INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => JRiver Media Center 24 for Windows => Topic started by: Hendrik on February 05, 2018, 12:09:15 pm
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JRiver Media Center for Windows now has the ability to display and navigate Blu-ray Menus (as of 23.0.98)
Menu support is still under active development and considered Beta, as such not all discs are guaranteed to work.
If you encounter a disc with a menu which doesn't work (at all, or partially), and its not listed as a known issue, please do report this here, with the name of the disc in question.
Menus are not enabled by default at this time. You can find the option to enable them in Media Centers settings:
Options -> Video -> Enable Blu-ray Menus
At the current time, this option is only available in the Beta channel. If you are in the Beta update channel and are not seeing this option with MC 23.0.98 or newer, make sure to run an update check on the beta channel to unlock it.
Java Support
Media Center supports playback of BD-J (Java) discs. As of 24.0.8, Java is automatically installed as a playback dependency.
Known Issues in the current version:
- UHD BDs are untested, UHD BD-J menus are not supported.
- Image cropping/zooming/aspect ratio adjustments may conflict with the Menu
Limitations:
- 3D is not supported, you need to use Blu-ray Title Playback for 3D decoding to kick in
- "Sub path" audio is not supported, which can result in some still-image menus to be missing its background music
- Secondary Video/Audio is not supported yet (Picture in Picture, Overlay Commentary tracks on some discs)
- Bookmarks and other Playback State (ie. audio tracks) is not saved/restored yet
- Navigating Menus with the mouse can be a bit flimsy at times (and doesn't work with BD-J at all) - they are really not designed for mouse usage, so consider it a bonus if it works! :)
This post will be amended when additional information is available for Java menus and other future developments.
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Room for more information
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Unfortunately a large number of discs are going to be Java based, and its not quite obvious that this is the reason when it plain out fails right now. So next up I'll work first on reporting errors to the user directly, and then Java support.
The log currently already contains the info if a disc uses Java, and you can also determine this if your disc has files in ..\BDMV\BDJO
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Thanks Hendrik, great work! ..and nice differentiator for MC. Can't wait to test and report back (but it will be a few days till I'm back at home 😭 )
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Awesome! I tested a concert Blu-ray and it works great. I'll try a UHD disc this evening.
When using the down/up arrow in Display View, the heading still says "DVD Menu."
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Unfortunately a large number of discs are going to be Java based, and its not quite obvious that this is the reason when it plain out fails right now. So next up I'll work first on reporting errors to the user directly, and then Java support.
The log currently already contains the info if a disc uses Java, and you can also determine this if your disc has files in ..\BDMV\BDJO
I guess this is what you mean by this failure, could you make it fallback to no menus instead?
0032500: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::Open: Opening W:\10 Cloverfield Lane\BDMV\index.bdmv
0032531: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: libbluray/bdj/bdj.c:126: Error opening registry key SOFTWARE\JavaSoft\Java Runtime Environment\
0032531: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: libbluray/bdj/bdj.c:682: BD-J check: Failed to load JVM library
0032563: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: libbluray/disc/disc.c:424: error opening file CERTIFICATE\id.bdmv
0032563: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: libbluray/disc/disc.c:424: error opening file CERTIFICATE\BACKUP\id.bdmv
0032563: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: libbluray/bdj/bdj.c:126: Error opening registry key SOFTWARE\JavaSoft\Java Runtime Environment\
0032563: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: libbluray/bdj/bdj.c:682: BD-J check: Failed to load JVM library
0032563: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::Open: Disc Opened, no_menu: 0, first_play: 1, top_menu: 1, num_titles: 81 (3 hdmv, 78 bdj, 78 unsupported)
0032563: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::Open: BDJ detected: 1, JVM available: 0, BDJ handled: 0
0032563: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::Open: AACS detected: 0, AACS handled: 0, BD+ detected: 0, BD+ handled: 0
0032563: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::Open: Starting playback..
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event Angle (1)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event Title (65535)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event IG Stream (1)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event Audio Stream (255)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event PG TextST (1)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event PG TextST Stream (4095)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event Secondary Video (0)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event Secondary Video Size (0)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event Secondary Video Stream (255)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event Secondary Audio (0)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event Secondary Audio Stream (255)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event Title (65535)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event UO Mask Changed (3)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: libbluray/bdj/bdj.c:126: Error opening registry key SOFTWARE\JavaSoft\Java Runtime Environment\
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: libbluray/bdj/bdj.c:835: Wasn't able to load JVM
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: libbluray/bluray.c:3166: Can't play BD-J title 2
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event Title (2)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event Error (2)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::Open: Finish (78 ms)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDOverlayFlush: Flushing empty HDMV Overlay on plane 0, at -0
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDOverlayFlush: Flushing empty HDMV Overlay on plane 1, at -0
0032578: 5904: Playback: DShowVideoGraph::ConnectSourceAndSplitterBlurayMenu: Failed to open file. (hr=0x80004005)
0032578: 5904: Playback: DShowVideoGraph::SetMissingDecryptionErrorWhenFileTypeIsBluray: Start
0032578: 5904: Playback: DShowVideoGraph::SetMissingDecryptionErrorWhenFileTypeIsBluray: Finish (0 ms)
0032578: 5904: Playback: DShowVideoGraph::ConnectSourceAndSplitterBlurayMenu: Finish (3734 ms)
0032578: 5904: Playback: DShowVideoGraph::Render: Error: source / splitter did not expose output pins.
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actually better would probably be a menu option like "open menu" as opposed to play means open menu
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In the future, if Java is not available (or some other error occurs), it should probably display some message and then do title playback. It doesn't do that yet. A separate play button is tricky, we have lots of play buttons everywhere.
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When using the down/up arrow in Display View, the heading still says "DVD Menu."
Speaking about that option, there is a bit of a somewhat related question there - Blu-ray player remotes typically have two menu keys, one for the "Disc menu", and one for the "Title Popup Menu". The first typically takes you to the main menu screen, while the second makes a menu popup somewhere (often at the bottom), so you can change languages etc on the fly.
Now Media Center, and most MCE remotes, only really know a single "Menu" button. Right now it opens the "Disc Menu", but I'm thinking maybe it might be better to open the Popup menu? On most discs I have tested, the Popup menu actually has a button to take you to the Disc Menu, if you're so inclined. The right-click context menu in MC has options for both, if you want to see the difference.
I have yet to check how other PC Blu-ray players handle this, so if anyone has something at hand right away, that might be good info too.
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In the future, if Java is not available (or some other error occurs), it should probably display some message and then do title playback. It doesn't do that yet. A separate play button is tricky, we have lots of play buttons everywhere.
I am pretty sure that I will invariably use the existing (no menu) play button but will want to use the menu for specific things and/or specific discs (e.g. perhaps I want to watch a particular extra or skip to a particular track). I suppose one way to look at this is whether I can access the menus from within a disk after I start playback (without menus) or do I have to enter via menus to get access menus at all?
I guess that means the following would cover it for me;
- allow me to set an overall default action on play
- provide an menu item that can start playback or open menu
- provide the same via MCWS
- allow me to access the menu once playback has started irrespective of whether I entered via play or via menu
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Playback can't just switch to menus on the fly, it would have to be stopped and entirely re-started in menu mode. I don't expect to be adding such a button.
I'm not sure that we can have a special playback action in all the possible places for a special file type, we'll see about that later, but it seems unlikely, because Playback is controlled through quite a lot of different layers and interfaces. Not sure yet how to let people choose between the two more easily, for the time being its just going to be a global option.
DVDs already have the same problem today, we technically have the ability to do title playback, but its just not really exposed except if DVD menu playback is unavailable (ie. remote from a media server).
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One could use a Menu and No Menu Zone for Blu-rays depending on their desire when selecting a Blu-rays but this isn't the easiest method - especially if one has several physical zones.
Please consider adding a Blu-ray Menu tag with the options Default, No, or Yes. Default uses whatever is set in Options -> Video -> Enable Blu-ray Menus. No turns the menus off all the time. Yes turns the menus on all time. This provides some more flexibility for the user regarding which movies should use the Blu-ray menu.
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I'd see the settings are similar to other choices (such as resume playback)
- Options : Bluray Menus Off/On/Ask Each Time
- Menu Button During Playback = Stop Playback and Bring up the Main Menu
I'm not sure which of the following I would use but I leaning towards either
- Ask Each Time, or
- Default Current Behaviour (Title Playback), but... if I got the wrong title (say directors commentary) or wanted to select a TV Eps, Alt Ending, View Etras etc, then I'd
- Press Menu Button = Stop Playback --> Menu Appears
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If you are playing in title mode and press the Menu key, it'll bring up the basic title selection dialog we already have today. I don't see it suddenly re-starting Playback in menu mode, since that would be extremely disruptive and not something you can just easily cancel again by pressing back. Pressing that key accidentally would be extremely frustrating - even more so if we change its behavior.
If you want to switch from title playback to the menu, you would have to stop playback yourself and go back to whatever way we decide to let you select this before playback actually starts. There should be an intentional effort to switch modes, and not something you can hit accidentally.
Maybe we can put an option into the basic title selection dialog to switch to the full menu, will have to check how it works, and if its at a level where this would be possible. But there is still no way back, which is a bit bad still.
First the focus is on getting it working with as many discs as possible, anyway. We'll see about anything else once its in a more presentable state.
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OK I see. I think using a tag as mojave suggests will certainly cover a lot of cases. Simply making it possible to choose via MCWS whether it plays in one mode or another would be good enough for me if you don't want to clutter up your own UI.
I notice that particles created from a BD still work with the menu option turned on but there is no way (that I could find) to see which stream you're playing as stream info looks like it has been replaced by the menu options in the playback popup menu. Is this shown somewhere? If not, is it possible to add it? The use case being making it easier to create particles from a BD for the content you actually want in your library.
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The menus take full control of whats playing. There isn't really a good way to export that. Not any priority anyway. Lets focus on playback first. We're not taking away any abilities you've had until now, though.
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I tried a few UHD Blu-rays, but menus didn't work.
I noticed that with menus on, most (but not all) Blu-rays defaulted to the stereo soundtrack. Some movies went straight to the menu and some played trailers before getting to the menu. The most disturbing thing was seeing an FBI warning. Never seen that before. ;D
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Re: UHD BD, the only two discs I have both use Java menus, so those won't work anyway right now. Might have to acquire more to find one with HDMV menus.
The menus entirely control the stream selection. Its basically a small program that runs. It currently just gets a preferred language. There are some fields to specify the audio capability of the hardware, maybe that influences the pre-selection of multi-channel tracks? Guess I should dig for a disc where this happens and see if that changes anything.
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This is good. I have done a little bit of testing with ripped full directory structure Blu-rays, and they work. They work even though some of the pesky introductory streams have been removed from the rip.
I did see some variation between different discs. I will have to test some more, then perhaps document what I saw. However I will note that while a couple of discs enable me to drop back to the Blu-ray menu via an option in the OSD, at least one did not have that option, so I had to stop playback in order to get back to the menu. When viewing Extras, which for me is the primary reason for wanting the Blu-ray menu, I often want to check out one of the included videos, and often only watch a short part of it before wanting to drop back to the extras menu and try something else.
For this reason I would like the Menu button on my MCE remote to always drop back to the Blur-ray menu, preferably at the menu level I just left.
I'll also note that the MCE remote Menu button did nothing at any time. Even with a Blu-ray that skipped the menu and played the title immediately, the menu button didn't cause any title selection dialogue to display.
I will also try to find time to compare functionality to PowerDVD. Particularly what it does with the menu button.
Thanks for this Hendrik.
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I'm not sure if the MCE menu button is always automatically hooked up. Maybe you need to go into the remote control dialog and "learn" the button and map it to the "DVD Menu" functionality. I remember having done that in the past. I'm not sure why the menu button would be special though, that part is really not my area. :)
For testing, both the possible menu buttons are available in the right-click menu. I would think that the Disc Menu button should do what you want it to do (although ultimately thats up to how the disc has the menu organized)
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I'm pretty sure my MCE menu button still works fine with DVDs, opening the DVD menu as expected. But I haven't done that for a while, so perhaps I should check. Who watches DVDs these days?! ;D
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My current MCE remote doesn't even have a menu button. My old Harmony had one, but that one broke a year ago - and being a Harmony I had to manually map the button anyway. Oh well.
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I am using a Harmony remote which has a "Menu" but that performs exactly the same function as the "DVD Menu" button on my Inteset INT412 Standard MCE remote. I didn't need to learn the button or do any other setup in MC to make it work.
The Inteset INT412 Standard MCE remote has four predefined function buttons for "Recorded TV", "Live TV", "Guide", and "DVD Menu", the latter showing a small optical disc image. I thought all MCE Remotes had those buttons.
Yep, even the old HP MCE Remote (https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Media_Center_Remote) that JRiver used to sell has a "DVD Menu" button alongside the other three.
I'll test the Blu-ray menu functionality with Inteset as well... when I get time.
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There is still a lot of work to do here anyway, we just wanted to share what was working already. :)
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The next build (101) will have the first version of BD-J support. I added some general information about Java into the first post. BD-J menus don't work quite as nicely as the HDMV menus yet, but they are usable - albeit sometimes a bit slow (thats Java for you). The BD-J discs I developed with so far also don't seem to like the mouse at all, only keyboard/remote navigation worked.
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Did a quick run through about 200 discs on V100: Overall it works and works very well!. Comments as follows:
- I'm guessing that less than 30% had a functioning HDMV menu (vs BD-J or No Menu at all either Main or Pop-Up) (note: all of my UHD are BD-J)
- HDMV menu is very very responsive, works well with KB and Mouse (could not test the RC as the Fam were watching)
- The default audio stream is not always the "Best", several older titles selected the 5.1 DD not the Uncompressed stream..but..
- Swapping Audio Streams using the BD Menu drops the Audio. It appears that the filter graph is not rebuilt for the selected Audio Stream
- You lose ability in MC OSD to select Title, Stream, Subs, Audio, Chapters :(
- The MC OSD only has an option to bring up the BD Menu but not the Pop Up Menu that in many cases controls the selection of audio and sub streams (but the right click option exists).
- I also saw the odd weirdness where it would play the intro clips but then fail... but would work the 2nd time.... Or the menu would stop responding, or the item selection would not work. Not sure about this one as i can not put my finger on what it is.
I highly recommend that the option in MC is - On / Off / Ask (not just On/Off). I would use "Ask".
Overall - It works and works well! Looking forward to seeing how BD-J goes!
Well Done....
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There is fixes in the next build for stream switching not working and various other playback failures. I'm slowly testing all the discs I have here, but since they are actual optical discs and not whole-disc rips, it takes a bit of extra effort.
Since its still under very active development, there won't be accurate changelogs for a while, but anything I find and reproduce on any disc I have, I fix.
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I checked the stream selection logic on some discs where Lossless is not preferred - and according to the Blu-ray spec if the Menu does not specify a preferred stream, the first in the stream list is supposed to be used - which in this case is whats happening. So it seems to be working as expected given the Blu-ray specification, as handled by libbluray. I would expect another Blu-ray player to make the same selection.
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Got it. I was comparing it to LAV Logic. All my discs are full structure rips so it is pretty quick to check over them.
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Any chance of a new build for the weekend to test?
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Doubtful at this point. Possibly.
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Thanks!
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Testing on v101:
- Menu Navigation looks pretty responsive to me! Background Video and Audio worked well (though the occasional background video looks a bit juddery on the odd disc).
- Got some MC Unresponsiveness after stopping playback (can be from a few seconds to 30 seconds)
- UHD BD-J : Does not work but you get a nice msg saying so now
- Blu-ray Pure Audio Discs work
- Stream switching works (audio is not dropped)
- Subtitles can be left on the screen when going from the movie back to the Menu
- A few disc did not work at all (Breaking Bad S4/D1, D2, D3 - all others in the series worked, these ones just sit there with a black screen, no audio and the top progress bar says "0:00 - Live")
- Others (like Game of Thrones, the Walking Dead S4 onwards) would initially not play after a splash screen (or an initial black sequence) then they would stall like the above.... but after restarting MC they were OK. It's almost like MC is holding onto something from the previous playback that is preventing these discs from playing.
- A got a few discs when the Menu asked is I wanted to resume playback, but this did not work (just stayed on the menu - Fargo)
Navigation/Control - Some comments about the interaction between the BD Menus and MC's traditional way of Controlling Media during playback (this testing is just on a KB/Mouse combo - will test a RC / TheaterView setup next):
- Looks like the Java App takes over the arrows keys as they do not bring up the MC OSD Menu (BD-J) but may or may not bring up a BD-J sub menu or position type bar pending on the disc (most do nothing). You still get Arrow Keys bringing up the MC OSD Menu with HDMV authored discs
- Pause/Play Works (also brings up the MC OSD at the bottom)
- Chapter Previous/Next: I'm not sure how (or if you can) see or jump chapters without using the BD Menu.
- Seeking has some issues using either the MC Top GUI or Mouse scroll wheel. A seek will move to that point (as a RWD/FFD not a jump) though often when you get to that point the playback will then not start properly (you end up with a Black Screen/No Audio while playback appears to be progressing). When it works the playback is juddery for a few seconds. I also get a nice Java screen popping up showing where you are going on some discs.
Looks very good so far... Now to do some testing on an HTPC with RC.
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I'm getting a playback failed on my HTPC (Library Server Client). I've installed Java, rebooted etc but still get the error. Is there anything special about Library Server Clients... or ?
0022187: 5196: Playback: DShowVideoGraph::ConnectSourceAndSplitterBlurayMenu: Failed to open file.
Log attached.
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This feature may not be released in MC23, so please keep it quiet for now.
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I guess this and official UHD Support would make good new MC24 features.
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Can't work this one out. 2 x PC's, Menus just fine. 2 x HTPC (connected via AVR, 4K) I get the Failed to Open File error on all discs (HDMV, BD-J even the same msg on UHD). Suggestions?
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While I wait to test on an HTPC, I was thinking about the options for enabling the BD Menu. It is clear that BD Menu effectively replace the MC Menu and turn MC into a CE BD Player. Both the MC and BD Menu have their own advantages, and I would like to use both at times.
I "think" I would like the following options as follows in the settings:
- On: Always use this feature
- Off: Never use this feature
- Ask: On playback ask if you want to use this feature
Swap Menu during Playback: I'd also like to be able to have the ability during playback to jump to the BD Menu and back again. I don't mind that it would restart playback. eg, Playback is using MC Menu, but add an option during playback (OSD and Right Click Menu) to re-launch playback for this disc in BD Menu mode. This would let a user play a disc as we currently do but if something is not right (or you want to access some other content, other eps, alt endings etc) you can restart it with the BD Menu. The hard bit is I'm not sure how you would bring up the option to go from a BD-J Menu back to the MC Menu when the BD-J has control of the navigation keys!
Playback Info: We already have a field that holds users preferences for how to play an item (including streams etc). It could also be used for tagging for what Menu System to use.
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I'm getting a playback failed on my HTPC (Library Server Client). I've installed Java, rebooted etc but still get the error. Is there anything special about Library Server Clients... or ?
Looks to me like libbluray is not being found or loaded properly. Its not even getting to the point where it would print the path of the Blu-ray being opened, and the only check before that is if libbluray and ffmpeg loaded properly.
It looks like the Blu-ray component isn't currently flagging ffmpeg/avcodec for installation, so if you don't have it yet from another use, it might just fail.
Usually it would already be installed from a file import, but I guess clients might not have it.
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What do you suggest I need to do (note both these HTPC play BD just fine when the BD Menu is OFF)?
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Just do something else that requires avcodec to be installed, convert a video, import a video, something like that.
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Thanks - that worked (it did need to download and install avcodec).
On Navigation with the RC, the biggest comment I would have is that at present it can be unintuitive and/or not consistent what the buttons do when in different menus (MC, HDMV, BD-J). I'm happy to make a comparison table if it is helpful of what each MCE Button Cmd does with each of the menu types. Given it is under active development please let me know if this is helpful at this stage, later on, or not at all.
One piece of good news is that the "Menu" button always seems to be grabbed by MC. At present it brings up a "Would you like to play the Disc Currently in your Drive" diag box, but it would be much better if it brought up the MC Menu OSD (like the Up Arrow now does), from which you could then also have the option to launch the BD Main or Popup Menu.
Other things I noticed (primary with BD-J menus)
- Info : Brings up the MC OSD with some limited Info that you cycle through (can't interact with playback, it's just info)
- Exit, Back, and Guide : All seem to do the same think (takes you back to TheaterView with the video paused in the background
- Pause : Pause/Unpauses the Video (and shows the MC OSD playback position)
- Play : does nothing (this is always confusing for my fam. Play should unpause if paused, and start playing if in FFW/RWD)
- FFD/RWD : does as you expect but it is hard to stop it to make it play (as per the above, Play need to work)
- Skip FWD/Back : Back works (goes back to the begining), Skip FWD does not work (no chapter marks is the issue)
- Ch Up / Down : Seems to be the same as Skip FWD/Back
- Nav Keys (Left, Right, Up, Down, OK) : don't do anything during playback but do control the BD Menu when it is viable
- Stop : Works as expected
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The menu really only catches the arrow keys and "enter" and equivalents, plus the Menu key. All others should be about the same as any other playback. Not sure what can be unintuitive about the arrow keys to navigate around in a visual menu? :)
I'm going to see if I can properly detect if a BD-J menu is actually showing so the arrow keys don't get caught during playback when they shouldn't, but otherwise it should already be quite the same between HDMV and BD-J.
I fixed the Menu button on Library Clients, it wasn't properly detecting that it was playing a Blu-ray already when using a remote library, in which case it asks that instead of activating the menu as it should.
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Updated the following...
Here is how it looks in my testing in V101. Most Buttons and Keys are the Same regardless of the menu used, with the items to note being:
- As there are no Chapters Exposed when using BD Menu you can not skip back and forward to these points
- BD-J Menu seems to capture the Nav, OK/Enter, and Play Keys so these may or may not do anything pending what the BD-J Menu wants to do. Mostly nothing happens but sometimes you get the Pop-Up menu with the Up Arrow key
- When doing a FFW or RWD in a BD-J disc to stop it you have to hit "Pause" as "Play" seems to be captured by the BD-J menu.
I fixed the Menu button on Library Clients, it wasn't properly detecting that it was playing a Blu-ray already when using a remote library, in which case it asks that instead of activating the menu as it should.
Thanks - Look forward to testing. Just so I don't lose my notes, On V101....
The "Menu Button" is NOT captured and works the same with all all. Oddly, when you press "Menu" you get a MC OSD Pop Up asking if you want to play a disc in the drive (even if there is not one). If you say no it goes back to the movie. This button would be ideal to use to bring up the MC OSD Menu (eg like the Up Arrow does not in MC and HDMV mode) as it would also work with BD-J Menu & it makes sense to have the "Menu" button bring up the MC Menu. Also I think "Menu" button is a pretty good choice for bringing up the MC Menu and then within that have an option for both the BD Menu (as is now) and the BD Popup Menu (new)
Not sure what can be unintuitive about the arrow keys to navigate around in a visual menu? :)
Yup the arrow keys work well in all menus for nav. The unintuitive part is just when behaviour is different on some discs (eg Up Arrow will not bring up the menu on BD-J, or chapter nav is not available).
Anyway, more comments on how it looks and feels but it is amazing how well it already works! Well Done!
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Another issue I have to dig into is that on my HTPC, when using BD-J I get lots of judder. One thing I noticed is that the madVR present queue drops from the default of 8 to just 2 when playing BD-J discs but seems to stay at 8 with BD Menu OFF or HDMV Menus though I'm not sure if this is the issue or not. It is currently unwatchable and I suspect is also causing some issues when testing Navigation in this mode (was getting stalls and hangs in MC). Will retest again once I can workout how to fix the judder.
Note: I've toggled a few madVR options but it does not help. Any ideas why BD-J discs would judder?
Edit - Tested on my other HTPC and same thing.
FYI - quick test in RO Std. Judder was gone on BD-J and navigation was fine (no stalls and hangs).
Note: I'm testing using the latest LAV Nightly and madVR (not the MC packaged versions)
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Nothing to see here, just a Scratch Pad of Stuff for me to (re)test on the next version (so I don't forget)
- Missing Menu items / colours (retest 13 Hours, '71, Transformers)
- Interaction with "resume playback" (retest on Fargo)
- ROHQ vs RO
- Fast Nav causing issues
- Auto display rate changer (some intro clips are different fps than main movie)
- Retest discs (Breaking Bad S4/D1, D2, D3 - black screen, no audio and the top progress bar says "0:00 - Live")
- Retest discs (Game of Thrones, the Walking Dead S4 onwards)
- Check Play key on BD-J discs (I think it sometimes work for Play/Pause but not when stopping FFD/RWD)
- Retest Menu button on Library Server clients
- 28 Weeks Later (example of only a pop up menu)
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Sometimes in ROHQ, you can not see what is the highlighted menu item (but it is fine in RO). Example attached is from 13 Hours: "The Secret Soldiers of Benghazi" (BD-J)
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Sometimes in ROHQ, you can not see the menu items at all (but it is fine in RO). Example attached is from '71 (BD-J)
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One thing I noticed is that the madVR present queue drops from the default of 8 to just 2 when playing BD-J discs but seems to stay at 8 with BD Menu OFF or HDMV Menus though I'm not sure if this is the issue or not.
madVR will lower the queues when you use an interactive menu, so the interaction has a lower latency. This suffers from the same issue as the menu keys, ie. BD-J is always considered active, which is rather annoying.
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Right, I could see that. As playback of the disc progressed the present queue dropped from 8 to 2 as it hit the BD-J part (and stays there). If that is the case how on earth can we got judder free playback on BD-J discs with madVR (I even dropped the algos to low settings and had processing times of just a few m/sec but it still did not help).
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...also explains why (historically) when bringing up the MC OSD to change a setting it would get all juddery... I just ignored it as when the OSD went away, so did the judder. I always thought it was some mismatch between the video frame rate and that used for the OSD. Thanks for the info, makes sense but I'm not sure how to "fix" it as it is unwatchable if it is for the entire movie. I guess madshi has some work!
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Yeah its quite unfortunate that madVR shows such obvious degredation for some people when in interactive mode. It's just supposed to reduce the latency at the expense of some frame drop safety, not entirely give up smoothness.
I could tell madVR to not do that, but then you might have up to half a second of menu delay, depending on your queue settings.
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Shame it is not a config item that you could select, eg 8 frames for video, and x frames for interactive. How it is now on BD-J discs, madVR would not be a viable renderer. Oddly, I did not notice any issues with either judder or delay with EVR in the menu or when interacting with the menu.
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One title (10 Cloverfield Lane) sits at a black screen when using menus, plays back normally without menus. The only obvious oddity in logs is
0035203: 11984: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: DiscImpl:0: ERROR: Invalid Disc ID 00000000000000000000000000000000
0035219: 11984: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: <unknown.java>:java.io.PrintStream.println:-1: java.io.FileNotFoundException: W:\10 Cloverfield Lane\CERTIFICATE\id.bdmv (The system cannot find the file specified)
0035219: 11984: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: <unknown.java>:java.io.PrintStream.println:-1: at java.io.RandomAccessFile.open0(Native Method)
0035219: 11984: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: <unknown.java>:java.io.PrintStream.println:-1: at java.io.RandomAccessFile.open(Unknown Source)
0035219: 11984: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: <unknown.java>:java.io.PrintStream.println:-1: at java.io.RandomAccessFile.<init>(Unknown Source)
0035219: 11984: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: <unknown.java>:java.io.PrintStream.println:-1: at java.io.RandomAccessFile.<init>(Unknown Source)
0035219: 11984: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: <unknown.java>:java.io.PrintStream.println:-1: at at.c(Unknown Source)
0035219: 11984: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: <unknown.java>:java.io.PrintStream.println:-1: at UpdaterXlet.O(Unknown Source)
0035219: 11984: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: <unknown.java>:java.io.PrintStream.println:-1: at UpdaterXlet.G(Unknown Source)
0035219: 11984: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: <unknown.java>:java.io.PrintStream.println:-1: at UpdaterXlet.e(Unknown Source)
0035219: 11984: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: <unknown.java>:java.io.PrintStream.println:-1: at af.s(Unknown Source)
0035219: 11984: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: <unknown.java>:java.io.PrintStream.println:-1: at af.r(Unknown Source)
0035219: 11984: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: <unknown.java>:java.io.PrintStream.println:-1: at s.run(Unknown Source)
0035219: 11984: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: java.awt.BDRootWindow:0: ERROR: sync(): not visible
not sure if this is related and/or is a known issue?
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Shame it is not a config item that you could select, eg 8 frames for video, and x frames for interactive. How it is now on BD-J discs, madVR would not be a viable renderer. Oddly, I did not notice any issues with either judder or delay with EVR in the menu or when interacting with the menu.
EVR always has a relatively low latency in comparison to madVR, since it doesn't pre-render a whole bunch of frames, so it doesn't enter any special interactive mode like madVR does.
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One title (10 Cloverfield Lane) sits at a black screen when using menus, plays back normally without menus. The only obvious oddity in logs is
I can't tell from that alone if its related, but is this not a complete rip, or something like that? That file its referencing should usually be available, unless you only saved the BDMV folder instead of all of it, or something like that.
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EVR always has a relatively low latency in comparison to madVR, since it doesn't pre-render a whole bunch of frames, so it doesn't enter any special interactive mode like madVR does.
In Hendrik and madshi we trust....
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I can't tell from that alone if its related, but is this not a complete rip, or something like that? That file its referencing should usually be available, unless you only saved the BDMV folder instead of all of it, or something like that.
all my BDs are complete rips, I can't see an id.bdmv in any of them though.
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FYI - MC only rips the BDMV folder (and does not copy the CERTIFICATE or any other root folder and never has) + disc.inf file if using AnyDVDHD. That said, I've had no issues so far with playback on my MC based ripped without the CERTIFICATE folder (which would be 99% of what I have). I don't have 10 Cloverfield Lane however.
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Yeah its quite unfortunate that madVR shows such obvious degredation for some people when in interactive mode. It's just supposed to reduce the latency at the expense of some frame drop safety, not entirely give up smoothness.
I could tell madVR to not do that, but then you might have up to half a second of menu delay, depending on your queue settings.
Thanks for the tips. After more playing I reduced the queues in madVR down to 8 for decoder and 4 for the rest. Judder seems to be gone so far with both OSD and on BD-J in general.
I also updated to the latest nvidia GPU drivers and I'm now seeing some different issues to the screen shots I posted for:
1) '71 : Will not play now (black screen 0.00-live in the timeline)
2) 13 Hours : Menu Selection is now highlighted correctly
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Which queue settings did you use before to get the strong judder? Might help when I talk to madshi about that to have more details.
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I had run the madvr "restore default settings.bat" when testing to make sure it was not any "dumb" setting I'd previously made, so it was "stock" at 16 for the decoder and 8 for the rest. I'll test on my other HTPC now.
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Yup reducing the queues on the other HTPC also worked in removing the judder.
Do you need any logs or testing on the discs that just "black screen : 0:00 - Live"?
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OK: Here are two logs from "'71"
- 71 Log OK.TXT : From my main PC, plays fine, starts with the black screen on 0:00 - Live but then progress just fine.
- 71 Log No Play.TXT : From a Library Server client, gets stuck on the opening black screen and does not progress, just sits on 0:00 - Live
Both logs have an error about opening the missing id.bdmv / certificate folder but that does not seem to matter (well I hope not as I'd hate to need to re-rip over 1,000 discs!)
Edit: It does not matter if it is EVR or madVR - same issue. Also on this particular disc it was playing OK on my HTPC (with some issues with missing menu items), but when I upgraded nvidia to 390.77 it now stalls. The Desktop PC that is fine with this disc is on 388.13
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For the failure case there is an error here:
C:\Users\HTPC\AppData\Local\Temp\libbluray-bdj-cache\150636202101\mount\00000\null\res/BLACK/Black.png does not exist
It fails shortly after because the image is missing.
Perhaps you can try deleting the entire libbluray-bdj-cache folder in the Temp folder?
Not sure why that might fail randomly on some systems and not others. Usually the folder should be empty after playback is stopped, so it cleans up after itself. It needs to unpack some files from the BD-J .jar files there so they can be loaded, if that fails for unknown reasons, stuff is missing and stuff fails.
I don't really see how that might be related to graphics drivers, though, unless your C drive is suddenly full =p
I should add a way to enable more libbluray logging, which might shine some light on whats going on, but its just so spammy.
Actually, libbluray has a built-in way to override the debug mask: Set an environment variable called "BD_DEBUG_MASK", and give it a value of "241663". Make sure to restart MC after setting that, and see your log getting spammed with a lot of stuff
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Interesting, I'll give those ideas a go. It could be permission related as on that HTPC I could not open the Log from the MC GUI (said permission denied) which I have never seen before... I had to open it with Explorer to be able to add it to my post above. I'll have more of a test and report back.
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It looks like the HTPC is cleaning up after itself just fine (however the "Main PC" is leaving some items behind in the libbluray-bdj-cache directory and the log shows entries like : 20706406: 12192: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: org.videolan.CacheDir:0: ERROR: Error removing C:\Users\natha\AppData\Local\Temp\libbluray-bdj-cache\330757500243532)
Anyway, I've linked to the Zip files (3mb each) of the content of these directory from both the HTPC (does not play) and the MAIN (does play). Interestingly the Black.png file is not in
..."mount\00000\null\res/BLACK/Black.png" on either PC but is actually in
..."VFSCache\BDMV\JAR\00001\res\BLACK\Black.png" on both
There is no "...\null\" subdirectory I can find anywhere in the structure.
BDJ Cache - Main.zip (https://jmone.org/nextcloud/index.php/s/M2JDKkFkPDd2FAx)
BDJ Cache - HTPC (https://jmone.org/nextcloud/index.php/s/gizbcGAAcMiDoSi)
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Well good news (though I can not explain it)..but,
- Tried also removing the "...AppData\Roaming\bluray" folder that is also created when playing a UHD, no luck with playback,
- Tried with a Local Library, no luck with playback
- Rebooted the HTPC again and it now plays on the HTPC with both the Local Library and also as a Library Server client (still get the missing menu items).
So something had became stuck for this disc on my HTPC and is now fine. I'll check on the 2nd HTPC once people stop watching content and see what (if any particular action works).
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Tried all of the above with the other HTPC. No Luck on that one (yet). I'll be away for a few days from tmr morning. Good Luck and thanks again.
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Thanks for all your testing, Nathan. Apologies to your wife.
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My pleasure. You should feel sorry for Hendrik trying to decipher my ramblings! FYI, it is interesting to see what is on some of these discs. 28 days has 4 alt endings.
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FYI, it is interesting to see what is on some of these discs. 28 days has 4 alt endings.
This is why I wanted BD menus! It is great that it is coming along. Thanks guys.
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Hey Hendrik, I'm back at home later today. Anything you want me to test?
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I'll also note that the MCE remote Menu button did nothing at any time. Even with a Blu-ray that skipped the menu and played the title immediately, the menu button didn't cause any title selection dialogue to display.
I'm not sure if the MCE menu button is always automatically hooked up. Maybe you need to go into the remote control dialog and "learn" the button and map it to the "DVD Menu" functionality. I remember having done that in the past. I'm not sure why the menu button would be special though, that part is really not my area. :)
Just to confirm that my Harmony remote "Menu" button is now working, and is linked to the standard "DVD Menu" MCE function.
For some reason I had changed the Harmony configuration at some time, so that it used the Harmony "Menu" function. I remapped that back to the standard MCE "DVD Menu" in the Harmony software, rather than learning it in MC. Some brief testing shows that is doing what I expected.
Well done Nathan for doing all that testing. I still plan to do some real testing, but time, access to the HTPC when it isn't busy... You know.
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Hey Hendrik, I'm back at home later today. Anything you want me to test?
Nothing really new in 103 yet. The next build hopefully improves seeking, and I'm currently compiling information for madshi to help figure out the judder in interactive mode.
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Thanks - any thoughts on the BD-J menus that are missing their menu options (eg they work but you can not see them)?
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Not yet, will have to find a disc that shows such a problem.
On the OSD madVR "Judder", which rendering do you use? D3D9/11 FSE? D3D11 windowed? Can you test if that makes a difference for you?
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OK - I'll check the judder info (but it is fine with the reduced queue levels). I have plenty of discs with the missing info like:
- Inception
- '71
Do you also want any info on the discs that get "stuck" on the black screen 0:00 - Live ?
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Judder Testing (used 13 Hours): set madVR back to default (using the batch file) - the tested the following configs:
1) Default Settings = Judder (D3D11 Full Screen Windowed, Queues are 16/8/8/8 then change to 16/8/8/2 in interactive mode at which point it Judders) :(
2) Default + Un-Check "Use Direct3D 11 for presentation" = No Judder (D3D9 Fullscreen windowed, Queues are 16/8/8/8 then change to 16/8/8/2 in interactive mode) :)
3) Default + Change GPU Queue Size to 4 = No Judder (D3D11 Full Screen Windowed, Queues are 16/4/4/4 then change to 16/4/4/2 in interactive mode) :)
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Thanks, madshi will look at it for an upcoming version soon. Hopefully he can fix it!
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:) At least we have some recomendations for those that get judder that fix the issue while we wait. The bigger issue to me are the following as it really stop playback.
Missing Items: This one is also madVR related with missing BD-J menu items on some PC's with some combination of settings I've not yet worked out. Seems fine with EVR. I'll see if I can narrow it down to what combo in madVR stops these from being displayed correctly (any hints?)
Black Screen 0.00-Live Issue: I've also got no further on working out what the common factor for this one is and why it happens on some PC's, not other, then works, then does not work....
Menu: Also the Menu button for me now works but it is interesting it is not consistent with how some discs are authored. Eg on most it just "works". On "13 Hours" it does nothing ... but the Up/Down key brings up their popup menu. Odd. I'm still thinking that using the Menu button to bring up the MC OSD Menu (to which has then links to the BD Menu and BD Pop-up menu would unify the User experience as it would then be the same for all disc types).
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madVR FSE: Does weird things for me (I've not used it for years). Like a black screen when it switches to FSE mode and when you Stop the video MC's UI is still covered with a frame from the video. You have to close MC and MC Server / Restart to get the MC GUI back. To me it is a low priority as I'm not sure many even use FSE much anymore???
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I'm still thinking that using the Menu button to bring up the MC OSD Menu (to which has then links to the BD Menu and BD Pop-up menu would unify the User experience as it would then be the same for all disc types).
I'm not so happy with this idea. I would like the Menu button to act just like it does on a BD Player. But I can see the merit as it gives us more flexibility. So I could accept it. I'm not sure that is possible anyway, given that the BD menu system is already in full control once a BD is playing.
However, I would only want it to work this way if something was already playing. If I insert a Blu-ray into my HTPC I have it set up not to play automatically. If I then pressed the Menu button I would like the BD to play and go to the BD menu. Basically, it would work the same as selecting the Blu-ray disc under the Theatre View video menu and selecting play, without the additional navigation steps.
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Pressing the Menu key when nothing is playing will ask you if you want to play a disc currently in your drive - if its a DVD or Blu-ray. It has already done this before, fwiw. Once we figure out how to make a choice between menu and title playback, we could make that option always play in Menu mode, but thats for later.
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It's good to toss around how this might work (but plenty of time for now as other things to work on).
It's more that it's going to be hard for a user to know if they should use Up Arrow, Menu, Side Arrow etc to access a setting from their RC as at present it can be different depending on disc type, menu type, how the disc is authored and if the enable menu option is selected. Of all the nav keys, it seems that MC is able to see a "Menu" key press regardless of the above combination. To me it therefore makes sense that this button is the key one to unify the Menu UI Experience. Also - The function of the Menu button could be different between when media is playing, or not playing (but just in the ODD). I also don't mind if it is some other key, as long as there is some way to make it consistent to bring up a menu.
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Yep, I skipped mentioning the "Do you want to play the {optical disc}" message. But that is what I would prefer, if the "Enable Blu-ray Menus" option is selected: Ask if I want to play, when I select yes, play the Blu-ray as if it was being played in a hardware Blu-ray player, which means all the warnings and rubbish, if present, are played, and then the Blu-ray menu is displayed.
If the "Enable Blu-ray Menus" option is not selected, then the title track of the Blu-ray would be played.
If a Blu-ray was being played, the menu button would return the user to the Blu-ray menu, possibly at a lower level menu such as an outtakes sub-menu, just like a real hardware player. I haven't actually used a Blu-ray or DVD hardware player in years and years, but from memory that is what they do. Depending on the optical disc authoring of course.
If the OSD up/down arrow could be used to access the Blu-ray menu or the title list, that would be my prefered method.
If you had to use the menu button while a disc was playing (either a title or the menu) to access the menu or title list, then I would accept that as it does provide more flexibility. But it would be inconsistent with a hardware Blu-ray player experience I think, so may cause transitional problems for users learning to play Blu-rays in MC.
Basically, the Menu button acts like a traditional hardware Blu-ray player, while the Up/Down Arrow OSD acts like the traditional MC OSD menus.
A user wants the Blu-ray Menu (at any time) they press the Menu button.
A user wants the title list in a playing Blu-ray, they press the up button, or if the Blu-ray menu system provides a title list, they press the menu button to get back to the Blu-ray menu, and then navigate to that title list.
It's always good to get the groundwork done on deciding what the endpoint will be, so that development isn't done that would lock out the best solution. Hence, I am sharing my current feelings.
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The trouble I have is all my media is ripped to the server. Most are BD Structures, some are Particles, some are M2TS, some are MKV etc etc. When playing a video in TheaterView I don't really know what the source is (or care for that matter). When I need to access the menu (it could be the BD-J, HDMV, MC OSD, DVD etc) I just want the consistency of being able to press the one button to access the menus. It appears that of the Nav Keys, MC currently can see the "Menu" key press where as it can not always see an "Arrow" key press.
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Back Screen 0:00 - Live : More logs and comments:
Log.txt: This is one that appears to be stalled but it just not showing it's menu when using madVR (sample Transformers), looks and works fine in EVR but with madVR it is just a blackscreen. The menu is working, and you can progress but you just can't see what you have selected.
Log2.txt: I can not see any error in the log but no luck with EVR or madVR. Tried pressing keys etc but it did no progress as it did with the above (sample Breaking Bad S4 D3).
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Hmmm. Yeah I rip full BD structures at the moment, and may use MKV in future.
But if the BD has been ripped, regardless of format, you would be selecting the movie in MC, in which case Play or OK are the correct buttons to press, and if BD Menus are turned on and the rip contains a BD Menu, the BD Menu should display. Otherwise the ripped title would play. With an optical disc in the drive the Menu button would ask if it should be played.
Once playing MC should work as I described above if BD Menus are present. If the movie was just a title rip, what would you want the Menu button to do? I guess you may have an MKV file with multiple titles in it but no BD Menu. But in that case the Up/Down Arrow OSD seems logical. In other words, if you press Menu nothing happens, which means that there is no BD Menu, so press the Up Arrow.
I guess because you use Particles a lot you would have lots of titles in one file, and so would want to have the one button give quick access to the titles list. Plus if those situations where the Arrow keys can't be seen can't be resolved, which is yet to be confirmed once the fundamentals of BD Menus are sorted out, then I can see that the Menu button is potentially a universal way to access functions.
But my goto button when I want to make changes to playback while watching something is the Up Arrow button. I would like that to remain so if possible.
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I'm talking about how to get to A Menu (either MC's or Disc Based) when the movie is playing (not how to start playback). Eg, at present we have 2 ways of triggering a Menu (with BD Menu set to ON). The following happen when you press the Up Arrow and Menu button:
BD-J
- Up Arrow = Nil (occasional it may trigger the disc Pop-up Menu)
- Menu = Disc based Menu (occasionally no menu appears and you have to use a Pop Up Menu by pressing Up Arrow)
BD HDMV
- Up Arrow = MC OSD Menu (already includes an option to run the BD Menu but not the PopUp Menu)
- Menu = Disc based Menu (if there is one, else it restarts the movie)
File:
- Up Arrow = MC OSD Menu
- Menu = Nil
DVD:
- Up Arrow = MC OSD Menu (already includes an option to run the DVD Menu)
- Menu = Disc based Menu
So the simple task of changing a subtitle at present is to press which button during playback? I'm suggesting that we have ONE button that will always brings up A menu regardless of the media being played. At present neither the Up Arrow or Menu button does this.
I personally think it should be the Menu button and that it triggers the MC OSD with the items displayed dependant on what the media is including an option for Launching the disc based DVD or BD Menus if appropriate, eg
- Exactly how the Up Arrow works now for both File, DVD, and HDMV but this does not work with BD-J (and also the popup option needs to be added)
Note: this is how the Right Click option already works (but this is of course not a TheaterView OSD). With the right Click option you see the menu items that includes options for launching the DVD/BD Menus on structure rips and direct stream selection for Files.
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I understand.
But I look at your summary above and see just one (and a half) issues to resolve for a completely consistent user experience.
1. Get the Up Arrow OSD working on BD-J rips and discs. If possible.
1.5 Get the popup working. This is the popup generated by the BD-J code, right? I need to try this on more discs. I rarely use it because it isn't obvious. Trigger it through the OSD?
1.51 The menu button does nothing when playing a file, which is logical to me as I don't expect MC to pop up a menu for a file, based on my user experience. I expect the OSD on Up Arrow though.
If 1. isn't possible I would concur with your preference. But it would either involve a change in the user experience, where the Up Arrow no longer bought up the OSD for any media type, or it would require that both the Up Arrow and the Menu button have the same response for DVDs and BD HDMV discs, with no response for files and BD-J media (mostly).
So either there will be an inconsistency or a large change in how MC works, with respect to the five-button control policy.
But my preference is that the Up Arrow MC OSD gives a user access to all functionality, including being able to launch the Disc Menu and Popup, while the Menu button always takes me to the Disc (DVD/BD) Menu, regardless of format, and does nothing for files since files they don't have menus. Of course, I'm including full folder rips of discs as discs, and maybe even ISO rips. Not sure about the latter as I don't use them currently, or plan to.
I guess our differing opinions are giving Hendrik and the team something to think about anyway. 8)
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I think that is right. I don't really care what button is used... just "1 button to rule them all" for menu activation regardless of file type. I don't want to have use Up Arrow for some, Menu for other.
To me it makes sense to expand the use of the "Menu" button to always brings up A Menu regardless of what it is. It would also work if the Menu button worked with file playback the same as the Up Arrow function is now (the OSD is a menu after all). The big advantage of Up Arrow is it works with RC and KB that don't have a Menu Button. The downside is it looks like BD-J grabs the arrow keys but maybe Hendrik can work around that.
Also, I'm not sure the Pop Up menu option is working that well yet or that most BD discs employ a pop-up menu at all.
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Up Arrow should definitely be working to bring up the MC OSD even on BD-J discs, consider it a bug that it doesn't work, not as a fact that it never will. I might also add an option to open the popup menu (or at least tell the BD to, no guarantee that it has one) to the MC OSD. BD Menus are basically programmable logic, much of this is basically just forwarding user input to its logic, and then either it reacts or it doesn't. Thats both good and bad, I don't have to do anything, but I also cannot do anything. :)
In BD menu playback, the Menu key will still be useful however, because its up to the BD to interpret it - specifically when another Menu is already active and taking over the arrow keys - although from what I have seen, you can navigate around in them without it, you just lack the shortcut to return to the disc menu with one button press.
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Thanks! Here is the latest of my map of what button does what in what mode (highlighted areas are where the the function is not consistent).
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I can also export chapter markers, I just wonder if MC is smart enough to refresh them when the title changes, or if I'll have to teach it... :)
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All sounds good. I was reading the libbluray api doco and saw that it did include the ability to skip fwd / back by chapter and it would be great to keep this function.
I can confirm that Up Arrow at present does not work with BD-J to bring up the OSD (but on some discs will bring up the BD Pop Up Menu). It would be good to add the BD Pop-up menu as an OSD option (like right click) but.... How many disc even have this? I would have thought most but I've only seen a couple so far (so I'm not sure if it is working correctly in MC).
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Another Q - are UltraHD BD-J menus different in some way?
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Sort of. Its not fundamentally different, but since BD-J discs basically run a Java program, they also expect a certain interface to talk to the player, and that was extended for UHD. I don't have UHD Blu-ray specifications, and on the libbluray side there also hasn't been much movement for UHD BD-J yet, so we'll just have to be patient.
In other news, I implemented a work-around for the "BD-J Menu Always On" issue, with threads and SSE2 and all the bells and whistles (because it basically just checks the image if its fully transparent). Unfortunately, you may need to wait a while before a new version for testing will be available.
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Thanks - if there is anything you want tested this weekend?
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Yikes how did I miss this topic?? Ok, I got some testing to do it seems. :)
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Getting old?
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Yup, birthday on Monday LOL
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All of this is obviously a WIP and Hendrik has said that due to the high rate of change there is no Changelog as Such, here is a summary from what I've seen at this point of time on V103:
- It basically works! Both for HDMV and BD-J menus.
- No support for UHD or 3D discs
- There are more issues with madVR than with EVR
- Main Issues include Stuttering, Black Screens, and Missing Menu Items
- If stuttering on madVR, reduce your GPU Queue from 8 to 4 or use D3D9 (not D3D11) Windowed Mode
- You will get less Black Screens and Missing Menu Items on EVR than madVR
- Seeking is patchy (missing Chapter + / -, and if you seek, it will mostly stall but sometimes work)
- Not all buttons work the same way on all discs
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...also I was so used to having LAV Splitter I'd always assumed it would be part of the filter chain but, "Blu-ray Navigator" replaces LAV Splitter. As a result you don't have exposed (and allowing the selection of) the streams/titles etc directly, you have to use the BD menu.
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Ohhh, ok that's very good to know. Thanks for the heads up!
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Any later updates to test?
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You'll need to wait for the first builds of MC24 for further testing.
But here is a preliminary log of changes to get you all excited:
- Seeking should be fixed
- Subtitles "stuck" after seeking, or stopping to work after seeking, should be fixed
- BD-J discs have the MC OSD working (and are also no longer "stuck" in interactive mode)
- MC OSD has options for both menu options (disc & popup)
- Missing menu overlays should (hopefully) be fixed
- The MC OSD always takes keyboard precedence if its already open - ie. when using it to seek on a BD-J disc which then shows a popup to indicate seeking position
- MC ships LAV 0.71 to help with seamless title changes
Some Java discs still randomly are a bit buggy. Sometimes just restarting the disc works. Not sure whats up with those, this Java stuff is just super annoying to work with, probably I'll just have to observe it for a bit longer.
Next I'm looking into chapter information, and possibly also allowing audio and subtitle stream changes from the MC OSD (not sure if that'll work, we'll see)
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Sounds great, that list will fix pretty much everything!
Is now also a good time to discuss how the Menu Option will work as an option in MC? At the moment is is either On or Off.
Personally, I'd like On/Off/Ask but also have the ability to:
1) Auto Fail over to normal MC OSD Menus. MC should always play the disc even if it can not play the BD Menu (at present if you try to play a 4K disc you get the msg saying it is not supported and no way to then play the disc).
2) When "OFF" (eg playing using MC OSD Menus), still have the option to bring up the BD Menu from the MC OSD (Don't mind if playback has to start again). Scenario here is using the MC OSD Menu mode as default to watch the movie but then you want to kick it into BD Menu to have a look at extras etc...
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^
I would like the same, option 2 is the only use case I expect anyone in this house to use (I don't think my children even know that menus and all that faffing around before a film starts is even a thing, I guess I could use "force menu on for kids films" as a punishment strategy though ;D)
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Yeah - I suspect Option 2 would be the default for us but I plan to test the family on what they prefer as I've been wrong on this stuff many times before. Who knows, maybe they like seeing the 10min of crap at the start of the video.
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Personally, I'd like On/Off/Ask but also have the ability to:
1) Auto Fail over to normal MC OSD Menus. MC should always play the disc even if it can not play the BD Menu (at present if you try to play a 4K disc you get the msg saying it is not supported and no way to then play the disc).
2) When "OFF" (eg playing using MC OSD Menus), still have the option to bring up the BD Menu from the MC OSD (Don't mind if playback has to start again). Scenario here is using the MC OSD Menu mode as default to watch the movie but then you want to kick it into BD Menu to have a look at extras etc...
These options would be ideal for me as well. They pretty much cover my use case for BD menus: Want them available. Don't always know when I want them, so want to be able to access them even when I have said No to the question. Don't want to be going back into settings to turn off or on BD menus for specific viewings.
I could actually live with the On/Off setting, which I would leave off, as long as I could access the BD menu after starting playback of a movie by title. But other users may prefer the question on each playing, and if menus are on, failover to playing the title would almost be a must. I don't want to see "I can't play that" when I sit down to watch a movie with someone.
Most other users of my system would just expect to see the BD menu, just like any other player.
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Should "Ask" remember? Or just ask everytime?
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I think it should ask every time if it is a system level option. I can see how a tag based override (which is what I think a remember option means) could be useful though.
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Mmmmm - I think it should be the same as Resume Playback option, just a simple Yes/No/Ask or you could get trapped into always getting the BD Menu if you just once looked at some extras.... but it would be great to have an option to somehow tag or selectively remember (Playback Info?) if you want to default to a menu type (eg my BD TV Shows I'd always want a Menu as there are multiple eps on each disc).
For once I'm not sure what to suggest :o that would work well at the TheaterView level for this....
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I like that. yes/no/ask sounds reasonable.
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If set to Ask, ask every time.
Unless there is something in Playback Info that has set the answer for that particular disc. I guess the only way to save such a setting would be to remember it though. So how about like Subtitles. i.e. MC remembers what you answered the last time you played the BD, but if you change your mind and use the menus to do the opposite, then remembers the new answer, which would be Yes or No.
Once Yes, or No has been selected and remembered a user would have to clear that bit of the Playback Info tag.
Or introduce a field in the BD Info display that was actually a setting with a drop-down list; Yes/No/Ask. But that would be a radical departure from past standards.
Thinking more, if set to Ask, ask every time.
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Re: fail-over to title playback, I think I would still like a notification to the user of some sort that he requested Menu Playback, but its not available. Specifically for cases like "You need to install Java", or something like that.
I could use a message box with a short self-close timer (say 5-10s) and resume afterwards, but people might find that too intrusive.
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I like that MC would say that you need to install Java (or better still download and install it like with other plugins).... I was more interested if that if UHD BD Menus are not supported that it would just play as normal (unless you have worked out how to play UHD BD Menus that is)
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Java is problematic, we'll have to have users install that manually for now.
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Java is problematic
Not to mention due to how popular a target Java is for vulnerabilities and malware, it adds an additional attack vector to the PC. I personally won't let Java or Flash for that matter (even though Flash is bundled in Windows for IE/Edge and I've disabled it as good as I can until MS actually removes it in a few years) touch my computers unless it's inside a virtual machine.
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Unless you install a Java browser plugin, it really doesn't expose you to anything new directly. Its just some files that sit on your drive.
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Not to mention due to how popular a target Java is for vulnerabilities and malware, it adds an additional attack vector to the PC. I personally won't let Java or Flash for that matter (even though Flash is bundled in Windows for IE/Edge and I've disabled it as good as I can until MS actually removes it in a few years) touch my computers unless it's inside a virtual machine.
I do Java for years for several big world companies, there is not more threats in Java than any other piece of software. As part of a browser it's indeed a potential risk, but as used as it's in BRD, you are safer than using JRiver itself.
The main problem is, as Hendrik said, the fact that we have to install it, and since the Oracle site is pretty cryptic, it's not obvious for users to choose the right package.
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Java is problematic, we'll have to have users install that manually for now.
Room Equalization Wizard (REW) (https://www.roomeqwizard.com/) uses Java and offers the following downloads:
- Windows installer with JRE (30.5MB, includes private Java 8 runtime)
- Windows installer (15.1MB, requires separate Java 7 or 8 installation)
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I have considered that, and will keep the possibility in mind to ship a private JRE. At least we know its a version that works then, which is a plus, but its also quite big.
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Further changes so far:
- "Ask" mode is in
- Context Menu options in both Menu and Title mode to switch to the opposite
- OSD option in Title mode to switch to Menu - no opposite of this yet, since often you won't be able to open the OSD when you're in the menu, so that felt awkward.
Feedback on the wording of those options might be good.
I've been thinking about adding options in the Theater View roller to directly play in menu/title mode, not sure if people would find and use that?
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I've been thinking about adding options in the Theater View roller to directly play in menu/title mode, not sure if people would find and use that?
this sounds potentially useful though perhaps would be used quite rarely
is there an MCWS call that will allow playing in one mode or the other? this would be useful I think
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No way for MCWS to do that yet. Not sure how that would work. A special parameter just for one type of file feels iffy.
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Can't wait to play some more!
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Just did some quick random tests on my desktop (while it is building thumbs) and looks good. Did see some oddness but I'll need to test properly but,
- Seeking works really well
- Menu selection works (OSD, Main, Popup)
- Ask works but I then did see on 4K the popup saying not supported if you select the BD Menus
- I did get MC hanging on one disc
- Items seems to be drawn correctly in madVR
- No need to install any nightlies etc
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No way for MCWS to do that yet. Not sure how that would work. A special parameter just for one type of file feels iffy.
some of the MCWS calls do all sorts of things already so I'm not sure such an option makes it any iffier
File/GetInfo has an action option into which one could hide such an option otherwise just adding another parameter would probably do the job
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Seriously good implementation! I love how there is the blend of the MC OSD and the BD Menu, it works and works really well.
Couple of notes:
- Fixed: Stuttering (you do get some as the madVR queues move back and foward when in interactive mode but it is only a couple of seconds and most)
- Fixed: Missing menu items
- Fixed: Navigation Stalls (it works really well and you can ffwd many but not all of the into clips). I also like how you can use the MC right / left arrow and sometimes the BD Chapter menu pops up at the same time. Very cool
Issues I found:
- Still get a black screen stall on some discs (Breaking Bad later season discs). How do you want me to diagnose / test this one further?
- You can't get out of some of the Pop Up Menus (the ones without an exit option). I "presume" you are meant to push a button like Back or Exit but these take you back to the MC GUI. Ideally if in a BD Menu "Back" would close the menu.
- Need to auto fall back to Title Playback on UHD (unless support for this is coming soon).
- Chapter Skip ( |<< and >>|) still take to either to the start of the title or to the next title (not between chapters but I know you have said these are not currently exposed)
Where do I send the caseofbeer (warm of course!)
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Where do I send the caseofbeer (warm of course!)
Don't mess with us. We have the coordinates and a really big button.
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I have a confession (that could get my passport revoked).... I don't like what we Aussies call beer (eg lager), it's just heartburn in a glass. Don't mind the warm Ales the Poms make ... but a Pint of the stuff?!?!?
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- You can't get out of some of the Pop Up Menus (the ones without an exit option). I "presume" you are meant to push a button like Back or Exit but these take you back to the MC GUI. Ideally if in a BD Menu "Back" would close the menu.
There is no "back" button in the Blu-ray input definition. I imagine you're supposed to press the popup menu key again, which is not a key we actually have, so thats a bit of a problem. :)
The only keys it has is the arrow keys, enter, numeric 0-9 (which we don't use), the 4 color buttons (which we also don't pass to the menu), and the disc menu + popup menu keys - of which we only have one.
Unfortunately its also impossible to know what the menu is currently showing, so I can't "guess" and map "back" or something to the popup menu key while its open.
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Interesting.... I'll see if I can map the PopUp Menu to a key and see what it does (or not).
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I'm with you Nathan. Horrible stuff that piss.
Give me a good red wine, or recently, and superb whisky especially if Japanese, anytime.
Hendrik, are you passing the popup key to the menu? Because if you are, those of us using Harmony remotes or similar may be able to map a button to that key. Not a global solution for all users, but adds the possibility.
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For testing, I'm access the Pop Up Menu from the MC OSD as my Harmony only has a single "Menu" key. Not all discs have a Pop Up Menu, Some only have a Pop Up Menu (eg the Menu key does not work), many discs have both. The idea of the the Pop Up menus is to get access to streams etc while in the middle of playback and while some have an Exit option, some don't, so you get stuck with the Pop Up Menu being displayed. All nice an consistent ::)
I'll see if I can map the Pop Up Menu to a Harmony Key
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Hendrik, are you passing the popup key to the menu? Because if you are, those of us using Harmony remotes or similar may be able to map a button to that key. Not a global solution for all users, but adds the possibility.
There is no popup key that MC knows. I also don't think that MCE remotes for example have one to even map to (which is where the other Menu key comes from)
I can probably add a MCC command for it, then you can learn it in MCs remote control dialog. But its hardly an out-of-the-box solution.
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Another Q - is it possible to know what Playlist is being used?
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You can read the log, it probably says. :P
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But its hardly an out-of-the-box solution.
No, but it adds the functionality to create a solution, and if it is documented many users will set it up, I'm sure. Harmony, FLIR, Girder, etc. could probably be configured to use it. So an MCC command would probably do the trick.
For example, I could probably add a Device in the Harmony setup for a Blu-ray player, and that would have a Popup button. There is possibly an issue in that MC doesn't seem able to learn all IR codes, so it may not learn the popup button code required. But I still have a few Extended MCE IR codes that I haven't used that MC can learn and could be assigned to a Harmony custom button.
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Nothing I can see in the logs to say what MPLS is used ... No biggie it would make it handy to know what MPLS is what EPS on some discs as they are out of order.
What I did see in the logs was many thousands of these lines from when playback is stopped:
0037031: 4632: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: End of title (0)
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I should probably skip that event, it can be pretty noisy, for some reason it repeats on BD-J discs. Anyway you're looking for "ProcessEvent: Playlist (xxx)", the number there is the file - without the leading zeros. Of course Intros and Menus also have Playlists, so you still have to find the right one.
Next version will have a MCC command for the Popup Menu, and its also an entry in the remote control "learn" dialog. So you can either learn it there, or setup something like EventGhost to run like "MC24.exe /MCC 10065" if thats more convenient in your seutp.
PS:
Speaking about Hamonies, I'm so sad they don't make the original Harmony One anymore, or any proper replacement model. It had keys that felt good to use and an overall good handling. The odd rubber keys on the Harmony 665/650/350 are just not something I like. But my Harmony One broke :(
Currently using a 350 because its cheap, but it doesn't even have backlit keys which is really annoying me, so might replace it with a bigger model. Are there even any other vendors with programmable remotes of a decent quality anymore? Seems like everyone wants you to use your phone, which I hate even more.
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Thanks that should work. Just play through to the eps, then look up the log file from the bottom. I'm not sure I've ever seen Fargo (TV) eps in the right order!
And Yup - the Harmony One was the best remote they ever made. I'm now using Harmony Ultimates with the base but you have to wait till they are on special as they are so very expensive. These are also too sensitive, my wife (or dog) will bump the screen and it fires off commands all the time.
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...any suggestions on what to do this weekend re the discs that stall on the opening black screen to narrow it down?
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I was going to buy a Harmony One way back, but my Harmony 880 was still working fine, so I didn't. I should have. Or two. Or three.
I've fixed at least three buttons on my Harmony 880, putting in little spacers so that the contact point gets pressed a little harder. I've also re-soldered on the USB port twice, and the second time reinforced the mounting. Plus improved the contacts on the remote so that it always connects and charges on the base station without wiggling, which was a common complaint. I'm even still on the original rechargeable battery!
Get on it Hendrik, you can fix your old Harmony One if you still have it! Or maybe there are second-hand ones (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Boxed-logitech-harmony-One-colour-universal-touch-screen-remote-control/292454693744?hash=item4417a87b70:g:DwAAAOSw3sJakDGu) around that still work?
On the issue of alternatives, there aren't any that support the Activities Based use, as far as I know, and I really love that paradigm. I'm pretty sure the Harmony patented the approach, so now Logitech owns it. The current line does look pretty bad. I think you have the best choice now with the 350. The 650 doesn't seem to add much. I don't want a hub, or whole house control, particularly Logitech's. I just want a better IR or wireless remote when the 880 finally dies. :'(
There are still some Harmony Ultimate One remotes on sale in Australia, but from memory, they were not as good as the original Harmony One. No number buttons!
So sorry, no recommendations from me. :(
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Here is a log from a black screen freeze.
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There is some BD-J exception happening there, not sure I can really do anything about that. Might just be something incomplete/a bug in libbluray, or the disc is being extra weird.
I might have some luck with the disc at hand, but one should go into this with the eyes open that not necessarily 100% of all discs are always going to work.
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Thanks - I understand. Whats the best way of reporting back bugs / logs etc to the devs of the library to look at? .... or do we just bring it to your attention for now? :)
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You could post in the thread that announces the build. Or put a link there to any other discussion.
Go easy on us for a while. Big bad bugs first.
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I might make a dedicated thread to document discs which don't work at all, not sure yet. Might be good to keep track of those to avoid constant repeated reports.
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MC crashes when trying to play BD/50p HDMV (home video authored with PowerDirector). Looking at the log, there is a "libbluray/bdnav/bdmv_parse.c:66: bdmv_parse_header(MPLS): unsupported file version 0240" and a couple of lines latter, "Unhandled exception -- program crashing". This format is really the updated BD spec that MC/LAV added some years (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,92880.msg646621.html#msg646621) ago for progressive 50/60.
Note: If I edit the *.clpi and *.mpls headers from 0240 to 0200 it plays fine.
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The crash dump would be more useful then the log in such cases. :)
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Ack - Here is the whole zip file including the crash dump.
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5. NEW: Chapter information is available when playing a Blu-ray with Menus
I'm not sure what I'm looking for. I don't see any Chapter Info in either the MC OSD or the Right Click menu. |<< and >>| also takes you to the start / end.
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Is it possible to "relax" the Menu support to include UHD BD? As a test, I took "10 Cloverfield Lane" UHD and eddied the headers of index.bdmv, MovieObject.bdmv, *.mpls, *.bdjo, *.clpi from xxxx0300 to xxxx0200 (eg from UHD to BD) and it played fine. I know that it may not work for some/many but I'd be happy to test all of my 60+ UHDs and report back.
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Chapters work fine for me. Started a random Blu-ray and chapters are in the OSD and in the context menu.
No plans for UHD BD. Its too risky to cause crashes etc.
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OK - Rechecked a few different BDs - About half have a Chapter Jump To menu, the others don't. Do you want logs or ?
On the UHD Menu - Don't Wuss out on me now! Lets give it a go :) before V24 goes public. I'm happy to test all of my UHDs and report back if you could produce a build that relaxes support. This way would would have a very good idea of how well it works or not on UHD BD.
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Ack - Here is the whole zip file including the crash dump.
Not sure if you have had a chance to look at this one but it V24.03 still crashes on 240 headers
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...on some of the BD's that do work with Chapter Support it not only works great and even triggers is a BD Pop Up Menu showing the location! Nice
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..also resume playback works surprisingly well on many discs
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The crash fix will need an update for libbluray, it appears. Will have to wait until I roll one of those out.
Chapters on BD-J discs should work better in the next version.
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Sounds good.
On the UHD ...I could try modding all my UHD headers and test if you want... but this would be a PITA, I'd would prefer if you could have a "relaxed" build to test but up to you.
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UHD Testing : I wrote a little parser to speed up the changing of the headers from 0300 to 0200.
Good News : 0 Crashes out of 24 UHD patched discs so far. It seems that there are about 3 different authoring progs out there by the look of feel of these discs. No issues with Menu, Pop Up Menu etc all working (and the good thing is all the pop up menus can be removed with the down arrow key).
As with BD testing, I did see some issues:
- 1 disc did not display a menu, just the background video (Pacific Rim)
- Several discs still got "stuck" with the opening black screen issues (will test on another PC).
- On some discs there were some visual corruption in the top right when transitioning from one Still to the Next (eg those little "warnings" screen shots at the beginning - both with RO and ROHQ).
In general how do you want me to test, debug, report etc? ... especially the Stuck/Black Screen ones? I've attached the log from HP Deathly Hallows Part 1 as an example
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...and here is the log from Pacific Rim that did not show a menu at all (just the background video/audio)
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Tested all 63 UHD Discs that I currently have and None crashed MC. That said about
- About 1/3rd had the black screen stall issue
- 1 had the no Menu Issue
- 3 had an unselectable OK Button (see below)
- Several had some video corruption on the transition between the static "warning" type notices at the beginning (don't care) in the top left quarter
3 discs have an identical opening segment (saying best with an HDR TV blah blah) with an OK button that can not be selected (MC is pausing/unpausing). Looks like MC does not know it is in a BD Menu at this point. Log attached.
Edit - I also think you only need to modify index.bdmv from 0300 to 0200 to get the BD Menu function working on UHD (not every other header).
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That's rather neat. I may have to try that.
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24.0.4 - Chapters : It's weird. I ran a few discs that did not have chapters but on a 2nd play they did. Others still refuse to show chapters. The only thing I can think of it has something to do with Bookmarks / Resume playback as I notice that on the ones that did start working the Bookmark was cleared between runs but.... no idea really.
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For those that want to test how BD Menus work on UHD BD at this stage, I've cleaned up my scripts. Just add them to the "Send To" menu in MC as follows
Name: UHD Menu Off
Program Path: ....whatever path you saved it in...\UHD_Menu_Off.exe
Parameters: "[Filename]" (eg this is the default)
Name: UHD Menu On
Program Path: ....whatever path you saved it in...\UHD_Menu_On.exe
Parameters: "[Filename]" (eg this is the default)
You can then select one or more UHD item(s) in MC then right click --> Send To--> Send To (external)--> UHD Menu On or UHD Menu OFF.
The attachment as both compiled exe and the AHK script so you can see what it does.... which is really just changing the header in index.bdmv from 0300 to 0200 and back again (0300 is used to identify a disc as UHD BD, and 0200 is for BD).
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The Disney WOW (HDTV Setup) BD disc menu does not work.
The intro screen comes up and plays the scrolling background image with sound but there is no menu shown. It takes about 9 seconds for this disc to display anything. The first screen then says "to expect delays of upto 2 or 3 minutes while the program is loads depending on BD player". Then it goes to the FBI warning screen, then to the Disney Home Entertainment ad screen. Lastly, the screen goes blank for about 9 seconds then the menu background (a moving landscape scene with music) comes up (but the actual menu text does not display). That is where the program stays (loops this menu screen).
The Spears & Munsil (HDTV Benchmark BD Edition) menus work properly.
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I don't have that Disney disc, and its positively too expensive to buy around here. Apparently out of production?
Edit:
I managed to find a copy and it works fine here. The menu shows up in the screen you said it should.
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It's great how you can switch between Title Playback and BD Menus but, the "Switch to Title Playback" option is missing on the MC OSD (add to Blu Ray Menu I guess?). That way if there is a "stalled disc" you can switch to Title Playback using the RC (you can already go the other way). Also it takes a fair bit of time to switch back and forth and you don't get any visual confirmation that MC is doing anything (perhaps an OSD msg saying Switching Menu or something like that would work).
Thanks
Nathan
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Disney WOW doesn't work for me. Sorry I'm not computer literate enough to be any of any use.
I captured a log. I see a lot of errors, but I don't know if they are relevant to the problem.
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Which version of Java do you have? Something seems to be going wrong there. But a future version will ship a known working Java version, so hopefully we can avoid such problems then.
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I have version 8 installed - at least I thought I did. There is a folder under Program Files>Java>jre1.8.0_161 but there are only a couple of files in it and a subdirectory.
When I type "Java -version" at the command prompt the command "java" is not recognized.
So I deleted the subfolder(s) under Java, and reinstalled Java, and this time it is working (version jre 1.8.0_161).
Now the Disney WOW disc menus work. Also the WOW starts playing very quickly now (no more 9 second delay) and the menus come up quickly.
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Sounds good. Also confirms that shipping our own working Java is probably a really good idea to avoid support issues.
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I think it is a good idea to ship a know version of Java as well. Mine is 1.8.0_151-b12 if it matters.
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The next build will now install its own private copy of Java. Its not registered with the OS in any way, and only MC knows it exists. Outside of being used for BD-J, it will not have any influence on the system, security or otherwise.
Unfortunately its pretty big, ~60mb or so, so the first time playing a Blu-ray you'll probably see the dependency installation screen. But I don't expect that version to be changing too often.
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Unfortunately its pretty big, ~60mb or so, so the first time playing a Blu-ray you'll probably see the dependency installation screen. But I don't expect that version to be changing too often.
The main concern with MC lazy downloading feature is that there's no progress, so we never know where we are. These days 60mb is loaded fast at least in my country.
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It would nice to have the option in the installer to eagerly add selected optional components
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I wasn't sure whether to log this as a bug or as a missing feature, I guess it's the latter given the early stage of development so I thought I'd post this here
if you have BD menus on and play a particle created from a BD then it launches the BD menu rather than simply playing the content defined by that particle
I think the preferred behaviour is not to treat such library items as a BD, just play them back as is irrespective of the BD menu option state.
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I think the preferred behaviour is not to treat such library items as a BD, just play them back as is irrespective of the BD menu option state.
Or set the BD menu to "Ask" and respond "No" for particles?
That situation seems a perfect reason to have the Ask ability for BD menus.
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I think particles should be excluded from menu playback, since they are specifically designed to target specific parts of the disc, which menu playback would flat out ignore. So I'll probably do that, somehow.
If you run a particle and then decide that you want the Menu anyway, there is always the option in the OSD to switch over.
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+1 Particles are Particles.
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V24.0.8 Quick Test (all good!):
- Particles play without menu
- Java downloads and work (it was 190mb for me - java64)
Could you also look at adding "Switch to Title Playback" to the MC OSD?
Thanks
Nathan
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Its 190mb unpacked, but much smaller compressed.
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No probs + it makes sense to do it as a plug in.
Is there anything else that needs testing? Do you want a list of discs that have issues, logs etc?
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Reporting discs with issues never hurts, with logs if possible. Not sure how much we'll be able to do about all the things, but better knowing than not. No manually enabled UHD BD-J discs though!
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8) on the UHD.
I'll work through the normal BD and generate a list of any with initial playback issues are first. Then grab logs for any you want.
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Quick test over the first 80 BDs but it gives a good overview. All I really tested was to see if playback of the main movie would start.
Main issues were with these titles:
- American Beauty: Freeze at end of opening 10 sec splash screen (MC Hang)
- 71: Freeze on start
- The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert: Freeze on start
- 8 Mile: Freeze post menu (and warnings)
- 21 Jump Street: MC Hangs when BD Menu asks to resume and you select No
Also had No Chapters / Jump to Menu on 16 titles.
Let me know which ones you want logs for.
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25. Changed: Blu-ray Menu Playback is disabled when playing a Particle (either Title or Playback Range based Particle).
This works if BD Menu is set to "Ask". If BD Menu is set to "On" then particles fail to play with a "Something went wrong with playback" error.
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- American Beauty: Freeze at end of opening 10 sec splash screen (MC Hang)
- 21 Jump Street: MC Hangs when BD Menu asks to resume and you select No
I may have different releases of those discs, but at least those play fine. Does that happen everytime?
With Hang do you mean that MC itself totally dies and needs to be killed? If so, please get it into that state and open the task manager, and in the Details listing right-click the process and use "Create dump file". Dumps created that way can be quite large, but usually compress well.
This works if BD Menu is set to "Ask". If BD Menu is set to "On" then particles fail to play with a "Something went wrong with playback" error.
I can't reproduce that, and I honestly don't see how that would ever happen. At worst it should play the menu when it shouldn't.
Tried Time and Title particles, and one that does both.
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Here is the log (see previous) for the 21 Jump Street MC Hang:
- Play BD (starts playing fine but at the "resume" point)
- BD Menu pops up asking if you want to resume
- Say No
- Playback Stops but Time code continues in the top UI
- Press Stop etc and MC Hangs (needs to be forced closed)
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I'll grab the dump file and test the others / report back - got to go out for a bit.
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I can't reproduce that, and I honestly don't see how that would ever happen. At worst it should play the menu when it shouldn't.
Tried Time and Title particles, and one that does both.
Here is a log showing it playing with ASK and failing with ON. It's a Chapter Based BD Particle from a Music BD.
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Here is the log (see previous) for the 21 Jump Street MC Hang:
- Play BD (starts playing fine but at the "resume" point)
- BD Menu pops up asking if you want to resume
- Say No
- Playback Stops but Time code continues in the top UI
- Press Stop etc and MC Hangs (needs to be forced closed)
Here is a Dump File - https://jmone.org/nextcloud/index.php/s/9rAksbJxPxKSRLQ (148MB)
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Re: American Beauty. Retested, and This one now just stalls with a black screen and 0:00 - Live like others but did not hang MC. Last time it actually played the intro then it hung MC. No idea why it is different that time.
Out of interest do you get many stall with the "0:00 - Live / Black screen" from your collection?
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12. NEW: Java for Blu-ray Menu playback is downloaded and installed automatically like other playback dependencies.
Updated to 24.0.9 on a HTPC and when playing a BD it downloaded the Java Runtime but then came up with an error saying I needed to install Java. Deleted the Java folder in the Plug-In folder but it was a rinse and repeat. Also tried the same with the HTPC with a local library, but same error so it is not a Library Server Client thing. Log attached (it will show a HDMV playing then a Java failing).
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Updated to 24.0.9 on a HTPC and when playing a BD it downloaded the Java Runtime but then came up with an error saying I needed to install Java. Deleted the Java folder in the Plug-In folder but it was a rinse and repeat. Also tried the same with the HTPC with a local library, but same error so it is not a Library Server Client thing. Log attached (it will show a HDMV playing then a Java failing).
I tried both 64-bit and 32-bit versions, and in both cases Java installed and worked fine. Not running into AV issues or anything, are we?
Its not trying to re-download Java everytime you launch a BD, right? Just fails at loading it?
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One thought, apparently the JVM requires the 2010 C runtime, so maybe we need to include that.
Actually it appears its present, but not in the right folder? Silly Java.
Can you try this?
- Go to: C:\Users\...\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 24\Plugins\java|java64\bin\
- Find msvcr100.dll
- Copy it to the "client" or "server" sub-folder in that same directory (where jvm.dll lives) (client on 32-bit, server on 64-bit)
See if that helps? If it does, may need to re-package the zip with that in place.
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Win64 on the HTPC. 64-Bit java downloaded by MC (and only once, in my testing I deleted the Java Folder to re-download). Only AV is MS Windows itself. Copying msvcr100.dll to the server folder did not help.
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Can you confirm that msvcr100.dll does not actually exist in C:\Windows\System32? Don't want to be chasing my tail here.
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No msvcr100.dll but there is a msvcr100_clr0400.dll in C:\Windows\System32
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On the PC that does work there is a C:\Windows\System32\msvcr100.dll dated 11/06/2011
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Bingo! If I copy msvcr100.dll to the C:\Windows\System32 folder it works
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Want to avoid having to do that, don't we.
So hopefully the last thing
- Get rid of the copy in System32 again, as well as the one you possibly copied around in the java folder (or just delete it and let MC download a fresh java)
- Get this libbluray replacement (64-bit only): https://files.1f0.de/tmp/jvm-crt/x64/libbluray-2.dll and put it into the plugin folder
See if stuff works? Since its like 11pm for you, I'll just go enjoy my saturday now and come back later. If it works for you as well, I'll roll a new libbluray package next week.
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All good. Tested on the two PCs. Have fun, I'm off to Cairns for the week (Hope the cyclone has left something behind to enjoy)!
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Main issues were with these titles:
- American Beauty: Freeze at end of opening 10 sec splash screen (MC Hang)
- 71: Freeze on start
- The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert: Freeze on start
- 8 Mile: Freeze post menu (and warnings)
I managed to get ahold of those listed above, and only one shows any issues (The Adventures of Priscilla, it shows a message about updating my Blu-ray player and then never progresses further without any indication in the log)
I don't know if EU releases are just generally "better" or what, but all of the others just play fine. Note that I do always test straight from the optical disc.
Or perhaps there is a region check on some of your discs, which is failing? libbluray has a region setting, but so far it didn't seem to impact anything, so I didn't expose it.
You would think the disc would yell at you like DVDs used to, instead of silently failing.
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Thanks for the cross test. I'll also recheck when I'm back. Is there anything in the logs to look for or any other way to work out what is up with these discs?
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Rechecked those 4, no change for me - log attached.
Edit - Checked 8 Mile and '71 off the disc as well to see if it is different (and it is not, same issues). To me they both look like Region B EU releases.
Edit 2 - I know that '71 was working (on at least my main PC) when we first did testing as I attached logs for missing Menu Items under MadVR. I also checked C:\Users\natha\AppData\Local\Temp\libbluray-bdj-cache and there are no files to delete. No idea why it is being difficult for me but I'm betting it is something to do with my setup.
Edit 3 - I can see files being written to C:\Users\natha\AppData\Local\Temp\libbluray-bdj-cache but they are removed when pressing STOP.
Edit 4 - When the freese happens you can not use the Theaterview OSD (up arrow etc does nothing), it just remains a black screen... but the right click menu works (eg you can start title playback).
Edit 5 - I don't know if this helps but here is a Zip (https://jmone.org/nextcloud/index.php/s/6kzC9XKPrE7SHyw) of the libbluray-bdj-cache for '71
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Did the 21 Jump Street Dump show anything?
Also - thanks for the other changes
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I've found something. I'll need to test more but if there are values in "Playback Info" like "(1:2)(7:Streams)(6:0,4,23)(9:Subtitles)(0:)" then clearing them seems to make more discs play without issues. '71 and 8 Mile now work. I "think" also have a bookmark confuses some discs. I'll clear both values and retest a bunch.
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Bookmarks should be ignored on Menu playback already, maybe I need to make it ignore the others as well? Due to all the different streams between logos, trailers, menu and the main movie, its hard/impossible to apply such things anyway.
Although I'm slightly confused how that broke playback, considering it doesn't even support controlling streams from the outside. Well something to check on next week.
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Yeah no rush. Just back at home and did some testing before I have to go away again for work. Just did a quick test on 100 Discs (all rips). I cleared all the Book Marks and Playback Info.
- About 1/3rd have no "Chapters / Jump To Menu"
- 2 Disc Freeze & Make MC Unresponsive : American Beauty, and Priscilla Queen of the Desert
- 1 Disc says "Mismatch Between disc and player region codes. See Disc packaging for details" : The Bank Job
While clearing Playback Info / Book Marks seems to have fixed my discs that Stall on Black Screen (well many UHD still do this), I still get a couple that ask if I want to resume playback from the last played (though they start from the begining). These are "Beauty and the Beast" and "Big Hero 6".
I'll grab dumps for American Beauty, and Priscilla Queen of the Desert.
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Arggg - American Beauty is now playing fine but Priscilla can still crash MC. Crash Dump Here (https://jmone.org/nextcloud/index.php/s/9rAksbJxPxKSRLQ) and MC logs attached.
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This is cool. Sidecar subs still work :) and are selectable by the MC OSD! I've got a couple of non-english films I've had to add a sidecar english sub and figured it would only work in title mode but it still works in BD Menu mode. These subs are also "remembered" between plays (but I guess that may change if Hendrik ignores the stream selection in the playback field).
One Odd thing however is if you switch to Title Playback, all the subs are listed Twice (see pic).
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It also raises an older discussion on the ability to manually tag (in Playback Info?) if you want a disc to start playback in Menu or Title mode.
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I've found something. I'll need to test more but if there are values in "Playback Info" like "(1:2)(7:Streams)(6:0,4,23)(9:Subtitles)(0:)" then clearing them seems to make more discs play without issues. '71 and 8 Mile now work. I "think" also have a bookmark confuses some discs. I'll clear both values and retest a bunch.
I've been looking into this, and I still have no idea how the presence of this alone would ever cause any issues. It just silently ignores them when the source filter doesn't expose the stream selection interface, and the BD source does not.
I've also tried to just set it on some discs and nothing happens.
Can you confirm that re-adding this causes the issues to return? Or maybe its the bookmark still, for some reason?
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I'm wrong. But I don't know what the issue is..... Just tried playing '71 and 8 Mile since last nights test ... and both stalled (with no values in Bookmark and Playback Info). Tried adding stuff / removing it from these fields did not help either. Shutting down MC (and Server), restarted MC then both played fine, I could swap between Menu and Title Playback over and over without issues regardless if I had values in Bookmark and Playback Info.
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Rebooted my PC and now '71 and 8 Mile Freese again but the others play....
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Shall I open you the window, or do you prefer throwing through it closed for dramatic effect?
Unfortunately I have no idea whats going on with those discs and since I really cannot reproduce any of that on any disc I have, also no point to start debugging at.
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Is profanity allowed on the Beta Board?
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I'm stumped..... Tried removing progs, updating and resetting BIOS, updating nVidia Drivers, DrivePool drivers, rebooting, removing MC Plugins and re-downloading, trying differing Audio and Video Settings, and these two just stall.
Apart from C:\Users\natha\AppData\Local\Temp\libbluray-bdj-cache, is there any other files being written or cached when BD Menus are being played?
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There is some permanent storage in AppData\Roaming\bluray, its where discs store settings like your playback position for resuming etc.
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thanks - clearing that did not help (but at least I know where the resume stuff comes from on some discs).
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I don't get it. When I play '71 as an example it looks as attached. You can right click and bring up the MC Menu etc just fine, but the MC OSD will not appear when you press an Up Arrow. The madVR stats update but it's like nothing is being decoded/rendered etc.
When are you next in Oz? I owe you a drink anyway, how is Friday for you? :)
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Heck! Just deleted the contents of C:\Users\natha\AppData\Roaming\bluray again and both '71 and 8 Mile Started working.
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Played a bunch in a row with '71 after each one. All file till "13 Hours: The Secret Soldiers of Benghazi" which Hung MC (forced close), and after that '71 would stall on playback (but 13 Hours: The Secret Soldiers of Benghazi would then play fine).
Back to square 1 : '71 and 8 Mile both stall again. Rebooting and Deleting C:\Users\natha\AppData\Roaming\bluray is making no difference.
Does Java cache stuff somewhere?
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One of my guesses is that part of the problem is that you ripped all your discs without the CERTIFICATE folder, because that folder is used to find the disc id, which in turn is used to determine the sub-path in those storage folders.
If the id cannot be determined, then its set to some default, which is the same for every disc - and maybe that causes conflicts?
I could try to disable permanent storage, and see if that makes it behave more predictably for you, but its not ideal to do that.
I don't actually know where exactly the MC Blu-ray ripping stuff is, maybe I should find it and include the CERTIFICATE folder.
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Is profanity allowed on the Beta Board?
We'll have to send you a bar of soap so your wife can wash your mouth out with it.
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MC ripping has never copied the Certificate folder, only the contents of the BDMV Folder and the AnyDVD disc.inf file if that exists. I just tried playing '71 of the original disc and it stalled. I then copied the Certificate and ANY! (AnyDVD) to the folder with the rip and now both '71 and 8 Mile play fine. Is it possible that without the Certificate folder there is some conflict as you play various disc???
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FYI - Just checked the 8 Mile rip and it has the Certificate folder (must have ripped that one with AnyDVD not MC).
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We'll have to send you a bar of soap so your wife can wash your mouth out with it.
Mmm what flavour?
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Chocolate.
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That's me done for the next few days. I'll have more of a play with Certificate folders when I'm back.
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As I think about this, should there be a change in MC's ripper to also copy the Certificate Folder? If it is needed I guess I'll mount and copy this folder manually for all my rips (it will be a PITA for 1,000 odd discs but would not be to bad as these folders are not that big).
Thanks
Nathan
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Already done for the next version, it'll now copy the entire disc, just in case. Everything next to the BDMV folder is tiny anyway, so no harm in preserving all of it.
I'm not 100% convinced that this is the real cause however, the behavior you're seeing is too erratic to make sense.
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Thanks.... And erratic sums it up but there must be a pattern, I just need to find it
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Thanks.... And erratic sums it up but there must be a pattern, I just need to find it
is it worth adding a list of discs confirmed to work (to this thread, to the wiki?) for reference purposes? might be useful in the initial period of this feature being publicly available
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I don't like that. There are several versions of every movie which can be differently authored, and such a list quickly grows stale and may deter someone from even trying if his movie isn't on the list.
The number of discs that don't work should hopefully be reasonably low.
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I don't like that. There are several versions of every movie which can be differently authored, and such a list quickly grows stale and may deter someone from even trying if his movie isn't on the list.
The number of discs that don't work should hopefully be reasonably low.
fair enough, is it worth logging the ones that are known not to work? with appropriate disclaimers about different versions of discs and so on?
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I still need to get back to testing, as well. I reinstalled windows 10 recently and have not had a chance to test recent builds. I did have a couple discs back when I first tested it that didn't work right so I'll retest them soon and post my results here.
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FYI - I've started keeping notes of what issues I'm seeing with what discs as it was driving me nuts (and still is). Even in my case, it's only about 2% with playback issues and I think I've got some bizare edge case .... A larger % (about 1/3rd) don't have Jump To/Chatpers exposed. About 1/3rd of UHD stall (but these are not officially supported anyway). If I can just work out what is causing the stall on some discs.... some of the time....
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Back to testing. '71 played fine when I was away. Got back after a few days and '71 stills plays fine. Updated the version of MC to 24.0.11 and '71 now stalls. No idea why.
Edit - here is the log. This may be different to my previous logs as I've now added the Certificate folder to the rip. I notice a couple of things:
Double Backslash in the JRE path: 0004266: 11876: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: libbluray/bdj/bdj.c:332: Opening C:\Users\natha\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 24\Plugins\java64\\jre\bin\server\jvm
Odd Forward Slash in the black.png path: 0005703: 11956: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: java.awt.BDToolkit:0: ERROR: resource C:\Users\natha\AppData\Local\Temp\libbluray-bdj-cache\251153893997802\mount\00000\null\res/BLACK/Black.png does not exist but Black.png is in : C:\Users\natha\AppData\Local\Temp\libbluray-bdj-cache\251153893997802\VFSCache\BDMV\JAR\00001\res\BLACK
When it starts playing I'll grab the log and do a compare to see what looks different.
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...also (I don't think it matters) but I did a compare between my old '71 rip and original disc and noticed that MC did also not rip empty folder (eg in this case BDMV\AUXDATA and BDMV\Meta\ES and BDMV\META\TN)
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Ok - Got '71 to work. Played it and it was stalled but did a right click --> BD Menu (did nothing) --> Stop --> Return to MC --> Play again and it worked. Log attached. I'll compare the two logs after dinner.
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Hm yeah that missing file seems to be somehow related. In the working case it figured out where it is, in the non-working case it didn't.
ie.
CBDNavDemux::BDLog: org.videolan.VFSCache:0: INFO: using cached C:\Users\natha\AppData\Local\Temp\libbluray-bdj-cache\253379073798310\VFSCache\BDMV\JAR\00001\res\BLACK\Black.png
CBDNavDemux::BDLog: java.io.BDFileSystem:0: INFO: resolve(f): using cached C:\Users\natha\AppData\Local\Temp\libbluray-bdj-cache\253379073798310\VFSCache\BDMV\JAR\00001\res\BLACK\Black.png (\\MAIN\Media\Discs\'71\BDMV\JAR\00001\res\BLACK\Black.png)
vs.
CBDNavDemux::BDLog: java.io.BDFileSystem:0: INFO: resolve relative file null\res\BLACK\Black.png
CBDNavDemux::BDLog: java.awt.BDToolkit:0: ERROR: resource C:\Users\natha\AppData\Local\Temp\libbluray-bdj-cache\251153893997802\mount\00000\null\res/BLACK/Black.png does not exist
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Yeah that is what I'm reading as well from the logs.
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Upgraded again and '71 broke. Log has \mount\00000\null\res/BLACK/Black.png does not exist again. Lets see if I can get it to play again.
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The big difference is the path:
\\MAIN\Media\Discs\'71\BDMV\JAR\00001\res\BLACK\Black.png
null\res\BLACK\Black.png
This is whats passed to the file loading function. In one case it knows where the disc is, in the other case that info is "null" and everything fails. Unfortunately I don't know where this string is being constructed, and without being able to reproduce it here, its going to be iffy.
I don't suppose you feel like uploading your copy of the disc, just to make sure? Perhaps without the big main movie m2ts, that should not be needed to get to the menu, afterall.
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Will post a link to the full '71 rip in a zip minus the M2TS files
Also with the region check, The Bank Job now plays without error but Alone In Berlin now complains with "This disc has been coded for Region B only and will not play in this machine...." in V23.0.13
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Also with the region check, The Bank Job now plays without error but Alone In Berlin now complains with "This disc has been coded for Region B only and will not play in this machine...." in V23.0.13
And its set to Region B, I assume?
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Sorry - what is set to region B?
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Here is the '71 Structure (https://jmone.org/nextcloud/index.php/s/jPxPAPcEA4LxRBE) minus the M2TS files. Let me know if you need any of these. Also attached is the Pic of the M2TS files that are missing.
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The region setting, of course. Australia is Region B, so you should set it to that. :p Defaults to A i think, which is the Americas.
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Sorry - what is set to region B?
Sorry - just found the setting.....
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OK - The setting works :) in that when set to Region B then Bank Job fails, and when set to Region A then Alone In Berlin fails. I'll pull these discs and have a look at what they say.
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OK - My original disc of the Bank Job is US hence the fail. AnyDVD lets you change the region and it plays. Just checking now what files are modified so I can update my rip and then see if that is "good" with a region B setting in MC. I've never modified the region in AnyDVD before.
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Good stuff. Mounted the Original Disc of Bank Job and got AnyDVD to make it a "Region B" disc. Then did a file compare to my rip and it updated a bunch of the files (non m2ts) and it now plays with MC set to Region B !!! I'll make a note in the MC24 thread when it goes live on the main board.
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Bit more testing on the Region. Looks like the key file is the 00000.jar file and if in AnyDVD you select "Remove Blu-ray Region Code" / "Automatic" you are good to go. Looks like I may have some rips where that was unchecked. It probably does not matter much as the vast bulk of my discs are Region B anyway, but it is a good tip to have this feature in AnyDVD checked to remove any issues with region locking when ripping. There is also a "Country Code" removal option in AnyDVD as well but it seems to be only related to "... specific US Anime discs try to enforce the country code in this way." In testing it also changes the 00000.jar file but made no difference to playback. Probably best to check both.
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FYI - I've updated the OP on the BD thread in the MC24 forum on region codes. https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,114628.msg792717.html#msg792717
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I've been pouring over the Java code for a couple hours, and one thing I found is that BD Java code (ie. the Applets on the disc) is written for a really old version of Java (basically Java 1.4, we were using Java 8 and Java 10 just came out)
So I played a hunch and just tried using an older version of Java, since there is a bunch of specific changes for Java 8 in the code, and I figured, maybe thats not complete yet.
So give this a try:
- Download: https://files.1f0.de/tmp/java7.zip (64-bit version)
- Delete the contents of %APPDATA%\J River\Media Center 24\Plugins\java64
- Unzip the zip above right into that directory
See if stuff changes? I got some weird issues on the disc there, but it all went away when I changed the version.
Its not the ideal solution, but what can you do when the Java code on the discs themselves seems to be uncooperative.
I am also trying to reach out to the libbluray devs if they know about this particular problem, as I could pinpoint where exactly it breaks down pretty well already (but its such a fundamental problem that fixing it seems unattainable for me right now).
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Testing now. '71 worked out of the box. Will run through a bunch of discs and see how they go. I guess it kind of makes sense that there would be a preferred Java Version that all players would be encouraged to use as it is not as if all those HW players would get FW updates all that often and they need to work with BD-J Discs that are up to 10 years old.
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I expect that licensed BD players have a different sort of Java implementation, and not using desktop Java. Possibly something like J2ME (ie. Java Micro Edition, for embedded systems).
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Go see what PowerDVD embeds. :D
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Mostly good news!
- '71 and 8 Mile now work reliably
- The Two that where Hanging MC that I sent Dumps for no longer Hang MC (American Beauty - Freeze at end of the post menu 10 sec splash screen ; and The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert - Freeze at end of opening 7 sec splash screen) but they can still stall playback at these points. I'm doing some more testing on these as I did get both working with different Region Code setting in AnyDVD off the original disc. Let me know if you want the structures for these.
- Also Tested a bunch of others for playback (not menu features etc) and they were fine
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I expect that licensed BD players have a different sort of Java implementation, and not using desktop Java. Possibly something like J2ME (ie. Java Micro Edition, for embedded systems).
BD-J is Java ME based afaik
I wonder what that means for the future support of this feature without a Java ME runtime environment given the way Oracle are removing public downloads of older JDKs and accelerating the release schedule (the next LTS release after Java8 is Java11, currently aimed at Sept)? A quick google suggests there is a Java ME SDK though it only talks about creating stubs and providing an emulation environment.
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Its not like we ever need to really update Java, at least for BD-J, once we find a good version. And users don't need to worry about finding downloads, since we ship that.
Libbluray supports running against Java ME as well, however finding a runtime environment for that is even harder. There is a Java ME 8 which is relatively recent, but it already requires signing up with Oracle to even download it.
I'll upload the new Java packages in the morning, hopefully that makes playback generally more reliable - and hopefully someone planned to make a new build tomorrow for public testing, so we don't get those problems reported there when they are already fixed,
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OK - Got 2 Logs for American Beauty. 1st play worked. 2nd play stalled (no changes between the two plays).
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There is nothing obvious in those logs. It seems to be working fine for a while and then in the one log it just stops doing its thing, while the other log switches to a different title. I'll probably add some more logging, maybe there is something unexpected going on.
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And that is what I see during playback. I get the
- initial splash screen showing disc loading
- Studio Splash
- Menu appears
- Select Play
- Age Rating warning splash screen and then it will either stall at the end or switch to playing the main title... at random.
Is your version of Priscilla working better with this version of Java?
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...also happy to test various versions of JRE is you can point me to the ones you wanted tested.
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I am also trying to reach out to the libbluray devs ....
They should also know what versions of JRE are "best" to use.
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FYI- I did try downloading, extracting in the Java64 folder various Java versions but none worked (either MC "disappeared" on very early versions or I got a "something went wrong with playback" on later ones) so I gave up. I was thinking however that there will be a newer version of Java being used by UHD Players that works with traditional BD-J but I don't know what it would be. I had a dig around PDVD but they seem to use their own code with only some of the std jar files.
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The only other version that might possibly work is Java6, but its probably not "better", since the particular flaw I was seeing is fixed by using Java7 already. 7 was largely compatible with 6 anyway, only with 8 they started breaking things (and 9 and above doesn't work with libbluray at all anymore as it currently stands)
Like mentioned above, actual (UHD) BD players probably use a specialized Java licensed directly from the AACS LA, and not anything we have access to.
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That test version is "better" in my testing as less discs have issues . '71 and 8-Mile now just work. American Beauty works half the time. This has me stumped and I can change nothing between plays but sometimes it stall and sometime it does not. At least Priscilla is more reliable in that it rarely plays (but sometimes does). Having/Not Having the Certificate folder seems to make little difference so far (or playing from Disc vs Rip) in the outcome.
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and 9 and above doesn't work with libbluray at all anymore as it currently stands
do you know if that is a libbluray issue (i.e. potentially fixable) or down to the bd-j code?
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I wouldn't hold my breath on that getting fixed anytime soon, there is major conflicts on how Libbluray works and what Java9 made impossible (mostly related to bootstrap class loading), but its also not something to really worry about. As mentioned above, if you have a known working version.. why wonder what might be. :)
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FYI.. I've retested all my BD starting "B" (65 of them) and only 1 showed a stall issue.... but it was a Region A disc rip. With updated AnyDVD to remove Region Encoding it is all good (from the ODD - re-ripping now to be sure). So "some" discs with a region mismatch may stall rather than display a warning.
The good news is that so far I've just 2 discs that stall :) out of 133 retested so far
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Tested my "C" discs (another 39). All good.
Q: Many discs don't have a Chapters / Jump To Menu exposed. They seem to be a sub set of BD-J discs. Any ideas on this one?
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Chapters should hopefully be better in the next build.
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;D Thanks on the Chapters - I'll stop testing now!
Did another 38 discs (the "D") All good, but I've got a new found respect for HDMV discs. These just work nicely and are responsive. That test version of Java is good.
Couple of other comments:
- If you "rush" some discs (by ffw etc) then you can hang MC or the menu is not drawn (but the background plays). If you let them play they are fine.
- Some discs "claim" they have been played before and and if you want to resume but start from the beginning. I'm wondering if it is due to the lack of the Certificate folder confusing the JRE what disc has been played prior.
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I totally agree on the HDMV discs, I see no huge value-gained from BD-J discs and they just work rather clunky.
- If you "rush" some discs (by ffw etc) then you can hang MC or the menu is not drawn (but the background plays). If you let them play they are fine.
I was surprised that works as good as it does anyway. Some of those things are probably not meant to be skipped. I could enforce the disc user operations mask and disallow seeking on many of those, but that might not be nice.
- Some discs "claim" they have been played before and and if you want to resume but start from the beginning. I'm wondering if it is due to the lack of the Certificate folder confusing the JRE what disc has been played prior.
Quite possible.
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;D Thanks on the Chapters - I'll stop testing now!
You get our Nerd of the Month award for all the testing you've done. It was a big help. Thanks.
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I totally agree on the HDMV discs, I see no huge value-gained from BD-J discs and they just work rather clunky.
+1 : the BD-J Discs are slow and to me look less professional. I see all the UHD Discs I have use BD-J however so I guess HDMV is no longer.
I was surprised that works as good as it does anyway. Some of those things are probably not meant to be skipped. I could enforce the disc user operations mask and disallow seeking on many of those, but that might not be nice.
I'd suggest not enforcing it but it is the only way I've got MC itself to hang so far. Lets see how many complain.
Quite possible.
I just added the Certificate folder to the rip that was showing this and it now works as expected. Only a 1 disc test however.
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You get our Nerd of the Month award for all the testing you've done. It was a big help. Thanks.
Actually Hendrik gets not only "Nerd of the Month" for making this all work but also "Saint of the Month" for putting up with all the dead ends, dumb ideas and proposed (but wrong) solutions trying to debug this stuff.
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Agreed. Thanks, Hendrik. A round of applause.
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It is amazing how well it all actually works with 0 Public Documentation. There are some clever people out there. What I really like is it is not just a vanilla implementation of libbluray but how well it has been integrated with MC's existing GUI, RC and feature set. It all just makes sense.
Bizarrely, Even 2/3rds of my UHD BD work! Hendrik, On that note are you in contact/work with with the libbluray devs (and if so do you know what their UHD BD Menu plans are)?
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Hendrik, On that note are you in contact/work with with the libbluray devs (and if so do you know what their UHD BD Menu plans are)?
Its mostly just one guy, and he is not that active lately. So not really anything to know right now. Once stuff quiets down I might look into UHD BD myself - later.
Regarding "public documentation", i have the Blu-ray specification for the BD-J profile from a confidential source (already made use of that back when 3DBD support was being added), and I'm sure they do as well. But I don't have UHD.
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Nice! I'll retest all my UHD after the next update but most play and none crash MC.
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Retested a few dozen discs and Jump To / Chapters is working perfectly now on all of them (including UHD).
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It basically failed if the first title on the disc didn't have any chapters, because the chapter controller was then never created. So it was pretty easy to fix, just always create it! :)
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Don't you love the easy ones. Beats hours of "reading through hours of Java code" to find a bug!
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Finished testing 65 UHD Discs on my Main PC (will need to test on my 4K HTPC Setup):
- 38 Play without any issue
- 0 Crash MC
- 1 Does not display the menu items
- 3 Have a Warning that I'm not connected to a 4K TV with an OK Button you can not press
- 23 Stall just after playback commences on a Black Screen. These are the interesting ones. They all seem to start with a 1920x1080 res and either stall immediately or just after a splash screen saying it is a 4K disc. All stall just displaying a 1920x1080 Black Screen.
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I only have like 15 UHD BDs or so (not counting some movies in sets that are probably all identically mastered), but I didn't really bother testing yet.
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Spot tested on a 4K HTPC but same issues.
FYI - Here is a link to my list of BD Testing (https://jmone.org/nextcloud/index.php/s/ricyTrDR3YGbiSx) (all UHD and BD up to and including "D"). List the discs with error + all my UHD (if the Notes are blank then they work). If the UHD can get past the opening few seconds then they work like a charm, but something stops 1/3rd of them right at the start.
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I only have like 15 UHD BDs or so (not counting some movies in sets that are probably all identically mastered), but I didn't really bother testing yet.
No Probs - Could be an easy fix .... or not :)
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Got an odd one - Zambezia (kids movie) on BD. The Menu Items appear early (during the Copyright Warning). If you hit the Enter button at this stage the disc plays fine. If you wait till the Background changes to the Menu and then hit Enter the disc plays BUT the menu items remain drawn on the screen.
You will see in the log 2 plays:
1st - play during the Copyright Warning (and menu items goes away)
2nd - play after the menu background has appears (and the menu items stay drawn)
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Early days but so far no reports of issues. Looking pretty solid.
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I think I've figured out how to get those UHD that stall to word! On the ones that stall there is an extra file in the JAR folder called "onQClient.cfg" that contains info as follows:
app.playlist-meta.file=file:///vfs/BDMV/JAR/00002/playlists.xml
debug.enableConsole=false
debug.showFatal=false
debug.showWatermark=false
log.default.appenders=none
If I rename this file the UHD Plays. I've so far only tested a half dozen or so UHD that used to stall and they all now play. I've got to go out and I'll retest more later.
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Nice work!
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I think I've figured out how to get those UHD that stall to word! On the ones that stall there is an extra file in the JAR folder called "onQClient.cfg" that contains info as follows:
app.playlist-meta.file=file:///vfs/BDMV/JAR/00002/playlists.xml
debug.enableConsole=false
debug.showFatal=false
debug.showWatermark=false
log.default.appenders=none
If I rename this file the UHD Plays. I've so far only tested a half dozen or so UHD that used to stall and they all now play. I've got to go out and I'll retest more later.
So I tested all the discs that were stalling and the results are good with most now playing (these all seem to be Sony Authored Discs). The key bit that seems to be giving libbluray a hard time in the onQClient.cfg file is the line referencing "app.playlist-meta.file=file:///vfs/BDMV/JAR/00002/playlists.xml"
I had 23 UHD Discs that would freeze and they now all play
So that now means I have 70 UHD Discs (got a new one):
- 0 Crash MC
- 1 Does not display the menu items (Pacific Rim)
- 1 Disc Stalls just prior to the Menu on a Black Screen (Planet Earth Disc 1, but Disc 2 Plays fine) Fixed (bad rip)
- 3 Discs Stall just after playback commences on a Black Screen (Westworld Season 1, 2, 3) Fixed (missing certificate folder)
- 3 Have a Warning that I’m not connected to a 4K TV with an OK Button you can not press (Creed, Mad Max Fury Road, and Man of Steel)
- 66 Discs play (though sometimes there may be artefacts as between splash screens, or a menu item needs to be selected twice for it to then disappear).
I've updated my little util to also rename the cfg file to make it easier to test and will update the MC24 UHD Post on this.
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Playing a bit with the 3 discs that have the unselectable OK button, it seems that MC does not know it is a menu (Enter just brings up the MC OSD Pause/Play).
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Let me know if you want any testing or logs as I've got some time over the next day but then out for work for a few days.
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Re-Ripping American Beauty fixed that disc....for one play then it stalled again...3rd time it plays - no idea!
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Hi Hendrik - I can confirm that the original Star Wars trilogy displays the BD Chapter Menu when playback hits chapter marks. Do you want logs, copy of the structure etc?
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I have 1-6 in a Blu-ray set, will give my copies of 4-6 a try first to see if they also do it.
Edit:
Yeah mine does that as well.
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;D It kinda looks cute but it should probably not do that!
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Also narrowed down the issue on the UHD that stall (Tested on 3 UHD so far) for discs that have a "onQClient" / "playlist.xml" file in the JAR folder. It seems to be an issue with the parsing the XML.
If I just remove aspect="16:9 display" and it only needs to be from the first playlist entry (regardless of what it references) then these discs don't stall and playback commences. Weird.
Here is a sample of the XML from Argo (may discs have many more entries)
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<playlist-metadata>
<disc name="UHD-110377 Argo WS" id="88000000000000000000000000110377" />
<playlist name="Logo" id="00000" presentation="2D" dynamic_range="HDR" width="3840" height="2160" aspect="16:9 display" framerate="23976" duration_ms="10010" aud="eng" angles="1" chapters="3603600" />
<playlist name="WRN_AntiPiracy" id="00005" presentation="2D" dynamic_range="HDR" width="3840" height="2160" aspect="16:9 display" framerate="23976" duration_ms="9009" angles="1" chapters="3603600" />
<playlist name="WRN_GER_FSK" id="00006" presentation="2D" dynamic_range="HDR" width="3840" height="2160" aspect="16:9 display" framerate="23976" duration_ms="7007" angles="1" chapters="3603600" />
<playlist name="WRN_JPN" id="00007" presentation="2D" dynamic_range="HDR" width="3840" height="2160" aspect="16:9 display" framerate="23976" duration_ms="17059" angles="1" chapters="3603600,3620408" />
<playlist name="WRN_Interpol" id="00008" presentation="2D" dynamic_range="HDR" width="3840" height="2160" aspect="16:9 display" framerate="23976" duration_ms="23273" angles="1" chapters="3603600,3626623" />
<playlist name="WRN_Europe" id="00009" presentation="2D" dynamic_range="HDR" width="3840" height="2160" aspect="16:9 display" framerate="23976" duration_ms="341341" angles="1" chapters="3603600,3613610,3623620,3633630,3643640,3653650,3663660,3673670,3683680,3693690,3703700,3713710,3723720,3733730,3743740,3753750,3763760,3773770,3783780,3793790,3803800,3813810,3823820,3833830,3843840,3853850,3863860,3873870,3883880,3893890,3903900,3913910,3923920,3933930,3944691" />
<playlist name="WRN_LAM" id="00010" presentation="2D" dynamic_range="HDR" width="3840" height="2160" aspect="16:9 display" framerate="23976" duration_ms="31031" angles="1" chapters="3603600,3613610,3623620,3634381" />
<playlist name="WRN_Asia" id="00011" presentation="2D" dynamic_range="HDR" width="3840" height="2160" aspect="16:9 display" framerate="23976" duration_ms="51051" angles="1" chapters="3603600,3613610,3623620,3633630,3643640,3654401" />
<playlist name="WRN_FrenchVisa" id="00013" presentation="2D" dynamic_range="HDR" width="3840" height="2160" aspect="16:9 display" framerate="23976" duration_ms="6006" angles="1" chapters="3603600,3609356" />
<playlist name="WRN_MPAA_CARD" id="00017" presentation="2D" dynamic_range="HDR" width="3840" height="2160" aspect="16:9 display" framerate="23976" duration_ms="8008" angles="1" chapters="3603600,3611358" />
<playlist name="NONE_4K_Environment" id="00024" presentation="2D" dynamic_range="SDR" width="1920" height="1080" aspect="16:9 display" framerate="23976" duration_ms="6006" angles="1" chapters="3603600" />
<playlist name="DUB_Credit_FRE" id="00027" presentation="2D" dynamic_range="HDR" width="3840" height="2160" aspect="16:9 display" framerate="23976" duration_ms="11011" angles="1" chapters="3603600,3614361" />
<playlist name="LANG_SELECT_BG" id="00032" presentation="2D" dynamic_range="HDR" width="3840" height="2160" aspect="16:9 display" framerate="23976" duration_ms="10010" angles="1" chapters="3603600,3603767" />
<playlist name="_Feature" id="00001" presentation="2D" dynamic_range="HDR" width="3840" height="2160" aspect="16:9 display" framerate="23976" duration_ms="7222632" aud="eng,eng,fra,fra,deu,ita,spa,zho,spa,por,ces,hun,pol,rus,tha,tur,jpn,eng" sub="jpn,eng,fra,deu,ita,spa,nld,zho,zho,zho,kor,spa,por,ara,ces,dan,fin,heb,nor,pol,por,rus,swe,tur,jpn,eng,deu,ita,por,hun,tha,jpn" forced_sub="0,0,1,0,0,1,0,0,1,0,0,1,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,1,0,1,0,1,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,0" aud_com1_idx="17" sub_com1_idx="31" angles="1" chapters="3601598,4361357,4777690,5341127,6170164,6603097,7201611,7751077,8388380,9015673,9542408,10297245,10823980" />
<playlist name="Menus" id="00002" presentation="2D" dynamic_range="HDR" width="3840" height="2160" aspect="16:9 display" framerate="23976" duration_ms="213588" aud="eng" angles="1" chapters="3603600,3603767" />
<playlist name="Menus_FRE" id="00026" presentation="2D" dynamic_range="HDR" width="3840" height="2160" aspect="16:9 display" framerate="23976" duration_ms="213588" aud="eng" angles="1" chapters="3603600,3603767" />
<playlist name="Feature_JPN" id="00020" presentation="2D" dynamic_range="HDR" width="3840" height="2160" aspect="16:9 display" framerate="23976" duration_ms="7222632" aud="eng,jpn,eng" sub="jpn,eng,jpn,eng,jpn" forced_sub="0,0,3,3,0" aud_com1_idx="2" sub_com1_idx="4" angles="1" chapters="3601598,4361357,4777690,5341127,6170164,6603097,7201611,7751077,8388380,9015673,9542408,10297245,10823980" />
<playlist name="Feature" id="00019" presentation="2D" dynamic_range="HDR" width="3840" height="2160" aspect="16:9 display" framerate="23976" duration_ms="7222632" aud="eng,eng,fra,fra,deu,ita,spa,zho,spa,por,ces,hun,pol,rus,tha,tur,eng" sub="eng,fra,deu,ita,spa,nld,zho,zho,zho,kor,spa,por,ara,ces,dan,fin,heb,nor,pol,por,rus,swe,tur,eng,deu,ita,por,hun,tha" forced_sub="0,1,0,0,1,0,0,1,0,0,1,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,1,0,1,0,1,3,3,3,3,3,3" aud_com1_idx="16" angles="1" chapters="3601598,4361357,4777690,5341127,6170164,6603097,7201611,7751077,8388380,9015673,9542408,10297245,10823980" />
</playlist-metadata>
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I think I got the chapter display thing fixed. Probably affected a lot of Fox Blu-rays, their BD-J stuff looks like its rather generic and re-used on many discs.
Hopefully it doesn't break anything else, but I'm pretty positive!
Luckily for me most of those discs have built-in debug logging, you just need to figure out how to enable it, but nothing a Java Decompiler can't help with (even if its all obfuscated up the wazoo).
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Nice - I'll run over a few and see if anything pops ups (pun intended!)
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For UHD, all you are basically doing is causing an error parsing that file, since aspect is mandatory, which somehow works around the problem further down the line (same effect as earlier, removing the line from qClient, etc). What exactly the problem is, is harder to determine.
But I just figured out how to enable logging on those UHD discs (like mentioend above, most have it, just need to find it), so hopefully that enlightens me when I get back to it.
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No probs - Looks like I don't have to travel next week for work so I have plenty of time to obsess over this stuff if needed. ;D
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Since I need to roll an update for libbluray anyway for the chapters, I figured I might take a peek whats going on with the UHD stuff. But nothing too interesting found quite yet.
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No probs - Looks like I don't have to travel next week for work so I have plenty of time to obsess over this stuff if needed. ;D
Uh oh.
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Got to have a hobby or I'd drive my Wife nuts and I can not afford a divorce!
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No comment.
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Of course the first UHD BD I find that had this onQClient / playlists.xml setup actually plays without problems. Go figure. Lets dig some more. I knew I had one that stalled as well, but I forget which one.
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Here is the list that freezes for me:
Argo
Atomic Blond
Baby Driver
Billy Lyn
Blade Runner 2049
Bourne Identity
Dark Tower
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part 1
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part 2
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
Harry Potter Half Blood Prince
Inferno
Lego Batman
Life
Passengers
Spider Man Homecomming
T2 Trainspotting
Underworld: Blood Wars
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This Mad Max UHD BD is weird. It has JAR files on it, but the menu is HDMV. Go figure. I wonder what ever those JAR files do.
Another interesting note, even the Menu is HDR already, which makes it look rather odd. I got feelers out to madshi if we can somehow render HDR menu overlays properly.
Edit:
Actually I was wrong, it just looks like a crappy HDMV menu, but it isn't. Ha.
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Can you play Mad Max? For me Creed,Mad Max Fury Road, and Man of Steel and three I can not get past the initial OK button as it is not selectable. You are just stuck on this screen.
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Yeah I got that at first, but now I just told it that I have a 4K screen. :P
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....and how pray tell did you do that!
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Magic (actually by filling in PSR26). Note that you'll need to switch your files back to officially being UHD files for all this to work properly eventually.
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I know (my util lets you swap back and forth the changes I made as it was the only way I could test these discs in MC. I just kept modding stuff till they would play!!). FYI - I get the 4K msg regardless if my screen is 4K or not.
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FYI - I get the 4K msg regardless if my screen is 4K or not.
Of course you do, libbluray doesn't know what your screen is, MC has to tell it. But I'm just going to claim that everyone has a 4K and HDR screen, no need to be picky there!
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Perfect!
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Unfortunately I only have like one of the discs on your list and my copy works. So guess I'll have to do some more digging. Or maybe pretending to have a 4K device already helped?
Edit:
Heh. Actually apparently you caused the problem yourself. If I remove all special handling for UHD discs (like you would with a 0200 header), then it fails. If I re-add the stuff that sets the player profile etc, it works.
So we'll try enabling this once I run a libbluray update to sort out one or two things.
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There is also Planet Earth II (Disc 1 and 2) if you have those. These freeze after the into splash screen but are also fixed the same way.
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There, the next build now enables UHD BD Menus for testing. You should switch your discs back to 0300 because MC uses that to set a few different settings on libbluray, and it might not work otherwise.
Also got subtitles to work, but on HDR its all going to be the wrong colors until madshi can get us some HDR overlay rendering.
Properly processing overlays and subtitles in HDR is going to take some more effort down the line.
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:) can't wait to test!
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That's extremely exciting! Hopefully I can finally get some testing done tomorrow. Things on a personal level have been a little busy the last few weeks.
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Outstanding! Run over all 72 UHDs, only issues are:
- Hunger Games: Mockingjay - Part 1 & 2 : Always starts in Title Mode but you can manually switch to BD Menu Mode : Fixed. Were imported as MPLS.
- Jack Reacher Never Go Back : Freeze on Start
- Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi : Freeze after Language Selection - Reripped all content bar the M2TS files and now it works fine
I'll check these three some more to see if they need re-ripping etc or what makes them "different" to the rest. Apart from that the UHD BD discs work beautifully! I saw no issues with navigation, missing menu items, unselectable buttons etc.
FYI - I will also need to go back and add any Rips missing the Certificate folder as without this you do get some issues with discs asking if you want to resume but then they start from the beginning.
I also have 2 discs with ATMOS Drop Out problems. With these I've muxed in an additional Audio Track (the std DTS-MA from the BD Disc). Not surprisingly, these discs stall on playback. Would it be possible to have a Playback Info field to tag these discs so they default to Title Playback (which of course works). This option may also be good for other problematic discs. FYI the discs with the ATMOS Drop Out Problems are:
- Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2
- Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales
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7. Fixed: During Blu-ray Menu Playback, a Chapter indicator could pop-up mid-playback on some discs.
Confirmed
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Down to just - "Jack Reacher Never Go Back : Freeze on Start" Will not play either from the rip or original discs. Can't see anything special on this one. Works fine if I make it a 0200 discs.
Let me know if you need a structure or logs etc
... but 71/72 now play just fine! Thanks again for the quick support for UHD BD Menus!
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Don't know if you have this one, but Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk UHD has a 23p into / menu, but the main movie is 59p. This causes some grief in Menu mode on my HTPC, in that:
- MC switches to 23p
- Menu plays fine
- Main title starts but plays ultra slow, almost like it has hung slow (display is still in 23p mode).
I've tried both MC's and madVR's display rate switcher but non will kick the display over to 59p on the actual movie. Also tried using "(15:DisplaySettings)(15:3640x2160x32x59)" in the Playback Info and this did kick the movie off in 60p mode but oddly the playback issue was still the same on the main movie and now the menu was jurky. Yet I can play this movie just fine from my Main PC with a fixed 60hz display.
Plays fine in Title Mode of course.
Could be another candidate for being able to tag movies as Play in Title Mode (...eg add option to Playback Info)
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Did some more Testing on UHD Jack Reacher: Never Go Back (this is the only one left that stalls on start). From the Log it seems that libbluray can't find 00099.mpls and this is because it is NOT on the original disc.
I tried copying various other mpls --> 00099.mpls and playback would then proceed but it would be without the menu items being drawn. The lack of menu was fixed by the post below. Copying one of the other short MPLS (eg a warning one) to 00099.mpls works, but I "think" the right one would be 00000.mpls as this is the initial lang selection screen for the following menu (but if I substitute this one for 00099.mpls then it stalls at the end of this screen as there is no corresponding button action to activate).
Let me know if you want the structure.
Thanks
Nathan
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FYI, I "lost" all my Menu Items on my Main PC when using madVR. They were in fact drawn outside the video frame. I was testing the newer madVR release and the fix was not to just delete the madVR folder but everything in the plug in directory and let MC download them again. Weird.
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I reported the off-position OSD to madshi, hopefully he can fix it in the same version that'll give us HDR Overlay rendering - at which time we'll want to update to it. :)
For the record it started with 0.92.12, .11 was still fine.
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Thanks - My std response now to posts on weirdness is to ask them to delete all the Plug folders and start again from a Known Good Source!
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Thanks - My std response now to posts on weirdness is to ask them to delete all the Plug folders and start again from a Known Good Source!
Pffffftttt where's the fun in that? :D
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So I'm not sure if BD Menus just "work" or if nobody is using it! Can you tell from the back-end how many times java/libbluray has been downloaded as an idea?
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So I'm not sure if BD Menus just "work" or if nobody is using it! Can you tell from the back-end how many times java/libbluray has been downloaded as an idea?
I'm using them and they works pretty fine on all the disks I've tested (600 european disks). I use menus to watch bonuses. I still face a problem with menus when running menus in zone with convolution, some sound artifact and video slow down. Problem that I don't have when viewing without menu.
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I'm using them and they works pretty fine on all the disks I've tested (600 european disks). I use menus to watch bonuses. I still face a problem with menus when running menus in zone with convolution, some sound artifact and video slow down. Problem that I don't have when viewing without menu.
Don't know if this problem with convolution is something that could be corrected, but I already faced this with DVDs, it seems related to some latency induced by the navigator filter. If it's not solvable, It would be cool to have a zone switch mechanism when reading with menu or without. (I watch bonuses in a separate zone without convolution)
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I've been using BD Menus with full folder rips, as you have been Nathan. I haven't played an awful lot of discs, but they have all worked. Ripped with DVDfab.
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Don't know if this problem with convolution is something that could be corrected, but I already faced this with DVDs, it seems related to some latency induced by the navigator filter. If it's not solvable, It would be cool to have a zone switch mechanism when reading with menu or without. (I watch bonuses in a separate zone without convolution)
AFAIK (i.e. unless something has changed over the last few years), this is not something that can be fixed because it is some external component (as per https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,79916.msg543531.html#msg543531)
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AFAIK (i.e. unless something has changed over the last few years), this is not something that can be fixed because it is some external component (as per https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,79916.msg543531.html#msg543531)
I'm aware of this post. But in BD discs I think that the navigator is not the Microsoft one. That's why it took a while to have something in MC. Don't know if problem is related to filter architecture or implementation...
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I'm aware of this post. But in BD discs I think that the navigator is not the Microsoft one. That's why it took a while to have something in MC. Don't know if problem is related to filter architecture or implementation...
sorry I misread the earlier post as being about problems with convolution and dvds. I use convolution and don't recall any audio issues with BD menus. Is it particular discs or events or all the time?
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It probably depends on the amount of audio latency you introduce through convolution, and the amount of video latency you have to offset that. ie. using ROHQ has a higher video latency, so it'll allow for more audio latency before its unable to sync those up on output again. Audio latency is also impacted by resampling. If you are resampling, use SoX as it has a far lower latency.
I may be able to dynamically feed more audio into the chain when its running out to fix this, but not 100% sure it would work reliably.
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sorry I misread the earlier post as being about problems with convolution and dvds. I use convolution and don't recall any audio issues with BD menus. Is it particular discs or events or all the time?
I'm going to check again may be latest builds have fixed again. Since I'm watching BD in this configuration maybe I'm using a workaround that is not necessary anymore.
But when I tested with the early releases it was pretty bad on all my BD.
@Hendrik, would the navigator filter not be neutral for the audio path? I've(maybe had) no problem when watching the movie without the menu feature.
I come back soon after I check again. What kind of information would be helpful?
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I've been testing it all week (finally) and haven't run into any issues so far with the titles I've thrown at it. I'm very happy about this functionality!
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@Hendrik, would the navigator filter not be neutral for the audio path? I've(maybe had) no problem when watching the movie without the menu feature.
I come back soon after I check again. What kind of information would be helpful?
Audio and Video is stored in the files interleaved, ie. audio and video alternating, so if you read the file, you read both audio and video equally. This is nice for playback, since you can just linearly read the file and all is well.
But it causes problems if you need different amounts of audio and video before it gets to the output. If the video processing chain buffers around 1 second of video (say 24 frames), but the audio chain has a latency of 2 seconds, where does the extra second of video go?
Thats most likely the cause for these problems, the source doesn't have anywhere to put the extra video while the audio chain is still asking for more data. To overcome this problem, there is a bit of buffering, so it can store a few frames of audio or video to compensate for differences in processing latency, which usually works fine. But there is a limit to how much it can buffer to keep the interactive parts of the menu actually properly interactive (if you buffer too much, that suffers), and you may be running against that limit.
Of course I could just make the buffer generally bigger, but as said above too large buffers cause the interactivity to suffer (especially in Menu playback) - which is why its fine outside of menu playback, since there bigger buffers are fine. But maybe I can add some checks that allow the buffers to dynamically grow if the audio is still starving for data, since broken playback is worse then a bit sluggish interactive playback.
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How do licensed players handle that kind of situation?? It would seem logical that they'd have the same issues to overcome, no?
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How do licensed players handle that kind of situation?? It would seem logical that they'd have the same issues to overcome, no?
Nobody else does convolution in a decent licensed Player. MC is unique on this point, especially when playing video.
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Audio and Video is stored in the files interleaved, ie. audio and video alternating, so if you read the file, you read both audio and video equally. This is nice for playback, since you can just linearly read the file and all is well.
But it causes problems if you need different amounts of audio and video before it gets to the output. If the video processing chain buffers around 1 second of video (say 24 frames), but the audio chain has a latency of 2 seconds, where does the extra second of video go?
Thats most likely the cause for these problems, the source doesn't have anywhere to put the extra video while the audio chain is still asking for more data. To overcome this problem, there is a bit of buffering, so it can store a few frames of audio or video to compensate for differences in processing latency, which usually works fine. But there is a limit to how much it can buffer to keep the interactive parts of the menu actually properly interactive (if you buffer too much, that suffers), and you may be running against that limit.
Of course I could just make the buffer generally bigger, but as said above too large buffers cause the interactivity to suffer (especially in Menu playback) - which is why its fine outside of menu playback, since there bigger buffers are fine. But maybe I can add some checks that allow the buffers to dynamically grow if the audio is still starving for data, since broken playback is worse then a bit sluggish interactive playback.
I've just checked some disks, and I confirm I'm still having audio pops and video slow downs with the 24.0.28x64
I'm pretty ignorant in all the filter stuff, what you say is that the chain is working in pull mode where the device is getting the data from the stream. Then the only way would be to prepare a lot of audio before diffusing the video.
Is there a way to know how much latency the convolution is introducing?
I see what you mean by talking about sluggish interactive playback, but I would prefer to have a menu that reacts with 500ms delay with audio convolution.
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Nobody else does convolution in a decent licensed Player. MC is unique on this point, especially when playing video.
MC is unique in most points which is why we all use it. :D
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Iron Man 3 blu-ray doesn't seem to work quite properly. I'd have to compare what happens to an actual player but the menu never seems to finish drawing and nothing is active on the menu. This is the US release.
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The next build implements some changes that should allow the latency to grow when the audio chain demands it. In my tests with a naive long Convolution filter that did fix playback.
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:P So it does! Always just hit Next Next! Silly me.
Any difference with LAVFilters-0.71.0-49.exe from LAVFilters-0.71.0-42.exe that needs testing?
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Any difference with LAVFilters-0.71.0-49.exe from LAVFilters-0.71.0-42.exe that needs testing?
Nothing specific really. If you want to, just install it and make sure everything still works as it should. Primarily that bitstreaming activates and stays on when its supposed to, but I don't really expect a lot of problems.
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Nothing specific really. If you want to, just install it and make sure everything still works as it should. Primarily that bitstreaming activates and stays on when its supposed to, but I don't really expect a lot of problems.
So far, so good.
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FYI - Watched Red Sparrow UHD in Menu Mode (Bitstreaming Atmos) tonight and there were 4 audio drops outs. There does not seem to be anything "special" about this disc. Was using the latest LAV Nightly. After the movie had finished I went back to where the first drop out was (12:45) but it was not reproducible in either Menu or Title mode..... so no idea = not much help I'm afraid.
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That would only be interesting if you play it a couple more times with the old and the new to check if this is a problem that hasn't existed before. :)
I wouldn't really expect a drop out though, if something weird goes wrong maybe a desync over time? Although maybe that'll then force it to drop to compensate? Hm who knows.
Since the first one happened only 12 minutes into the movie, maybe it can be repeated without hours of time investment? :D
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Here is the log from V33 + LAVFilters-0.71.0-49. At the 4:50 mark I get a bunch of Video Frames dropped in madVR + an audio drop. The log has these drift entries:
0407062: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -101.490 ms
0407062: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -100.104 ms
0407062: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -100.071 ms
0407062: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -100.043 ms
0407078: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -99.470 ms
0407078: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -99.433 ms
0407078: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -99.399 ms
0407078: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -99.367 ms
0407078: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -98.738 ms
0407078: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -98.699 ms
0407078: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -98.667 ms
0407078: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -98.639 ms
0407078: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -97.988 ms
0407078: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -97.954 ms
0407078: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -97.924 ms
0407078: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -97.897 ms
0407078: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -97.239 ms
0407078: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -97.179 ms
0407078: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -97.133 ms
0407078: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -97.098 ms
0407078: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -96.479 ms
0407078: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -95.741 ms
0407078: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -95.672 ms
0407172: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -45.383 ms
0407172: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -45.240 ms
0407172: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -45.206 ms
0407187: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -41.433 ms
0407187: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -41.348 ms
0407297: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 14.368 ms
0407359: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 44.939 ms
0407359: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 43.251 ms
0407359: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 43.280 ms
0407359: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 44.627 ms
0407406: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 70.669 ms
0407469: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 96.012 ms
0407469: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 96.958 ms
0407469: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 97.690 ms
0407469: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 97.750 ms
0407484: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 103.692 ms
0407578: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 154.022 ms
0407578: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 155.493 ms
0407578: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 156.280 ms
0407578: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 156.312 ms
0407578: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 156.340 ms
0407687: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 208.747 ms
0407687: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 208.859 ms
0407703: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 165.720 ms
0407703: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 82.859 ms
0407703: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 41.430 ms
0407750: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 22.777 ms
0407750: 12088: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 11.093 ms
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Does that only happen in menu mode?
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That test was in Menu Mode. I'll now retest in Title Mode then with the MC Packaged Version of LAV.
FYI here is some shots of the MadVR stats. (taken from the phone as I did not want to interupt anything). The thing of interest is that this happened at around the time that madVR was reporting that a frame repeat would happen.
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Ok got a single repeated and presentation glitch at about the 5min same point but no audio issues or a bunch of dropped frames. Doo you want the log or let the movie keep running?
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No need for a log. I'll try to figure out whats going on. Seems weird that a single video glitch would somehow throw off audio like that, but maybe the timing is coincidental.
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OK - FYI there was another frame repeat at around the 9 min mark, but nothing freaked out. I'll re-run in Menu Mode again to see that it is repeatable or a coincidence.
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This time it happened at the 10.5 min mark. Same sort of entries in the Log:
0676250: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -52.937 ms
0676250: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -51.302 ms
0676250: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -51.260 ms
0676250: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -51.222 ms
0676250: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -50.563 ms
0676250: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -50.527 ms
0676250: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -50.497 ms
0676250: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -50.467 ms
0676250: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -50.428 ms
0676250: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -50.393 ms
0676250: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -49.822 ms
0676250: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -49.780 ms
0676250: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -49.747 ms
0676250: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -49.715 ms
0676250: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -49.686 ms
0676250: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -49.078 ms
0676250: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -49.040 ms
0676250: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -49.010 ms
0676250: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -48.985 ms
0676250: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -48.956 ms
0676265: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -43.861 ms
0676312: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -19.021 ms
0676328: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -14.332 ms
0676375: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 15.370 ms
0676390: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 21.924 ms
0676484: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 72.267 ms
0676500: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 72.468 ms
0676500: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 72.530 ms
0676500: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 72.562 ms
0676500: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 72.591 ms
0676593: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 124.939 ms
0676593: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 125.060 ms
0676593: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 125.228 ms
0676609: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 101.296 ms
0676625: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 50.646 ms
0676671: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 25.377 ms
0676687: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 15.178 ms
0676890: 2776: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by 7.499 ms
I'll run a longer test in Titlemode to double check....
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Yup - Title Playback looks solid. Did not see any real issues after 1 hour of playback (well there were 15 repeated frames - one every 4.5 min or so as per madVR stats). Also the log did not have any big slabs of Correcting Drift like with Menu Playback, just the odd single correction (post the initial startup corrections):
3793140: 4608: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -5.249 ms
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Retest: Maze Runner Menu Playback. Big drop just before the 10min mark. Lots of big blocks of Drift Correction throught the log but the big drop seemed to coincide with this segment:
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -1021.708
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -1001.911
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -982.009
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -962.115
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -942.212
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -922.468
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -902.567
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -882.686
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -862.784
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -842.897
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -822.997
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -803.102
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -782.347
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -762.433
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -742.518
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -722.598
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -702.675
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -682.749
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -662.826
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -642.903
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -622.975
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -603.055
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -583.132
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -563.208
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -543.274
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -523.348
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Dropping sample because it is too late; Error: -503.439
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -501.756 ms
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -501.756 ms
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -501.756 ms
0623250: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -501.756 ms
0623312: 8168: Playback: COSDWindow::UpdatePosition: Start
0623312: 8168: Playback: COSDWindow::UpdatePosition: Finish (0 ms)
0623343: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -482.871 ms
0623343: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -482.685 ms
0623343: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -482.625 ms
0623343: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -482.580 ms
0623343: 5300: Playback: COutputPluginAudioRenderer::DoRenderSample: Correcting drift by -482.443 ms
Now testing this disc on Title Playback.
Edit - Title Playback looks good. In the log there were some pairs of small + and -'ve drift correction but I did not hear or see any issues from these.
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FYI - Had an idea that LipSync correction may have had an impact, so I removed it. No change... same set of adjustments when in Menu Mode
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I let Mace Runner in Menu Mode with bitstreaming running for about 30 minutes and nothing really happened. I don't think its necessarily related to the DirectShow chain itself much, since it would otherwise be more reliable to reproduce it - the file parsing is the same every time, afterall.
From the logs, it seems like what you posted in your latest post was immediately after a seek? A few cutouts after seeking are probably to be expected.
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That's almost always true of seeks at least in my experience. jmone, what video card and driver are you rocking right now? That may be more of an issue than anything.
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The next build implements some changes that should allow the latency to grow when the audio chain demands it. In my tests with a naive long Convolution filter that did fix playback.
Until now I had no time to test this, but I've just tested on some disk and it improves a lot the experience! (until now I had no sound hickup)
Hendrik you are great, thanks for the improvement.
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From the logs, it seems like what you posted in your latest post was immediately after a seek? A few cutouts after seeking are probably to be expected.
Nope - there was no seek, just let it run. I can retest when I'm back at home (in a few days)
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Nope - there was no seek, just let it run. I can retest when I'm back at home (in a few days)
The log says you were seeking, though! From the OSD, apparently.
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Unless it was after the drop .... I bring up an osd to see the time posn prior to stopping??? Else it is either the wrong or incomplete log as this is the PC that gets permission issues writing to the log
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Back and retested on Red Sparrow. I promise I did not do any seeks! :) I did a clean boot and from MC then (all in one log):
- 1st part is playing in Menu Mode. Audio drop just before the 5min min mark and a bunch of dropped/repeated frames at this point
- 2nd part is playing in Title Mode. All fine and I let it run about 10min (well the expected 2 repeated frames) but no audio issues.
Looking at the log I see a bunch of drift correct when in Menu mode compared to Title Mode.
Around for the next few days so happy to try stuff.
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Did you ever test if this happens with old LAV? Or with a DTS-HD MA disc for that matter?
I also did some more changes that *could* help reliability with TrueHD bitstreaming in the very latest nightlies of LAV..
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I'll test with the MC Packaged LAV Now on this disc.... (it could be disc specific?)
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MC Packaged LAV did not have this issue over 10min - log attached (did not see any big slabs of drift correction post start up). I'll now try the latest LAV Nightly
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Hrm thats somewhat unfortunate. Although I don't understand why that wouldn't happen with title playback then still.
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Still the issue with the latest LAV Nightly (this time around the 6.5 min mark). I'm retesting with the MC Packaged version again to double check - will let this one run longer.
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If it would actually be triggered by the LAV changes, then I also don't understand why it changes in timing everytime. If it would be doing something wrong with the audio, you would think it would happen at the same spot, and be actually reproducable on other systems (like with the dropouts with old LAV on Atmos)
At this point I think something may be causing hiccups on your system for some reason, but the log doesn't show any indication of what may be going on in the background.
Maybe I can make a special build that increases the size of the buffering in the BD source filter, as that may increase the resilience of playback.
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OK - just got it on MC Lav at the 16.5min mark in Menu Mode... Big slab of Drift Correction. Will now test with MC Lav in Title Mode.
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I made a replacement JRPlayer.dll with increased buffers (about 2.5x the size), maybe it does something (x64 only).
https://files.1f0.de/jr/temp/JRPlayer-bufferchanges.zip
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OK - I'll test that next. Do you want that tested with MC Lav or Nightly LAV?
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Nightly I guess. Thats the one we want to use in the future!
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20min in and looking good. I like Red Sparrow as a movie but I now can recite the first 10min word for word! It is not that good! No audio drops so far 😄
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I saw it in the cinema, it was ok and I like JLaw, but not sure I would want to be able to recite it. :)
Thanks for testing!
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I'm not much of a JLaw fan though oddly I like her movies! Anyway, looks like the buffer change nailed the issue. After 45 Min no Audio Drops outs and the logs show no drift adjustments at all (post the initial ones). Great work!
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I also made it now scale the buffer size with the movies framerate, so that its always about one second long. Previously a 60 fps movie would probably be far more likely to develop issues then a 24 fps movie would.
Hopefully this squares it away for good. Maybe I can finish the release of LAV on the weekend and get that into MC as well then.
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Sounds good! Anything from madshi on the drawing issue in the newer madVR?
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Not yet, he is apparently quite busy with his commercial work right now.
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FYI - you asked about DTS-MA, watched BD 3 Billboards tonight with no issues (new LAV and new DLL).
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MC V35 looks good - let Red Sparrow run though and no sign of audio issues :)
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I have a weird issue and it's not even a huge problem just odd. I've been doing a lot of Marvel blu-rays the past month or so and lately when it's going to the next title in the play list before you get to the menu, it shows the volume bar at the bottom of the screen. It's really strange like I said but it happens during transitions between titlesets. Anyone else seeing that?
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How did I not notice this one before....subtitles are simply off when playing by menu? That seems....ungood? I'm watching a title I know will have forced subs for a foreign language and I can't even select the sub track. I get I can switch to titleset playback but shouldn't any forced subs be played by default in menu mode?
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The menus control the subtitles. Seems to work fine for me.
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AHA then I know what the issue is. On Disney titles you get a sub-menu before previews that allows you to skip right to the main movie. I suspect it's not setting the subtitles in that case?
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That is indeed the case. MC just renders whatever the menu logic spits out.
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Well that's no good. Guess I'll have to go to the menu every time.
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Ok I finished watching the movie so I took a look at the menu. This specific disc sucks! The subtitle choices in the menu are None, English for hearing impaired, and other languages. They have to have forced subs even when "none" is selected because the disc plays properly on a licensed player with the subtitles when they're speaking in Wakandan (I guess that's what you call it LOL). That's just not right!
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Is that UHD or normal Blu-ray?
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Regular blu-ray. It's from the 4k steel book but I've yet to buy my 4K TV.
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My copy of Black Panther (which I'm assuming we were talking about) shows forced subtitles automatically. Not sure if its a separate stream or the forced sub filter works properly though. Although I didn't see the option to skip straight to the movie?
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When I play the movie, it asks for language then shows the marvel intro. Just before the previews start to play, a little menu pops up at the bottom that scrolls left and right that allows you to continue with the previews, play the main movie, or skip to the menu. Almost all my Disney discs have this menu. Usually I select play the movie from there. You don't have that on your Black Panther disc?
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I usually just press the top menu button when trailers play to skip them, may have missed that thing.
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Which is fine. I'll have to test it again ensuring I START IT from the menu itself and see if that triggers the subtitles. It didn't from the mini-menu bar thing that comes up so I have my doubts since that should have worked as it does on other players.
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I just tried using that menu and it still activates subtitle track 7, which I assume is the forced sub track, and it shows fine at 3:30 or so when its used first.
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Then I've no idea what's happening but it most definitely said subtitles were off and never showed them.
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So I just tried again with always show subtitles in the options selected and it didn't change. I switched over to a licensed player and they show just fine. I really don't know what's happening with this disc or how I can help you troubleshoot it. Especially given that it's working for you. Is there some setting in MC that I'm missing that needs to be set?
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You can look at a log, it indicates which tracks are being enabled.
There should be entries like this:
Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: PG TextST (1)
Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: PG TextST Stream (7)
Which indicates that PG subtitles are activated, and using stream 7.
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Ok, sorry that took longer than it should have to enable logging. LOL
Yes, I see PG TextST Stream (7) after it starts processing playlist (800) so it's definitely in the log. I'm not sure why it's not being displayed then.
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Try RO Std, or resetting madVR settings, or the version to the one we ship if you changed that - newer madVR versions have some issues with overlays.
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Yea something's definitely broken with subs. I switched to title playback and forced the issue by enabling track 7 and they still don't show so this is NOT a menu issue this is something on my machine failing to show subs. Sorry for the red herring but thanks for helping me troubleshoot!
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You were right. madvr is the issue. I'll report it in the madvr thread. I'm sure madshi's probably aware but never hurts.
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Yeah I told him about that, but he has been busy the last weeks.
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I know he has. No rush. Just wanted to add to his pile. :D LOL
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Anyone got Batman Begins north America release? Menu came up blank but I was able to click on play and then it just hangs. Never plays the main movie.
EDIT:
Stopped and restarted playback and the menu and stuff came up fine. Played the disc and it selected dolby digital instead of TrueHD. Switched to title playback at this point and it's playing fine. Weird.
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Checked my version (BD from Oz). There is no Main Menu & main title starts playing. Popup Menu works fine, though as you said, you need to select the TrueHD Stream as it is the 2nd option.
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Yea it does try to start the main movie without a menu. But the audio track selection is odd. I'll test it on a licensed player tomorrow and see what it selects. I do remember this title being strange but it's been a while since I played it last.
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I even have some UHD where the default track is not the "best" and you have to manually select it. When playing in Title Mode, LAV has more control and auto picks the "best" track.
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Yea, that I knew. Lav is good at prioritizing HD audio. Why they would master a disc that defaults to lossy when a lossless track exists is beyond me. In any case, it's not a menu playback issue so nothing to see here.
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Why they would master a disc that defaults to lossy when a lossless track exists is beyond me.
Simple. They want it to play on the lowest common denominator equipment, which probably means for users that aren't aware of HD audio.
Those aware of HD audio go looking for it, and select the correct track.
I think it might even be a standard that the default track is the most playable track. It was for some disc types in the past I think...
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It's actually not that simple. The menu is what sets up which tracks are selected. I've got maybe a handful out of my 800+ discs that default to lossy tracks. In the case of Batman Begins, as pointed out, there's no menu which might be why it's defaulted to a lossy track. In the case of DTS-HD MA, where DTS is a core track and the MA is an extension, there's no need to default to anything else because those that can't play the MA extension will default to core. TrueHD is where it gets trickier, which is what Batman Begins is. There's no core lossy audio in TrueHD...AC3 is a separate track. And those are the ones that could be defaulted. To jmone's point, I never tried to bring up the popup menu to switch the audio track as I didn't think of it at the time. I instead opted to switch to title playback which LAV then detects the TrueHD track and selects it on its own. You'd think there'd be some kind of "standard" but blu-ray is quite frankly a mess.
In any case, the reason for posting it here was in case there was an issue with the menu code. There is not. It handles the disc exactly the same as a licensed player which is exactly what I would expect it to do.
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Simple. They want it to play on the lowest common denominator equipment, which probably means for users that aren't aware of HD audio.
But they don't have to. The Blu-ray Player has the ability to communicate to the menu which audio formats are supported (and we flag all of them as supported). Unfortunately however the menu logic seems to largely ignore that. :(
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But they don't have to. The Blu-ray Player has the ability to communicate to the menu which audio formats are supported (and we flag all of them as supported). Unfortunately however the menu logic seems to largely ignore that. :(
I've noticed which sucks. It's worse on movies that skip menus altogether but even those have logic to select the playlist to play so I don't really get it. I maintain that MC is doing the right thing with these discs as they act like a commercial player.
I know what I'd LIKE to have but I also know it's probably not super simple to implement....an option in MC that says "if HD audio exists in the language selected, use that instead of what the crappy/non-existent menu decides to use". LOL It would be nice but not going to happen I'm sure.
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Thanks for the new LAV! Hope madshi finds some time to fix the off screen text bug soon. Also while I'm dreaming, it would be nice to have a later nVidia driver that works with custom res switching for my JVC (stuck on 385.28?) for now.
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Thanks for the new LAV! Hope madshi finds some time to fix the off screen text bug soon. Also while I'm dreaming, it would be nice to have a later nVidia driver that works with custom res switching for my JVC (stuck on 385.28?) for now.
BAHAHA, yea, nVidia doesn't seem to be wanting to fix that.