INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => Media Center 12 (Development Ended) => Topic started by: Matt on March 27, 2008, 05:37:00 pm
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New system:
(http://www.pix01.com/gallery/870F46F7-4E87-44B0-A4F2-0FC2ED152FFA/Get_Cover_Art/90379387_orig0.jpg)
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Manual selections in this dialog will feedback into the voting system, making the automatic results better.
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All I can say is WOW!! lol.
Report a big problem and overnight a solution is come up with - I'm super impressed ;)
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Great!
I have some ideas that I would like to suggest, but I have not had time to prepare a presentation. I'll try to draw or otherwise create a mockup of a couple of dialog windows and post them ASAP.
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Can't wait to try it out!
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Here are my quick and dirty drawings. (I really didn't have time to create fancy mockups)
1. This window would show up first. It would be useful to provide a possibility to run an unattempted lookup. I.e.: you could select 500 files, start the process and let it run through exactly like it works now. The database would provide the best guess in case multiple images are available.
2. This would show up when "show alternatives" is selected and more than one image is available.
3. Also when nothing is found the database would allow to use a different search criteria.
4. The user would be able to type alternative names and start a new query.
EDIT
The attached images I posted in the beta board are not available here, but they would be obsolete anyway since the lookup tool is more or less finished.
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An alternative query would provide a new set of images. Naturally, if an image is selected it would be voted using the original artist and album tags, which are still visible in the window header. The server DB would then create a copy of the image file with new tags or just give the existing file alternative tags if that is possible.
EDIT: as above, the attachment is not available.
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I think it would be better to handle each album separately when user interaction is required. It would make possible to add the user defined query option quite easily.
If more than one album is selected for the lookup MC would show the same window again for each subsequent album that has more than one matching image in the DB.
The custom query option would provide a solution to this problem:
Perhaps my Elvis example wasn't very good. Classical music would provide better examples of possible tag variances.
For the same album the artist can be e.g.
- Beethoven
- Ludvig Van Beethoven
- Karajan
- Herbert Von Karajan
- Karajan & BPO
- Beethoven (Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra & Karajan)
- etc
and the album name can be
- Symphony No. 3
- Beethoven's 3rd symphony
- Eroica (3rd symphony)
- etc
It is nice that you have been able to add some fuzzy logic, but an automatic system can work only up to a certain extend. It can easily happen that the user misses a valid cover art image. A possibility to try different search strings is needed.
EDIT: fixed a couple of typos in the attached pictures.
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I like the look of what's there... looking forward to trying it.
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I looked at the screenshot again. Am I correct that the user would be able to simply press OK without making any selections? Then the server would select the best images?
If that's how it is intended to work could you consider adding a separate very simple tool for quering individual image files with a user defined search string?
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I looked at the sreenshot again. Am I correct that the user would be able to simply press OK without making any selections? Then the server would sekect the best images?
The recommended image will be selected by default. "OK" may be renamed something like "Accept Images and Save Tags".
That means no intervention is required.
However, you can fine-tune any album by picking it and clicking any of the choices on the right.
There will likely be a "no changes" selection as well.
Adding a way to "Try A Different Search For This Album" might make sense.
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Love the simplicity of the original screen shot.
Some option to search for a different string for the album makes sense too although I hope the original simplicity stays as well.
Maybe just something as simple as two text boxes above the image options to the right:
[Artist]
[Album]
By default they show whatever the album selected has for its values, but they can be manually edited and the search repeated with new values?
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.. perhaps also indicate the number of images found?
eg "Nirvana - Incesticide (5 images found)"
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I think Alex's suggestions are ideal.
I'm not sure from the screenshot, but will there be any way to preview the image found even if there's only one image found?
I like to make sure what I'm getting is right... this could count as a vote and would improve future hits
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It would also be nice if we could specify a desired minimum quality, somewhere, too. So if 12 images are found for a particular album, don't bother showing me the files at are only 300x300. Although quality goes beyond size. I have cover art in my library that wasn't the biggest I found, but was the best looking. If you've got a 300x300 image and a 1200x1200 image, but both are 50k in size, you just know the 1200x1200 image looks like crap.
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After playing with this for a bit... while I haven't found any offensive images yet, I have found some blatantly WRONG images. Would it be considered abuse to "Report Offensive Image" on images that are just wrong? For instance, "3 Doors Down - The Better Life" returns images "The Clash - Combat Rock" and "Whitney Houston & George Michael - If I Told You That".
Personally, I do consider a Whitney Houston & George Michael album to be quite offensive, so maybe I should...
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I have found some blatantly WRONG images. Would it be considered abuse to "Report Offensive Image" on images that are just wrong?
Not at this time. It's meant for terribly wrong stuff.
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If I pick my existing image, and it doesn't match any of the ones that MC retrieved for me, does MC automatically upload my image and cast a vote for it?
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I've uploaded a few hundred coverart files in the last hour...
In the summary dialogue box which comes up, what does the "Failures (rejected by database)" part mean? I've gotten that for a substantial number of albums, but there's no way to tell which ones...
Does it mean they are already on YADB or is it rejecting them for some other reason?
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If I pick my existing image, and it doesn't match any of the ones that MC retrieved for me, does MC automatically upload my image and cast a vote for it?
Yes.
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This is looking like a nice addition.
Is it possible to have the images perhaps auto-expand upon mouse over, so that image comparisons can be made ? The thumbnails shown are not quite large enough to determine the differences between two, say 500x500 images, w/out using a trial-and-error approach.
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The thumbnails shown are not quite large enough to determine the differences between two, say 500x500 images, w/out using a trial-and-error approach.
Could this result in votes being cast that were unintended -- i.e. when somebody makes a selection just to see what it looks like, does this count as a vote?
On this same subject, does the system count another vote every time a user selects an image, or does it track the source of the vote and only count one vote for this user, but allow them to "change" their vote? In other words, if a user were to select an inferior choice several times while trying to decide on a final decision, but only selects the "good" art once, does this mean that the inferior art will get more overall votes? I'm trying to get a grasp on how the system works overall.
Thanks,
Larry
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I think MrC's approach wuld avoid the problem you're describing Larry. IMO, the auto-expand tooltip style approach suggested would be very beneficial.
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After playing with this for a bit... while I haven't found any offensive images yet, I have found some blatantly WRONG images. Would it be considered abuse to "Report Offensive Image" on images that are just wrong?
As Jim said, please don't do that. I'm working on a system where these images will be removed automatically over time, similar to what I am using for CD lookups.
j
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Which version of MC are you using?
It should not be failing, ever. If you could narrow it down to a single artist album and post here, that would be great.
Thanks
j
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Overall I like the new cover art system. Some comments reflect what others said. I had to maximize the window just so I could get a bigger look at the cover to decide which one to choose.
The cover I was looking for had 4 selections and the 2nd and 4th were the best looking ones. However, I needed to maximize the window to get a really good look. Problem was that once I did that I couldn't really see the two images next to each other to make an easy compare. I had to keep going back and forth. It would be nice if there was someway to easily compare. Maybe drag an image to another location in the selection?
I already had a cover and selected that to see what else I could get. It chose the most popular image but I couldn't tell if that was the one I already had or not. I did not expect the image dimensions/size to change on the left column UNTIL I selected and it applied the image. That way I can tell what I already have and compare it against what is now out there. I would expect the list of albums to show what you currently have as cover art, if any.
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I already had a cover and selected that to see what else I could get. It chose the most popular image but I couldn't tell if that was the one I already had or not. I did not expect the image dimensions/size to change on the left column UNTIL I selected and it applied the image. That way I can tell what I already have and compare it against what is now out there. I would expect the list of albums to show what you currently have as cover art, if any.
What I've been doing is, once it's done doing its lookup, I choose "Choose Existing" from the list, so it resets everything to what I've already got. Then I just go through one by one and pick what I want. I think it would be nice if it defaulted to the last option you chose, though.
Overall I like the new cover art system. Some comments reflect what others said. I had to maximize the window just so I could get a bigger look at the cover to decide which one to choose.
The cover I was looking for had 4 selections and the 2nd and 4th were the best looking ones. However, I needed to maximize the window to get a really good look. Problem was that once I did that I couldn't really see the two images next to each other to make an easy compare. I had to keep going back and forth. It would be nice if there was someway to easily compare. Maybe drag an image to another location in the selection?
I was thinking the same thing. If you maximize the window, you get a better look, but then the right hand column is smaller than the left, which doesn't make much sense, really. The left hand column primarily only has a little bit of textual information. The right hand column should be the one that grows more than it does. I think if they just put a resizable splitter between the columns it would help a lot.
As for having the images next to each other... That's honestly not as important to me, personally. I usually just look at the largest image (dimensions and filesize), and then want to get a better look at that image to see what it looks like. But I can understand the desire to be able to do this. One thing I thought would be nice is if the list was sorted by size, that way the two images you want to compare have a better chance of being next to each other. Chances are good you aren't trying to decide between a 300x300 and a 1200x1200 image, with other sizes in between, for example.
As Jim said, please don't do that. I'm working on a system where these images will be removed automatically over time, similar to what I am using for CD lookups.
Ok, no problem. As it turns out, I did have a chance to report and offensive image, if you can call a nude Pamela Anderson offensive. ;) I actually wish I had remembered which album it was for, because it would have been neat to see if it showed up again. Are offensive images put into purgatory immediately until they can be reviewed, or will they continue to show up until you've removed them?
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Which version of MC are you using?
It should not be failing, ever. If you could narrow it down to a single artist album and post here, that would be great.
Thanks
j
Hi John, this was for 10.0.466
I'll have a closer look tomorrow to nut it down to a few specific examples, off to bed now.
Off the top of my head, the biggest failure rate occurred when I uploaded soundtrack covers...
If I had to hazard a guess, the problem might be:
1. Many of these have a colon ";" in the album name (eg Spawn: The Album)
2. Many of these are (Multiple Artist) albums
3. Many of the album names are quite long (eg Back to The Future: Music from the Motion Picture Soundtrack)
In my popular music section, I only got 3 failures out of a couple of hundred, compared to about 30 in soundtracks
Haven't touched classical yet :P
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MC10 - I don't know. The failures are probably happening on the client side... -- j
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I like this version.
Though the albums I'd like better art for return the images I have uploaded, other more mainstream items have a good selection.
For my use (5-10 CD here and there), it works well and provides the info I need to make a choice.
Maybe a full size preview button would be nice.
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I've uploaded a few hundred coverart files in the last hour...
In the summary dialogue box which comes up, what does the "Failures (rejected by database)" part mean? I've gotten that for a number of albums, but there's no way to tell which ones...
Does it mean they are already on YADB or is it rejecting them for some other reason?
Oh woops that last post of mine was a big fat typo on my part! I meant 12.0.466, not MC10, sorry for the confusion :D
In 12.0.467 I am getting much better results!
Using coverart - submit to internet:
In my popular music albums, of about 500 albums, 3 got "Failures (rejected by database)"... this is pretty good
In my soundtracks, of about 200, I got 9 failures... these all had unassigned artists, so I guess that's what might be causing the failures
About to test the new coverart lookup on albums I'm missing art for, wish me luck ;)
(And thanks for the great new feature)
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In my popular music albums, of about 500 albums, 3 got "Failures (rejected by database)"... this is pretty good
In my soundtracks, of about 200, I got 9 failures... these all had unassigned artists, so I guess that's what might be causing the failures
If the artist field is blank, that would cause a failure -- j
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Just for kicks, I asked MC to "get from internet" for every album in my library, and my PC slowly ground to a halt...
Media Center 12.0.467 Registered -- C:\Program Files\Media Center 12\
Microsoft Windows Vista 6.0 Service Pack 1 (Build 6001)
Intel Core 2 2665 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 2094 MB, Free - 125 MB
MC was commanding 1.5 megs of RAM with art preview window open. Closing it returned MC's RAM usage back to 43 Mb.
During the lookup process, MC was also taking some serious amount of CPU time, regularly peaking at 100%
that said, the tool worked very well indeed.
Any chance it could remember its window size so that we don't need to resize it each time it's opened?
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I can confirm that Media Center needs the entire Rams, at the tagging of several hundred files or at download Cover from the Internet.
No other media player behaves like that.
Just for kicks, I asked MC to "get from internet" for every album in my library, and my PC slowly ground to a halt...
MC was commanding 1.5 megs of RAM with art preview window open. Closing it returned MC's RAM usage back to 43 Mb.
During the lookup process, MC was also taking some serious amount of CPU time, regularly peaking at 100%
that said, the tool worked very well indeed.
Any chance it could remember its window size so that we don't need to resize it each time it's opened?
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Just for kicks, I asked MC to "get from internet" for every album in my library, and my PC slowly ground to a halt...
MC was commanding 1.5 megs of RAM with art preview window open. Closing it returned MC's RAM usage back to 43 Mb.
During the lookup process, MC was also taking some serious amount of CPU time, regularly peaking at 100%
We're trying to get Intel interested in investing.
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We're trying to get Intel interested in investing.
?
Are you suggesting the problem lies with the CPU?
It's running on an eVGA nforce mainboard, using Geil RAM, perhaps they should all take on joint responsibility?
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I can confirm that Media Center needs the entire Rams, at the tagging of several hundred files or at download Cover from the Internet.
No other media player behaves like that.
No other Media Player can display an online cover art selection window for 2845 albums and several alternative images for many of the albums. (I tested that and it indeed was a heavy task.)
I'd recommend querying only 100 or so at a time.
Though, could it be possible to add an unattended mode which would just download the "recommended" images one by one without downloading thumbnails and creating a preview window?
The user could run it overnight and check the results in the morning. After that the possible low quality images could be replaced with the preview tool.
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Ok, I understand, but why requires MC12 1.5 GB Ram just because I have change a tag in the entire library like comment etc.
Older Build from MC12 has this Issue not on my PC.
Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 with 2GB Ram Windows Vista Ultimate.
My Library is big yes it has >50.000 Files, but older Build has no Problems with this.
No other Media Player can display an online cover art selection window for 2845 albums and several alternative images for many of the albums. (I tested that and it indeed was a heavy task.)
I'd recommend querying only 100 or so at a time.
Though, could it be possible to add an unattended mode which would just download the "recommended" images one by one without downloading thumbnails and creating a preview window?
The user could run it overnight and check the results in the morning. After that the possible low quality images could be replaced with the preview tool.
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Ok, I understand, but why requires MC12 1.5 GB Ram just because I have change a tag in the entire library like comment etc.
Older Build from MC12 has this Issue not on my PC.
Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 with 2GB Ram Windows Vista Ultimate.
My Library is big yes it has >50.000 Files, but older Build has no Problems with this.
So you are speaking about tagging. This thread is about the new cover art lookup tool.
As a test, I just tagged 49000 audio files with a new tag value (Though only in the library. I didn't want to change the files' last modified dates). I didn't notice anything unusual. The memory usage was a bit over 100 MB and CPU was maxed out for a few seconds. Also "Undo" worked fine.
I think you should start a new thread and provide more details.
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What I've been doing is, once it's done doing its lookup, I choose "Choose Existing" from the list, so it resets everything to what I've already got. Then I just go through one by one and pick what I want. I think it would be nice if it defaulted to the last option you chose, though.
As for having the images next to each other... That's honestly not as important to me, personally. I usually just look at the largest image (dimensions and filesize), and then want to get a better look at that image to see what it looks like. But I can understand the desire to be able to do this. One thing I thought would be nice is if the list was sorted by size, that way the two images you want to compare have a better chance of being next to each other. Chances are good you aren't trying to decide between a 300x300 and a 1200x1200 image, with other sizes in between, for example.
The "Choose Existing" does work okay.
Sorting the images by dimensions would be ideal. That was my problem. I was trying to compare two 500x500 images and since they weren't next to each other, it was tough. But then again, there could be a terrible 500x500 image in between and I would still have the same problem. Maybe sorting plus have the image hover tooltip like in the regular Images area so you don't have to maximize the window and can see the image large.
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Tried cover art in 468. I like the new image tooltip. Good idea! ;)
I'm not sure why small images though are resized to the maximum width of the right column. One album I looked at had a 115x115 size but maximum width made it look horrible of course.
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Sorting the images by dimensions would be ideal.
They are sorted by quality, according to the server.
This should get better with use as more users vote.
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WOW! GREAT!
You Made My Day!
This is the best new feature since panes, split view
and grouping... Works absolutely perfect :-)
Did I already mentioned that I really like it?
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This is great!
Is there a way to sort albums after the smallest coverart? I store my coverart as folder.jpg in folder.
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Maybe it should submit your coverart, when none is found on internet, automatically?
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OK, there's something that could be improved...
Right now, a lookup for e.g. "Rolling Stones - Aftermath" brings
up different results than "The Rolling Stones - Aftermath".
Also "Beck, Jeff - Wired" vs. "Jeff Beck - Wired". Some logic for excluding
articles, spaces, underscores, commas etc from search would be nice...
I would also like to keep the simplicity of the current solution. Please
do not turn this into some "smart list driven feature monster" :-)
For more complex lookups, like the previously mentioned for classic music,
of course some solution is needed. Even compilations and multiple artist
albums bring up very different results depending on the way the album name
is tagged, e.g. including the name of the compiler, DJ or series.
How about a small slider / pull down menue / right click menue where you can
select the "sharpness" of the lookup in e.g. 3 steps and the possibility to "Rescan"?
If it's set more to "unsharp", after a rescan not only exact matches
are shown, but also more or less "similar" matches, maybe only for the
currently selected album. Hard to implement with all consequences,
but easy to understand :-)
Maybe it should submit your coverart, when none is found on internet, automatically?
Maybe not automatically, but if there was the possibility to submit from within
the dialog, that would be handy... Right click on image or list entry?
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Maybe it should submit your coverart, when none is found on internet, automatically?
Please see Options - General - Online Metadata - Submit cover art changes to online database. Just make sure it's checked.
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Please see Options - General - Online Metadata - Submit cover art changes to online database. Just make sure it's checked.
I have that option checked. Maybe that one only works when actually changing your cover art?
If I do a "get from internet" and save changes it doesn't upload. When I do it maunally, "submit to internet", and then "get from internet". Then I can see my coverart as an option from internet.
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I have that option checked. Maybe that one only works when actually changing your cover art?
If I do a "get from internet" and save changes it doesn't upload. When I do it maunally, "submit to internet", and then "get from internet". Then I can see my coverart as an option from internet.
I agree that this part of the system could be a little smoother - I want to ensure my art gets uploaded for all of the ones I have that I have already got a great image for.
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OK, there's something that could be improved...
Right now, a lookup for e.g. "Rolling Stones - Aftermath" brings
up different results than "The Rolling Stones - Aftermath".
Also "Beck, Jeff - Wired" vs. "Jeff Beck - Wired". Some logic for excluding
articles, spaces, underscores, commas etc from search would be nice...
Actually, there is already logic in place for handling these cases, and the system is improving (gradually) constantly.
They'll work one day...
j
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I think the addition of some "IF > Then" statements could help.
If 'download' cover is smaller than 'my library' cover > Then show for approval
If 'download' cover is smaller than 'my library' cover AND Quality is better by xx% > Then Replace with Download cover
If 'My Library' cover is best > THEN do not show for approval
etc
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I think that's way overcomplicating something that currently works so well simply because it isn't that complicated.
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I think that's way overcomplicating something that currently works so well simply because it isn't that complicated.
Correct, but mass-tagging you are forced to browse through a gazillion images to find ones you wish to override. I am seeking to filter out the unnecessary ones to make it easier to deal with the questionable ones.
In other words I am not satisfied with the three current choices, and would like more. I do not need customizable rules, just a few more options.
for example I should be able to only review changes and skip review of any covers which are remaining as they already are in my library.
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New system looks very nice! :) Thank you very much!
(There is nothing constructive in this post so sorry about that)
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I absolutely agree, this is a fantastic enhancement and I feel almost embarrassed asking for more (only almost though :P). Like others have already mentioned, I too like to have a uniform size of cover art (500 x 500), so how about an extra option of Choose this size: ### x ### where a user can enter their preferred size?
Ian
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For people not automatically uploading cover art,
it would be nice to be able to right click on your image and select submit to internet.
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For people not automatically uploading cover art,
it would be nice to be able to right click on your image and select submit to internet.
Isn't that already possible? I have the automation disabled and have been submitting some covers today.
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I mean from within the cover art retrieval tool
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Thanks for implementing the new system -- this is a really nice improvement.
I had a couple questions about how it works:
1) When looking up art for a CD, does the system use the album name, or does it utilize the CD code number? I have some albums that are "re-mixes" from box sets or "definitive edition remasters." I name the albums appropriately (i.e. I'll name an album "Duke [Box Remix]" instead of just "Duke") in order to distinguish the album from the original version. This means that the album might have a slightly different name compared to others who ripped this album. I realize that this will effect how MC finds art for the ripped songs, but when looking at the actual CD, does MC recognize this CD by the identifying code on the CD, or does it see it as a whole new CD due to the slightly different name?
2) It will sometimes take me 2 or 3 tries to get the art "right" for an album. For example, I sometimes miss the fact that the first try that I downloaded had a white edge that needs to be cropped off. I'll therefore edit the image and re-apply it, which results in more than one submission from me that might look very similar. Is there any way to deal with this situation so that the end result is that only the "final version" of my art submission is available online?
3) What if somebody is trying to decide on the best art for an album and goes back and forth between two selections. Does each re-selection count as a new vote? Also, if somebody goes back and forth between two images, then downloads a new one, does this result in the two "inferior" images getting more overall votes than the new one, which only received one vote?
Thanks again for the excellent work on this feature,
Larry
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Awesome feature. Just dumped ~1000 of my best images into the system.
Mark
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2) It will sometimes take me 2 or 3 tries to get the art "right" for an album. For example, I sometimes miss the fact that the first try that I downloaded had a white edge that needs to be cropped off. I'll therefore edit the image and re-apply it, which results in more than one submission from me that might look very similar. Is there any way to deal with this situation so that the end result is that only the "final version" of my art submission is available online?
3) What if somebody is trying to decide on the best art for an album and goes back and forth between two selections. Does each re-selection count as a new vote? Also, if somebody goes back and forth between two images, then downloads a new one, does this result in the two "inferior" images getting more overall votes than the new one, which only received one vote?
2. The only way I believe they implemented is to turn off "Submit cover art changes to online database". At least that's the way I have had to do it so I can make sure I only submit my final one.
3. I believe the answer is that any submission counts as a vote.
In regards to 2, I have had problems in the past too when I got cover art and discovered it had a border around it that I needed to trim. I love the new image tooltip for the cover art, but would it be possible to eliminate the border around it so the user does not believe that will be part of that selected cover art?
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3. I believe the answer is that any submission counts as a vote.
Not sure if this is how it works or not, but one way it could work is that every installation of MC has a unique (and anonymous) number on YADB and every time an image is picked for an album, they get, essentially, one vote that just gets moved from one image to another. If I change my mind later then my vote is taken away from the image I had used previously and given to the image I just picked. So the only one that counts is the final one. I would think that would work better than just a raw number of votes, otherwise you could have somebody really abuse the system by uploading a bunch of bad images and then just keep submitting votes for it until it reaches the top. It will also help better art reach the top faster because if people decide to go look and see if any better art has arrived and change their mind, their vote for the new image won't be canceled out by their vote for the old image. Just a thought.
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Yes, there is a "problem" with the voting system in that someone could get a cover art voted up to the top by just submitting it constantly. I know, because I tried it when the voting first came out. ;) At least my image was valid though.
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1) When looking up art for a CD, does the system use the album name, or does it utilize the CD code number? (...)
I name the albums appropriately (i.e. I'll name an album "Duke [Box Remix]" instead of just "Duke")
There *is* no CD code number - this is a common myth. We use a variety of techniques to identify CDs.
The details are confidential, but it does what you want, and will improve over time.
2) It will sometimes take me 2 or 3 tries to get the art "right" for an album.
3) What if somebody is trying to decide on the best art for an album and goes back and forth between two selections.
Don't worry about it (taking 2 or 3 tries, or going back and forth). The voting system will take care of it eventually...
j
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When using "Get Coverart" with the "Best Results" option it does not select "Your Library" (ie My Library) even when I have larger better resolution images. This results in replacing my images with smaller poorer resolution images
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Now playing on JRiver Media Center: Cat Stevens - Sitting (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/cat+stevens/track/sitting)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)
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There *is* no CD code number - this is a common myth. We use a variety of techniques to identify CDs.
The last time I read anything on the subject, which was years ago when CD lookups were only used to show the track information when playing the CD, they were creating a hash using the total length of the CD, the length of the first track, and the number of tracks on the CD. Not sure if this is still being used or not in most places, but that was one way it was being determined. Like Gateley says, there is no CD code number on the disc itself. There may be on some, but if you can't guarantee it's there on all of them, then it's not a useable tool to determine which CD it is.
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Whoever is reporting offensive URLs, PLEASE STOP IT. This tool is ONLY for reporting pornographic images, not for reporting incorrect art or random photos.
j
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Whoever is reporting offensive URLs, PLEASE STOP IT. This tool is ONLY for reporting pornographic images, not for reporting incorrect art or random photos.
j
Sorry.
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;D
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For the record, that was Matt posting with my account. Blame him.
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Not sure if this is how it works or not, but one way it could work is that every installation of MC has a unique (and anonymous) number on YADB and every time an image is picked for an album, they get, essentially, one vote that just gets moved from one image to another. If I change my mind later then my vote is taken away from the image I had used previously and given to the image I just picked. So the only one that counts is the final one. I would think that would work better than just a raw number of votes, otherwise you could have somebody really abuse the system by uploading a bunch of bad images and then just keep submitting votes for it until it reaches the top. It will also help better art reach the top faster because if people decide to go look and see if any better art has arrived and change their mind, their vote for the new image won't be canceled out by their vote for the old image. Just a thought.
I was thinking the same thing. This would allow people to "change" their vote rather than just add a new vote. I've seen albums with 500 x 500 art that actually looks worse than a 300 x 300 version of the same art. In these situations, I'll often end up going back and forth a few times before deciding on which one looks best. Later, which I either fine or create a better version of the art, I'll use it, but this will result in a situation where the "good" art has fewer votes than EITHER of the "bad" options.
I understand, however, that this may add difficult complications to the overall system.
Larry
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The new cover art selection window is neat. I would like to see a similar window when I select Cover Art > Paste from Clipboard. This would enable me to compare cover art that I just copied from a website with my existing cover art to determine which is better. I have a lot of albums that I can find better cover art at Sloth Radio (http://www.slothradio.com/covers/) or using Google Images. However, I would like a way to compare this new cover art to my existing cover art before pasting from clipboard.
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After doing several "Get Cover Art" I noticed that all the files including the .mp3 files get the last modified date set to today.
I store my coverart in directory as Album - Artist. Why is the last modified date updated on the .mp3 files ? It's going to make for a huge
backup modified file backup tonight.
Thanks !
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Now playing on JRiver Media Center: Cat Stevens - Sweet Scarlet (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/cat+stevens/track/sweet+scarlet)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)
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As everyone else has already said:
Fantastic New System! ;D
Strange Phenomenon: Whenever I lookup Razorlight's self titled album, it crashes MC. Ok, I don't really blame it, but I have got worse stuff in my library and it seems fine with everything else (admittedly I haven't tested it with Snow Patrol yet)
One thing that would be nice, if it could try looking up the artist as well as the Album Artist (perhaps only if looking up the Album Artist returns few results).
I often set my album artist to the band an artist is associated with. For example, I like to keep Mark Knopfler and Dire Straits together, so set the Album Artist of Knopfler's solo albums to Dire Straits.
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Strange Phenomenon: Whenever I lookup Razorlight's self titled album, it crashes MC....
Did you select this file: Razorlight - Razorlight, 2963 x 2776, 913 KB ? It is rather big, but it works for me when I save it in the file folder only.
Are you embedding cover art? What is the audio file format?
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One thing that would be nice, if it could try looking up the artist as well as the Album Artist (perhaps only if looking up the Album Artist returns few results).
I often set my album artist to the band an artist is associated with. For example, I like to keep Mark Knopfler and Dire Straits together, so set the Album Artist of Knopfler's solo albums to Dire Straits.
I'm confused - what do you mean?
j
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Are you embedding cover art? What is the audio file format?
Yes, mp3
Further testing has revealed that it is that image that's causing the problem, however it's when I've got that image myself that causes it to crash. I've now submitted another one, 507x515, and it's fine with that one.
i.e.
If I have the big one embedded, it's fine until I select Get from Internet, when it crashes (usually when it's still stating Lookup in Progress).
If I have another one, it's fine, I can select Get from Internet, and even select the big one and it happily downloads it and embeds it without problem.
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I'm confused - what do you mean?
j
I like Mark Knopfler to be sorted next to Dire Straits, but I like to see the Artist as Mark Knopfler:
(http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/4329/direyy3.jpg)
So I set the Album Artist to Dire Straits, and the Artist to Mark Knopfler.
But if I try to get cover art for Sailing to Philadelphia, it just looks for the Album Artist, and looking for Dire Straits - Sailing to Philadelphia, it of course finds nothing. So it would be nice if it said, 'Ah, nothing for Dire Straits, but the Artist is Mark Knopfler, so I'll try searching for Mark Knopfler - Sailing to Philadelphia', upon which it would find cover art.
Ok, really not a big thing, it was just something that struck me as I went through my library.
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It would be helpful if the name "Get From Inernet" was now changed to something more useful...
I currently right click on the playing track and "Get From Internet" is in my context tree, but it doesn't mean anything - get *what* from Internet??
Could the option be renamed something more useful like
Get cover art from server
Get art from JRiver
Choose Cover Art
etc
?
Cheers,
Mark
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I'm confused - what do you mean?
The best solution to differing tags would be a separate manual tool as I suggested earlier.
A new menu item could start it. It would look for one image file at a time and make possible to type a user defined search string. Here are the drawnings that I posted in the beta board a couple of weeks ago:
(http://www.pix01.com/gallery/4AD73041-94E6-4810-80BE-EDB7F3274485/coverartlookup/442342160_orig0.jpg) (http://www.pix01.com/gallery/4AD73041-94E6-4810-80BE-EDB7F3274485/coverartlookup/442342160_orig1.jpg)
(http://www.pix01.com/gallery/4AD73041-94E6-4810-80BE-EDB7F3274485/coverartlookup/442342160_orig2.jpg) (http://www.pix01.com/gallery/4AD73041-94E6-4810-80BE-EDB7F3274485/coverartlookup/442342160_orig3.jpg)
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It would be helpful if the name "Get From Inernet" was now changed to something more useful...
I currently right click on the playing track and "Get From Internet" is in my context tree, but it doesn't mean anything - get *what* from Internet??
Well, the option really isn't at the top level except for when it's in your recently used section of the context menu. Ordinarily it's Cover Art->Get From Internet, which makes much more sense. But I do agree with you that when it's in the top level of the menu, it can be a little obscure. "Get Cover Art From Internet..." would work better.
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So yesterday I was playing some music and noticed that I had this little 200x200 image for one of my albums. I did a Get From Internet and there were no other options to pick from. So I hopped on Google and found a nice big image, and changed my files to use that image. As a test, I then removed cover art from those files and did a Get From Internet again. This time it still didn't show me any options.
So now I'm curious... does MC actually upload cover art just from me changing it? I have the options set to allow this, but it didn't see to do anything in this case. Does the upload happen immediately? And how long after the upload does it take for the image to show up?
After that, I pasted the image in manually again, right clicked and told MC to upload the image to YADB. I got a message saying: "Uploaded cover art for 1 album. (took 0:00) | Added: 1 album | Skipped file upload (only vote counted): 1 album" From that I assumed that my earlier edit had actually uploaded the image to YADB and that's why only my vote was counted.
But just now, I tried a Get From Internet from my work PC for the same album, and it still doesn't show me any cover art available on YADB. I did another Submit To Internet from here (as it turns out the image I have here is even better than the one I found on Google last night), and I got the same message that I quoted above. However, after removing cover art and doing another Get From Internet, this time MC returned me the same image I just tried to upload 2 minutes ago.
The album was Metallica - S&M in case this is actually a bug rather than me not "getting it". I guess right now I'm just curious why the image I submitted last night never showed up, and the image I just submitted told me it wasn't uploaded, but not it does show up.
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This may not be related to what this thread is talking about it but as far as cover art goes i got two questions;
1. all my cover art is 300x300, is there some easy way that i could get to be 500x500?
2. for all my cover art i just have the front cover, is there a way to obtain back covers as well?
thanks
TC :)
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This may not be related to what this thread is talking about it but as far as cover art goes i got two questions;
1. all my cover art is 300x300, is there some easy way that i could get to be 500x500?
Just run the new cover art tool with your existing albums, look for images that are 500x500, and save the results. You don't need to remove your existing cover art first as it will overwrite your existing ones.
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I applaud this improved feature. Just ran through my library and updated some art to higher quality... I can't believe the time I wasted doing this manually before (although I used the old find cover art to some extent too).
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After playing around with the system, I'd recommend a button to click when the database shows no hits to upload the album art from my library. Currently, if the query finds nothing, I have to close, then right click and select "Upload album art." You may get more uploads if you offer a button in the results window. someone may already have recommended this.
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Scrolling through the covers MC gets from the internet n order to approve them sometimes causes the Cover Art Finder to freeze up. (could be mouse-wheel related?)
A filter to show only those covers which MC has found alternates would make the selection/approval of MC's over choices much easier.
There is really no need to see all the covers for which MC is using my existing Cover Art, filtering these after MC has finished it's search & evaluation would make selection much easier.
A 'Wrong Cover" button is needed as MC has shown me several covers that were totally incorrect (some were only the photo of the CD and not the cover at all)
Unable to select which art for MC to select (MC seems stuck at the default "Choose Best Result") as it begins searching immediately and then will not allow a change.
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12.0.473 (4/9/2008)
2. Changed: The "Get Cover Art" dialog works in batches of albums when doing large lookups
This fixed the memory usage problem, but it does not allow to do a completely unattempted initial cover art lookup.
I'd like to suggest the following. Display first a dialog window like this (before starting the internet connection):
[radio button] Automatic lookup
Media Center will try to find cover art for all selected files automatically. No user interaction is needed.
This mode is good for initial lookups when several hundred or more cover art images are looked up.
[radio button] Interactive lookup
Media Center will show thumbnail images and let you choose if more than one cover art image is available. This mode will allow to preserve and automatically submit existing cover art if it is found better than the available on-line images. This is a batch mode. Cover art is handled in batches of 20 images. After each saved batch Media Center will automatically query for the next batch if more than 20 albums are selected for the lookup.
[radio button] Custom lookup for single cover art images
This is a manual mode. You can type any Artist and Album names and the tool will use these in the search instead of the library tags. A found and saved cover art file will still be saved using your library information, not the custom search string. If one of the displayed images is selected your library information for this image is added to the on-line database. This option is for trying different tags without the need to actually retag your audio files.
Artist: [ type the artist name here ]
Album: [ type the album name here ]
[continue] [cancel]
The automatic option would work like the old system. It would download the cover art images one by one without displaying any additional windows. It would use the "best image" mode.
The interactive lookup would be what we have now.
The custom lookup would display the results of the first query in a window like this:
(http://www.pix01.com/gallery/4AD73041-94E6-4810-80BE-EDB7F3274485/coverartlookup/442342160_orig0.jpg)
If a query didn't find anything useful, the user would always be able to try different tags until one image is selected or the lookup is cancelled.
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MC is not saving cover art in the folders if the "Your Library" cover is selected, but will only write the cover art to the folder when getting a new/different cover from the web.
This means that I cannot use this tool to update my cover art location from the central folder where it has been to the Artist/Album folders as I had hoped.
Might this be changed?
Is there some other way to get the covers moved?
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MC is not saving cover art in the folders if the "Your Library" cover is selected, but will only write the cover art to the folder when getting a new/different cover from the web.
This means that I cannot use this tool to update my cover art location from the central folder where it has been to the Artist/Album folders as I had hoped.
Might this be changed?
Is there some other way to get the covers moved?
While I think that would make an excellent addition to this tool, there may be a workaround to your problem. Couldn't you just import all of your cover art files and then do a rename files from properties to get them all where you want them? Then just select everything, remove cover art, then Quick Find in File/Cover Art Directory? Obviously you may have to tweak this procedure based on how your cover art images are named or whatever properties you may have given them, but it I don't see why it shouldn't work.
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Couldn't you just import all of your cover art files and then do a rename files from properties to get them all where you want them?
Actually, no.
There are other [tag] fields in my file/folder naming structure which are pertinent to the music files but not used on covers. This would cause the covers to show up in the wrong locations, and there are too many to manually add the appropriate tags for this to work. That's why I had hoped for this tool to move them for me.
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Ah, that sucks. Well, hopefully they'll add your request to the cover art downloader. I don't really see any reason not to, and I think a confirmation letting users know that the art is going to be moved and asking permission to do so would cover any case where it was unintended.
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Not at this time. It's meant for terribly wrong stuff.
Speaking of terribly wrong stuff... I was at a clients house the other day and he was downloading cover art and right while I was sitting there an image came up for unknown artist, unknown album that was way pornographic with emphasis on graphic. Needless to say I was extremely embarrassed. Thankfully he was a good sport about it. Having an easy way to report this kind of stuff is a very good thing.
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Just for kicks I deleted cover art for 3 albums, 2 of 3 came back with no results.
1. Kirk Whalum, For You - Failed
2. Thelma Houston and Pressure Cooker - I've Got the Music In Me - Failed
3. Shania Twain, Come On Over - Suceeded
If this what I should expect?
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Did you submit them first?
It should be automatic if you're allowing it under MC's options/General, but we've found a case or two when it isn't.
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Yes, submit cover art changes... is checked. Always has been AFAIK. I even did a manual submission and they still don't come up, but perhaps they have to be processed before they can go into the DB??
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1. Kirk Whalum, For You - Failed
2. Thelma Houston and Pressure Cooker - I've Got the Music In Me - Failed
3. Shania Twain, Come On Over - Suceeded
Kirk Whalum, For You, is there.... could you try again?
For Thelma Houston and Pressure Cooker, try the spelling "Thelma Houston & Pressure Cooker". It should have a result then.
There's not enough info under the spellings of Thelma Houston and Pressure Cooker for YADB to decide they are the same yet...
j
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Just for kicks I deleted cover art for 3 albums, 2 of 3 came back with no results.
You don't need to remove cover art for trying the tool.
The correct procedure would be to select the"Your Library" thumbnail and press "Save Cover Art" if nothing or anything better was found. Then MC would submit your existing image file (or files if more than one "Your Library" image is selected).
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... try the spelling "Thelma Houston & Pressure Cooker". It should have a result then.
There's not enough info under the spellings of Thelma Houston and Pressure Cooker for YADB to decide they are the same yet...
The options I suggested would make trying alternative names easy and the database would also get the alternative spelling automatically if the user decides to download an image.
If the user changes the library tags before the lookup the alternative spelling will not be added.
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Doing a search for "Rob Lane & Joseph Vitarelli - John Adams" comes back with a ton of results, only one of which is correct (the image I just uploaded). This album hasn't even been released yet, so I didn't really expect to find anything. I only checked it to see if the image I used had uploaded.
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Doing a search for "Rob Lane & Joseph Vitarelli - John Adams" comes back with a ton of results, only one of which is correct (the image I just uploaded). This album hasn't even been released yet, so I didn't really expect to find anything. I only checked it to see if the image I used had uploaded.
I'm confused. There is no 'Rob Lane', no 'Rob Lane & Joseph Vitarelli', and the only Vitarelli is 'Joseph Vitarelli' by himself.
But he doesn't have have an album called John Adams, and in fact the album he does have is without cover art.
Could you double check?
j
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I'm confused. There is no 'Rob Lane', no 'Rob Lane & Joseph Vitarelli', and the only Vitarelli is 'Joseph Vitarelli' by himself.
But he doesn't have have an album called John Adams, and in fact the album he does have is without cover art.
Could you double check?
j
Just tried it again and got the same result. It takes a really long time before it returns any results, presumably because of the sheer number of images being returned. I started counting but gave up when I hit 100 and the scrollbar wasn't even 1/4 of the way down.
(http://www.dooftoo.com/Interact/Screenshots/adams.jpg)
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I've had a few lookups today return tons of wrong entries for one album too... should we list such occurrences here ?
Mark
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Thanks Doof - that helps a lot, explains a lot. There's a bug somewhere, I'll figure it out tomorrow.
Mark - post a couple if you don't mind.
j
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Should be fixed now -- j
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Should be fixed now -- j
Confirmed. :)
Was it just some weird entry in the database or an actual bug?
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It was a bug introduced when I shut off the fuzzy matching yesterday... -- j
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Can the Get Cover Art dialog have a "Remove Cover Art" button that actually deletes the current Your Library image and the image link from the current album/tracks?
Reason: The system is a way to find new cover images, but ALSO to clean up existing bad images. In my library, prior automated lookups added wrong images to various tracks. The new system is helpfully showing them to me (hadn't noticed before, big library). But sometimes a correct image isn't found, so the desired action is to remove the bad cover art track(s) album that is being viewed in the Get Cover Art dialog. But how? It just needs the same Remove Cover Art button/function that is available elsewhere.
(Otherwise, I need to write down track details, exit the Get Cover Art system, then go find and edit the various tracks.)
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What about all those images with the text "No Image Available - Share your own customer image" will they be voted out?!
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What about all those images with the text "No Image Available - Share your own customer image" will they be voted out?!
Yes they will. It's not an instantaneous process. It'll take about a while before bad art starts disappearing.
But, the bad images should already be appearing at the bottom of the list (having few votes).
j
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You know, it would be nice if "Get From Internet" actually got images from the internet, rather than from your servers. It is sad when I have to use another application or even Google to get some art.
Jason
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You know, it would be nice if "Get From Internet" actually got images from the internet, rather than from your servers. It is sad when I have to use another application or even Google to get some art.
Jason
Right Click->Send To (external)->Add/edit programs
Create an entry:
Name: Image Search
Program: C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\firefox.exe
Parameters: images.google.com//images?q="\"[artist]\" \"[album]\""&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi images.search.yahoo.com//search//images;_ylt=A0geu.zhLMRGCHcBV7FXNyoA?ei=UTF-8&p="\"[artist]\" \"[album]\""
ok
Now you can send a track to this routine and it will pop up a firefox window with searches aimed at google images and yahoo images. Once you've used it once it will be in your right click list...
Now leave the new wonderful art system alone! :p :D
Mark
PS I would like to see "Get From Internet" changed to something more useful as I requested earlier in the thread.
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... it would be nice if "Get From Internet" actually got images from the internet, rather than from your servers. It is sad when I have to use another application or even Google to get some art.
Are you using one of the latest builds? 12.0.476 is at the top of the MC12 board.
"Get from Internet" is a legacy term. It probably won't change, but we have plans to add to the feature.
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Right Click->Send To (external)->Add/edit programs
Create an entry:
Name: Image Search
Program: C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\firefox.exe
Parameters: images.google.com//images?q="\"[artist]\" \"[album]\""&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi images.search.yahoo.com//search//images;_ylt=A0geu.zhLMRGCHcBV7FXNyoA?ei=UTF-8&p="\"[artist]\" \"[album]\""
Nice one Mark, great idea.
Ross
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Anyway we could see the full size image when we hover over the left hand side Image box in the navigation tree (eg the same way we see the full size image in the cover art system)? This would enable us to quickly decide whether or not to look up new cover art in the cover art system, saving us time and the server unnecessary hits...
Thanks,
Mark