INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => JRiver Media Center 30 for Windows => Topic started by: JimH on September 30, 2022, 11:42:33 am
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We're talking about changes to the site. Please make any suggestions you can. What works? What doesn't?
Thanks.
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A plain black / gray forum would be nice. A forum should be simple and utilitarian, so architecturally, it's sound in its current state. Visually though?
The current use of gradients and shaded buttons is really dated and I've had to cobble together my own CSS to make it a bit nicer.
DarkReader works fine to not have the searing light backgrounds but the very 2000s 'image based' buttons, gradients and shading stick out like a sore thumb.
For the main site?
It's a little barebones but I also don't have a particular problem with the information contained. Purchase / License should be split up a bit more, it doesn't make me 'feel' like I'm purchasing a premium product from a reputable company. The redirect to https://rover.jriver.com/cgi-bin/buy.cgi is like a timewarp back to the era of GeoCities. That's got to be replaced at some point.
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Off the top of my head the one change I can think of is the "Accessories Page" - the only link I've found to it is the slightly misleading View >>. Skin >> Skin Download Page option. Which as anybody who has used the link will discover it takes them to page where Skins are not the only Plugins Available.
But there is another problem with that page, if you sue any of the links to other parts of the website you soon become aware of the fact that there is no link that would enable you to get back to the Accessories Page.
I would also suggest that this would be an ideal opportunity to tidy up the various "accessory " category pages as there are plugins listed that either no longer work in MC, have been discontinued for a variety of reasons or are located on external websites that no longer exists.
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what eve said +1
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what eve said +1
I hope it's not misconstrued as a dig at JRiver or their trustworthiness. I also understand that payment processing cuts into your margins, however, to be perfectly honest? If you're paying directly with a credit card, it's a bit.... I have no idea how JRiver stores credit card data, how long things are retained, what sort of security / privacy practices are in place etc. I absolutely see this as a turn off for new users, though at least there's PayPal.
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I hope it's not misconstrued as a dig at JRiver or their trustworthiness. I also understand that payment processing cuts into your margins, however, to be perfectly honest? If you're paying directly with a credit card, it's a bit.... I have no idea how JRiver stores credit card data, how long things are retained, what sort of security / privacy practices are in place etc. I absolutely see this as a turn off for new users, though at least there's PayPal.
We don't store credit cards.
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A plain black / gray forum would be nice. A forum should be simple and utilitarian, so architecturally, it's sound in its current state. Visually though?
In your profile, you can change your theme. I use Curve.
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We don't store credit cards.
I didn't expect that you did. It's more the perception of what's possible, versus conducting sales with an established third party processor (really just security theater at the end of the day but does surely put potential customers at ease).
In your profile, you can change your theme. I use Curve.
Thanks for the heads up, I haven't used SMF in ages and wasn't sure if Themes were built in. Typography with a bit of clean up is much cleaner!
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I find the forum very functional. Many new sites are prettier, but do not function as well. So I would be cautious of any significant changes to it.
My only suggestion for the forum is that when sending personal messages, the message you are sending should be automatically saved, rather than saving being an option.
The Purchase and Download pages on the website are functional but somewhat dense to read. Some reformatting and font change might help make them easier to quickly scan.
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One change I would like to see made to the forum is that the "Go Up" link at the bottom of the page should take you all the way to the top instead of just to the first post on the page. As it is now if you click "Go Up" you still need to scroll up to see "Show unread posts since last visit". For that reason I hit Ctl-Home instead, but the link would be handier some of the time. If you don't want to modify how "Go Up" works, then repeating "Show unread posts" beside "Go Up" would work.
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In your profile, you can change your theme. I use Curve.
Thanks, I didn't know that. 'Curve' is nice.
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Thanks for the heads up on the ability to change themes, Jim. I guess I have never bothered to dig around in the forum profile settings before. I have now updated my profile to use the "Curve" theme as well.
For me, a huge improvement to the forum would be to add the capability to paste an image into a post from your clipboard.
On other sites, I am able to take a snip of whatever I want, and then simply paste that (directly from my clipboard) into a post… Very quick… Very easy. On this forum, I have to create that snip, save that snip to a file, then go back to my in-work post, click the "Attachments And Other Options" button, then click the "Browse" button, navigate to where I saved the screen snip on my computer, and then click it to finally attach it to the post. Even after all that, when I preview my post it does not show the screen snip.
Shortening this process to match what other sites do would make it far easier, and thus more likely for me to make the effort to answer other peoples questions (as well as ask my own). It is undeniable that using screenshots to illuminate an issue is way better than trying to explain it all with words only.
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Thanks for the heads up on the ability to change themes, Jim. I guess I have never bothered to dig around in the forum profile settings before. I have now updated my profile to use the "Curve" theme as well.
For me, a huge improvement to the forum would be to add the capability to paste an image into a post from your clipboard.
On other sites, I am able to take a snip of whatever I want, and then simply paste that (directly from my clipboard) into a post… Very quick… Very easy. On this forum, I have to create that snip, save that snip to a file, then go back to my in-work post, click the "Attachments And Other Options" button, then click the "Browse" button, navigate to where I saved the screen snip on my computer, and then click it to finally attach it to the post. Even after all that, when I preview my post it does not show the screen snip.
Shortening this process to match what other sites do would make it far easier, and thus more likely for me to make the effort to answer other peoples questions (as well as ask my own). It is undeniable that using screenshots to illuminate an issue is way better than trying to explain it all with words only.
Greenshot. Just use the upload to imgur function and paste that link it gives you. It's 3 button presses 'screenshot, select area', a context menu shows up and you hit 'upload to imgur' and then the link will be in your clipboard.
https://github.com/greenshot/greenshot
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I have been using Greenshot for a decade, but have never used the auto-upload to image server sites. Not thrilled about storing random images on a public site, but for this purpose I guess it is no big deal. Testing it right now.
https://i.imgur.com/955qTmP.png
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Okay… I have to admit that's pretty slick and waaaaaaaay faster!
I always wondered how people created those links where hovering over them would show the image. Compared to my standard approach where a big screenshot would fill almost the entire monitor window, this is exceedingly more space efficient. Thank you eve.
It does occur to me however, I use Greenshot basically all the time, and I don't want to upload everything to Imgur. Consequently, I'll have to only activate that auto-upload option when I am doing posts to the forum.
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Okay… I have to admit that's pretty slick and waaaaaaaay faster!
I always wondered how people created those links where hovering over them would show the image. Compared to my standard approach where a big screenshot would fill almost the entire monitor window, this is exceedingly more space efficient. Thank you eve.
It does occur to me however, I use Greenshot basically all the time, and I don't want to upload everything to Imgur. Consequently, I'll have to only activate that auto-upload option when I am doing posts to the forum.
OH! Okay so what you're going to want to do is right click the Greenshot icon in your task bar > quick preferences > destination > set destination dynamically. That's how I have mine setup since like you, I don't need every screenshot uploaded to Imgur. This way, it'll bring up a context menu and ask you after the screenshot what you want to do with it.
ShareX is good but almost too featureful for what it ends up getting used for. We use it here for work stuff because it easily can upload to a server you control and generate a link, so as we're working on projects we can share screenshots or short screen recordings.
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Would you consider installing additional themes for the forum? I only see 4 options. None of them give a modern dark appearance option. I think SMF forum engine can be improved with more theme options because the default look is quite bland and dated. Giving users more theme options allows them to tailor the forum to their taste and will improve engagement and user retention.
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Is the intention of this thread to discuss changes to the forum or the main web site?
Brian.
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Web site.
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First suggestion:
Make your main web page a product brief. Tell the potential customer, right up front, what the product does. Having multiple screen shots of the product, right up front, with illustrative text about what it does would be very helpful. A short video showcasing the major features would be a great addition.
Here's the page of a small company that makes one software product that does a specific thing. I think they have done a very good job at the tasks and principles that I just outlined:
https://binarynights.com
I think this would make your web page more clear to consumers and potentially increase sales.
Brian.
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First suggestion:
Make your main web page a product brief. Tell the potential customer, right up front, what the product does. Having multiple screen shots of the product, right up front, with illustrative text about what it does would be very helpful. A short video showcasing the major features would be a great addition.
Here's the page of a small company that makes one software product that does a specific thing. I think they have done a very good job at the tasks and principles that I just outlined:
https://binarynights.com
I think this would make your web page more clear to consumers and potentially increase sales.
That's good, but what do we do? Our homepage does triage because we serve several sectors.
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I don't understand what you mean. If you make several products that you think are important, then showcase them on the front page with a link to a specific product page for each.
If you mean that your product does Audio, Video, and Images, then you can certainly talk about that in a summary video, and/or in part of the product page.
The biggest problem with your current site is that it doesn't show off your product. JRiver arguably makes the best Media Player and Library Manager in the industry. But you wouldn't know that looking at it. Because the information is spread around. Because when you go to find specific information it's extremely sparse. There's ONE screen shot of MC in audio mode.
A single page, which has multiple screen shots and talks specifically about features of the product would be much more friendly. The idea is to reduce the effort for the consumer to get to the information they are interested in: Details about your product!
There are ways to show that you do more than one thing and not hide the big product. Keep the big product (JRiver Media Center) as your showcase on the main page. You can also have a products menu that includes whatever else you want to highlight: consulting services, custom programming, your TCP package... whatever it may be, it can be in the products menu.
For that matter, if custom programming is a big thing for JRiver, then you should probably have a showcase of older products like your Pono specific version of MC, the software you built for Best Buy, and any others that are legally able to be shown to the public.
Brian.
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Generally it looks rather dated, something from 10+ years ago. It also looks bad on mobile (see attached, most of the screen is whitespace). Another example of being dated is in https://jriver.com/thenet.html which illustrates network capabilities via a picture of a galaxy Nexus (which is an 11yr old phone) a picture of a cat on a guitar (which is a particularly random picture!) and paragraphs of text.
I am not a designer so couldn't tell you how to fix this. Most other sites of this nature are pretty formulaic/bland but at least don't look so dated
I would also echo the request for a dark theme btw (for forum at least)
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I mean, if you guys really wanted to modernize the site a little and do it in a easy way, using something like Squarespace (https://www.squarespace.com/) likely could get something up and running pretty quickly.
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I would also echo the request for a dark theme btw (for forum at least)
Forum 'style' is easy. Curve isn't bad. Just fix the CSS yourself or use DarkReader. Here's my 5 minute fix, surely anyone could do way better, or at least use a few different icons for posts.
(https://i.imgur.com/Tjfc65U.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/NUkYE3Y.png)
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Providing a dark mode out of the box is a standard thing for a remotely modern website to provide without needing the user to roll their own (in my view at least)
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Providing a dark mode out of the box is a standard thing for a remotely modern website to provide without needing the user to roll their own (in my view at least)
Yeah I agree. I mean, you should be using DarkReader anyways....
https://github.com/darkreader/darkreader
Either install from release, the relevant browser 'store', or build yourself
The font is Inter, Monospaced is MonoLisa
https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Inter
https://www.monolisa.dev
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Yeah I agree. I mean, you should be using DarkReader anyways....
https://github.com/darkreader/darkreader
Either install from release, the relevant browser 'store', or build yourself
The font is Inter, Monospaced is MonoLisa
https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Inter
https://www.monolisa.dev
Are the screenshots you shared above accomplished with DarkReader or something else?
I installed DarkReader and by default, it is an improvement on the forum, however, it doesn't look anything like what you posted.
Thanks.
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Are the screenshots you shared above accomplished with DarkReader or something else?
I installed DarkReader and by default, it is an improvement on the forum, however, it doesn't look anything like what you posted.
Thanks.
My own css tweaks.
It's all really straightforward stuff.
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First suggestion:
Make your main web page a product brief. Tell the potential customer, right up front, what the product does. Having multiple screen shots of the product, right up front, with illustrative text about what it does would be very helpful. A short video showcasing the major features would be a great addition.
Here's the page of a small company that makes one software product that does a specific thing. I think they have done a very good job at the tasks and principles that I just outlined:
https://binarynights.com
I think this would make your web page more clear to consumers and potentially increase sales.
Brian.
I fully agree with all of this. I clicked on the link and knew within seconds about the product. I think basically copying what they did would be a huge improvement.
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First suggestion:
Make your main web page a product brief. Tell the potential customer, right up front, what the product does. Having multiple screen shots of the product, right up front, with illustrative text about what it does would be very helpful. A short video showcasing the major features would be a great addition.
Here's the page of a small company that makes one software product that does a specific thing. I think they have done a very good job at the tasks and principles that I just outlined:
https://binarynights.com
I think this would make your web page more clear to consumers and potentially increase sales.
Brian.
That website uses a technique which is very common for product descriptions these days. Rather than have links to descriptions of product features, it lists them in one long screen, with some details about each feature. It is a quick view into the main features of the products. It is much easier to scroll through that list and read the features/advantages than to clink on a link and then go back to the main page to click on another link. Fewer clicks is better. Brief descriptions of features like Audio, Video, Images, Home Theater, Database, Customizable would give the reader a quick overview of the strengths of the products. The current site has some of that feature, but the descriptions are too short and you need to click to get any details. And, the details are pretty dense reading.
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OK. How about this then?
Executive Summary and Bold Statement
JRiver Media Center 30 is the best solution available for organizing and playing digital media. Period. If you own any previous version, you can upgrade at a discount now. If you don't, well, just download it and try it and judge for yourself.
Long Winded Story With More Bold Statements. Feel Free to Re-post.
How did a little company you never heard of become a leader in the digital media space?
Little old JRiver isn't a Silicon Valley startup fueled with VC afterburner cash. It's not a game changer, paradigm shape shifter flashy company. Its offices have been poorly lit, dense rabbit warrens with poor heat and no AC, and hollow core doors on top of old file cabinets for desks. The company was more than 30 years old when it bought its first (used) Aeron chair. The boss wanted one.
By the way, if you're shaking your head, try a Google search for audiophile software or HTPC software. or DLNA Server JRiver will be there, on the first page.
So how did we acquire a leadership position in an important part of the digital galaxy? The old fashioned way. We earned it! And we did it in Minnesota, the American Arctic, with programmers who love Winter and who know what oofdah means, and that a sled isn't a kid's toy. Hot dish for dinner?
Seven guys, mostly from near the Canadian border, guys who can paddle upstream for years, even decades if that's what it takes, and do it in duct tape wrapped chairs.
The secret ingredient is an enthusiastic band of customers who helped them find their way through a morass of standards, devices, protocols, codecs, and just plain alphabet soup stew. Their customers knew what they wanted, knew how to build it and JRiver listened and learned. And broke things. And fixed them. And kept paddling for 25 years, in spite of being frequently excluded from major companies' walled gardens. LIke mice dancing with elephants, JRiver had to watch their step and get by with crumbs.
Day after day, the JGuys walked to work uphill both ways with the snow flying sideways. Real men, not quiche eaters.
These guys never doubted that they were doing something important, even noble. Building a digital media world their customers imagined. One that would play anything, anytime, anywhere.
At the center is a single piece of software that has been worked and re-worked countless times, with hooks and extensions that allows customers the freedom to move from OS to OS, from device to device, from protocol to protocol. Supported by API's that customers or developers can use to connect with the JRiver engine.
JRiver began with TCP/IP and Ethernet in the very early days of the Internet, when modems screamed at 300 baud. They built significant parts of it before bigger companies noticed. So a digital world with hubs and spokes as far as the eye could see is a natural idea. They only had to build it. Thirty five years later, they've done it.
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I love quiche.
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Add links to
Panel JRemote/JRemote2 on the Download page, and some screenshots+info on the main pages (or subsection). Without going into the forums you can hardly tell they even exist.
PS: The current layout is 10 years old :)
https://web.archive.org/web/20120929083310/http://www.jriver.com/
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The site (server) could offer a feature to redirect to any user's Panel:
http ://jriver.com/panel/<AccessKey>
This would just return a 302 (redirect) pointing to the last known IP address for that key (http ://<ipaddress>:52199/panel), or 404 for non-existing keys. This would make external access to Panel much easier for users, as they wouldn't need any other DynDNS service.
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(I think Jim replied here (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,134417.msg931141.html#msg931141) with this link (https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=what+is+jriver+panel))
Well played Jim ;D
The 302 redirect would still be a nice addition since it would allow creating a direct shortcut/favorite. Since you already have the feature on your website, it should be easy to do.
EDIT: this in fact already exists, seems undocumented? My google-fu failed me again :)
https ://wr.jriver.com/libraryserver/connect?key=<yourAccessKey>
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We're talking about changes to the site. Please make any suggestions you can. What works? What doesn't?
Thanks.
If I may add.
In addition to thinking and discussing what the website should be...
Also keep in mind what it should not be.
imho, The Last Thing I would want to see the website turn into is some manner of funneling people to buy MC.
imho, MC is the reason why people visit the site. Educate those people who visit here.
The quality of MC should sell itself. So, no need to push that aspect.
In other words, don't turn this site into a late night infomercial.
MC can speak for itself.
My $0.02. Nothing more, nothing less.
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I’m not sure as a user I have used the website much at all. I came to JRiver because of word of mouth. The forum is awesome and invaluable. The website should be updated to a modern appearance similar to what has been mentioned above.
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We're talking about changes to the site. Please make any suggestions you can. What works? What doesn't?
Thanks.
My advice is: You don't need to do it all by yourself. You don't have to be the one to figure out what (not) to do.
Hire a good designer / UX researcher and plan a focussed / strategic iterative design phase. It really helps to have an inventory of what people expect to see (user research), what others do (benchmarking) and what works and what doesn't (good, bad and best practises, or a competitive research, or a trend analyses), before working on the information architecture of the website. This will pay off in the long run!
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You want a somewhat blunt piece of advice?
Leave *well* alone....
I find most redesigns, especially at the minute tend to sacrafice function for the ever changing form.
Sure, some content could probably do with updating, changing a picture here and there, but other than that, it's funtional, and has worked for many years.
JRiver is still here and (presumably) making enough to pay your bills, hence there's nothing fundamentally wrong.
Dark modes are IMHO obnoxious, but some people like them.
Same thing with 'mobile friendly' websites- I'd much rather have the desktop version with the full content and scroll.
Basically, remember that your userbase isn't the average grandma browsing Facebook, but tends to be power users with massive libraries.
Hiring a modern UX designer will inevitably target the majority, at the expense of some of your target userbase.
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I disagree. He / she should be fired on the spot if the work is at the expense of the targeted audience. UCD/HCD is his/her job.
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Sure, some content could probably do with updating, changing a picture here and there, but other than that, it's funtional, and has worked for many years.
I could not disagree more. The web main web site very poorly communicates the greatness of JRiver MC. It appears to be yet another weirdo "music player" that tries to do a lot but really isn't that great. There's no indication of the sophistication and history of MC.
All of the important information is far too "hidden". A redesign would almost certainly yield more customers trying MC, which (almost mathematically) leads to more sales. If you want more sales, a better web site will yield that.
Brian.
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It's easy to speculate and expensive to find out if the speculation is correct.
Here's what people told us about why they bought, in answer to "How did you find us?"
Friend 97
Forum 37
Internet 114
Audio 47
Web 43
Google or Search 81
Use... 45
Everywhere 1
Online 17
Youtube 18
I hear voices 1
Various manufacturers 10
Recommend 10
Bob Brose 1
I think you could summarize it as:
Friends, forum, Internet chatter, and searches.
I wish more people heard voices.
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The problem with these questions is that its people that already bought. Interesting would be those that didn't because they found the website and thought it looked dated, quelching initial interest.
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And I agree with leezer3 that the site works well and has kept the doors open at JRiver for a long time. It functions well. Yes, it could be improved, but I'm really skeptical that a redesign would yield more sales.
I have more than a little experience with good ideas that lost lots of money. Many of them were mine.
Specific suggestions on how to improve what we've got would be very welcome.
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Started another related thread:
Who is the JRiver Customer? (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,134469.0.html)
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For comparison's sake, I just took a look at the home pages of two Internet giants: Google and Apple.
Google is minimalist and has been so for their entire life. The definitive static site.
Apple is dreamy, flashy in a very cool Apple way. Not a lot of information, lots of movement.
I use Google many times every day and I never give the site a second thought.
I find Apple's approach pompous and hard to use. Try scrolling back to something you saw go by.
I guess the point is that either approach can work if it fits your market image.
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What's wrong with looks old? Mona Lisa, Eiffel Tower, Pyramids, etc.
I don't want to be in the fashion business. We build tools.
We're never going to do well selling to people with short attention spans. That's not our market.
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Netflix, in my opinion, has a bad home page. It's hard to find what you've been watching and you're presented with mostly Netflix content, presumably for economic reasons.
They also have a horrible search. It doesn't have the decency to tell you that it doesn't have what you've searched for.
But, hey, they're Netflix, and we're not.
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Netflix, in my opinion, has a bad home page. ...
I'll be kind.
That is an understatement.
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OK, my first usual comment for improving a message forum board and website is to make it easy, while within the message forum, to go to the main website, i.e. the home page.
But that seems to have been thought of and accomplished here. I just need to scroll up to the top of a page and click on the JRiver media Center thing.
Cool. That is a rarity among the many fora I visit.
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First suggestion: ...
Yep, yep, yep.
I've referred friends to this site's home page and the feedback I got was along the lines of, but what does it do?
The home page is an important landing spot. The main function should be along the lines of, ~what can Media Center do to help you enjoy the media you enjoy?~
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Jim, you clearly think your web site is good enough as it is. I disagree. But I won't offer any more suggestions about this, as I don't think it's productive.
I love your product.
Brian.
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Jim, you clearly think your web site is good enough as it is. ...
If so, why does this thread exist?
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Jim, you clearly think your web site is good enough as it is.
Brian, don't give up. I said this above.
Yes, it could be improved ...
Specific suggestions on how to improve what we've got would be very welcome.
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I told this same story in another thread about how I first came to JRiver, but will repeat it here as it relates directly to Jim's question.
A friend strenuously recommended I try MC. I thought great, I have been auditioning a number of music players, why not check this one out as well. This was around 2006/2007. The friend had emailed me a link, I clicked on it and went to the site. My immediate reaction was... "Wow… This site looks really dated. Is this site legitimate? Maybe my friend's link was really old and I'm actually at their discontinued site? Are they still in business?". This was 15 years ago, and the site has not really changed in any significant way since.
This obviously is not the initial reaction you want from anyone being exposed to JRiver for the very first time. And if I had the reaction (and I am personally aware of half a dozen others who had the same reaction), how many potential new users over the last 20 years also had that reaction? Thousands upon thousands I have no doubt. In spite of my reservations, I went ahead and downloaded the trial (well it was actually the free Media Jukebox at the time), and indeed, it offered features that I really liked. My question is though, how many people had the same reaction I did, and went away without ever trying it. Or... how many of those went away, came back 2, 5, 10 years later, and saw the website had not been updated/improved, and thought "yeah, not ever gonna buy that program".
The 1st impression is everything. Site visitors turned off enough will ultimately go with a different media player. If you blow that first crack at a new customer, the chances of turning them into an MC user at some point in the future are extremely low. I can already hear some current MC users objecting saying "hey, I used to use program such and such and hated it, and I switched to JRiver". I can only say that users who switch represent the tiniest of minorities. It is simply human nature - once you have invested time in, and are comfortable with, a given program (media player or otherwise), you're not likely to switch, even if you have problems with it.
I'm not a webmaster, so I won't pretend I know specifically what it is you should do to improve your site. You should hire somebody who does that for a living. They will ask you the right questions, and then create a site that is beautiful, modern, and of course, functional.
And please remember - the super hard-core users who frequent the forum on a daily/weekly basis are NOT your entire user base. In fact, they are but a tiny slice. According to your forum stats, there are 57,000+ users. I would guess 1,000 of those are heavy forum users. And how many people who own your program never even bother to register to use the forum? I'm speculating, but I gotta think that's another 10 or 20,000 - maybe even substantially higher. Either way, there is a significant chunk of media player users, including the vast majority who use MC, who simply use it for basic music organization/tagging, to play music and look good while doing it. They're not writing expressions, not creating complex smartlist driven views, not looking for the most cutting edge DSP tools... none of that. Updating JRiver's website with those sorts of users in mind would be enormously beneficial.
I desperately hope you are not insulted and thereby completely put off by this post. You know I love this program Jim… You know I have put thousands of hours of my own time into creating skins. I desperately would love to see MC grow and grow and grow. That is my motivation - to offer some brutal honesty in the hope that it leads to changes that improve J River's bottom line, which will in-turn help MC continue to be best in class.
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What's wrong with looks old? Mona Lisa, Eiffel Tower, Pyramids, etc.
I don't want to be in the fashion business. We build tools.
We're never going to do well selling to people with short attention spans. That's not our market.
Looking old and unchanging for a media player looks like a pretty bad option to me, implies stale and stagnant to me
Do you actually think your website needs to improve?
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I'd be happy to change it if it is a real improvement.
I'm not keen to change it for the sake of change or to follow someone's idea of "modern". We could waste a lot of time for no real gain.
Most of the discussion has been short on specific suggestions.
I said this earlier, but the purpose of the home page is to give an overview of what JRiver does, and to direct people to what they are in interested in: audio, video, TV, photos, network, forum, DevZone. That's essential, in my opinion.
With that in mind, take another look at the home page again and make specific suggestions that you think would improve it.
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I'm still in agreement with everything said. The Mona Lisa looks timeless. The MC website looks abandoned. To compare the two is ridiculous. An example of a modern looking site that wasn't the extremes of Google, Apple or Netflix was given. It is a good place to start.
All of MC is a weird mix of really dated and really cutting edge.
Here is one very specific recommendation for the current website: The way the boxes (I don't know the technical name) are stacked with Network directly over Forum it looks like it is the Network Forum. Continuing on it looks like Home Theater (HTPC) Wiki etc.
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Let me say it another way.
Form follows function (Mies van der Rohe).
We're not in the fashion business.
Specific suggestions are welcome.
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Me personally as an old user don't need the web site at all. I just browse the forum. For new user the situation is completely different. As a new user I would check out the web site to see what this program offers. Now I don't know how many new customers modernized web site (doesn't mean bloated or hard to find anything) would actually secure but for me it is kind of show case of the product what you are building and what you are proud of.
For example I would advert the actual features the program has with real life examples. There are no mentions or images of Alexa support or about HDR/DV support, Spotlight or many other stuff you have been recently working with. No mentions of multi OS support or mobile remotes or where to get them. Images on web site are possibly century old and many links go to wiki pages. It's fine but I wonder how many of new user will actually open those links and how technical it gets there.
And when I say "no mentions" I'm sure the information is there somewhere behind the links but I think you should really promote all the cool stuff you have created so the other than forum members would also see them :)
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... for me it is kind of show case of the product what you are building and what you are proud of.
For example I would advert the actual features the program has with real life examples. There are no mentions or images of Alexa support or about HDR/DV support, Spotlight or many other stuff you have been recently working with.
Our problem is that, if we went into detail like that, it would be a very long list, and I think it would overwhelm many new users.
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When people say "modern", what do you (anyone) think is meant?
I notice that some sites like Apple have a long scrolling home page. We tried to avoid that, but maybe that's what's expected now.
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- simpler main landing page (not much to remove from there, just reorganize). Advertise your main products and target platforms. A single large picture of a guy listening to an high-end audio system with MC logo somewhere goes a long way to convey quality
- add a Features page, broken down into expandable sections.
- add a comparison of Editions/platform solutions, and perhaps MC vs Competition page
- separate the Purchase and the Download pages
- add a screenshots page for each product, or add more screenshots where relevant in other pages. Prospective buyers have short attention span, and eye candy is more important than text.
- add pages for the Remotes and Android/Mac/Linux versions, and whatever other products you have. Large-format paintings should perhaps go in your other site ;)
- add some testimonials (tacky, but effective)
- no links into the wiki/forum (or as limited as possible, except of course main menu links). It's jarring.
- modern look/UI/layout. You may not like it, but this is for potential future customers, not existing ones.
Taking a look at the roon/plex/kodi webpages you can clearly see the contrast to MC. Whether you like it or not, that is what's expected nowadays.
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Screenshots and videos requested: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,134473.0.html
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Our problem is that, if we went into detail like that, it would be a very long list, and I think it would overwhelm many new users.
Features are the single most important thing for a new buyer (after price). Just break it out into multiple pages if needed: "supports over 50 audio formats and 25 video formats" -> then click it to expand to the list, or to open a new page.
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Features are the single most important thing for a new buyer (after price).
I'm not sure that's true. Power users want features, but many people want quality and simplicity.
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I'm not sure that's true. Power users want features, but many people want quality and simplicity.
That's one of the features.
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When people say "modern", what do you (anyone) think is meant?
In the context of this thread, I would interpret "modern" to mean highly effective (that is certainly what I meant by it in my previous post).
I notice that some sites like Apple have a long scrolling home page. We tried to avoid that, but maybe that's what's expected now.
Yes… "modern" also means reflecting what is currently expected. Using the latest website design elements and being highly effective are not mutually exclusive. Done well, both aspects naturally go hand-in-hand.
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That's one of the features.
Exactly.
Though in reality I don't think MC is that easy for a beginner. Perhaps one section of the site could be a series of youtube tutorial videos. Or maybe that's a totally different endeavor.
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Exactly.
Though in reality I don't think MC is that easy for a beginner. Perhaps one section of the site could be a series of youtube tutorial videos. Or maybe that's a totally different endeavor.
I've thought about making a beginners board.
One thing that's overlooked is that people who don't have problems usually find no need to post. Many of those are beginners.
We also have problems with first time users trying to run before they walk.
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I understand why keeping everything on one page that doesn't need scrolling appeals to you Jim and it makes sense but I think scrolling a webpage is expected these days.
Another specific recommendation I can make is where is says Download have links to each OS. That will advertise that there are different versions.
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Add auto-resizing and width scaling for lines of text and image boxes, so that the current website content automatically scales to different widths in a browser.
Currently jriver.com content is either too small to see, or truncated while zoomed in, while using narrow width browsers (most mobile browsers for example). Also you can see this when you snap a desktop browser left or right, text doesn't scale and adjust to browser width on smaller laptop screens.
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Same is true for the forum. It works well on full screen desktop browsers, but on mobile I'm always pinching and zooming and scrolling left and right to read.
Adding width scaling would automatically make your website more attractive, without any changes to content.