashes when I try to play a movie...3D or not. When I turn off 3D mode I can play everything fine in 2D. I believe the DLL is loading properly (I moved it into the path...don't ask) so I'm not sure what's wrong to be quite honest. It should be working.
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Very excited by this. I can finally rip my ISOs to mkv and ditch ArcSoft. I'll wait until it's got the kinks worked out, because there's no point fighting it at this point.
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It's not an MC problem in my case, at least. Something else is going on. I'll post over in madVR thread and see if I can get it sorted.
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Yeah same here with the crashes. If you "reset" the MadVR settings then it will not crash, I then started re-enabling stuff and for me it is the D3D11 mode that seems to cause the crash.
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And obviously it needs d3d11 to work so that's of no help to us.
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Based on some of the discussions over on the Doom9 forums I think the D3D11 mode crashes are related to NVidia.
Hopefully I'll get time tonight to play around with installing the new lav filters and MadVR in MC with my R9 270x and see how that works or maybe with my Surface Pro..
If I do get a chance I'll be sure to pass on my results.
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Does 3D playback use more memory?
JRiver would crash as soon as I played 4K files until I reduced the queue size because it's a 32-bit player.
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MKVs ripped from 3D Blu-ray with MakeMKV are the only format that works in the current pre-release version of LAV. Make sure to select the 3D sub-track in MakeMKV when doing such a rip.
Playing the .ssif files directly from a BD structure will probably be supported in the future, however due to current limitations in the Blu-ray handling, likely not quite as complete as the 2D things (ie. only when opening the .ssif directly, not when opening the .bdmv file for title navigation)
Well done, Hendrik (and madshi) for getting this far! Thank you!
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Very happy in the UK ;o)
At the moment SBS was my only option meaning reduced resolution.
I assume any 3D movies i have on Bluray just need ripping with MakeMKV and they will play automatically with the latest version of Lav?
You guys are great!
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It's still in testing right now. Some of us are having some problems getting it to work on nVidia machines. I've got it so that lav splitter is splitting it properly, lav video is using the intel decoder correctly, and madVR is not currently outputting 3D. I've verified that madVR is at least using the D3D11 path which is good. 3D is enabled in the Windows 10 display settings. So it should be working. Hopefully I'll be able to play around with it more tonight. We'll see.
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Well done, Hendrik (and madshi) for getting this far! Thank you!
Yes, thanks to you/them both.
Will test with my nVidia systems as soon as Hendrik gives the go-ahead.
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Cross post from madVR Thread. Has anyone got it working with MC yet as I'm stumped
Thanks
Nathan
Still no luck on 3D (Win10 64-Bit, nVidia 660Ti):
- Installed LAV latest nightly (but still need to copy the DLL to the Windows Directory) - setting reset
- Reset madVR to default (but turned off Exclusive Mode)
- Uninstalled the nVidia 3D Play & 3D Player App
- Rebooted and did the nVidia 3D Setup just fine.
When I:
- Turn on 3D in Win 10 panel the TV / Glasses go into 3D
- Play MKV 3D and will get SBS output if using D3D9
- Play MKV 3D and will get MC Crashing if using D3D11
Some info in the Ctrl+J OSD would really help!
Thanks
Nathan
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Nope. Haven't had any success at all. Using the latest nightly of LAV, as well. Tried 64 bit MPC-HC, as well. Nothing works so far.
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Are people having any luck with AMD ?
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Haven't had a chance to test it yet. Hopefully tonight I'll test it with Intel and if that works then I'll try using AMD on my HTPC.
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Ok just tested on AMD R9 270x. It works sort of. It enables 3D mode on my projector and my projector says it is receiving frame packed 3D but there is no 3D depth. It's almost like the depth adjustment setting is at 0.
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Cross post from madVR
I think I've found the 3D issue for me in MC and it has something to do with "Bookmarks" and how playback is commenced (100% repeatable):
- If I play the 3D MKV from the beginning it works.
- If I seek while playing it works.
- If I double stop (reset book mark) then playback will commence from the beginning and 3D works
- If I stop/play (so playback commences from where I left off and not from the begining) it will go to SBS / using D3D9. If I try to force D3D11 in the madVR Settings it will crash MC.
My test setup was as simple as I could get it:
- Fresh install of madVR with default settings (but Windows Exclusive unchecked) No other changes
- Put Win 10 64-Bit Desktop into 3D
- Put the nVidia Control Panel into 1080/23hz/3D (so no switching is required by madVR)
- Commence playback testing
Thanks
Nathan
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Got 3D working in jriver mc using amd r9 270x. I needed to install crimson 16.1 hotfix, latest MadVR and LAV. The other thing I had to do in my projector is swap which eye comes first from "normal" to "swapped".
At first the video was a bit jerky but once I reduced all the scaling algorithms to no more than about super-xbr 100 or was fine.
Start and stop behaviour is the same as what jmone describes.
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This is exciting news. I may upgrade from Windows 7 to 10 just for this.
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Got 3D working in jriver mc using amd r9 270x. I needed to install crimson 16.1 hotfix, latest MadVR and LAV. The other thing I had to do in my projector is swap which eye comes first from "normal" to "swapped".
At first the video was a bit jerky but once I reduced all the scaling algorithms to no more than about super-xbr 100 or was fine.
Start and stop behaviour is the same as what jmone describes.
Just an update on the need to swap which eye is needed first.
I check the 3D mkv's in through my Mede8er and they had to be swapped there as well, so either it is because I created them with an older version of MakeMKV or they are encoded that way in the bluray.
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Which version of lav do I need to try this out? Anything else I need to know to get 3D working. My PCs NVIDIA 980ti
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FYI - It under dev at present and while not ready for prime time just yet it is getting closer. If you want to test you will need both the latest madVR Version, and the LAV Nightly from the doom 9 threads.
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doesnt work for me. 3D doesn't get enabled when i launch a 3D movie ripped using Make MKV. I have enabled check box in Madvr stereo 3d settings.
Anything else i need to do?
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i have just went through the Nvidia 3D setup and everything works perfectly.
Amazing stuff guys 3D auto switching works as well my LG oled sees the 3D signal and changes and when stop playback goes back to 2D
Thanks for adding this brilliant feature.
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FYI - Latest versions of madVR and LAV are coming on nicely and it is much more stable. Also works with Videoclock and Display Rate changing just fine.
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I can't wait to try this and I hope it works so I can stop having to use PowerDVD through JRiver's WDM Driver!
It's not like that's bad on a HTPC; just cumbersome.
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Still no 3D for me in MC21 TV switches desktop switches but 3D films still 2D!
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In the doom9 forum there's a report that with MC the video only shows in 3D when the MC OSD is visible, but goes back to 2D when you hide the OSD. Can anybody confirm/deny?
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Im about to go and try that now.
Last night i installed the latest Mdvr and Lav and i can confirm 3D was enabled on my desktop (although the switching seems a bit variable) but within JRiver the 3D movie was still 2D.
I haven't tried a different player like MHC yet but will do and will post back.
I use Nvidia 980 Ti with latest signed drivers!
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FYI for me it the the opposite.
- 3D is fine without any OSD present, and also when using the the Theater View OSD at the bottom that appears when using the RC keys, but
- Drops to 2D when accessing the the Std View one at the top when you move the mouse have hover around the top. As soon as it appears then it immediately goes to 2D but with the madVR saying it is still in 3D. It does not recover when this OSD disappears. 100% Reproducible for me.
Thanks
Nathan
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i think the MC OSD thing is a red herring. I think it was Madvr going in and out of exclusive mode.
My problem still stands ripped 3D movies from MakemKV switch my LG Oled to 3D mode but they are not in 3D they still look like a normal 2D movie. Also if i play a SBS rip that is seen as 3D but my TV doesnt realise its SBS and so i still get 2 images on the screen.
Maybe i have some settings wrong in Madvr not sure. Im going to try MPC see if that works.
Any advice on initial settings i should use?
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FYI for me it the the opposite.
- 3D is fine without any OSD present, and also when using the the Theater View OSD at the bottom that appears when using the RC keys, but
- Drops to 2D when accessing the the Std View one at the top when you move the mouse have hover around the top. As soon as it appears then it immediately goes to 2D but with the madVR saying it is still in 3D. It does not recover when this OSD disappears. 100% Reproducible for me.
Thanks
Nathan
are you using Nvidia if so whats your settings? any screen shots you could provide so i can replicate? Thanks
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First thing is to check the madVR OSD Stats, and you should see info like:
- NV12, 8Bit, 4:2:0 (3D) - this means the LAV is decoding the 3D Image
- D3D11 (3D) - this means that madVR is rendering a 3D image
I too am using nvidia (660Ti, latest drivers).
For testing I'm keeping it simple by
- enableing 3D in the Windows (10) display properties and in nvidia changing it to 23hz (note: You also need to have run the nvidia 3D setup)
- stock madVR settings except that all the 3D options are checked and Exclusive mode is unchecked (so it is not a red herring for me).
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It's not a red herring for me either as it happens with or without exclusive mode set in madvr. I only get 3d when the osd is displayed. As soon as the osd goes off screen again, it goes back to 2d. The exact same settings in madvr work perfectly with mpc-hc.
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hmmmmm
for me settings replicated as suggested but in OSD of madvr I get D3D9
maybe i have ripped the 3d movie incorrectly or something
any ideas?
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@jmone and @SamuriHL,
is there any relation of the 3D vs 2D viewing to the "low latency mode"? The low latency mode can be spotted in the Ctrl+J OSD by looking at the size of the present queue. If it's "something/2" it's low latency mode. And when you lose the 3D effect through activation or deactivation of the OSD, does the 3D effect ever come back? Or is it gone for good?
@Daveyravey, is that a 3D MVC MKV made by MakeMKV? That's the only file that is supported at the moment. According to your screenshot, madVR is *not* receiving 3D from the decoder. So either you don't have the latest LAV nightly installed, or your file isn't a 3D MVC MKV.
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is it because the check flag DSD11 isnt enabled? If i enable it it plays back as D3D11
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I'll check if I get a chance. But it's not gone for good. It comes back as soon as I bring the osd back and goes back to 2d as soon as the osd disappears. Weirdest thing I've ever seen. The glasses still believe it's getting 3d even when it's not being displayed.
Daveyravey you need d3d11 set, yes.
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Oh and to be crystal clear the osd I'm referring to is mc21's not madvr's.
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is it because the check flag DSD11 isnt enabled? If i enable it it plays back as D3D11
No.
Read my reply again carefully. All the information is in there.
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ok my problem is now resolved it is now seeing D3D11 and I indeed now get 3D. The reason is wasn't working in my case was I installed lav nightly but didn't realise I also had to copy the 32 bit lav folder into
C:\Users\drfel\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Plugins\lav
this has now resolved my issue so I'm in the same place as you guys ... I get 3D but only when osd is used.... as soon as osd disappears so does 3D
weird
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Strange, I thought the latest LAV nightly should no longer require the DLL to be copied. But maybe nevcairiel hasn't implemented that fix yet?
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I have just tried MPC-HC and that works perfectlyin 3D so this is indeed a JRiver issue. Hopefully that can be fixed.
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madVR supports different OSD APIs. This is likely to be a bug in madVR, even though it doesn't occur in MPC-HC.
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The "OSD" they are talking about is not drawn with the video renderer, its normal player GUI. People like to call anything on screen a OSD. :p
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Yea yea, Hendrik. :P I did clarify what I meant in another post. HAHA
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Hmmmm... I wonder how that can then have an effect on 3D, especially when exclusive mode is turned off. Strange! Won't have time until next weekend to look into this, in any case.
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i have just found a workaround that allows 3D to play correctly
see grab below if i set madvr like this 3dplayback is fine if GUI is displayed or not
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I can confirm that does indeed work. That's highly messed up. Any thoughts on that one, madshi?
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Hmmmm... With that option disabled, in your OS (not NVidia!) display resolution control panel, do you have the stereoscopic/3D checkbox set before you start video playback? And when that MC GUI is shown, and you then close and reopen the OS display resolution control panel, is that checkbox still set? And does any of this change when you enable that madVR option?
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P.S: @Hendrik, can you double check the MC source code for "SetStereoEnabled"? Maybe MC has some code somewhere that intentionally disables 3D mode for some weird reason? That's about the only thing that makes sense to me right now...
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Hmmmm... With that option disabled, in your OS (not NVidia!) display resolution control panel, do you have the stereoscopic/3D checkbox set before you start video playback? And when that MC GUI is shown, and you then close and reopen the OS display resolution control panel, is that checkbox still set? And does any of this change when you enable that madVR option?
NOT set before I start playback.
Set while playing back.
Still set when I exit MC
And yes, changing that option most definitely changes the equation. It's doing some funky stuff when the option is enabled for 2d playback to turn it off when the GUI is showing and when not. It's getting highly confused.
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my situation is identical to SamuriHL
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P.S: @Hendrik, can you double check the MC source code for "SetStereoEnabled"? Maybe MC has some code somewhere that intentionally disables 3D mode for some weird reason? That's about the only thing that makes sense to me right now...
That string is not in our sources anywhere.
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Ok, thanks, will do some tests myself with MC21 next weekend, hope I'll be able to reproduce it.
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OK, this is very good news. I have a 3D capable projector, but have made no use of that capability as I use JR Media Center exclusively. I suspect the hardware is in need of updating, and its currently on Windows 7.
So, question. If I'm updating the machine and want to support 3D playback will I be well served if I go to an all Intel solution using on board Intel video with the latest generation Core i3 processor?
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As its MadVr doing the 3D processing i would think about getting a reasonably powerful graphics card if you want to make use of Madvrs scaling / processing.
If not then i think on board intel hardware will work with the lowest settings in Madvr. You acan always add a card if you need one ;D
My set up used i5 last gen and gtx 980ti and that pretty much flies with Madvr but i tend to use the highest processing settings.
The 3D that the madshi and Hendrik have been working on is brilliant and works well.
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Hi,
I have been using Stereoscopic player for 3DMKV via a script within MC.
I wanted to see what others were doing and what issues they had ... but didn't realize MadVR is adding 3D playback.
I haven't tried it yet but I'm super excited about it. I have about 110 3D Blu Rays and I really like 3DBD.
I guess I won't start a thread about people's experience with 3D and MC .. but rather I'll go back to the start of this one and see if I can get this method working... Fantastic !
(I'm glad the other way works tho .. it completely works for me... This new development is almost more than I could hope for.)
-Brian
Edit - haven't had any luck with it so far. ... But seeing the 3D options in MadVR totally made my day. I imagine how nice it would be to really have 3D capability in MC. Totally blows away MC's only genuine competition Kaliedescape.
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it should work whats your issue? i must admit it took me a few attempts to get it working
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I haven't tried yet - but what do you need to do in the NVidia control panel (turn on anything)? And do you need to install NVidia 3d or something else besides the latest LAV and madVR versions?
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install latest lav nightly
http://files.1f0.de/lavf/nightly/
install latest madvr
http://madshi.net/madVR.zip
then....this bits important as it caught me out
copy the contents of the lav 32 bit folder in programme files
C:\Users\xxx\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Plugins\lav
you then need to set up nvidia stereoscopic settings to make sure left/right eye is correct and thats about it
3D works well on my nvidia 980 not perfect yet a few dropped frames and some switching issues but apart from that all ok
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OK ... I wasn't sure about copy-ing the lav filter info into the JRiver plugins folder.
I assumed that installing the lav filters registered them and after that the current registered version would be used.
So,.. I copy-ed the lav filter files into the proper JRiver plugins folder and re tried.
I got Side By Side 3D but I'm currently using a non 3D monitor ... I'll take the PC back to the HT where the 3D Projector is and try again...
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As its MadVr doing the 3D processing i would think about getting a reasonably powerful graphics card if you want to make use of Madvrs scaling / processing.
If not then i think on board intel hardware will work with the lowest settings in Madvr. You acan always add a card if you need one ;D
My set up used i5 last gen and gtx 980ti and that pretty much flies with Madvr but i tend to use the highest processing settings.
The 3D that the madshi and Hendrik have been working on is brilliant and works well.
OK, thanks. I'm a watcher not a tweaker, so all I need is the basic Madvr capabilities. At present a GT440 does what I need, so I guess the Intel way will be OK. Plus Nvidia gave me big driver problems when I briefly tried to move from Win 7 to Win 10 late last year.
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Just tried again and I'm so impressed. Seems perfect. !!
This makes me SOOOOOO happy !! It's like a gift ... a great gift.. I didn't get anything for xmass so it's like suddenly a late gift.
I did have stereoscopic player working and I guess the money I spent on Stereoscopic player is just out the window but I'm much to happy to think like that just now.
I watched a bunch of scenes from Tanlged, Final Destination 4 and 5, Shark Night, Frankenweenie ... I'm just so darn happy.
JRiver now plays everything... everything I have. ! I'm so happy!
-Brian
ps I did hit a snag ... One title (Bait) has inverted polarity. With Stereoscopic player a sort of database of the titles is made so you can address titles with incorrect polarity. I don't know if there's a work around for this problem (aside from putting on the glasses upside down with does work.)
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in madvr settings under stereo 3d you can swap the left/right eye
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in madvr settings under stereo 3d you can swap the left/right eye
Great ... so there must likely be a keyboard command for that also. I wonder why only one of the 12 or so 3DBD that I ripped so far has reverse polarity. I don't think my regular 3D player has a way to flip polarity so I thought maybe all 3DBD had the same polarity.
I know that displays in general have a polarity switch option. (at least my 2 do.) I was thinking about re-ripping that title to see if I did something wrong.
maybe there is polarity information in the header of the mkv file. ??
-Brian
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im sure madhsi has a plan for left/right eye polarity. My lg oled allows me to switch it on the fly. whats the effect anyway when the polarity is wrong as i havent come across this yet
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There is metadata on the bluray that they believe isn't being added to the mkv about the left/right channel. It may not even be possible to read it. Not really sure yet.
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Now I'm really excited about this. I have a (hopefully) simple question: Is there anything special I need to do in MakeMKV when I rip a 3D title?
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nope just use this
http://www.makemkv.com/download/
and you want to ensure you rip the MVC file as well (thats the 3D bit)
see screen grab
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im sure madhsi has a plan for left/right eye polarity. My lg oled allows me to switch it on the fly. whats the effect anyway when the polarity is wrong as i havent come across this yet
Stuff in the background becomes stuff in the foreground and you will know it when you see it. The depth is inverted.
A simple way to see it is to put the glasses on upside down and view something with good 3D.
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nope just use this
http://www.makemkv.com/download/
and you want to ensure you rip the MVC file as well (thats the 3D bit)
see screen grab
Thanks, I haven't messed with 3D on th PC for a while when my attempt was frustrating and unsuccessful.
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To be fair considering this feature is still only in testing its all pretty stable and easy to implement!
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:( it is hit and miss for me. For those that having it working reliably, what GPU and OS do you have.
I have an nVidia 660Ti / Win 10 64-Bit / Latest Driver (dec)
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For me it seems to be fairly reliable on Win10 Pro 64bit, AMD R9 270X with Crimson 16.1 drivers. Key thing for me was to leave the 4th checkbox on the 3D settings screen unticked (restore os stereo 3D settings on media player is closed). If I ticked that setting then I had crashes if I tried to play a 2nd movie regardless of whether or not I restart MC.
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:( it is hit and miss for me. For those that having it working reliably, what GPU and OS do you have.
I have an nVidia 660Ti / Win 10 64-Bit / Latest Driver (dec)
Nvidia 980 Ti I5 Win 10 64bit
the only issue i get is switching back to desktop resolution after film is finished and some dropped frames occasion stutter/hiccup that didnt happen with earlier versions of Madvr
i can send some screen shots of my settings if you wish
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:( it is hit and miss for me. For those that having it working reliably, what GPU and OS do you have.
I have an nVidia 660Ti / Win 10 64-Bit / Latest Driver (dec)
I have Windows 10 64 bit, Nvidia GTX 750, CPU is i5 3.2Ghz (PC itself is just a run of the mill Dell Inspiron)
It totally works for me. It goes in and out of 3D properly and plays perfectly. I can go to any 3D movie and follow with any 2D movie. The one and only problem I have seen is a 3D polarity problem with one movie. I haven't seen crashes.
I did have to dumb down my MadVR settings because otherwise I wouldn't have enough CPU I guess. I changed Chroma to something simple (Bicubic I think ...)
Also,.. it helped me to turn off Exclusive mode for video... that going into and out of exclusive mode didn't seem helpful.
I also ticked the box saying when playing 2D to disable 3D .. that was important or it wouldn't leave 3D mode.
finally...Jmone.. thank you for the script you made.. 2 days ago I was as happy as I could be with that... if this option never happened or doesn't pan out then what you did still totally works. (And has the advantage that I can do more with MadVR for 2D if I'm using SP for 3D.)
-Brian
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thanks for the replies... I'm thinking a later GPU may be in order....
(and Brian, the script may still be of use for Menus etc ... or any other feature another player has that MC does not. One day I hope it will be completely unnecessary)
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thanks for the replies... I'm thinking a later GPU may be in order....
(and Brian, the script may still be of use for Menus etc ... or any other feature another player has that MC does not. One day I hope it will be completely unnecessary)
Well,... your work is still very useful to me. I'm thrilled with madVR and this new ability. However, using the external program for now has several key advantages.
1 - I can keep more aggressive MadVR settings for 2D
2 - Stereoscopic player builds a kind of database for all files it plays and with this I can set polarity correctly
3 - For the moment the Stereoscopic player is more stable.
Out of curiousity, I used JRemote to try to stream to my iphone... Opening any 3D movie just didn't work ... I guess it try-ed to use the 3D somehow and gave up.
-Brian
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1 - I can keep more aggressive MadVR settings for 2D
You can setup profiles in madVR to switch settings for 3D to be more conservative.
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
This is so incredibly cool! Cant wait to test this out! Thanks guys for working on this.
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You can setup profiles in madVR to switch settings for 3D to be more conservative.
Neat... I'm still learning.
And,.... I'm still so excited about this new development!....
It is really dern cool.
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I've got a GTX 760 in my main PC so I'll try to swap it with the 660Ti in the HTPC and see if that makes any difference. What is the "sweat" spot these days in nvidia for HTPC use?
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Jmone, I believe NVidia 3D Play is required. Maybe that's why u r having troubles?
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I've tried to reproduce the problem with playback becoming 2D when the OSD is shown (or not shown), but it doesn't seem to happen on my PC. I've done one change, though. Could you guys double check whether it makes any difference?
http://madshi.net/madVRmc21.rar
Simply overwrite the madVR.ax file in the JRiver madVR folder.
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I've got a GTX 760 in my main PC so I'll try to swap it with the 660Ti in the HTPC and see if that makes any difference. What is the "sweat" spot these days in nvidia for HTPC use?
Nope by 760 needs a 8 pin PCI-E power, and my HTPC only has 6 Pin. I'll grab a GTX960 today and try out madshi's new build.
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Sweet spot right now would be 960 because it supports 10bit HEVC decoding, unlike most other GPUs. But if you can wait, next generation GPUs should have roughly twice the performance per Watt. Coming out mid 2016 or something like that.
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I've tried to reproduce the problem with playback becoming 2D when the OSD is shown (or not shown), but it doesn't seem to happen on my PC. I've done one change, though. Could you guys double check whether it makes any difference?
http://madshi.net/madVRmc21.rar
Simply overwrite the madVR.ax file in the JRiver madVR folder.
Rolled back and forth a couple of times. This one does not even do a change of res for me so it is always SBS D3D9 and does not put the GPU into 3D mode at all. Even when I manually put it the settings into 3D then it is still SBS D3D9. When I rollback the madvr.ax then it is what I got before.
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Will give it a try in an hour or so and get back to you. Earlier I was not able to get 3D to work at all and nothing has changed on that machine since I left earlier this week. So I'm not sure what's happening.
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At one point I could not even get nvidia's 3d setup to work - had to do a clean install of the drivers.
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Rolled back and forth a couple of times. This one does not even do a change of res for me so it is always SBS D3D9 and does not put the GPU into 3D mode at all. Even when I manually put it the settings into 3D then it is still SBS D3D9. When I rollback the madvr.ax then it is what I got before.
Slightly different results for me. When I use this madvr.ax version, it also does not switch on 3D mode in the OS at all. Playback doesn't even start for me. Just hangs. I'm able to open madvr settings from the directshow filters menu, but, the movie playback never starts. I only have 3D enabled and enable 3D for 3D content selected. When I try to enable 3D mode in the OS display settings, mc21 crashes immediately upon trying to play a 3D mkv. I'm not sure where to go from here with this version.
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Putting back the 0.90.3 madvr.ax restores the previous situation I had (I rebooted my machine since the weirdness started earlier and now it's back to behaving like it has been). Basically enable 3D, and when playing 3D content enable are set. And it works in MC21. madvr OSD:
D3D11 fullscreen windowed (3D)
NV12, 8 bit, 4:2:0 (3D)
When I enable all the options on the 3D settings page, the OSD shows the same but I don't get 3D until I bring up the MC UI. Even right clicking to bring up the context menu will enable 3D with those settings. Or bringing up the player controls, etc. I just don't get it.
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Slightly different results for me. When I use this madvr.ax version, it also does not switch on 3D mode in the OS at all. Playback doesn't even start for me. Just hangs. I'm able to open madvr settings from the directshow filters menu, but, the movie playback never starts.
That is the same for me, but FYI if you press Pause/Play it will start playing (at least for me) but not in 3D. This stalled playback is one of the issue I've reported.
When I enable all the options on the 3D settings page, the OSD shows the same but I don't get 3D until I bring up the MC UI. Even right clicking to bring up the context menu will enable 3D with those settings. Or bringing up the player controls, etc. I just don't get it.
And I get the opposite. When (if) 3D is working, as soon as I bring up the MC Menu I lose 3D even though madVR says it is all fine (and I don't get it back when the menu disappears).
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It's definitely not consistent, that's for sure. At least across users. For me, the behavior I get is very consistent with 0.90.3. The new version, I tried pause/play and it did nothing. Very frustrating.
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Ahhh but it will get there! It will be interesting to see if a newer GPU will fix any of my issues...
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Oh of that I have NO doubt! I don't want to seem like I'm complaining cause that isn't it at all. I am just wanting to help figure out what's wrong.
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Mmm I see you have a 6xx Series GPU as well. Others in this thread with it working well seem to have 7xx or later.
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No cash to upgrade any time soon.
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I'd also prefer not to upgrade - just looking for a commonality...
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Some good news! I found a GeForce 361.60 Hotfix (http://www.guru3d.com/files-details/geforce-361-60-hotfix-driver-download.html) over at Guru3d that seems to have fixed most of my problems. I see it installed a newer version of the 3D Drivers.
Just retesting now....
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I've been using it. Does not fix most of the issues at all.
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Well it fixed my stuck in D3D9 SBS mode as I now get D3D11 3D reliably!
That said, I have now seen some of the behaviour you have reported eg, on occasion it is 3D when the Menu is displayed but 2D when off... but I've also seen the reverse... Mostly it is always 3D. I've been trying to change settings slowly to see if there is any commonality/repeatability but no real luck yet.
I have noticed any quick play/stop/play behaviour is more likely to cause issues, but if I'm patient it is now much more reliable than where it was with the Dec WHQL driver. I'm also using it with MC's display rate changer (Tools --> Options--> Display Setting--> Custom-->) and put in "Wait after change" value to help slow down all these display changes. I also not seen the hung playback issue since the driver upgrade, but sometimes the opposite where if I press Stop I get a hung black screen and I need to move the mouse to the menu for playback to be terminated.
One thing for the JR Team that is not working is while I've set the "Default (used when restoring display settings) = 1920x1080@50hz" Display Setting Option, it is being ignored on playback stop. I'm getting left in 3D Mode. The Display Setting Options may need some tweaking once 3D is officially added in MC.
I will still be getting a GTX960 as I'm struggling to keep queues filled with Jinc+AR when in 3D and end up with terrible Lip Sync. My 660Ti has served well for the last 3 odd years but I get the feeling it is struggling.
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Next try:
http://madshi.net/madVRmc21b.rar
If you still have problems with 3D not activating or switching on/off when the OSD is shown, then please create a debug log for me (with the new debug build), by using the following approach:
1) Enable Ctrl+J OSD and keep it on all the time for this test.
2) Start playback in windowed mode. Let it run for 10 seconds. Do you get 3D?
3) Switch to fullscreen (are you using exclusive?) and let it run for 10 seconds. Do you get 3D?
4) Show the MC OSD and let playback run for 10 seconds. Do you get 3D?
5) While the MC OSD is visible, does madVR detect a different refresh rate?
6) Hide the MC OSD and let playback run for 10 seconds. Do you get 3D?
7) Close MC21 completely, zip and upload the debug log.
Please also tell me your madVR settings, especially those in the "stereo 3d" and "general settings" pages. Thanks!
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Madshi,
I want to thank you. Aside from my family of course, my JRiver setup is the favorite part of my life and I likely wouldn't use JRiver if it didn't incorporate MadVR. I've been overboard with my home theater hobby going on 16 years now and it's getting better all the time.
I will work on debugging this as much as I can though a problem is that for me it worked from the start.
Still... I'll help in any way I can.
I think I'll go ahead and uninstall Stereoscopic player now.
Thanks again.
edit - Since I'm not having any trouble (apart from one movie with inverted polarity) I don't know how I can help but I will say I have turned off exclusive mode and I have 2D playback set to dis-able 3D mode.... With those 2 settings I can go back and forth with 3D and 2D movies all day ... no problems over here.
-Brian
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Me again...
I hooked my HTPC back up to my full HT setup and this new ax file posted above killed everything for me.
So maybe I can help debug after all.
With the new file I either got side by side or just MC crash.
However, I did uninstall Stereoscopic player and I do believe in this new development.
-Brian
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Strange. Do you get a madVR crash report for that crash? If so, please send it to me, or upload it somewhere. For the SBS problem, can you please create a debug log for me with the new build?
Weird thing is, all those builds work just fine on my PC, with any of the 3 GPU manufacturers (Intel, AMD, NVidia). So I really depend on getting information from you guys.
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Next try:
http://madshi.net/madVRmc21b.rar
If you still have problems with 3D not activating or switching on/off when the OSD is shown, then please create a debug log for me (with the new debug build), by using the following approach:
1) Enable Ctrl+J OSD and keep it on all the time for this test.
2) Start playback in windowed mode. Let it run for 10 seconds. Do you get 3D?
3) Switch to fullscreen (are you using exclusive?) and let it run for 10 seconds. Do you get 3D?
4) Show the MC OSD and let playback run for 10 seconds. Do you get 3D?
5) While the MC OSD is visible, does madVR detect a different refresh rate?
6) Hide the MC OSD and let playback run for 10 seconds. Do you get 3D?
7) Close MC21 completely, zip and upload the debug log.
Please also tell me your madVR settings, especially those in the "stereo 3d" and "general settings" pages. Thanks!
I'm working on it now. Just a note I reinstalled nvidia 361.60 beta driver as it has been the most stable driver for 3D.
NOTE: For the nVidia users...you REALLY should run the 3D setup wizard after installing a new driver else bad messed up stuff happens.
This build does NOT enable 3d display mode in display settings for me, even though it should, so I enabled it manually for this test.
madvr settings are simple...3D enabled, set 3D mode on for 3D content. Nothing else enabled. D3D11 is enabled, but, no fse or windowed exclusive, either.
1) Been enabled anyway
2) SBS
3) SBS
4) SBS
5) No
6) SBS
I've not created a debug log, but, I verified the exact same thing happens with this build in MPC-HC, as well. Essentially I can't get frame packed to work at all and it defaults to SBS. I verified LAV is still seeing the content as 3D. madvr OSD is *NOT* showing it as 3D which is probably why I'm getting SBS. I can post a debug log in a bit but I thought I'd give you some quick feedback first.
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Debug log is hella large. Like 1.4 gigs. What the hell did you do? LMAO! I started out in windowed playback mode and MC21 crashed as soon as I went full screen. This build is definitely not right.
edit: http://www.mediafire.com/download/xymowytoz05m3bx/madVR_-_log.7z
Log from mc21b build.
edit2: http://www.mediafire.com/download/h1d8drre8bd1d0h/madVR_-_log-0930.7z
A log with 0.90.3 for comparison. What you'll see in that log is I start playback, and it switches to 3D mode and shows it's outputting 3D in the OSD. However, it's not. I then right click to bring up the popup menu from MC21, and it shows 3D until I hide the menu. No idea if this helps but it's what I got.
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Ok, sorry guys. Here's hopefully a better try:
http://madshi.net/madVR93b.rar
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No apologies. I won't get to try this out til much later if not tomorrow.
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I will try the new one...
With the last one I reverted back to the most resent release and everything was fine again.
Hope to try the update soon.
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I spent a quick half hour on this last night after getting my system setup after my house move.
I also could not get framepacking working and only got SBS with a framepacked 3D MVC.
I copied all most recent release files to relevant locations.
Running Windows 8.1 64bit, Nvidia GTX 760 with latest 361.43 WHQL game ready drivers.
MC21 21.0.39
MC21 would crash regularly and I never was able to get a picture.
Sometimes just got audio and blank screen with top MC21 control panel overlay. Tried all the builds and all the same result.
With the current configuration Stereoscopic player and TMT still works with framepacking with either 3D MVC or 3D ISO.
I'll do more testing tonight.
Thanks for putting so much time and effort into it Madshi!
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Ok, sorry guys. Here's hopefully a better try:
http://madshi.net/madVR93b.rar
This one's got some odd behavior for me. I enabled EVERY checkbox on the 3D settings page. Initially I got no 3D even though the OSD said it was 3D. Even bringing up the MC21 UI didn't switch it to 3D. That was odd, so, I took it out of fullscreen mode and checked to make sure it switched back to 3D on in the display settings and it was. When I went back to fullscreen in MC, 3D worked perfectly. Bringing up the MC UI, not having the UI, etc...didn't matter. I'm not sure what the secret sauce is here.
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WOAAAAAAA, that's FREAKY! I have something for you. Not sure if you need a debug log or not. I can try to get one in a bit if you need it. Ok, here's how this goes down for me....
1) Bring up MC21
2) Select a 3D MKV
3) It starts fullscreen playback, not showing 3D
4) madvr OSD says D3D11 3D
5) Pause playback....take it out of fullscreen mode
6) Open the OS display settings page, go to advanced. Change NOTHING but close it....this step is the magic sauce
7) Go back to MC21
8 ) Bring it fullscreen again
9) Unpause
10) 3D works in all situations going forward
What the?
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Nevermind what I said. it's wrong. Just start the playback, pause, take it out of full screen mode, bring it back to full screen, and play. Then I get 3D.
Here's a new log in case it helps.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/w1r7sywzadlka49/madVR_-_log.7z
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@SamuriHL, is that with exclusive mode enabled or disabled? Try the other way round (enable or disable exclusive mode), just as a test. Going to bed now...
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@SamuriHL, is that with exclusive mode enabled or disabled? Try the other way round (enable or disable exclusive mode), just as a test. Going to bed now...
Windowed and full screen exclusive mode are disabled. Running a quick test now with FSE enabled. And that seems to work. Things are 3D when it starts and stay 3D. However, I'd prefer if it worked without FSE cause I hate the transitions. I realize it was just a test. Thanks!
Window overlay does not work. Only FSE. Blah.
And actually even in FSE, swapping back and forth between windowed mode and FSE a few times, windowed mode eventually loses 3D. But FSE brings it back. Freaky.
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Ok, some more questions for disabled exclusive mode:
1) Do you really need to go fullscreen? How about just changing the madVR render window size slightly, and then resuming playback?
2) Do you really have to pause/unpause? Or maybe just changing the render window size (or going fullscreen) does the trick without pausing the video?
3) What happens if you manually enable the OS 3D checkbox before starting MC? Does it work directly then?
4) Once you got it working, is playback 3D even in a non-fullscreen window?
5) What happens if you start playback in a non-fullscreen window instead of a fullscreen window?
Thanks.
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See my update as you posted
So far it seems like FSE is the winner.
1) As soon as it comes out of full screen while paused it seems to enable 3D in the non-full screen window.
2) Yes, pause, unpause seems to be necessary. Just changing it while playing doesn't seem to work.
3) Nope...makes no difference to have it enabled manually
4) Yes, playback in non-full screen and full screen all work in 3D
5) I'll have to test this one later as it requires some settings changes and I don't want to go dig right now. Interesting question though.
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madshi's a darn genius. That's it. #5. If you start the player in non-full screen mode, 3D works even when you go to full screen. I suspect that's why it works for me in MPC-HC because the option that says start playback in full screen doen't work for me. LOL. So it always starts in a window. Getting MC21 to mirror that behavior makes it play exactly as MPC-HC does now. Nicely done to figure that out. Now....why? LMAO :D
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Using the latest posted update I have no trouble.
Also using just the latest full release I had no trouble.
I don't follow what you guys says about full screen as I'm always full screen.
I am not engaging exclusive tho.
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OK - Got my new GTX 960 GPU in and working. Been just playing with the public release so far and will move on to testing the http://madshi.net/madVR93b.rar this arvo.
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Was just enjoying resident evil retribution and avatar 3D. However I think the forced subtitles didn't display in Avatar.
Going from 3D to 2D and back is working fine tho
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Next try:
http://madshi.net/madVRmc21b.rar
If you still have problems with 3D not activating or switching on/off when the OSD is shown, then please create a debug log for me (with the new debug build), by using the following approach:
- Log at: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59011278/madVR93b%20-%20log.zip
- New 960 with GeForce 361.60 Hotfix
- MC Settings : Display changing OFF
- madVR Settings : Reset to Default then Unchecked Exclusive Mode. Checked all the 3D Options. Enable Ctrl+J
Notes on what you should see in the Log:
- Started playback of 3D when the desktop was at it's default (1080/50hz)
- Playback was in 3D Correctly but massive frame drops. Did a seek from the KB to fix
- Moused over to expose the MC Menu (top) and it drops to 2D / when the MC Menu (top) disappears then 3D resumes
- Switched to Windows Overlay and repeated the above test exposing the MC Menu with the same results
- Using the TheaterView OSD (bottom) and it stays in 3D
- I saw no change in reported refresh rate
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More testing, same settings but with "Restore OS 3D Setting = OFF"
- If I Start Playback with the GPU already in 3D Mode then I have no issues with it coming in or out of 3D (with Restore 3D settings OFF)
- If the GPU is still in 3D mode when finishing playback and I then play a 2D movie I see that while the GPU has switched to 3D/50hz I get a flashing picture (Black/Pic/Black). Pause/Seek does not fix it but a Stop/Play does (as this time it is already in 2D mode). Log of the flashing playback is here : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59011278/madVR93b%20-%20log2.zip
It would seem I have NO issues if the correct 2D/3D mode is set prior to playback commencing.... but weirdness happens if the GPU is still changing modes when playback has commenced.
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so many issues and options for settings I guess and yet the first release worked so very well for me.
I hope it's easy to sort and I suppose it comes down to focus-ing on each problem one by one.
One thing is peeps have to have 3D working on the PC before trying this... I know that for sure.
For me, My PC is dedicated and I live in "theater view" and I have to have it in 2D most of the time. Thankfully, it switches in and out of 3D with no issue for me... I'm very happy about that.
-Brian
ps anyone with Nvidia, I do believe you need what they call Nvidia 3DPlay. It sort of got abandoned and worked into later drivers but I don't have much joy without it. It really helps with Nvidia 3D
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Here's another new build. Only change is that I'm waiting 3 seconds after enabling 3D OS support. I hope that this will solve jmone's problem?
http://madshi.net/madVRmc21c.rar
@SamuriHL, not sure what to do with your problem. Your log looks clean to me, I've no idea why starting in fullscreen windowed doesn't work for you, while everything else (FSE and non-fullscreen windowed) works. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, I think it's probably a GPU driver issue.
@bhampster, it all worked well for me from the first release, too. Not sure why sometimes there are so many problems on some PCs, but not on others.
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Beats me man, I only work here. LOL. Yea, I don't know. It's a very strange issue. I'm either going to have to use FSE which I don't like due to the noticeable switching between full screen and windowed mode or start everything non-full screen which breaks the theater view concept. Neither is wonderful, however, the fact that 3D is working for MKV is such a huge benefit I hardly care what the work around is as long as it continues to work.
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madshi,
We've seen some odd problems with Nvidia drivers lately, maybe related to Win10. I posted links to a couple of them here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=24031.msg704783#msg704783
Thanks again for your work on this. It's fun watching the progress.
Jim
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Yeah, Windows 10 GPU drivers generally seem to be a bit of a mess at the moment. AMD has its own share of problems (no proper DXVA deinterlacing quality, unstable Crossfire etc).
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That's why I grabbed the latest beta driver for nVidia. Here's hoping that a combination of Win10 updates and/or GPU drivers fixes the weird issues going forward. My GPU is getting a bit long in the tooth but I'm not in a position right now to replace it sadly.
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Here's another new build. Only change is that I'm waiting 3 seconds after enabling 3D OS support. I hope that this will solve jmone's problem?
http://madshi.net/madVRmc21c.rar
Nope - no change (well one for the worse, if I bring up the MC Menu (top) I drop out of 3D till it disappears). Is there a particular "known good" combination of settings and driver version for a 960 on Win10 64-Bit I can test against?
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Actually it is the same. Weirdness creaps in if the GPU is still changing modes and refresh rates when playback starts. One it is fully setup then it is perfect. I notice that all this GPU changing modes can take 5 sec on my PC/AVR/TV. Would it be possible to get a test build with a very long delay (say 10 sec) just to see if this is it.
I did have a thought on this and just put in a DVI Detector plus into the HDMI out to see if keeping the EDID constant helps but no change.
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Ok, here's a test build with 10 second delay - but only when activating 3D. When deactivating 3D I'm doing a 1 second delay.
http://madshi.net/madVR10s.rar
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I'm going to mess with that build myself when I get a minute. Probably in an hour or so. Wondering if in full screen all the switching to 3D and resolution modes are causing my issues. It's a thought anyway.
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Argh - Going around in circles. The only repeatable thing is:
- If it is in the Correct 3D mode before playback = All Good
- If madVR needs to switch to 3D mode = weirdness comes in
Now I see when madVR switch 3D mode on at commencement of playback on my TV
- Playback starts (I can hear the sound track) but no picture
- TV reports a change to 24hz with the Black Screen Flash and a drop of sound then
- TV reports 3D Mode comes on the TV with the Black Screen Flash and a drop of sound
- After the delay I get another Black Screen Flash and a drop of sound (sometime I even see the TV reporting that 3D is being turned off and on again)
- Weirdness commences
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That's kind of the patterns I'd been seeing as well. But starting it in 3D initially didn't help my situation.
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More fiddling with all sort of combinations but same results:
- If it is in the Correct mode (either 2D or 3D) before playback = All Good
- If madVR needs to switch to 3D mode to play a 3D video = weirdness that can include any of the following (normally one, sometimes two)
- Bringing up MC Menu can toggle 2D/3D being displayed (sometimes this will then fix it, sometimes it will contine to go between 2D/3D)
- Bad lip sync (doing a seek will fix it for a bit)
- Massive dropped frames or presentation glitches (doing a seek will mostly not fix it)
- If madVR needs to switch to 2D mode = blinking Back/Video/Black/etc playback. Only a Stop/Play fixes this (so it is then in the correct mode). 100% repeatable and you have the log for this.
The only thing I can think of is a way to enable/disable 3D and set the refresh rate prior to commencing playback at all (not just displaying the Video frames).
edit: or maybe the order things are done in, eg Turn on 3D --> Change to 23hz if needed. On my setup I'm seeing several TV Syncs / Audio drops that may indicate something is doing more than just Turn on 3D / Change to 23hz.
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Just to make sure: Similar issues occur in MPC-HC?
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I'd have to install it!
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OK Quick Feedback - Got MPC-HC working with 3D just fine. It works fine without issues but the playback behvour looks different. I had it configed to play in Full Screen and it looks like it starts out like that but ends up in a Window that I then expand.
So, Tried to do the same in MC with a detached display and that too also seemed to work
Need to test some more.
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OK - I think I've found the Key piece! It has to do with the MC--> Tools-->Options--> General-->Behaviour--> Jump on play (video) setting. If it is set to "Display View" / "Display View (even in playing now)" then the weirdness happens.
If it is set to any other option, you get playback starting in a window that you then manually expand to full screen = no weirdness
Can anyone else confirm?
Thanks
Nathan
PS - I also noticed that there is less screen mode changes happening during commencement and stoping of playback on MPC-HC vs MC
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The only big difference I see there is that switching to Display View will playback in fullscreen immediately, while not doing that will of course start in windowed.
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@jmone, sounds like you're on exactly the same page as SamuriHL now. He ended up with exactly the same conclusion that it works well when starting in windowed mode, and manually switching to fullscreen later. For him directly starting in fullscreen worked, too, though, when using FSE mode. Can you confirm?
One big question is whether MC is doing something "weird" when starting in fullscreen mode, or not. To double check, in MPC-HC in "options -> playback -> fullscreen" can you please check "Launch files in fullscreen"? Do you get the same problems then as with MC?
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I had weirdness in FSE , Windowed Overlay (my preferred setting), and both options unchecked. All my testing till just then was using Display View, and while I'm cross eyed looking at this stuff I'm hoping someone else can confirm... but it looks repeatable.
Thanks
Nathan
PS - Display View is really the mode to use esp with TheaterView clients.
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To double check, in MPC-HC in "options -> playback -> fullscreen" can you please check "Launch files in fullscreen"? Do you get the same problems then as with MC?
From memory, when I used that setting in MPC-HC it started in Full Screen, then went to a Windowed mode that I then had to manually re-fullscreen.... It was this behaviour that let me to check MC's other Display Settings. Let me re-check on MPC-HC
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Nope MPC-HC is only launching in Windowed mode (it was going a blackscreen during the refresh rate change not full screen). Here are my settings.
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Not sure why launching in fullscreen doesn't seem to work for you with MPC-HC. For some reason everything always works just fine on my PC. Try unchecking "Exit fullscreen". If that doesn't help, then I don't know what else to test.
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That option also does nothing for me in MPC-HC.
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Didn't change for me either.
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Ah, I found out what's going on: The option in MPC-HC only shows effect if you start MPC-HC with the video file as parameter (which is what happens when double clicking a video file with MPC-HC configured as the default player). If you start MPC-HC without a video file and then open a video file (or drag&drop it), the "launch in fullscreen" option has no effect.
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That explains why that option didn't work for me in mpc hc as well.
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OK - Launched MPC-HC in Full Screen mode (just using a batch file) and got the same Weirdness as with MC, including no 3D till I brought up a menu then it was OK.
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Ok, thanks. So now we know it's not an MC specific problem.
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No Probs - anything more you want tested at this point?
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Don't have time to do serious development in the middle of the week, so no, but thanks.
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Hi I'm not sure what version of windows you guys are using but I wasn't able to ever get 3d working with any of the files madshi provided.
Everything I tried I ended up with no picture and about 20secs of sound before MC would lock up. I did manage to capture 1 madvr crash dump and emailed it.
Using windows 8.1 pro 64bit all patched up-to-date and tried 6 different Nvidia drivers on GTX 760 with no luck.
When ever MC crashed 3d would no longer work in the Nvidia 3d test program or in stereoscopic at all. I'd have to reboot to get 3d working again with test program or stereoscopic.
TMT and stereoscopic were working with 3d framepacking after a reboot so it's a MadVR / MC21 problem somewhere.
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I tried a few different install combos, the easiest of which is:
1) LAV: Get latest nightly from here (https://files.1f0.de/lavf/nightly/)
- Install it (as it is an exe) and it should also download the required 3D dll
- Delete the contents of the "C:\Users\[USERNAME]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Plugins\lav"
- Copy the contents of the installed nightly LAV Files (...LAV Filters\x86) into "C:\Users\[USERNAME]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Plugins\lav"
As of Media Center 21.0.58, a recent enough LAV is included in MC.
2) madVR: Download on of the madVR builds
- Delete the contents of the "C:\Users\[USERNAME]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Plugins\madvr"
- Extract the contents of the madVR build to "C:\Users\[USERNAME]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Plugins\madvr"
3) Config:
- Use the nvidia 3D config option in their control to setup 3D for your glasses/TV etc
- Use the madVR UI to select the config you want as usual (but look at the 3D Settings), you may want to use "restore default settings.bat" to get a std baseline but note: Fullscreen Exclusive is checked by default (I then turn this off)
- No config required for LAV
- In MC just run as RO HQ
4) GPU Drivers, make sure you are running the latest (and if you have a weak GPU you may have issues)
- nvidia : http://www.guru3d.com/files-categories/videocards-nvidia-geforce-vista-%7C-7.html
- ATI/AMD : http://www.guru3d.com/files-categories/videocards-ati-catalyst-vista-win-7.html
- Intel : ?
You can tell if it is working by looking at the madVR OSD and:
1)NV12, 8bit, 4:2:0 (3D) = LAV is decoding 3D
2) D3D11 (3D) = MadVR is outputting frame packed 3D
Note: if a crash shows a madVR crash report box, then click on "show bug report", press Ctrl+C, then you have the bug report in your clipboard. Upload it somewhere and post a link here for madshi to look at.
==============================================
To revert to the JRiver builds of LAV and madVR, just delete the folders:
- "C:\Users\[USERNAME]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Plugins\lav"
- "C:\Users\[USERNAME]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Plugins\madvr"
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I tried a few different install combos, the easiest of which is:
1) LAV: Get latest nightly from here (https://files.1f0.de/lavf/nightly/)
- Install it (as it is an exe) and it should also download the required 3D dll
- Delete the contents of the "C:\Users\[USERNAME]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Plugins\lav"
- Copy the contents of the installed nightly LAV Files into "C:\Users\[USERNAME]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Plugins\lav"
2) madVR: Download on of the madVR builds
- Delete the contents of the "C:\Users\[USERNAME]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Plugins\madvr"
- Extract the contents of the madVR build to "C:\Users\[USERNAME]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Plugins\madvr"
3) Config:
- Use the nvidia 3D config option in their control to setup 3D for your glasses/TV etc
- Use the madVR UI to select the config you want as usual (but look at the 3D Settings), you may want to use "restore default settings.bat" to get a std baseline but note: Fullscreen Exclusive is checked by default (I then turn this off)
- No config required for LAV (unless the 3D Dll still needs to be copied to system32 / syswow folder but I think that is fixed)
- In MC just run as RO HQ
To revert to the JRiver builds of LAV and madVR, just delete the folders:
- "C:\Users\[USERNAME]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Plugins\lav"
- "C:\Users\[USERNAME]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Plugins\madvr"
Thanks mate helpful as usual! You're a good Python (Bloke). :)
I think this may have been my issue> No config required for LAV (unless the 3D Dll still needs to be copied to system32 / syswow folder but I think that is fixed)
Ill try again tonight!
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jmone,
Thanks for your instructions. I added them as a link in the first post.
Jim
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Good Idea - added my own note as well for those that want to test and provide feedback to madshi (madVR) and Hendrik (LAV Filters / MC). Thanks to these guys it is looking like a great feature enhancement to BD!
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Nathan do you know the name of the Lav 3D dll that should be in the system32 and syswow64 folders? (PS there's no recent DLL in my folders other than Nvidia DLLs)
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It is libmfxsw32.dll/libmfxsw64.dll - but I understand this was fixed by Hendrick on the 12th Jan (prior to the fix being fixed, it had to be copied to C:\Windows and/or system32 and syswow64 folders). Anyway, you can tell if it is working by looking at the madVR OSD and:
1)NV12, 8bit, 4:2:0 (3D) = LAV is decoding 3D
2) D3D11 (3D) = MadVR is outputting frame packed 3D
If it is crashing then chances are LAV is not finding the libmfxsw32.dll/libmfxsw64.dll
Note: I'm presuming that you only need libmfxsw32.dll given MC is 32 Bit.
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Thanks worked it out but it didn't fix the crash problem. Madvr OSD says LAV 3D and Madvr 3D so the dll is working. ;as per your points above.
According to Madvr OSD Nothing is getting through the buffer though, it crashes with a single frame in all the buffers.
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Couple of things:
- What GPU are you using (and if nvidia, did you run the setup prog in the nvidia control panel)?
- have you enabled 3D in Windows Display settings (under Advvanced display settings in Windows 10)?
- have you reset the madVR settings?
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And is it a madVR crash report box? If so, click on "show bug report", then press Ctrl+C, then you have the bug report in your clipboard. Upload it somewhere.
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And is it a madVR crash report box? If so, click on "show bug report", then press Ctrl+C, then you have the bug report in your clipboard. Upload it somewhere.
Thanks - added this to my instructions (pls let me know of any errors/changes)
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Two things:
1) I thought with the latest nightlies, libmfxsw32.dll/libmfxsw64.dll would not have to be copied manually to system32/syswow64, anymore? Not 100% sure, though. Hendrik?
2) The NVidia GPU driver likes to crash when playing stuff in *2D* while the OS (or NVidia) control panel has 3D enabled, and when using D3D11 presentation. Possible solutions: (a) Tell madVR to enable/disable OS 3D support depending on whether content is 3D or 2D. (b) Use D3D9 presentation, which usually doesn't crash the NVidia GPU driver even if OS 3D support is enabled.
Of course the crashes are NVidia driver bugs. Might also make sense to try to report this to NVidia somehow to get it fixed.
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1) I thought with the latest nightlies, libmfxsw32.dll/libmfxsw64.dll would not have to be copied manually to system32/syswow64, anymore? Not 100% sure, though. Hendrik?
Ever tried getting users to stop doing their silly workarounds and testing if it works without? Good luck with that. :p
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Ever tried getting users to stop doing their silly workarounds and testing if it works without? Good luck with that. :p
While it is working for me (minus the bugs), I'm trying to be helpful with basic instructions for others to test so you don't only have a couple of data points. Feel free to edit my instructions directly, else "good luck with that" as my magic 8-Ball just died.
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Yet it would be helpful to know if it actually works now without copying the Intel DLLs around, or if further fixes are needed. If everyone just copies them around without testing, we will never know, will we.
So if you previously had to copy the DLLs into the system32 directory, install the latest nightly, and try deleting libmfxsw32.dll/libmfxsw64.dll from the Windows system directory again to see if its actually fixed.
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FYI - I haven't copied any dll's to system32 and it works fine for me.
All I've been doing is running the LAV installer exe and then copying the contents of the x86 folder found in LAV programs folder into the jriver plugins folder for LAV and that seems to work.
Probably not exactly the feedback you wanted since I'm still copying stuff, but it at least establishes that they don't need to be in system32.
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FYI - I haven't copied any dll's to system32 and it works fine for me.
All I've been doing is running the LAV installer exe and then copying the contents of the x86 folder found in LAV programs folder into the jriver plugins folder for LAV and that seems to work.
Probably not exactly the feedback you wanted since I'm still copying stuff, but it at least establishes that they don't need to be in system32.
Copying to the MC plugins folder is fine, just copying to the system folder would be important, thanks!
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FWIW, I had already tested yesterday, and decoding still worked fine, even after deleting the dlls from the system folders. But experience tells me that things tend to work just fine on my PC a lot of times, while other users might still have problems, so it'd be useful to have test results from multiple users.
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I've not had to copy the dll around anymore. Just to the plugins/lav folder and that's it. For me it's working well enough now to start using. Basically I bring up MC21, start the movie, pause it, bring it out of full screen and then back, unpause, and it's golden. If that problem eventually gets solved (given that it happens in MPC-HC, as well, and does not seem to be an MC related issue) then it'll be a perfect solution for me. I'm very happy so far. Anything that improves upon it will be that much more icing on an already delicious cake as far as I'm concerned.
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Sounds good, thanks, seems like the folder issue had been solved afterall.
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I am not there yet (current lack of time, so still running Stereoscopic Player on an older AMD7700), but I am watching with lots of interest these developments.
I would like to express special thanks to madshi, Hendrik/nevcairiel, the beta team and regular dedicated users for their efforts in pushing back "Space, the final frontier" :)
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I would like to express special thanks to madshi, Hendrik/nevcairiel, the beta team and regular dedicated users for their efforts in pushing back "Space, the final frontier" :)
Me too. All my gear can do 3D and I have many 3D movies... Some people don't like them which is fine but I enjoy them and I think the development of this is worth a bit of work. I'm overjoyed it's happening.
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I know 3D isn't all that popular with mainstream people, but, I specifically bought my current setup in order to facilitate 3D viewing. I have a fair number of 3D titles myself and the fact that I can rip them to MKV now and add them as part of my MC library is fantastic. Add to that the incredible capabilities of madvr to improve PQ and I'm also very excited at these developments. The next step, once they feel it's ready, is going to be to open this up for blu-ray playback itself. There WILL be some limitations that Hendrick has already discussed around that functionality and no one yet knows when it'll be added, but, that's another milestone that'll be exciting, as well. Very fun times in the video playback arena!
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Me too. Im a happy bunny. 3D with Madvr on my Oled looks fantastic. If that small issue with full screen can be ironed out even better.
Thanks to all the developers it is appreciated by all us 3D JRiver users ;D
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3D with Madvr on my Oled looks fantastic.
Ouch Davey, is that OLED still going to work when you move to US? You may have to leave it behind. :(
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the tuners wont but the tv should
just deciding now if i should sell in the uk or take it with us. The company im moving to will pay to ship everything to the US.................... decisions decisions.
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the tuners wont but the tv should
Keep the TV. Too much lo$$, and you will have an excuse to purchase HDHomeruns and use JR for OTA ;D
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OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK.
Something freaky has happened for me. And I'm not sure if it has to do with the settings I've been screwing with or not, so, take all this with a "we have no idea what caused this" grain of salt.
Used to be that I'd start up MC21, start a movie in full screen, and need to take it out of full screen and back to get 3D, right? Ok. NOW, the behavior is, I open MC21, start a movie in full screen, and get 3D until I bring up the MC UI where it goes back to 2D until the MC UI hides again at which point it goes back to 3D. This is with the following settings in general:
delay playback start until render queue full
delay playback start after seeking, too
use D3D11 for presentation
use a separate device for presentation
use a separate device for DXVA processing
No windowed overlay, no FSE, no present a frame for every vsync.....the 3D settings still have everything checked. I'm very very confused. Also, everyone on Win 10 should note that there is a massive update pushed today. I've no idea if that has anything to do with it. I'm honestly not sure. This I can live with for sure though. Let's not break this behavior unless we fix it to keep 3D when the MC UI comes up. LMAO!
EDIT:
Oh, wow, it gets better and better. LOL. So taking it out of full screen, pausing, playing, and then bringing it back to full screen then allows it to stay in 3D whether the UI is up or not. This is wild. I've NO IDEA if the settings I've messed with caused this or not. Will keep digging. Maybe this will give you a place to focus, madshi.
Changing it back to the settings I had before did not change anything. I'm wondering now if the windows update changed something. In any case, this works for me. LOL
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Keep the TV. Too much lo$$, and you will have an excuse to purchase HDHomeruns and use JR for OTA ;D
I think the tv is going on a trip ;D
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... the behavior is, I open MC21, start a movie in full screen, and get 3D until I bring up the MC UI where it goes back to 2D until the MC UI hides again at which point it goes back to 3D.
Yup that is the most common variation of weirdness I get on my setup
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Yup that is the most common variation of weirdness I get on my setup
I know. But for me it had been the opposite. No 3D UNTIL the MC UI was brought up, then it'd go back to 2D. Now it's changed where I get 3D until the UI is brought up. Strange but I'll take it. This is definitely workable.
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I'm wondering now if the windows update changed something.
Maybe, just had a look at the cumulative update includes a D3D11.DLL dated 22-NOV-15 (Version 10.0.10586.17)
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Maybe, just had a look at the cumulative update includes a D3D11.DLL dated 22-NOV-15 (Version 10.0.10586.17)
Good catch. Not sure if that's a newer version than the previous OS update though. Nonetheless, if it helps, great.
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Just checked and my HTPC (that I've been testing on) is on 10.0.10240.16384 Dated 10JUL15 so it is older. Now just need to update this PC and test to see if anything changed.
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That's very interesting indeed. Good job, MS. LOL
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Next test build:
http://madshi.net/madVRmc21d.rar
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No change in behavior to what I described above. Exactly the same.
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Arggg - my HTPC has been "stuck" on 10240 for months by the look of it and Windows Update is showing no update, and a manual update to 1511 fails. Trying an ISO update....
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Well ain't that a good time.
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No change in behavior to what I described above. Exactly the same.
Well, there is a change on my PC, at least.
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Well, there is a change on my PC, at least.
Well, you also weren't having problems before, were you? LOL :) I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between builds in my case.
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FYI - there is also a new GeForce 361.75 WHQL out today
....waiting for my 1511 update to complete....then I'll upgrade the GPU driver... then test....
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Oh of course there is. LOL. I'm in the middle of watching a movie at the moment so it'll be another couple hours before I can test again.
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I paused my movie and installed the new driver. Also did not change anything. It's working exactly the same as I described earlier. 3D on startup in full screen with no windowed overlay or FSE, and loss of 3D while any MC UI component is displayed. If I pause from full screen, pull it out of full screen, and bring it back to full screen, I get 3D regardless. Weird. But fine in my book. LOL
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Also no change for me on the 3D Front
- Play in Full Screen (when changing to 3d/refresh rate is required) = Weirdness
- Play in Full Screen (when 3d/refresh rate is already set) = Perfect
- Play in Windowed then Full Screen = Perfect
Note: I see/hear 3 drops when changing into 3D mode and while it is hard to catch what is happening it appears to go into 3D mode up front. The last of the 3 drops sometimes also generates an audio crack instead of a clean. I would have expected 2 maybe (one for 3D, one for refresh rate?).
One thing that is fixed is I no longer the Black/Video/Black frames when playing a 2d video when switching back to 2d/refresh rate change is needed!
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That last one was a driver fix in the latest driver.
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Personally if I was going to update the display drivers for testing, I'd uninstall them from Add/Remove Programs then run Display Driver Uninstaller to get rid of the leftovers, then reinstall and retest.
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I tried that at one point when I was messing with different driver versions near the beginning of our testing. Made absolutely no difference whatsoever. Your advice is still not a bad idea, but, I doubt it'd change anything for Jmone and myself.
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Yeah I've tried the lot at various times as well. It simply seems to be when playback is started in Full Screen mode when the display has to change to 3D that you get the weirdness. Unfortunately, this will be the most common example.
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Did some more testing by manually turn On/Off 3d and different starting refresh rates (with the madVR options for "when playing 2d / 3d content" unchecked). It seems to be the turning on/off 3D (not the refresh rating switching) that causes the issues.
I then tested (using a batch file with some delay timing), to turn on 3D (running "C:\Program Files (x86)\NVIDIA Corporation\3D Vision\nvstlink.exe" /enable) and commencing playing a 3D Video before during and after the change had taken place. I got weirdness using this method as well, and going Full Screen Weird -> Windowed -> Fullscreen fixed it as well.
I was NOT expecting to see any weirdness commencing playback post setting 3D ON using this method but I did. I then tried manually enabling 3D and setting 23hz in the Nvidia Control panel then commencing playback and the same result. I also saw that when commencing playback that MC/madVR was still making some change (the screen would flash) even though I'd set 3D on and refresh rate to 23. By contrast if I just press Play (weird) / Stop / Play then the 2nd time there was no flash and playback was fine.
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Im still stumped. Blank video screen - mc21 keeps playing after the first 10secs of audio and it will sit there until I press stop or pause at which time it locks up.
Definitely in 3D framepacking mode as I tested with Nvidia test app prior to starting the video.
files and settings below. Anyone see anything obvious here?
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1677/24663409035_0ee50c4246_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Dzqqfg)lav-madvr (https://flic.kr/p/Dzqqfg) by Hilton (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133784514@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1499/24035257064_7967633bcc_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/CBUYxS)mc213d (https://flic.kr/p/CBUYxS) by Hilton (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133784514@N07/), on Flickr
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Well, you also weren't having problems before, were you? LOL :) I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between builds in my case.
Well, I never had the problem that showing the MC21 GUI would turn 3D on/off. But I *was* able to reproduce playback starting in 2D when directly starting playback in fullscreen (I actually tried that the first time after you guys reported that). And the new test build fixes that for me. The problem occurred with both Intel and NVidia GPUs, but not with AMD. My impression is that AMD has the most stable 3D drivers atm.
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Finally!!!!!!! ;D
After upgrading my HTPC to windows 10 and running DDU driver cleaner.... it still WASNT working... then I thought only thing I haven't done... disable the Intel iGPU in device manager.. hey presto everything working!
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Well, I never had the problem that showing the MC21 GUI would turn 3D on/off. But I *was* able to reproduce playback starting in 2D when directly starting playback in fullscreen (I actually tried that the first time after you guys reported that). And the new test build fixes that for me. The problem occurred with both Intel and NVidia GPUs, but not with AMD. My impression is that AMD has the most stable 3D drivers atm.
Ok, so, what happens to you when the MC UI is brought up after starting playback in fullscreen? Is 3D maintained? It's not for us until the UI is hidden again. Unless we pause, take it out of full screen, and then bring it back to full screen. Then it works where 3D remains even when the UI is up.
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I just tried to update my Nvidia Drive and the 3DVision portion failed.
Looks like things will stay interesting for a while .. :)
It offered to Try Again and that worked ... go figure.
Now I need to look into Windows update... because my NAS don't appear for file sharing which is a bit of a show stopper that came out of nowhere. (surprizingly that was solved my a router FW update!)
Oh well.. I live in interesting times.
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I might also upgrade to Windows 10 in the future when this becomes stable!! Will probably do it at the same time as getting an Oculus Rift and a new video card 8)
To clarify, it's not D3D11 that's missing from Windows 7, because that can be installed through Windows Update or a separate Platform Update for Windows 7 SP1. It's DirectX 11.2 that's missing, and Microsoft have said that it will be exclusive to Windows 8.1 and above.
Thank you for spending time on this, developers!
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I haven't tried the latest files posted here however after doing a clean install of the Nvidia driver I was testing my setup again.
Looking at Avatar with Exclusive mode the forced subtitles at 11 minutes displayed correctly but stayed on screen a little longer than they should have. Using Window mode they initially flash but don't display.
I guess I'll start using exclusive mode. Video was amazing by the way. I don't know if it's placebo because I've been updating things but it looked better than ever.
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Just wanted to give some feedback madshi now I have it working with madvrmc21d.
I have all the madvr 3d boxes checked.
FSE Off.
I can switch back and forth between 2d and 3d, but if doing so from theatre view, I have to drop to standard view and go back full screen to get 3d working without dropping and repeating frames.
Using MadVR video switcher I can't get back to "prior" video mode, I get left in frame packing mode.
Using MC21 video switcher works properly however. (with custom mode enabled and a 3 sec delay)
So in short it is 99% there. Just need to get 3D switching to work from theatre view without continuously dropping frames.
PS. with FSE enabled it switches properly with no problem other than dropping the first 300 or so frames before the projector locks onto the signal. But at least no need to drop to standard view if in FSE mode!
Also I get the NVidia driver dropping an overlay message when exiting 3d video back to theatre view, "this video mode is not support in 3d, try 1280x720@60hz blah blah blah" so the timing of the mode switch and disabling 3D might need to be sped up in madvr.
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Hi,
Here's a quick report from me.
Hardware: Dell Inspiron 3847 i5 3.2Ghz, 12GB Ram, SSD, PNY Nvidia GTX750 2GB through a Denon to a Sony HW30 Projector to an 82 inch screen in a dedicated theater room.
Software: Windows 10 Pro 64, MC21, Nvidia Play, Latest Madvr file from here, First Lav Nightly that worked, and clean install of yesterdays new Geforce Driver.
Setup - I removed the graphics driver and re-installed clean. Then I used the Nvidia control panel to setup both 3D and 2D outputting 1080p23. (Also told the sound part I had 7.1) I start MC21 when the PC starts and 3D is always off. I have MadVr enable 3D for 3D and have it flagged to disable 3D for 2D. (The third flag about exiting the Media software I've never used yet.) I have FSE as my video option.
So today I started up the PC and finished Ant Man (which I only have in 2D) and then watched some 3D from Sin City 2 and Frankenweenie and jumped chapters and such. Finally I loaded a 2D movie to make sure there were no problems.
And that it... I had no problems at all. So my report isn't so helpful but it totally works which makes me very happy. I don't think my 3D ever looked this good and I'm sure my 3D movies never sounded this good.
As far as I know only one of my movies so far has inverted polarity and that could become an issue for some. (Many people may have the option to change polarity using the remote for the display device.)
Also, forced subtitles have been strange. Check 11 minutes into Avatar. In windowed mode they only flash for an instant and in FSE they work but the last ones linger a little which is fine.
That's all I got... I know maybe I shouldn't post if I don't have a problem but on the other hand it must be nice to know it's working for some also.
-Brian
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Glad it's working well for you, and I am happy that you gave this positive report. I will eventually get around to trying this as it will be a HUGE improvement over how 3D is currently watched at home.
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Glad it's working well for you, and I am happy that you gave this positive report. I will eventually get around to trying this as it will be a HUGE improvement over how 3D is currently watched at home.
It is wonderful I have to agree. I've started ripping all my 3D ISOs to mkv. Yippee! :)
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if we need any inspiration, Star Wars comes to 3DBD on April 5
I have no issue with automatic change of display into and out of 3D.
The only issues I have seen are...
1. Subtitles can be strange. To investigate this I re-loaded Stereoscopic Player and to me surprize SP didn't do any better with the subtitles. I should test further by comparing to my behavior of my Sony 3D BDP which his a stand alone unit.
2. I have one title with inverted polarity (left and right eye reversed.) My display doesn't let me change this. My glasses don't let me change this. (Some displays and glasses have adjustments for this). I plan to Download MKVTools and check the header editor to see if there is any type of flag embedded in the MKV for 3D Polarity.
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Where are you finding Star Wars in 3D? Cause I've looked and even overseas I've not found it in 3D.
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Hmm it was in theaters in 3D but for now the 3D blu Ray has not been announced. Ok false alarm. Hopefully a 3D option will be listed soon.
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Hmm it was in theaters in 3D but for now the 3D blu Ray has not been announced. Ok false Force alarm. Hopefully a 3D option will be listed soon.
Fixed it for you.
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madshi released 0.90.4. It has a bunch of fixes but I still have the same full screen issue until I take it out of full screen and bring it back. Nonetheless you guys will want to upgrade.
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Hi,
Thought I would mention something, I use an Nvidia GPU and when I used to use Stereoscopic Player I could never get it working without Nvidia 3DPlay software activated. Though, I had a feeling it must be possible without it.
Yesterday I did a clean install of Windows 10 and didn't put 3DPlay back but I can still use the 3D playback without it. So it's like I figured... 3D play isn't needed anymore. Part of 3DPlay has been rolled into the gpu driver. ... maybe the only needed part. Maybe 3DPlay is still needed if you play PC games but I don't know.
-Brian
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I've been away for a couple of weeks - any changes to the Full Screen issue?
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Nope
I'm on Madvr 0.90.8 and no change. Still need to be in FSE mode for it to work without switching windows.
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Ok, tried again today with my latest sources, and I still can't reproduce the problem. For me things work just fine, when starting playback either in windowed or fullscreen mode, either with FSE mode enabled or disabled, on all NVidia, AMD and Intel. Must be some driver issues you guys are having.
There are three NVidia specific 3D problems I noticed, though:
1) The monitor must be primary, otherwise 3D doesn't work at all. No such problem with AMD and Intel.
2) In windowed mode the present queue must be 4 frames or smaller, otherwise presentation times go through the roof. No such problem with AMD and Intel (or NVidia in FSE mode).
3) With 3D OS support enabled, 2D playback in D3D11 presentation mode crashes in some NVidia DLL. No such problem with AMD and Intel.
4) As soon as enabling 3D OS support, the GPU switches to frame packed output, meaning the display activates shutter mode. AMD doesn't do that, which I find better.
Generally my impression is that AMD is a more reliable solution for 3D playback at this point in time.
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I only have one monitor (my panny plasma) connected
I've not had presentation time issues like that that I'm aware of
It's true, I've seen the 2D crashes. Stupid drivers
That is also an issue and why I don't leave 3D enabled all the time
But the issue is definitely there for me. No idea why you're not seeing it and we are. Makes it impossible to debug so I don't know how we can help you find the issue.
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If the issue is in madVR, which I doubt at this point. Does anybody who has this problem have some old AMD GPU to double check with? Or maybe you can try the built-in Intel GPU of your mainboard as a test, if there is such a thing?
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If I get some time this weekend I can enable my Intel GPU and try it.
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That would be great, thanks. Then we know if it's a GPU driver problem or not. If not, it could be an OS problem (less likely) or a madVR problem (more likely).
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I've been trying to use a few spare minutes to try it but I can't get the audio to work on the Intel GPU in MC. "Playback could not be started on the selected audio output". Um, really? I can certainly hear Windows audio out of the stupid thing! Argh.
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For a quick check you could also use MPC-HC. From what I remember, you were able to reproduce the same problem with it, once you activated the "launch in fullscreen" option and dragged the video file to the MPC-HC icon.
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I shut off bitstreaming audio. But the video is unwatchable. It basically is dropping frames all over the place. I'm still trying to get it stable. It does seem to work for 3D though. Going full screen from the start, 3D works even when the MC UI is brought up.
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yea, so, that's unwatchable for sure but it does indeed make it work from the get-go with full screen 3D. Now to fix everything and put it back to normal. lmao.
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Ok, thanks for taking the time to test that. So it seems to be confirmed as an NVidia driver issue.
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The only thing this confirms is that its not an issue with Intel. Different drivers react differently to different ways of doing things, so it might still be solved by doing something differently.
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I agree with Hendrick. Intel certainly seems to handle things differently, sure, but, it doesn't necessarily prove there's an nVidia driver bug at the heart of the problem. If that were the case, I'd expect to see the issue on EVERY nVidia system with that particular driver. This could be some crazy interaction with windows 10 + nVidia driver + timing issue for all we know. One thing I've not tried yet and will when I get a chance is to eliminate the receiver from the equation and send the output of the nVidia card directly out to the panny plasma. Doubt it'll make any difference but it's worth a shot.
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It could be specific to Windows 10. But given the information I have it does appear likely to me that it's a driver issue. madVR seems to believe to be rendering 3D, so seemingly all the APIs seem to return success, while still only rendering 2D. This doesn't sound like it would likely by my fault. Anyway, it might still be possible to work around it. But without being able to reproduce the problem, I don't know how.
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Well, there's one idea that I have as a work around but it's incredibly nasty and I'm not sure you're going to like it, even as an "optional fix for those having problems". When playback first starts, can we get a build that temporarily switches to FSE (even if it's disabled) and then goes back to whatever window mode they have set? Forcing FSE when initializing the display may allow it to continue working once you take it out.
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Well, there's one idea that I have as a work around but it's incredibly nasty and I'm not sure you're going to like it, even as an "optional fix for those having problems". When playback first starts, can we get a build that temporarily switches to FSE (even if it's disabled) and then goes back to whatever window mode they have set? Forcing FSE when initializing the display may allow it to continue working once you take it out.
Why don't you just play 3D movies in FSE if that fixes it?
Could setup a madVR profile to switch only 3D into FSE.
I build a new HTPC last week, I didn't try yet if 3D still works properly on that one. I don't run Win10 on it though, too many weird issues still with media playback and it wouldn't benefit from any of the improvements.
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Just retest with the latest LAV Nightly, madVR, Hotfix nvidia driver, windows updates etc. Same as before:
- Exclusive Mode works
- Windowed mode is fine if you are already in 3D but not if switching from 2D (unless you bring up the MC Menu then it is fine)
Couple of new observations.
1) when I start 3d Playback it is "stalled". I have to do a Pause/Play to get it going
2) when I bring use the MC TheaterView OSD, the present queue drops to 1 of 2 and playback is jerky (but no reported dropped frames or presentation glitches). When the OSD disapears the present queue goes back to normal (tried both the std 8 and also 4) and playback is fine
Do you want any logs?
Thanks
Nathan
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...also happy to use Profiles for now. What is the Logic for 3D, eg I have setup two profiles called "3D" and "2D":
If 3D??? "3D"
Else "2D"
Edit: I was just missing the brackets, the syntax is:
if (3D) "3D" else "2D"
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Here is the log showing the stall when playing 3D - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59011278/madVR%20-%20log%20-3D%20Stall.zip
You should see:
- Playback starts and screen changing (you can hear the video is running)
- when 3D has been activated the playback is stalled
- left for 10 sec then did a pause/play and playback started
I also waited another 10sec and did some OSD to show the present queue change to 2 but this time I did not notice any jerkiness, so.....? on this one.
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I don't have the playback stall.
I also still haven't investigated what the "hotfix" is.
I think I must have a magical video card because it always works so well.
For my own use I've been staying in FSE mode all the time and watching a lot of my 3D. It's been perfect.
I did take the GPU out to investigate the intel 4600 HD and it couldn't do much with 3D. It was choppy. Maybe I don't have enough CPU to go without the GPU.
Anyways, Nvidia user here that's just loving it.
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Why don't you just play 3D movies in FSE if that fixes it?
Could setup a madVR profile to switch only 3D into FSE.
I build a new HTPC last week, I didn't try yet if 3D still works properly on that one. I don't run Win10 on it though, too many weird issues still with media playback and it wouldn't benefit from any of the improvements.
I don't love FSE mode though. My work around right now is to take it out of full screen and put it back. Then it all works fine. I was just thinking that when initializing a 3d playback that if you could do it in FSE and then like, say, 3 seconds later switch it off....that would be sweet if it worked.
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FYI - madVR v0.90.9 is out and it fixed my stalled playback in 3D mode (still get the stutter when bringing up the Theaterview OSD in 3D but it is not a biggie).
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Just watched Martian in 3D ... looked pretty good!
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So latest lav filters nightly adds SSIF support which is a step closer to being able to open up a blu-ray and going to town. However, I can't get the SSIF to play in MC21 at all. If I open it using file, open media file it doesn't do anything. Can we get SSIF support added?
Also, my experience so far is that I'm not able to play the SSIF file in 3D. LAV video is showing me the active decoder is avcodec. Not sure what's going on with that yet.
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The next version will recognize SSIF files.
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Thanks, Hendrik! Much appreciated.
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The latest LAV Filters nightly also supports reading straight from a Blu-ray disc or mounted ISO now, no need to rip or find the appropriate SSIF file.
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This is great for those that just want to put in a BD-3D disk and "play" it. Well done. Unfortunately I'm away with work so can not play yet :(
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This is awesome! Now if only I didn't need to wait 3 months for my projector and othe HT stuff to be shipped to me to play with this stuff. 😰
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Only missing piece now would be to figure out if there is something we can do about the weird 3D behavior on some systems.
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That's awesome. I'll check that out soon. Thanks!
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Tested. Working perfectly. This is spectacular. Thanks for this!
If we can ever figure out the 3D issue with my setup that'd be great. If not, I can live with it going back to 2D while the MC UI is displayed or take it out of full screen and bring it back to make it work fully.
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The latest LAV Filters nightly also supports reading straight from a Blu-ray disc or mounted ISO now, no need to rip or find the appropriate SSIF file.
This is truly excellent. I have so much trouble with some 3D Blu-rays, even using an old version of PowerDVD. If the movie will just play in MC, I can get rid of PowerDVD.
I assume that, as above, this is still just the main video that gets played, and no menu will be provided in the foreseeable future.
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I assume that, as above, this is still just the main video that gets played, and no menu will be provided in the foreseeable future.
Of course.
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I would suggest we may want another A/V Sync Correction setting for 3D because some displays might create more lag in 3D mode.
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Finally had time this evening to watch an entire movie in 3D, and it worked beautifully for me on Windows 8.1 with a NVIDIA Geforce GTX 960. Using D3D11 FSE in madVR, but also briefly tried to exit FSE and 3D remained active, so at least that.
madVR turned 3D on when needed and back off when the movie ended (with the appropriate settings to have it do that), so no manual intervention required whatsoever.
Now to check if there are "better" 3D glasses for my TV, the ones that came with it are a bit tight around the ears.
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Sounds good! FWIW, I've imported a couple of Panasonic TY-ER3D4MU from the USA (via Ebay). Pretty cheap, and the lightest (27g only) rechargable glasses I've found. Work fine with my JVC X35 projector.
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Maybe I should just bite the bullet and turn FSE back on and forget about the stupid bug. lol. I just don't like the FSE transition on my system...it's almost a second or more delay in switching between modes. But yea, other than that, this rocks completely. VERY pleased with this functionality. I have a very good library of 3D movies and being able to use MC21 with madvr processing is incredible. Will likely check out Avatar over the weekend.
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My system is a fully dedicated HTPC, so I only use the remote control interface, ie. never the display view GUI at the top of the screen, so FSE works perfectly fine.
That definitely helps. ;)
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Mine's dedicated, too, and I tend to do the same...theater view with an MCE remote. So I guess it's not all bad if I go that route.
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Yeah, I've never seen Avatar yet, because I wanted to watch it in 3D and couldn't until now. Now's finally the time... :)
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Oh hell yea. In 3D it's good.....in madvr 3D it'll be spectacular. I can't wait.
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Glasses seem to make a difference, not only in the degree of ugly and form, but also in "quality". I've both a Epson PJ (IR) and a Samsung TV (RF) so got some glasses of EBay that will do both IR and RF. They work OK but are harder to get the initial pairing going plus I sometimes see 3D artefacts that I have not noticed on the genuine OEM pair.
That said, the Martian looked stunning. Infact I'd say that FramePacked 3D looks way better than what we get at the theatres. The other thing I've noticed is that 3D makes my TV (65") look "smaller". Up till recently I've not purchased BD-3D deliberately but sometimes got the the 3D version in the "pack". I've gone back through some of my disks and found I have 8 so far, so probably have another few.
I'm about to test the BD-3D support but the results looks great. Nice work gents!
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Oh on my Panny plasma the 3D frame packed absolutely looks better than the theater. At 65" I find it's a tad small but not horrible. Depends on where you sit in my living room. But the 3D quality is phenominal and with madvr...yeaaaaaaa :)
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I got mine working well enough in FSE mode. Nathan your welcome to come over and watch a movie on a bigger screen if you like. I finished putting new blackout curtains and blinds in last night! :)
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PS. Avatar looks stunning! 3D is definitely better in MC21 than TMT, Xbone and PS3. It's no competition!
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The fact that it beats the PS3 is the nice part. That to me is really a blu-ray "gold standard" in terms of consumer electronics. Are there better? Sure. Oppo comes to mind. But the PS3 is a reference platform. Madvr has consistently beat it in 2D all along. Now we have a gold standard for 3D with madvr, as well. VERY pleased. All enabled by Hendrik's amazing work on LAV filters. Stick the disc in, and have at it.
Although, Hendrik's going to kill me now. LMAO. Any way to have an option to force 2D when playing back a 3D disc? Just a little option that might set MC above and beyond for players. I'm saying when you're prompted to play the disc back, have a "play in 2D" or something as a selection.
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You can simply disable 3D support in madVR, then the movie will be played in 2D.
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No I know you can do that but that's not quite as simple as a "play this in 2D" when you stick the disc in. There are a myriad of ways I can work around it. I was just thinking as a nice option to have.
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I'll have to think about that. It would require knowing if something is 3D before, otherwise showing the option would feel rather silly. While this is relatively easy for actual Blu-ray discs, people might also want to be able to do that with MKVs, where this isn't so easy.
And it would only ever work when the built-in LAV is used, no custom source filter (even if its also LAV), since then our runtime config wouldn't catch...mmm
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Sounds good! I've also got a 100" screen for the PJ but I have to set it up all the time so it is a PITA. Where is the 100" OLED Flat Screens??
Tested BD-3D both as a Stucture Rip and from ODD. Works perfectly!
On another note, I've set up madVR Profiles to use FSE only for 3D. It takes about 10sec for all the display rate / 3d mode switching to happen. My impression is that there are some unnecessary switching modes/refresh going on as I'd expect just a couple (one for refresh rate, one for 3D) but I see "more" when having MC/madVR do it stuff VS switching it manually. It works perfectly once it is playing but boy is it ugly in the initial setup. I'll make a little video showing what it does on my system.
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FYI here is the video (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59011278/3DSwitching.mp4)from my phone (a bit shaky) showing the 3D Startup. You can hear the audio drops several times as modes are changed. Is this what you get?
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I'll have to think about that. It would require knowing if something is 3D before, otherwise showing the option would feel rather silly. While this is relatively easy for actual Blu-ray discs, people might also want to be able to do that with MKVs, where this isn't so easy.
And it would only ever work when the built-in LAV is used, no custom source filter (even if its also LAV), since then our runtime config wouldn't catch...mmm
As you say, it is easy for BD (an MC does the recognition already and sets the filetype to bdmv3d). On MKV could it be detected on import to the library (as most MKV will be imported prior to playback)?
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So how can I get this wonderful edition to MC working? I have DVDFab Passkey to decrypt Blu-ray discs
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Have a read of the OP as it also has a link the the post if you don't mind and feel comfortable in testing. Otherwise, I would imagine that Hendrik will push it out as part of a MC release at the appropriate time.
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Have a read of the OP as it also has a link the the post if you don't mind and feel comfortable in testing. Otherwise, I would imagine that Hendrik will push it out as part of a MC release at the appropriate time.
Thanks, happy to beta test on my AMD ATI 6450 based video card that works in Cyberlink PowerDVD.
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As you say, it is easy for BD (an MC does the recognition already and sets the filetype to bdmv3d). On MKV could it be detected on import to the library (as most MKV will be imported prior to playback)?
Will probably just make it available for bdmv3d and mk3d. Not sure yet if it will auto-detect 3d mkvs and switch the type to mk3d on its own, but you can always rename if such a feature is important to you.
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I agree, though isn't the use of the "mkv3d" file type "old" and that MKV stores the 3D info in it's header these days?
https://www.matroska.org/technical/specs/index.html#StereoMode
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I agree, though isn't the use of the "mkv3d" file type "old" and that MKV stores the 3D info in it's header these days?
https://www.matroska.org/technical/specs/index.html#StereoMode
It has always stored such info, because you don't know what 3D format it is, but that doesn't mean you can't name the files that way or change the file type in the library.
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Congratulations all for the very nice progress achieved.
I have not yet had time to test this new functionality but at spare time followed with great interest this thread.
I'll have to think about that. It would require knowing if something is 3D before, otherwise showing the option would feel rather silly. While this is relatively easy for actual Blu-ray discs, people might also want to be able to do that with MKVs, where this isn't so easy.
On my collection, I noticed that on all of my ripped videos (all are MKV), [Playback Info] was always empty. Regarding the last few posts:
I have used the [Playback Info] and the .mk3d file extensions in the following way:
- framed packed MKV: changed file extension to .mk3d (to auto launch Stereoscopic player from MC) and [Playback Info]="3D MVC"
- SBS MKV: standard .mkv extension and [Playback Info]="3D SBS"
- OU MKV: standard .mkv extension and [Playback Info]="3D OU"
I have a view for everything that has [Playback Info] start with "3D" and another for [Playback Info] starting with "3D MVC" (my best quality rips). And the 2D videos are the ones where [Playback Info] does not start with "3D"... I tagged SBS and OU for sake of completeness, at the moment I still need to set up the projector manually for the latter two.
Again, thank you !
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PS. Avatar looks stunning! 3D is definitely better in MC21 than TMT, Xbone and PS3. It's no competition!
I thought so too... I was thinking ... golly, it's never looked this good.
I guess I saw it in IMAX a loooooong time ago and the memory of how that was is gone by now for the most part.
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I have used the [Playback Info] and the .mk3d file extensions in the following way:
- framed packed MKV: changed file extension to .mk3d (to auto launch Stereoscopic player from MC) and [Playback Info]="3D MVC"
- SBS MKV: standard .mkv extension and [Playback Info]="3D SBS"
- OU MKV: standard .mkv extension and [Playback Info]="3D OU"
MC will overwrite Playback Info when it actually has some information to store there (ie. you make changes to audio streams or subtitles, or some other playback related things), its not a good place to store your own info I'm afraid.
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Thank you Hendrik, good to know. Easily corrected.
Do you have any suggestion for a suitable tag ? I have found this system very convenient.
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You could just create your own.
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Worked out what the issue is with not switching to 3D properly on my system without switching to standard view and back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The theatre view skin I was using! When I switched back to default theatre view skin it switched in and out of 3D without being in FSE mode!!!!!!!!!!
PS. I was using Rapier Fusion theatre view skin. - I also changed standard view back to default skin from black on black, so I'll check if it was standard view or theatre view skin that made the difference. My money is on Theatre view.
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Which Skin are you using? I'm on Obsidian
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Nup spoke too soon. Must have been an anomaly! Tried switching skins back and forth again and I couldn't get it to work in 3D without pushing the mouse to the top of the screen to get the playback controls to flash up first.
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:-[ There must be something we both do that the others don't....
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Don't know if this helps Madshi pin down the issue, but when I have a windows 10 action center notification pop up in the bottom right corner it also triggers 3D mode.
Discovered this by accident after a reboot and a notification popped up just as I started a 3D movie. IT started in 2D just like every other time before, but once the notification pop up disappeared 3D started working.
So I think it's a screen application focus issue. Something isn't giving video control to madVR until you switch away and back.
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You could be onto something. A simple Alt-Tab also fixes it (you get a 1 x Presentation Glitch, and a few dropped frames but then you are in 3D mode from then on). Future Alt-Tabs are fine and don't cause any issues.
Also - I do notice that I also may need a 3D Lip Sync Option as well but it could be a result of the 2d-3d issue above as I've seen it way out of sync at times when doing this testing in Window Overlay to get 3D but.... one thing at a time I guess.
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The way I see it, Windows 10 is just borked with 3D. I know why my HTPC stays on 8.1 =p
Regarding 3D A/V sync option, unfortunately MC doesn't know when 3D output is being used. It could possibly ask madVR about this. madshi, is there an info property, say in IMadVRInfo, to tell me if framepacked 3d output is active?
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:-[ There must be something we both do that the others don't....
You're both Australian.
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You're both Australian.
;D
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Thanks why we needed the ability to rotate the video
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Hi,
Since this has worked for me pretty much from the start, I have to decide how this new ability affects my library.
I think I will keep both a 3D and a separate 2D copy of most everything. There are a few 3D titles I own that I don't believe I will bother making a 2D copy of because I don't believe I will ever be interested in watching them in 2D... But I suppose maybe eventually... they just won't be a priority.
Previously when I was using an external program from within MC, I would choose 2D or 3D from a single file..... But I don't want to re-create that option. I would rather treat the 3D as a separate entity.
-Brian
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Since space is cheap, thats what I do. Rip both 2D and 3D of the Blu-rays. Often there will actually be a second Blu-ray in the same package with a dedicated 2D version on it, which will have a higher 2D bitrate than the 2D part of the 3D version, so I get ever so little higher quality when ripping the proper 2D version. ;)
Planning on buying a new 4K HDR TV this year. Having 3D would be a bonus, but since many 2016 TVs don't actually have 3D support anymore, I would also just give that up when everything else is perfect otherwise.
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FYI here is the video (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59011278/3DSwitching.mp4)from my phone (a bit shaky) showing the 3D Startup. You can hear the audio drops several times as modes are changed. Is this what you get?
Yup I get the same.
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Madshi and Hendrik...I watched avatar from the Blu-ray directly last night and have some feedback. Subtitles didn't work for me at all. The first one flashed and then none of them ever came up again. That was weird. Then about an hour and a half in it went into slideshow mode where it just went nuts and looked like a slide show. Stopped playback and restarted it and it was fine after that. Beautiful pq.
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The subtitles should be fixed in next madVR I think. I had the slideshow as well once though.
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The way I see it, Windows 10 is just borked with 3D. I know why my HTPC stays on 8.1 =p
Regarding 3D A/V sync option, unfortunately MC doesn't know when 3D output is being used. It could possibly ask madVR about this. madshi, is there an info property, say in IMadVRInfo, to tell me if framepacked 3d output is active?
This is not great news. I am on Windows 7 and was planning on doing the W10 upgrade that MS wants me to do sooooo bad to get 3D. Now it looks like I shouldn't.
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This is not great news. I am on Windows 7 and was planning on doing the W10 upgrade that MS wants me to do sooooo bad to get 3D. Now it looks like I shouldn't.
Presumably it also works fine for some, but since my media playback system is dedicated to that particular task, and nothing else, it also doesn't benefit from anything Windows 10 has to offer, so I rather play it safe since its not quite as "proven" yet as 8.1.
I run 10 on my main PC without problems, but its not connected to a 3D TV.
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Madshi and Hendrik...I watched avatar from the Blu-ray directly last night and have some feedback. Subtitles didn't work for me at all. The first one flashed and then none of them ever came up again. That was weird. Then about an hour and a half in it went into slideshow mode where it just went nuts and looked like a slide show. Stopped playback and restarted it and it was fine after that. Beautiful pq.
I noticed the subtitle flash with Avatar but using Exclusive mode fixed it.
Also, checking Subtitles Optimized for Performance not Quality may or may not have an effect... perhaps.. .I just don't actually know ... ok ... it's just a wild guess.. whatever.
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The subtitles should be fixed in next madVR I think. I had the slideshow as well once though.
Thanks for the feedback. We'll have to see what's going on with the slideshow thing but it takes a while for it to happen.
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I noticed the subtitle flash with Avatar but using Exclusive mode fixed it.
Also, checking Subtitles Optimized for Performance not Quality may or may not have an effect... perhaps.. .I just don't actually know ... ok ... it's just a wild guess.. whatever.
I'm running FSE already. Subtitles did not display at all after the initial quick flash.
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Presumably it also works fine for some, but since my media playback system is dedicated to that particular task, and nothing else, it also doesn't benefit from anything Windows 10 has to offer, so I rather play it safe since its not quite as "proven" yet as 8.1.
I run 10 on my main PC without problems, but its not connected to a 3D TV.
I was going to do an image of my drive before upgrading so maybe I'll just try 10 and if it doesn't work re-install the image then upgrade to 8.1.
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I was going to do an image of my drive before upgrading so maybe I'll just try 10 and if it doesn't work re-install the image then upgrade to 8.1.
I tried Windows 10 back in November and had big problems with the Nvidia driver. Reverted to 7. Now I've just put a new PC together, installed Win 7 and activated, then immediately forced the Windows 10 upgrade choosing to keep nothing (ie lose all settings and apps). I should have a clean Windows 10 by that route I hope. I installed the latest Nvida drivers, installed JR Mediacenter... all working nicely. Will try 3D in due course.
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Presumably it also works fine for some, ....
I guess we will see more reports (one way or another) when it become part of the release cycle. Who know, maybe it is only the Oz version of Windows 10. ;D
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I have a newbie question. How do I get the 3D to engage?
I've got a 3D mkv file that I downloaded a while ago. It's side-by-side, so I can put my projector in a mode where it understands that, but it'd be so much better if the renderer kicked my video card into 3d mode and displayed it that way.
I'm assuming that's what this change can do, but I can't figure it out.
Thanks for any help.
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I've got a 3D mkv file that I downloaded a while ago. It's side-by-side
Such kind of files are not supported. Only proper 3D Blu-ray content is, either straight from disc or ripped with MakeMKV.
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Such kind of files are not supported. Only proper 3D Blu-ray content is, either straight from disc or ripped with MakeMKV.
Is there any hope for some sort of back door?
I've watched the movie (in 3d!) no problem. So it's possible. By the way, it's Avatar.
It's just that I have to flip my projector to understand the side-by-side and it'd be so much neater if that weren't necessary.
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Support for such side-by-side encoded files is planned for a future madVR version.
However, please be aware that you're losing image quality because the Blu-Ray originally had true 1920x1080 pixels per eye, while your file probably only has half that.
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Support for such side-by-side encoded files is planned for a future madVR version.
However, please be aware that you're losing image quality because the Blu-Ray originally had true 1920x1080 pixels per eye, while your file probably only has half that.
Did you get a chance to watch your copy of Avatar on 3D blu-ray over the weekend? Just curious if your experience matches mine at all.
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No. I needed to update my HTPC for that to work, and while trying to do that I might have fried it. Waiting for a new cooler to arrive tomorrow.
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Oh geeze that sucks. Hope you get it up and running quickly. I'm curious if you have the same slide show issue Hendrik and I saw when you watch a full movie. It takes a while to happen, at least for me, but, it just gets to a point where it's done. I'm wondering if there's a memory leak somewhere but since I was watching rather than playing I didn't take the time to diagnose it.
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There's nothing I can say about that because I've zero information. Not even stats from OSD.
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There's nothing I can say about that because I've zero information. Not even stats from OSD.
It was in the middle of a movie for me so I didn't really feel like investigating, but it just started dropping frames and the present queue didn't fill anymore. All others were fine IIRC.
Another movie held up through the full thing without issues.
Next time it happens I'll pay more attention.
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Well, when I'm in movie watching mode myself I don't usually analyze why things go wrong, either, so I fully understand it. Present queue being the only one in trouble is interesting. A log would be great, but if the problem only occurs after a long time the log will already have flooded your harddisk twice over... :-X
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Just trying the new madVR/lav release and got another hint on the "starting in 2D when in Windowed mode". When I install a new version of madVR, windows10 will ask for my Admin password at first playback time. It then goes into Windowed 3D just fine. The 2nd time a run (no password prompt) it then has the "starting in 2D when in Windowed mode" issue.
Also, Subs are correctly rendered depth! I did get some issues with them not working at one point (or just a quick flash) + the Black text rendering that other have reported for OSD and Subs.
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I'll run Avatar tomorrow while I'm working and see if it happens again. If it does, I'll try to at least check the OSD and see what's going on.
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Just trying the new madVR/lav release and got another hint on the "starting in 2D when in Windowed mode". When I install a new version of madVR, windows10 will ask for my Admin password at first playback time. It then goes into Windowed 3D just fine. The 2nd time a run (no password prompt) it then has the "starting in 2D when in Windowed mode" issue.
Also, Subs are correctly rendered depth! I did get some issues with them not working at one point (or just a quick flash) + the Black text rendering that other have reported for OSD and Subs.
I just installed madvr 0.90.11 and didn't get prompted for password on playback. My HTPC user account is an admin account however and I also run the madVR install.bat as admin when doing an upgrade.
Don't know if that makes any difference.
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Yeah I run my HTPC from the "Guest" account so any changes get UAC prompt.
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I tried a bit of trouble shooting tonight and didn't get anywhere in the end, but I did make an observation.
I did a safe mode DDU driver uninstall for Nvidia and reinstalled after a reboot without the installing the 3dvision controller and driver.
The behaviour was different when starting 3D. MC would jump to 3D SBS mode on playback without the 3dvision driver installed.
As soon as I installed the 3dvision driver the same issues of starting in 2D instead of 3D framepacked mode occurred.
I tried uninstalling MC deleting library and reg settings, rebooting and then reinstalling MC clean and just changing 1 setting to enable ROHQ mode.
Played a video to trigger the LAV and madVR config then closed MC and copied the latest madvr and LAV builds across.
Restarted and tried to play a 3D mkv and the same 2D problem occurred.
So, basically it looks like it's an Nvidia driver problem with my GTX760 3D framepacking switching, because LAV and madVR are detecting and switching to a 3D mode as proven with my initial testing when it turned on 3D SBS when the 3dvision driver wasn't installed. (and with a fresh install of MC with defaults)
Another note. The subtitles now work in 3D but appear to get out of sync.
PS. This is probably a MC21.0.49 bug that's been around a few versions but the Theatre view FPS setting is being ignored. I tried changing it and MC is ignoring the new setting.
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I have a newbie question. How do I get the 3D to engage?
I've got a 3D mkv file that I downloaded a while ago. It's side-by-side, so I can put my projector in a mode where it understands that, but it'd be so much better if the renderer kicked my video card into 3d mode and displayed it that way.
I'm assuming that's what this change can do, but I can't figure it out.
Thanks for any help.
BTW Matt,
SBS and all other 3D modes other than Framepacking don't usually have a method to notify the display that its 3D SBS, top/bottom or interleaved. So you'll have to switch manually to 3D.
Framepacked 3D is the only 3D mode that officially supports detection in most display devices.
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Another note. The subtitles now work in 3D but appear to get out of sync
I noticed that on some longer testing as well, it'll probably require changes in MCs subtitle rendering to use a more appropriate subtitle rendering API with madVR. Its been a long term TODO task, but never really had any good reason to really do it.
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BTW Matt,
SBS and all other 3D modes other than Framepacking don't usually have a method to notify the display that its 3D SBS, top/bottom or interleaved. So you'll have to switch manually to 3D.
Framepacked 3D is the only 3D mode that officially supports detection in most display devices.
When you buy a 3D Blu-ray movie, does it include the "framepacked" and "SBS methods" - or is it just one type or the other?
How can you tell which one it uses (MediInfo?)
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When you buy a 3D Blu-ray movie, does it include the "framepacked" and "SBS methods" - or is it just one type or the other?
How can you tell which one it uses (MediInfo?)
Blu-rays are always the same. The only source of SBS movies is the internet.
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I'm running Avatar again in the background to see if I can repro the slideshow issue from this weekend. Using 0.9.12 and latest LAV nightly. Hoping the subtitles show up, as well. Will report back in a couple hours.
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Still not getting any subs. Is there something in MC I need to mess with to get them to show up? Cause I get none at all.
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The only source of SBS movies is the internet.
Just for the record, I've got one DVD that contains some game trailers, and one of those is available in 2D and 3D both. The 3D version is stored as side-by-side, too.
It's 30 fps, though, so if I understood correctly, even if I could tell madVR to interpret the image data as 3D, I wouldn't be able to output it directly (I seem to remember that madVR only outputs frame-packed 3D at 24 Hz, and I don't have a 3D-TV to verify that myself).
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Hendrik, something is wrong with subtitles. On Avatar, if I select the second english sub track, which should be the Navi language only forced subs, I get zero subs showing up. If I select the first english sub track that contains subs for everything, then they display properly. Any ideas on what could be happening?
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Ok, I got the slideshow situation going on right now. The queues are full. Dropped frames are incrementing very fast. Up to 3k+ so far. Repeated frames are at 2700 and increasing. Rendering time is 47ms and increasing up to 56ms. Present is 0.12 ms. I'm 1:10 into the movie when it happened this time. CPU usage from task man shows MC at ~40% with about 680 megs used. Now sure what other info I can provide that'd be even remotely helpful.
UPDATE: Paused to take a full reading of the OSD for you
display: 23.97
composition rate: 23.97
clock deviation: 0.00073%
smooth motion off
d3d11 exclusive(3d)
NV12 8 bit 4:2:0 (3d)
movie 23.976fps
1 frame drop every 3.22 minutes
movie 1920x1080 16:9
draw 0,0,1920,1080
touch window from inside
chroma > super-xbr
vsync 41.72ms, frame 41.71ms
matrix BT.709 (best guess)
primaries BT.709 (best guess)
limited range (best guess)
deinterlacing off (says upstream)
decoder queue 45-45 /16
upload queue 8-8/8
render queue 8-8/8
present queue 1-1/8
dropped frames 7493
repeated frames 7665
delayed frames 0
presentation glitches 137 (from moving in and out of FSE most likely)
average stats
rendering 20.72 ms
present 0.12ms
max stats (5s)
rendering 0.0 ms
present 0.25 ms
Rendering times went down cause I paused it to read this out.
Update 2: Ooook. Leaving it paused that long apparently did something cause when I hit play it started playing normal again. Well that's odd cause it didn't do that the other night unless I didn't pause long enough.
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Hmmmm... How can the render queue be full if the render time is 47-56ms? Sounds quite weird...
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That's a GREAT question isn't it? LOL. It made NO sense to me at all.
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Maybe I should extend the logging solution in such a way that it overwrites old data, so that we can log "forever" and then simply stop playback when the problem occurs.
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Not a bad idea, actually. Cause you really only want the log from where a problem occurs. Great for those that occur in the beginning. Not so great for those that occur an hour and some change into playback. If you had a size limit that simply started dropping old logging data once it hit that point it'd allow those of us with this kind of problem to help troubleshoot it. Then again, with the luck I have, a debug version won't show the same issue. LOL
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Hmmmm... How can the render queue be full if the render time is 47-56ms? Sounds quite weird...
I've had the same issue half way through a movie as well again today. All queues fill except present, which was 0-1/12 in D3D11 FSE.
Had to stop and restart for it to continue.
Also, half the time I start playing, present queue gets stuck at 7-9/12 with constant repeat frames and presentation glitches, other half it works flawlessly at 11-12/12
On top of that, starting playback takes literally 30 seconds before an image shows up when I tell madVR to enable 3D mode. Not sure that can be improved, but it could really benefit from some. ;)
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That's Windows 8.1, Hendrik, right?
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That's Windows 8.1, Hendrik, right?
Yep. NVIDIA Geforce GTX 960.
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Yea, that's my experience on Windows 10 almost to a T. I would argue that I may have missed the render queue being empty during playback when the issue was happening and it filled again when i paused. But I checked the queues and they all looked full at the time of playback. So that's strange. nVidia 680GTX.
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My render queue remained full, it was just the present queue that bottomed out. Considering it barely managed to show one frame per second (if at all), it would have had plenty time to render enough frames. =p
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Yea, I mean you saw my render times. 50ms seems....you know, a bit high. LOL. Something bad is definitely happening an hour to an hour and a half into playback.
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Do you have a screensaver trying to activate after an hour?
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Oh god no. Dedicated HTPC/Gaming machine. Nothing like that.
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My screen-off timer is 10 minutes on that system, not an hour, and MC suppresses any such things anyway. Its probably some kind of fluke with presenting the stereo video, maybe driver related, who knows. Its all unexplored land here!
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Is that not the fun though?? :D Exciting times for 3D.
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I don't suppose either of you has an AMD GPU to double check with? Anyway, I'm going to rework the logging, so I can get some logs for this problem.
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Not going to help much but here's a quick 1min clip of my system getting stuck in 2D until bumping the top MC control panel on for a sec with the mouse.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1719/25184388716_843d78223d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Enszmy)Mc Madvr 3D (https://flic.kr/p/Enszmy) by Hilton (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133784514@N07/), on Flickr
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Yup, same for me
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I don't suppose either of you has an AMD GPU to double check with? Anyway, I'm going to rework the logging, so I can get some logs for this problem.
No I don't.
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Hendrik, something is wrong with subtitles. On Avatar, if I select the second english sub track, which should be the Navi language only forced subs, I get zero subs showing up. If I select the first english sub track that contains subs for everything, then they display properly. Any ideas on what could be happening?
I have the new subtitle interface with madVR almost done, that should hopefully solve all those problems.
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I have the new subtitle interface with madVR almost done, that should hopefully solve all those problems.
Awesome, thank you!
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so question for all of you since the thread doesn't seem clear:
If I run Windows 10 on some good hardware with an Intel integrated chipset (Intel Iris chipset in a late model mac mini) can it decode MVC 3D?
Or do I need to have either an nVidia or ATI chipset?
(and it still amazes me a $50 Raspberry Pi2 can do this in hardware on OpenElec, but I would prefer JRiver for several other reasons)
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If I run Windows 10 on some good hardware with an Intel integrated chipset (Intel Iris chipset in a late model mac mini) can it decode MVC 3D?
Should be fine as long as the CPU isn't too weak to decode the video. Hardware decoding for 3D might come at a later time, but not yet.
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I'm getting Presentation Glitches (and dropped frames) in both Windows Exclusive and Overlay. I've dropped rendering to just Jinc and I see that my rendering queue is always showing around 13ms but the Max 5sec stats is always around around 50ms.
What settings are you guys using (I have a 960)?
Thanks
Nathan
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Try dropping the exclusive mode number of frames and see if that helps.
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Thanks - that did help
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Ok, after upgrading my HTPC to Windows 10 and plugging an NVidia GPU in, I can reproduce the problems you guys reported with starting playback in non-FSE fullscreen mode. This does not happen on my development PC (Windows 8.1), though, and it's a very weird behaviour. From all I can see, it's an NVidia driver issue. I've tried several things to work around it (changes in the D3D11 initialization order etc), but nothing worked. I suppose forcing initialization in non-fullscreen windowed mode and then switching to fullscreen windowed mode shortly afterwards might work, but I'm hesitant to add such a bad hack.
I've also found that FSE mode runs with MUCH better reliability and lower rendering times in Windows 10 with NVidia, when playing 3D frame packed content. So I'd really strongly recommend that you guys setup a profile for 3D which enables FSE mode just for 3D, if you absolutely don't want to use it for 2D.
Another thing: I've found that the NVidia driver produces very weird and non-spec-conform D3D11 presentation statistics during 3D frame packed output, which caused all sorts of playback issues on my PC. I can say that this is *definitely* a driver issue, my own logs pretty clearly show that the GPU driver reports bad timing data, which screws up the whole glitch logic which Microsoft recommends to use for D3D11 presentation. :-\
So in v0.90.13 I've now added a new D3D11 sub option called "use alternative glitch handling mode". This option modifies the D3D11 presentation to behave much more similar to my D3D9 presentation logic. On my PC at least with this option enabled I get reliably smooth playback in both fullscreen windowed (after switching in and out) and FSE mode. However, in windowed mode I have to dumb the scaling options down a lot to make it run really smoothly. FSE mode allows much stronger settings.
I hope that the new "use alternative glitch handling mode" will solve the 3D playback reliability issues you reported (movie starting to drop frames like crazy after 1 hour playback or so)?
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Awesome! Thanks!! I'll check it out tomorrow when I get a chance.
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Thanks Madshi! I can confirm that the latest release of madVR/Lav using FSE:
- Sub Depth now works on BD (note: MakeMKV rips don't so I presume such rips "lose" depth info?)
- Much more stable with the new presentation glitch handling
- Can also now run "better" algos (in my case Jinc+AR+LL etc) without dropping frames
Nice release and glad you can confirm the Full Screen Windows Issue
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- Sub Depth now works on BD (note: MakeMKV rips don't so I presume such rips "lose" depth info?)
That is correct. MKVs dont contain this information. We could define a way to tag this, but unless we can get a line to a MakeMKV developer to get this done, it would be a lot of tedious manual labor, especially since I know of no analyzer that just shows this information for manual tagging.
For now the best way to rip a 3D movie is probably going to be in BDMV structure, as no special metadata is lost this way. Its unfortunate that such rips then have problems identifying forced subtitles and such. Just no perfect solution right now.
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100% happy with the rip to unencrypted Structure (as I've been doing for years) as who knows what the future will bring (eg one day... maybe... with optional
BD Menu Voldemort support forced subs will be known and I'll not have to re-rip all me discs).
On thing with the 3D Stucture Rips is the doubling of the disk size due to the SSIF folder. I read you said you don't use this and sure enough if I rename 00001.ssif to 00001.ssif2 the BD still plays in 3D. What gives with these?
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FYI - One "bug" is that BD 3D disks are treated as "Other Video" not "Ripped BD Video" under Tools--> Options--> File Location when ripping.
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- Sub Depth now works on BD (note: MakeMKV rips don't so I presume such rips "lose" depth info?)
Actually, for MakeMKV rips it should work, too! Although madVR there doesn't know which depth information track is meant for which subtitle track, so madVR simply uses the track which is farthest away from the viewer (but non-zero).
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Got it - The example I've been looking at is on Avatar from about 1:36 where a bunch of different depths are used and some of the subs would appear to have a depth that is "behind" a foreground actor (but looks good on the latest release with a BD version)
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Well, it works about half without the specific information. It can look out of place in some places when the exact depth isnt known, but best we can do.
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Thanks gents I'm all good - 100% BD Structures for me (outside my test files), just testing the changes and reporting back.
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Watched Life of Pi 3D tonight and 55mins in it turned into a slide show with the alternate glitch handling enabled.
Subtitles didn't work in this one either.
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Did you update madVR yesterday?
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Yep
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I'm using the latest version of MadVR which is 0.90.13. I've had some pretty good success as I managed to watch Minions 3D perfectly from start to finish. But then watching Inside Out it's hard to explain but things started looking "warped" after about 5 minutes; the other half who forces me to watch these animated movies noticed the same thing. I tried restarting the computer but the problem remained. Cyberlink PowerDVD 15 plays the same movie without the "warped" effect. My video card is an ATI AMD 6450 based card and I'm running Windows 10. This is the best I could find regarding this release: http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Inside-Out-3D-Blu-ray/134453/
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- Much more stable with the new presentation glitch handling
- Can also now run "better" algos (in my case Jinc+AR+LL etc) without dropping frames
So far, so good. Did you originally have a problem after ~1 hour of playback? Did you have a chance to check whether this problem still occurs?
Watched Life of Pi 3D tonight and 55mins in it turned into a slide show with the alternate glitch handling enabled.
Subtitles didn't work in this one either.
That's too bad. So no improvement for you?
What exactly do you mean with "Subtitles didn't work"? Did you get no subtitle image at all? Or you got subtitles but with audio/video sync issues? Or with missing 3D depth? I'm not sure if Hendrik's newest subtitle changes are already available as an MC21 test build?
I'm using the latest version of MadVR which is 0.90.13. I've had some pretty good success as I managed to watch Minions 3D perfectly from start to finish. But then watching Inside Out it's hard to explain but things started looking "warped" after about 5 minutes; the other half who forces me to watch these animated movies noticed the same thing. I tried restarting the computer but the problem remained. Cyberlink PowerDVD 15 plays the same movie without the "warped" effect. My video card is an ATI AMD 6450 based card and I'm running Windows 10. This is the best I could find regarding this release: http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Inside-Out-3D-Blu-ray/134453/
Can you describe what "warped" means exactly? Have you played the Blu-Ray directly? Or a MakeMKV remux?
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So far, so good. Did you originally have a problem after ~1 hour of playback? Did you have a chance to check whether this problem still occurs?
That's too bad. So no improvement for you?
What exactly do you mean with "Subtitles didn't work"? Did you get no subtitle image at all? Or you got subtitles but with audio/video sync issues? Or with missing 3D depth? I'm not sure if Hendrik's newest subtitle changes are already available as an MC21 test build?
Can you describe what "warped" means exactly? Have you played the Blu-Ray directly? Or a MakeMKV remux?
I could see subtitles very quickly flash up if switched between them but they never stayed, probably displaying on wrong depth.
Watching Jupiter Ascending 3D straight after and the forced Subs worked out of the box with no changes.
Smoother overall with much less dropped frames but the slide show at 55mins required stopping and restarting the movie. I didn't check madvr OSD but assume same issue as reported earlier.
I think the warping that Stewart referred to is the left/right eye in the wrong order. Stewart do you have a button on the remote to switch your display device left/right eye order? If not try switching left/right in madvr.
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Good News if the current Nvidia Drivers are buggy.
They update them often. Bad news is that's because they put all the energy into making the next game release work but it's still possible something will get sorted.
Also if a different card really proves to be bullet proof then it's not too much to imagine a GPU swap if needed.
I have been using GTX750 with great success in FSE mode. I agree with the notion that FSE is more robust in W10.
Watched Creature from the Black Lagoon in 3D yesterday and LOVED IT!
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One other thing that's great news with Madvr 3D!
I can enable custom resolution settings to get better 2D timings and 3D will still work.
Default Nvidia 1080p23 2d res results in display rate of 23.971 but with my custom 2d res I can get display rate to 23.976xx.
3D is still unfortunately using the Nvidia default timings for 3D though, but at least 3D still works with a custom 2D resolution now!
Before using TMT or PowerDVD 3D used to not work if you created a custom 2D 1080p24 resolution.
Now all we need is to be able to set a custom 3D resolution and bypass the hardcoded Nvidia timings for 3D resolutions. :) (you cant set custom 3D res with Nvidia control panel)
Here's my custom timings.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1612/25374115165_e73867bac8_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EEdYqe)23.976-custom (https://flic.kr/p/EEdYqe) by Hilton (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133784514@N07/), on Flickr
Here's the result in 2D. The repeated and dropped frames are from the start up.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1681/24747388253_6c94f36208_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DGQQkP)nvidia-custom-2D (https://flic.kr/p/DGQQkP) by Hilton (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133784514@N07/), on Flickr
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Here's a special debug build to try to get to the bottom of the slide show after ~ 1 hour of 3D playback:
http://madshi.net/madVRmc21debug3d.rar
During playback the debug log is now written to the two files "madVR - log.txt" and "madVR - old.txt", and then when the media player is closed, both are joined into one "madVR - log.txt". Both files can not grow larger than 256MB each, so the biggest the log file can grow now is 512MB.
If you can reproduce the slide show problem, please try to do so with this debug log. When the slide show starts, let it run for 20 seconds, then please close MC21 without any detours and upload the log file for me. Please ZIP the log, it compresses extremely well. Thanks!
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So far, so good. Did you originally have a problem after ~1 hour of playback? Did you have a chance to check whether this problem still occurs?
I did not originally have the problem (and I've also not watched a full movie since the new version). Also I forgot to say my Lip Sync issues sometimes being out is also addressed with the better glitch handling.
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I can enable custom resolution settings to get better 2D timings and 3D will still work.
There shouldn't be any need for custom timings if you have VideoClock enabled.
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There shouldn't be any need for custom timings if you have VideoClock enabled.
I think I agree. I was excited to punch in your custom timings till I saw the 1 frame drop every 47 minutes or so item. I think I get no expected frame drops.
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Can you describe what "warped" means exactly? Have you played the Blu-Ray directly? Or a MakeMKV remux?
I tried it again last night and the same problem occurred. The best way I can describe it is an excessive amount of cross-talk. PowerDVD 15 was used again with no problem.
I tried it with both the Blu-Ray directly and with a rip using DVDFab that created a folder structure and a miniso. The miniso was then mounted with DVDFab Virtual Drive.
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I think the warping that Stewart referred to is the left/right eye in the wrong order. Stewart do you have a button on the remote to switch your display device left/right eye order? If not try switching left/right in madvr.
Thanks, I will try this when I get the chance.
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I think I agree. I was excited to punch in your custom timings till I saw the 1 frame drop every 47 minutes or so item. I think I get no expected frame drops.
Yeah the frame drop calc takes a while to settle but I wouldn't expect a drop within the timescale of the movie with 0.00013% variance.
Call me a purist. :) I have had stability issues with reclocking stuff in the past but I guess I can give it another go, as you say it's the easy way to bend the video or audio.
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Videoclock is great. Just turn it on and relax
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Given a choice I would rather be a purist also.
I would rather it's perfect then it has a great way to repair the imperfections.
Either way,... motion and panning and stuff like that is really where the quality can show of any system no matter if it's in the encoding or decoding.
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Ok, I've been able to reproduce two important issues with my Windows 10 HTPC. One of these is the slide show after ~ 1 hour of playback. I was able to create a log for that myself, and it appears to be my fault, and I hope to have it fixed in the next build. However, the other issue is unlikely to be my fault:
I've played two full 3D movies now with the new glitch handling and I've found that in both movies while they start playing fine, at some point suddenly there appears to be a 1 frame (or more) delay between left and right eyes, which looks rather weird. Due to the way madVR handles stereo frames this is very unlikely to be my fault. I could imagine this to be a bug in either the NVidia GPU drivers, the Intel Media SDK, the LAV Video Decoder or the LAV Splitter.
@Hendrik, what are you thoughts on the matter? Do you see a chance there could be a bug in LAV Splitter or Decoder which could cause a 1 frame desync between left and right eye? FWIW, it occurred 3 times for me, and a seek reliably fixed the issue all 3 times for me. Due to a seek fixing the issue I'm doubtful that this would be NVidia's fault, but I can't be sure, it's still possible. Do you have any ideas how to track down which component (NVidia, Intel, LAV Splitter, LAV Decoder, madVR) might be responsible for this problem?
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P.S: Here's a release build with the ~1hour slide show bug fixed:
http://madshi.net/madVR9013b.rar
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@Hendrik, what are you thoughts on the matter? Do you see a chance there could be a bug in LAV Splitter or Decoder which could cause a 1 frame desync between left and right eye? FWIW, it occurred 3 times for me, and a seek reliably fixed the issue all 3 times for me. Due to a seek fixing the issue I'm doubtful that this would be NVidia's fault, but I can't be sure, it's still possible. Do you have any ideas how to track down which component (NVidia, Intel, LAV Splitter, LAV Decoder, madVR) might be responsible for this problem?
Did you play a MKV or Blu-ray? In an MKV the frames are already pre-assembled, so its unlikely to go wrong on the splitters end.
In any case, H264 frames have a so-called POC (Picture Order Count), which is equal for the base and extension views, so using those I don't see how the decoder could mess that up.
I have some asserts in LAV Video that check if both views come from the same frame, and so far they never triggered. But they are disabled in release builds ... maybe I should leave it running for a while.
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I've been playing straight 3D Blu-Rays (playlist etc), not MKVs. Would be great if you could create a build which somehow complains if something goes wrong. E.g. you could create a file on desktop, which contains some information that might be useful, in case the "POC" differs or something else weird happens? I suppose what I could do is test with an MKV instead of Blu-Ray to narrow down the list of suspects.
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Did your disc use seamless branching a lot?
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Good call! ;D
I've just checked, both movies I had this problem with *are* using seamless branching. And I've checked the exact locations where the problem started, and it *does* seem to be exactly the place where a new seamless branching m2ts starts (plus/minus a few seconds, I can't say for sure). The one movie where it occurred once happens to have 2 parts. The movie where it occurred twice has 3 parts. So it seems to me that the problem always occurs exactly at the seamless branching points, and it seems to happen every time.
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Which discs are those? Might have to get my hands on one.
That said, there was an issue in the mvc parsing in the latest nightly, and I hope to have that resolved now, but I can't say if its strictly related.
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I haven't been using last night's LAV nightly. The files are dated 2016-02-26, 02:55.
The discs are "My Bloody Valentine" and "Resident Evil: Afterlife" (both USA discs).
I suppose it should be easy enough for me to reproduce here. So if you need me to test with a special build or something, no problem.
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The Feb 26 build already had the bug, I'm afraid. In fact its the one that introduced it. I'll task my build system to make a new one right now.
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Ok, let me know when the build is up, I'll test right away. Just finished creating a MakeMKV remux for double checking, anyway.
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Its up now at https://files.1f0.de/lavf/nightly/, build 138.
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I'm sorry to say, but the problem is still there. The problem does *not* occur with the MakeMKV remux. It's 100% reproducable. Do you have any seamless branching 3Ds? It seems to me that it's likely that you could reproduce the problem with any of them. You can seek to about 30 seconds before a seamless branching point, then let it play over the branching point, then wait for a scene with some movement and press pause. You should notice that the image is not ok. In paused state it's actually easier to see than in motion. Seek back or forward a little and the problem disappears.
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P.S: I should add that my original description was somewhat wrong. It's not a full frame delay between left and right eye. It's more of a partial 3D corruption. I think the likely cause is that the 3D Intel decoder probably applies the MVC image warps to the wrong base view, or something like that.
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I found it easy to see with frame stepping on hard scene changes. I don't imagine its correct when one eye already changed scene and the other didn't.
Not sure whats wrong though. Maybe the decoder needs to be told there is a change? Odd. But then whats different in the MakeMKV stream?
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At one time I had a bug in eac3to which failed to demux the last MVC frame for each m2ts file. Could it be something like that? Maybe if one MVC frame is missing, the Intel decoder gets confused? I don't really know, just wild guessing. Must be something simple like that, though, because MakeMKV is unlikely to do any funny magic to the streams.
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I found the reason, I think, there is a EOS marker in the bitstream, which is presumably to blame for this. Now just to figure out how to remove it.
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LAV Build 141 is available now which hopefully resolves this issue. If i were to guess, the "warped" image reported by stewart_pk might be related to this, since such Pixar/Disney movies typically use a lot of seamless branching to localize logos/signs/etc.
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Wonderful - I can confirm that the bug seems to be fixed - many thanks! This is a good day, two important bugs found and fixed (this one and the 1 hour slide show bug)... ;D
Yes, I agree that it's likely that stewart's problem will also be fixed by build 141.
BTW, I'm quite happy that you managed to implement full support for seamless branching for 3D. I remember you originally only planned to support single SSIF files.
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You guys are geniuses! :) Thanks for the dedication and persistence! VERY much appreciated.
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Excellent work! Very happy with the latest solution.
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I'm also very happy with the new possibilities!
Thank you very much madshi and hendrik. ;D :) 8)
BR
Erich
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At first I made the huge mistake of forgetting to update the files in C:\Users\<USER>\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Plugins\lav after installing the latest LAV 141 build. But once I did that I can report the problem appears to be solved!
Well done and thank you very much and I think JRiver MC has taken another huge step forward in becoming perfect HTPC software.
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This thread is so impressive to read. Well done!
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We're getting close to considering this stable and including it in MC. Has anyone actually watched a whole movie with all the latest components (LAV 141+ and madVR 0.90.13b) to confirm the ~1h glitch is gone, and everything else works fine now? (other than the known bug with 3D not turning on for some people unless they poke the UI)
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Watched 3D movie last night apart from waggling the mouse initially to induce 3D all was perfect.
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It's all fixed for me apart from the poking the UI at the start!
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FWIW, I'd wait for 0.90.14, though. There's one known NNEDI3 related bug.
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FWIW, I'd wait for 0.90.14, though. There's one known NNEDI3 related bug.
Not going to publish anything this soon, don't worry. First need to make a LAV release sometime. :)
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I'm way behind reading the thread catchup-style, but I wanted to add:
Videoclock is great. Just turn it on and relax
+1
And...
This thread is so impressive to read. Well done!
I agree. I'm decidedly "meh" on 3D support, but this is all very nice work. Well done all of you.
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We're getting close to considering this stable and including it in MC. Has anyone actually watched a whole movie with all the latest components (LAV 141+ and madVR 0.90.13b) to confirm the ~1h glitch is gone, and everything else works fine now? (other than the known bug with 3D not turning on for some people unless they poke the UI)
Just grabbed the latest Lave Nightlies + already have madVR 0.90.13 (???b) installed. Put on Avatar in the background (could not bear to sit in front of it again) and let it play. Twice now (with a reboot inbetween just in case) I've seen a condition where playback ends up stalled with 30,000 dropped frames in the UI. It appeared in different places (I think - well the frozen screen was different). Pause/Play would restart but it was then all frame dropping like made. I'm running madVR in Debug Mode for a 3rd run and will post back. I've not seen this prior to today.
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Just grabbed the latest Lave Nightlies + already have madVR 0.90.13 (???b) installed.
If you don't know about b, then you probably don't have it.
See http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=102539.msg719232#msg719232
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Nope - I did not have it! Will retest as I just got a 8GB Txt file log with the issue on the non B version before I try compressing and uploading :)
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Nope - I did not have it! Will retest as I just got a 8GB Txt file log with the issue on the non B version before I try compressing and uploading :)
B also has a new logging mechanism, see http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=102539.msg719149#msg719149
No more 8GB logs, but a rolling log that allows small logs even when errors happen after an hour of playback. ;)
At least I hope that change is also in 13b, but I would assume so!
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Well - so far so good!
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All good with the latest (just a few dropped frames)
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Well, I finally got all the latest installed on my Mac Mini late 2014 model -- Intel Iris 5100, windows 10, latesst lav and madvr plugins...
3D Playback attempts to work, but it appears to be rapidly displaying two images slightly out of sync by a split second. Weird - it's like rather than display left/right at same time they display one after the other.
The TV reports 3D1080p, so I know JRiver is outputting a 3D signal. But the video is a mess with the image issue.
then JRiver crashes - usually after a min or two in...
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3D Playback attempts to work, but it appears to be rapidly displaying two images slightly out of sync by a split second. Weird - it's like rather than display left/right at same time they display one after the other.
Silly question maybe, but you did put on your 3D glasses, did you? Some TVs with active shutter glasses produce such an effect when you look at it without the glasses on (or the glasses being turned off). :)
Not sure anyone here is running it with an Intel GPU otherwise.
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Silly question maybe, but you did put on your 3D glasses, did you? Some TVs with active shutter glasses produce such an effect when you look at it without the glasses on (or the glasses being turned off). :)
Not sure anyone here is running it with an Intel GPU otherwise.
yup.
my tv - without the glasses on - produces a double-image effect.
the effect i'm seeing is as if each image is displayed at different times vs at the same time. will have to capture a short video of the effect.
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What happens if you put the glasses on?
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Before connecting to my HT system I have been testing using a 2D monitor. Can anyone advise if the image attached is to be expected?
The disc is Avatar 3D BluRay and all the files discussed I believe to be up to date. My concern is that Frame Packing is not working but perhaps it cannot work without a 3D monitor?
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Frame packing only works if the TV supports it. Otherwise madVR automatically switches to side-by-side.
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Frame packing only works if the TV supports it. Otherwise madVR automatically switches to side-by-side.
Great. Thanks for that info
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This is great news and excellent development. No drivers for my pcie ssd, so i need to rebuild my ATX desktop to get W10. What minimun graphics solution do i need to run this please? Im guessing no issues with m.2 ssd as an OS drive?
Cheers
Z
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What happens if you put the glasses on?
sorry - i am not being clear :)
obviously I tried the glasses - no good.
normally, if i put in a bluray 3d, without the glasses, I see the double image. this is not the same as what I am seeing without the glasses playing back an MVC MKV file made with makemkv on jriver.
now I've tested the same file on the raspberry PI2 and OpenElec (which plays back MVC MKV in hardware) and it plays back the 3D fine; without the glasses the pi2 produces the same effect as the bluray - double image which i would expect.
so clearly there's something up with my setup and/or jriver. i suspect it may be the intel iris 5100 since I seem to be the only one using it. i suppose next I should try some other 3D Content outside of jriver on this setup to see if it will playback properly.
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Well, I finally got all the latest installed on my Mac Mini late 2014 model -- Intel Iris 5100, windows 10, latesst lav and madvr plugins...
3D Playback attempts to work, but it appears to be rapidly displaying two images slightly out of sync by a split second. Weird - it's like rather than display left/right at same time they display one after the other.
The TV reports 3D1080p, so I know JRiver is outputting a 3D signal. But the video is a mess with the image issue.
then JRiver crashes - usually after a min or two in...
What exactly are you trying to play?
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What exactly are you trying to play?
I've tried a couple 3d MVC MKV files - Frozen and Star Trek Into Darkness. Same effect for both.
Planning to try again later this evening.
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I've tried a couple 3d MVC MKV files - Frozen and Star Trek Into Darkness. Same effect for both.
Planning to try again later this evening.
I don't think 3D MKV files are supported.
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The support added is for MVC encoded content, be it Blu-ray (Disk/MPLS and SSIF) as well as MKV. Both work fine for me.
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The support added is for MVC encoded content, be it Blu-ray (Disk/MPLS and SSIF) as well as MKV. Both work fine for me.
Damn. i'll have to chalk this up to using Windows 10 on a late 2014 model Mac Mini.
I think it's the Intel 5100 chipset and/or the drivers Apple provides.
Perhaps someone will one day try the Intel chipset other than me :)
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Damn. i'll have to chalk this up to using Windows 10 on a late 2014 model Mac Mini.
I think it's the Intel 5100 chipset and/or the drivers Apple provides.
Perhaps someone will one day try the Intel chipset other than me :)
pretty much identical issues for me too, using a intel d54250wyk nuc (i5 ~ i3 desktop). Win10, latest HD5000 drivers, latest LAV/MadVR.
It starts OK (in 3D) for about 5 seconds then stutters badly then crashes MC 21 after a minute or two.
OSD report shows the various queues don't fill at all. Tried lowest settings for everything. Plus FSE on/off/D3D11 sync/alternate glitch in all combos. To be fair D3D11 isnt that great for 2D either, CPU/GPU queues need to be larger for smooth playback, but then forward/skip don't work too well.
No hardware acceleration is the key I think Hendrik mentioned earlier.
As a reference, powerdvd 13 works fine. but its powerdvd... :(
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If the decoder queue doesn't fill, that means the CPU is too slow for decoding, and that's the key bottleneck. The other queues can't fill if the decoder queue is empty.
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guessed as much ;)
so what are the chances of hardware decode?
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That is probably up to hendrik. Based on a development thread I saw on Kodi forum I think there is an intel sdk 1.8 that allows hardware decoding of 3D MVC in windows 8.1 & 10 but it is limited to Intel cpu plus intel integrated gpu that support it (i.e doesn't work if discrete AMD or nVidia gpu installed). Based on the limited usecase it might not be worth the effort if time consuming to implement or has other limitations the reduce its appeal from a development perspective.
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However it may be attractive if an Intel NUC could be coaxed into showing 3D video through hardware decoding.
The more a NUC can do the more attractive they become for use as MC Client PCs.
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FYI - Quick test on my Intel Stick (2016 version) and while I did not expect it to play well, it did not kick off Frame Packed 3D at all. Kind of got a wide horizontal banding on the screen instead (it then hung with a Black Screen after a bit). Need to have a better play tomorrow.
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Intel gpu hardware decoding would be great. Otherwise i can't use it.
I did some tests with my Intel MeegoPad CPU Stick: (Intel HD 4200 GPU)
-It works, but stuttering like hell. :-[
Playing a full 3D Bluray ISO in PowerDVD 15 with MeegoPad works excellent.
Would be great if we could get gpu hardware support. ;D
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However it may be attractive if an Intel NUC could be coaxed into showing 3D video through hardware decoding.
The more a NUC can do the more attractive they become for use as MC Client PCs.
Highly dependant on which nuc you get as based some of the discussions 3D hardware decoding only works on some model nuc's e.g. does not work on any of the Celeron based ones or the N3050. Really depends on what Intel have enabled for a given model processor in their windows drivers.
Note: this is based on what I have read not personal experience as I don't have a NUC or use that build of Kodi (or anyother version for that matter).
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Highly dependant on which nuc you get as based some of the discussions 3D hardware decoding only works on some model nuc's e.g. does not work on any of the Celeron based ones or the N3050. Really depends on what Intel have enabled for a given model processor in their windows drivers.
Note: this is based on what I have read not personal experience as I don't have a NUC or use that build of Kodi (or anyother version for that matter).
Thanks for the info. But i guess this isn't really any different from some PCs are only capable of Red October Standard or madvr low settings, etc.
Making this work (entirely up to Hendrik and not a priority since PowerDvd does work) would enable a JRiver Id3d (windows based almost plug-n-play ::)) box.
Despite intel's best efforts to release wonky drivers/bios/etc, NUCs are almost perfect clients for MC. Ultra low power, built in IR, fanless cases available, plenty fast enough for normal HTPC duties.
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NUCs are almost perfect clients for MC.
+1
I have two first gen i3 NUCs, in the dining and living room. On a smaller screen (50" and less) I can live without Red October HQ, and after a few years I am still very happy about the NUCs as MC clients.
3D HW decoding support on Intel HD graphics would be nice (although only my PJ is 3D capable, and it is Radeon driven).
Again, thank you all for this development.
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pretty much identical issues for me too, using a intel d54250wyk nuc (i5 ~ i3 desktop). Win10, latest HD5000 drivers, latest LAV/MadVR.
It starts OK (in 3D) for about 5 seconds then stutters badly then crashes MC 21 after a minute or two.
OSD report shows the various queues don't fill at all. Tried lowest settings for everything. Plus FSE on/off/D3D11 sync/alternate glitch in all combos. To be fair D3D11 isnt that great for 2D either, CPU/GPU queues need to be larger for smooth playback, but then forward/skip don't work too well.
No hardware acceleration is the key I think Hendrik mentioned earlier.
As a reference, powerdvd 13 works fine. but its powerdvd... :(
similar i guess in that it doesn't work :)
for me, i get this weird playback effect (glasses on or off) - let me try to describe it this way:
Imagine you have 6 frames to be displayed in order,
F1...F6
when it plays back it does it this way:
F1 / F2
F2 / F3
F3 / F4
F4 / F5
F5 / F6
...and so on. it's quite amusing to watch and jarring at the same time as you can see frames repeated.
does JRiver kick into some other 3D mode depending on the file name? i do have my files named: "xxxxxxx.3D.sbs.mkv" because including ".sbs." in the name tells OpenElec on a Raspberry Pi2 to switch to hardware MVC decoding; kind of a hack to be sure but it works.
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Anyone else getting audio out of sync after an hour or so when playing 3D mkvs?
Using LAV and Madvr versions as of last Sunday (13th).
Have to restart the movie to get it back in sync.
Other than that - it's an amazing experience to have 3D blu- Ray's as accessible as all other films in my library.
Maybe it's my set up but it jriver + madvr looks better than my oppo 105 when playing 3D. Watched The Martian last night - a phenomenal audio visual treat.
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Anyone else getting audio out of sync after an hour or so when playing 3D mkvs?
Using LAV and Madvr versions as of last Sunday (13th).
Have to restart the movie to get it back in sync.
Other than that - it's an amazing experience to have 3D blu- Ray's as accessible as all other films in my library.
Maybe it's my set up but it jriver + madvr looks better than my oppo 105 when playing 3D. Watched The Martian last night - a phenomenal audio visual treat.
Do you have the madVR option "use alternative glitch handling mode" checked or unchecked? Try checking it.
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Where do I find that option? Using 0.90.15 and I can't see it anywhere.
Thanks again.
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Anyone else getting audio out of sync after an hour or so when playing 3D mkvs?
Using LAV and Madvr versions as of last Sunday (13th).
Have to restart the movie to get it back in sync.
Other than that - it's an amazing experience to have 3D blu- Ray's as accessible as all other films in my library.
Maybe it's my set up but it jriver + madvr looks better than my oppo 105 when playing 3D. Watched The Martian last night - a phenomenal audio visual treat.
After installing the correct madVR and LAV filters for 3D I noticed that audio went out of sync after a pause on 2D content. In addition JRiver would no longer go into exclusive screen mode.
After reverting to my original filter setup and re-booting, audio sync is fixed and exclusive mode now functions.
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After installing the correct madVR and LAV filters for 3D I noticed that audio went out of sync after a pause on 2D content. In addition JRiver would no longer go into exclusive screen mode.
After reverting to my original filter setup and re-booting, audio sync is fixed and exclusive mode now functions.
Same here for the pause then audio sync issue. Reverting to default.
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Would be good to know whether the issue comes from the new LAV or madVR build?
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New LAV comes by default with MC 21.0.58
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Same here for the pause then audio sync issue. Reverting to default.
I do not pretend to understand why but this solution appears to resolve the exclusive mode and sync problem:
1: Install all filters required for 3D
2: Uninstall LAV filters using Programs / Uninstall (leave the JRiver filters in place)
3: Install LAV and uncheck everything except the 3D filter
4: Re-boot
This works for me but your mileage may vary !
Please be advised that I have NOT tested 3D operation, Only 2D at this point.
I wonder if there is a conflict between the JRiver filters and those installed by the package
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You don't need to do anything to LAV anymore with MC 21.0.58, it ships a recent LAV on its own including the 3D plugin, so all you would need for 3D is to update madVR.
I have been running the latest LAV (ie. the one that comes with MC) and madVR 0.90.15 for a while and not noticed any problems in 2D playback.
PS:
If you uncheck everything but the 3D feature in the LAV installer, it will in fact do nothing at all, except "install" the readme file. The 3D feature is a plugin to LAV Video, so if thats not enabled, its plugin is of course also not installed.
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You don't need to do anything to LAV anymore with MC 21.0.58, it ships a recent LAV on its own including the 3D plugin, so all you would need for 3D is to update madVR.
I have been running the latest LAV (ie. the one that comes with MC) and madVR 0.90.15 for a while and not noticed any problems in 2D playback.
PS:
If you uncheck everything but the 3D feature in the LAV installer, it will in fact do nothing at all, except "install" the readme file. The 3D feature is a plugin to LAV Video, so if thats not enabled, its plugin is of course also not installed.
Thanks for the clarification. Now I understand why it still works :-[
Alas I'm still on MC20 :(
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Just installed MC21 but exclusive mode does not appear to work on 2D
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MC by default ships a madVR configuration with exclusive mode disabled, did you make sure its actually enabled?
Also, how did you determine its actually not turning on?
It works fine here.
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Sorry :-[ I wrongly assumed that the upgrade would take the parameters from my old MC20 install.
I confirm it works in exclusive mode. I don't see the MVC 3D file, does it need to be added manually?
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We try to preserve the madVR settings as best as we can, but a major update will often not manage that, unfortunately.
Not sure what you mean with MVC 3D file. The LAV that comes with 21.0.58 should include it (libmfxsw32.dll). madVR doesn't need any extra file.
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We try to preserve the madVR settings as best as we can, but a major update will often not manage that, unfortunately.
Not sure what you mean with MVC 3D file. The LAV that comes with 21.0.58 should include it (libmfxsw32.dll). madVR doesn't need any extra file.
21.0.58 up and running. Thanks for your help and clarification.
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Does anyone else suffer from exclusive mode only kicking in once the mouse is moved (when watching DVDs over the network)?
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I have not. But I find Exclusive Mode more trouble than it's worth as every time it starts and stops with mouse movement my projector detects this as some sort of change. And if you've ever used a JVC projector switching frame rates or settings is a like 10-15 wait. I looked at the CPU percentage and it seemed identical between Exclusive Mode On/Off so I'm not really sure what the point of it is anyway.
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Thanks Stewart - yes I'm using a jvc projector too.
Do you use d3d11 or the default d3d9?
Just wondering which is best to use.
Also - I'm going to assume there's no change in quality no matter what I use.
It may be a psycho visual effect, but I always felt image quality degraded slightly the minute dxva processing kicked in.
Any other jvc peculiarities you've noticed? (I keep the Clear Black set to off as I find it introduces a non-filmic digital feel)
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Thanks Stewart - yes I'm using a jvc projector too.
Do you use d3d11 or the default d3d9?
Just wondering which is best to use.
Also - I'm going to assume there's no change in quality no matter what I use.
It may be a psycho visual effect, but I always felt image quality degraded slightly the minute dxva processing kicked in.
Any other jvc peculiarities you've noticed? (I keep the Clear Black set to off as I find it introduces a non-filmic digital feel)
I think I've used both D3D11 and D3D9 and they both work and I can't tell a difference.
For 3D in JRiver I don't think DXVA is applicable because there is no hardware support, video is decoded by the CPU.
No not really. If I put on Clear Black on Low which I have it on now it has such a subtle effect, but I left it on as it's suppose to increase sharpness only in dark areas. I think I can see a slight improvement with it on Low. I have 4-K EShift Off for 1080P content as I find it softens the image in a bad way. For 2D I have Clear Motion Drive Off as I don't like it but for 3D I have it on Low as I think it provides a very nice smoothing effect with no noticeable artifacts.
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I wasn't sure where to put this but here seemed like as good a place as any.
I've created a "send to" script in MC21 to send my 3D ISO rips to 2 dvdfab virtual drives for makemkv to autorip and create my 3D MKVs.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1482/25705312070_7091a18d0e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FaurHG)makemkv (https://flic.kr/p/FaurHG) by Hilton (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133784514@N07/), on Flickr
My Custom Default Profile for makemkv
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<profile>
<!-- profile name - Default -->
<name lang="mogz">:5086</name>
<!-- Common MKV flags -->
<mkvSettings
ignoreForcedSubtitlesFlag="true"
useISO639Type2T="false"
setFirstAudioTrackAsDefault="true"
setFirstSubtitleTrackAsDefault="true"
setFirstForcedSubtitleTrackAsDefault="true"
insertFirstChapter00IfMissing="true"
/>
<!-- Settings overridable in preferences -->
<profileSettings
app_DefaultSelectionString="-sel:all,+sel:(favlang|nolang),+sel:havemulti,+sel:multi,+sel:stereo,+sel:havecore,+sel:lossless,+sel:forced,+sel:video,+sel:mvcvideo,=100:all,-10:favlang"
/>
<!-- Output formats currently supported by MakeMKV -->
<outputSettings name="copy" outputFormat="directCopy">
<description lang="eng">Copy track as is</description>
<description lang="ger">Track 1:1 kopieren</description>
</outputSettings>
<outputSettings name="lpcm" outputFormat="LPCM-raw">
<description lang="eng">Save as raw LPCM</description>
<description lang="ger">Als RAW LPCM speichern</description>
</outputSettings>
<outputSettings name="wavex" outputFormat="LPCM-wavex">
<description lang="eng">Save as LPCM in WAV container</description>
<description lang="ger">Als LPCM im WAV-Container speichern</description>
</outputSettings>
<outputSettings name="flac-best" outputFormat="FLAC">
<description lang="eng">Save as FLAC (best compression)</description>
<description lang="ger">Als FLAC speichern (höchste Komprimierungsstufe)</description>
<extraArgs>-compression_level 12</extraArgs>
</outputSettings>
<outputSettings name="flac-fast" outputFormat="FLAC">
<description lang="eng">Save as FLAC (fast compression)</description>
<extraArgs>-compression_level 5</extraArgs>
</outputSettings>
<!-- Default rule - copy as is -->
<trackSettings input="default">
<output outputSettingsName="copy"
defaultSelection="$app_DefaultSelectionString">
</output>
</trackSettings>
<!-- Save LPCM mono or stereo as raw LPCM -->
<trackSettings input="LPCM-stereo">
<output outputSettingsName="lpcm"
defaultSelection="$app_DefaultSelectionString">
</output>
</trackSettings>
<!-- Put multi-channel LPCM into WAVEX container-->
<trackSettings input="LPCM-multi">
<output outputSettingsName="wavex"
defaultSelection="$app_DefaultSelectionString">
</output>
</trackSettings>
</profile>
ISOmountE batch file for virtual drive E:
SET INPUT1=%1
SET ISOFileNamePath=%INPUT1%
SET ISOmount="C:\Program Files\DVDFab Virtual Drive\vdrive.exe"
SET makemkv="C:\Program Files (x86)\MakeMKV\makemkvcon.exe"
%ISOmount% /M:E %ISOFileNamePath%
timeout /t 5 /nobreak
%makemkv% --minlength=3600 -r --progress=-same mkv disc:0 all w:\
pause
ISOmountF batch file for virtual drive F:
SET INPUT1=%1
SET ISOFileNamePath=%INPUT1%
SET ISOmount="C:\Program Files\DVDFab Virtual Drive\vdrive.exe"
SET makemkv="C:\Program Files (x86)\MakeMKV\makemkvcon.exe"
%ISOmount% /M:F %ISOFileNamePath%
timeout /t 5 /nobreak
%makemkv% --minlength=3600 -r --progress=-same mkv disc:1 all w:\
pause
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As of 21.0.65, MC includes all required parts for 3D playback out of the box, which includes a new option to enable 3D playback, which means if you've previously used it, you'll need to enable that option to continue using it.
Full setup instructions have been posted here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=103931.0 .. that thread will be unlocked as build 65 becomes available. If you have any feedback about the instructions, just mention them here for the time being.
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Very Nice work Hendrik and madshi!!!!
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Quick video of my autorip script in action.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1540/25705726560_c065ca78ee_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FawyW5)Desktop 03.23.2016 - 23.53.51.11.DVR (https://flic.kr/p/FawyW5) by Hilton (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133784514@N07/), on Flickr
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If you have any feedback about the instructions, just mention them here for the time being.
3 very minor things. Please feel free to ignore:
1) You're using the following phrase (twice): "[support for natively playing] 3D Blu-rays and MKV files directly made from 3D Blu-rays with MakeMKV". While totally correct, on the first reading I thought for a moment it meant: "3D Blu-Rays and MKV files -> both directly made from 3D Blu-rays with MakeMKV". In order to avoid any misunderstandings, maybe it could be changed to "3D Blu-rays and 3D MKV*) files", and in the foot notes you could write "*) 3D MKV files must be MVC MKV files created directly from 3D Blu-rays with MakeMKV"?
2) requirements: "Native 3D output requires HDMI 1.4 and Windows 8.1 or newer". Not sure if most MC users understand what "frame packed" means. Technically more specific would be "Frame packed 3D output" instead of "Native 3D output". But maybe "Native" is better to understand for the average user?
3) requirements: "The system to recognize the TV as 3D (Stereoscopic 3D options in the systems Display Settings dialog)". True, but only for "frame packed" or "Native" output.
Maybe the following would make it clearer?
requirements:
* Media Center 21 Build 21.0.65 or newer
* Red October HQ and a system capable of running it
* A 3D TV and matching glasses
additional requirements for frame packed / native 3D output (these requirements don't apply for SBS):
* HDMI 1.4 and Windows 8.1 or newer
* The system to recognize the TV as 3D (Stereoscopic 3D options in the systems Display Settings dialog)
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@Hilton,
I don't quite understand what your script is doing. You said it sends the movie to "makeMKV" to create a 3D file.
Is this the purpose - because I just open the movie with the makeMKV program and create a 3D rip one movie at a time. I don't have anything against automating any process, but you went to a lot of trouble to make this script, so I assume it does more or I'm not understanding the full benefit of your script. Or maybe you just like to program - which is good too.
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@Hilton,
I don't quite understand what your script is doing. You said it sends the movie to "makeMKV" to create a 3D file.
Is this the purpose - because I just open the movie with the makeMKV program and create a 3D rip one movie at a time. I don't have anything against automating any process, but you went to a lot of trouble to make this script, so I assume it does more or I'm not understanding the full benefit of your script. Or maybe you just like to program - which is good too.
It's a lot quicker and I have a lot of 3D ISOs already in MC21 so I can quickly convert them and leave it running in the background. I know there is a batch converter for makemkv too but at least this way I can speed up the process and still have some control and visibility of what's going on. Theoretically I could also set it up to do 5 or more at a time. The script only took an hour and I learnt more about makemkv in the process. :)
PS. It was also quite tedious to manually select the titles and options required as the default makemkv profile is rubbish. :)
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Wonder if we should tell Hilton that the next MakeMKV version will likely preserve more 3D metadata than the current one, or wait until he is done converting all his ISOs?
I think waiting is probably best. :)
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3 very minor things. Please feel free to ignore:
Thanks for the feedback, I modified the requirements to make the distinction between native/frame-packed and all other modes more clear.
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Wonder if we should tell Hilton that the next MakeMKV version will likely preserve more 3D metadata than the current one, or wait until he is done converting all his ISOs?
I think waiting is probably best. :)
Thanks mate... :) I think.... :-\
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Speaking of, MakeMKV GUI can at least directly open ISO files, do you really need to mount them?
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As of 21.0.65, MC includes all required parts for 3D playback out of the box, which includes a new option to enable 3D playback, which means if you've previously used it, you'll need to enable that option to continue using it.
Full setup instructions have been posted here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=103931.0 .. that thread will be unlocked as build 65 becomes available. If you have any feedback about the instructions, just mention them here for the time being.
One other thing. I had to disable the Intel IGPU on my CPU to get 3D to work with Lav/MadVR on the Nvidia card. I never had to disable this before using other 3dplayers but the IGPU seems to interfere somehow and 3D never gets invoked because it's now using DX11 instead of native Nvidia 3D play.
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Speaking of, MakeMKV GUI can at least directly open ISO files, do you really need to mount them?
Did not know that. I hadn't dug very deep into makemkv before today.
PS.
Quite right the iso: option reads the ISO without mounting. :)
I've got 10 files converting at once just by right clicking in MC21 on the videos I want to convert with my script. :) Thanks Hendrik.
SET INPUT1=%1
SET makemkv="C:\Program Files (x86)\MakeMKV\makemkvcon.exe"
%makemkv% --minlength=2000 -r --progress=-same mkv iso:%INPUT1% all w:\
pause
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That was no joke earlier btw, if you have a long list of 3D ISOs that you want to convert to MKV, its probably a good idea to wait for the next version so the extra metadata isn't lost.
We already got confirmation that one piece of metadata is definitely going to be fixed in the next MakeMKV version (the eye-order of the views), and hoping for subtitle depth metadata to also make it, although the dev has been quiet of late.
The current version expires end of march, so its likely a new version will be released soon.
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That was no joke earlier btw, if you have a long list of 3D ISOs that you want to convert to MKV, its probably a good idea to wait for the next version so the extra metadata isn't lost.
We already got confirmation that one piece of metadata is definitely going to be fixed in the next MakeMKV version (the eye-order of the views), and hoping for subtitle depth metadata to also make it, although the dev has been quiet of late.
The current version expires end of march, so its likely a new version will be released soon.
Thanks I'll just keep the ISO's instead of deleting them and when the eye order and sub depth comes out I'll re-rip since it's pretty easy now. At least I know what to look out for now! :) Thanks again.
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I started a thread on AVSforum:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/2376530-3d-blu-ray-using-madvr-lav.html
If you, Hendrik or madshi, have any problem with it, or want to change anything, please let me know.
I also added a post in our thread there:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/1352282-jriver-media-center-owner-s-thread-73.html#post42624194
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No problem at all. Welcome, actually.
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Just to clarify the setup.
It appears that for the first time not all settings are available in MC for this new feature, unlike with RO HQ previously, which for many was set and forget. A user must make settings changes in madVR to make 3D playback work.
Hence the new feature:
21.0.65 (3/23/2016)
4. Changed: Added a link to the madVR settings from the Video settings page.
So rather than having to play a video then right click on it to access madVR settings, a user can now access them directly via this new function.
Correct?
That may need some clarification in the instructions. While this development has been particularly geeky (a good thing), a lot, if not most people will just want to use it, and not learn much to set it up.
Suggestions for wording changes:
Change "Options -> Video" to "MC Options -> Video", because now users are changing settings in two applications, so it would be good to be specific about which application the changes are being made in.
Change "properties -> 3D format: auto for HDMI frame-packed" to "properties -> 3D format: auto" because the actual setting is "auto" and there is no setting or mention of "HDMI frame-packed".
Maybe change "Only unmodified 3D Blu-rays or MKV files created from 3D Blu-rays with MakeMKV are supported at this time, other 3D file formats, <snip>" to "Only unmodified 3D Blu-rays or MKV files created from 3D Blu-rays with MakeMKV, both of which use the Frame Packed 3D output format, are supported at this time. Other 3D file formats, <snip>" if you wish to mention frame packing is the supported format.
Anyway, great work thanks guys. This will improve the WAF quite a bit . . . once I add a discrete graphics card and upgrade to Windows 10. ;D
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Maybe change "Only unmodified 3D Blu-rays or MKV files created from 3D Blu-rays with MakeMKV are supported at this time, other 3D file formats, <snip>" to "Only unmodified 3D Blu-rays or MKV files created from 3D Blu-rays with MakeMKV, both of which use the Frame Packed 3D output format, are supported at this time. Other 3D file formats, <snip>" if you wish to mention frame packing is the supported format.
The output is unrelated to how the files are encoded.
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The output is unrelated to how the files are encoded.
Okay, so my understanding of the requirements leave something to be desired as well. 8)
That just shows that either "HDMI Frame Packed" doesn't need to be mentioned, or that some further clarification is required.
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That just shows that either "HDMI Frame Packed" doesn't need to be mentioned, or that some further clarification is required.
Both the encoding and the output mode are important, they are just not related to each other.
You can decode a H.264 MVC encoded file (ie. a 3D Blu-ray) and output it as SBS, or you could decode a SBS file and output it as HDMI 1.4 3D (ie. "frame-packed") - note that the second is not something MC supports yet, though. :)
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I'm being pedantic, I know :)
* A 3D TV and matching glasses
* A 3D TV or Projector and matching glasses