INTERACT FORUM
Windows => Third Party Plug-ins, Programs, and Skins => Topic started by: UnknownID on May 09, 2005, 11:38:16 am
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(http://www.echo-digitaldesign.com/media_center/forum/paradigm_preview.png)
I have been a big fan of the "Blade" skin for a while, so I wanted to start off by giving credit to my inspiration. Additionally, I use WinAmp5 for my streaming audio and I really enjoy its compressed look.
This skin, Paradigm (pérrә ‘dīm), is something I have been working on for a long time (about 3 months off and on). And though I am not finished yet, I wanted to know how desirable this would be to other MC users.
I originally wasn’t going to release this at all (just hold on to it for my own use), but a friend of mine said that I should... or at lest setup a poll and find out. So, that is what I am doing.
Features:
- Compressed View (shown) and Expanded/Detailed View (not shown)
- Dynamic themes - 2 build in themes (maybe more later): Fire (Red/Black not shown) and Ice (Blue/White shown)
- 900px x 25px dimensions (I am thinking about adding a feature to have different size widths available for different resolutions)
- Customizable display in Compressed View (Select ALBUM, ARTIST, NAME, etc. and the order in which they appear)
- Button essentials; only basic buttons for a simple, clean look
When voting please feel free to comment. I will be happy to answer any questions if I can :)
NOTE: Please view the entire thread before voting since I will be adding updated images as I go.
UnknownID
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I originally wasn’t going to release this at all (just hold on to it for my own use), but a friend of mine said that I should... or at lest setup a poll and find out. So, that is what I am doing.
I could rather use Windows Media Skin for my own use ;)
its lovely, good work ;)
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Looks Good 8)
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Blade is my favorit mini skin at the moment.
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I like it! Bring it on!
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Where's the playlist button?
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I like the looks but it does look bigger than Blade. I use No Frills (with some minor modifications from me) just because I want the smallest possible footprint. I just tried Blade and it's not bad but still long. Yours could be shortened by the horizontal bar to the left of the name. Not sure if that's volume or position. I usually never touch my volume because I use Replay Gain and if I can hit the Pause button if I need to mute. Position doesn't mean anything as long as the time counter is there.
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Thank you for your votes, comments, and questions! I am very happy to see the number of votes for "Yes"; more then I expected. Now that it has been about a day I wanted to respond to a few of the questions :)
Where's the playlist button?
I didn't want one. I think the Standard View interface is so much better. From there I can not only see what is coming up next, but also make changes and interact with library. I only really care about the current track and time especially since I do a lot of web media streaming
I like the looks but it does look bigger than Blade. I use No Frills (with some minor modifications from me) just because I want the smallest possible footprint. I just tried Blade and it's not bad but still long. Yours could be shortened by the horizontal bar to the left of the name. Not sure if that's volume or position. I usually never touch my volume because I use Replay Gain and if I can hit the Pause button if I need to mute. Position doesn't mean anything as long as the time counter is there.
I designed this to be on a 1024x768 secondary monitor (I use a 1600x1200x32 as my primary and 1024x768x32 as my secondary), but I do understand the value of what you use. The slider you are referring to is for volume (probably should indicate that better). I actually never touch the thing, it just tells me how loud the volume is before I start playing something. I have a Logitech media keyboard without the iTouch software installed. When the software was installed the volume wheel on the keyboard showed an OSD when it was being changed, but once I uninstalled the software I lost the OSD (You can read why I removed the software here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=27507.0). I liked the OSD so much that I wanted to at least show it on my skin. Same as you, I never use the position slider.
I like what dcwebman had to say about the smallest footprint. I am going to leave this thread open for a while longer for comments, but since there are at least a few people who like it, I think I am going to make this available to everyone. It probably won't visually change too much before I release version 1, but I have started a list of things I want to add, modify, and enhance for future versions (version 2 will have the size changer including a "smallest footprint" option and probably a show/hide feature for the volume slider). I am planning to work on this regularly and provide updated versions.
In the mean time, please continue to comment. Thank you all so much!
UnknownID
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That is a slick looking skin, and I would personally use it. Nice clean lines, and not too small. Looking forward to you sharing it.
PeterS
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Looks nice but I had to vote no because you assumed I couldn't pronounce paradigm. ;)
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Looks great, one general question though. If this is a skin for playingnow, could it be possible to have rating buttons on it like blade?
Skin looks slick, can't wait to have it on my desktop!!
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(http://www.echo-digitaldesign.com/media_center/forum/blade.png)
Looks great, one general question though. If this is a skin for playingnow, could it be possible to have rating buttons on it like blade?
I'm sorry, I do not have any idea what you are talking about. Above is the version of Blade that I have. Also, this is a Mini View skin, not a playing now (track info) template. Rating buttons ? ? ?
UnknownID
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Hi - I voted 'not sure' for a couple of reasons: 1, I don't use mini skins at the moment and I didn't know if you were thinking of releasing a mega skin; 2, design-wise I think the image at the top of the post looks like a pretty slick and accomplished skin, but I don't know if I'd use it simply because I tend to go for skins with a lusher atmosphere - my current favourite to date has been thunderstorm... But as far as the look you're going for goes, I think it's very elegant.
One suggestion - the play control icons could use a bit more... something. Articulation, maybe; or more sleek proportions - they're a bit clunky compared to the rest of the skin.
BTW
I'm sorry, I do not have any idea what you are talking about.
S/He's talking about the Playing Now plugin by Rhino Banga (it's not a track info template)
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I voted 'not sure' for a couple of reasons: 1, I don't use mini skins...
That's ok. I asked if you would use it, not if you thought it was a good or bad skin ;D
(I think it is a good skin, so that is why I phrased my question that way I did)
1, I don't use mini skins at the moment and I didn't know if you were thinking of releasing a mega skin
Yes, I am; but one thing at a time ;D
2, design-wise I think the image at the top of the post looks like a pretty slick and accomplished skin, but I don't know if I'd use it simply because I tend to go for skins with a lusher atmosphere - my current favourite to date has been thunderstorm... But as far as the look you're going for goes, I think it's very elegant.
Thanks!
One suggestion - the play control icons could use a bit more... something. Articulation, maybe; or more sleek proportions - they're a bit clunky compared to the rest of the skin.
I fully agree. I am just taking a break from these for now. I have been tweaking these endlessly to make them integrate with the skin, but now I have tired eyes and am focusing my attention to other things regarding the skin.
UnknownID
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(http://www.echo-digitaldesign.com/media_center/forum/paradigm_themes_ice.png)
(http://www.echo-digitaldesign.com/media_center/forum/paradigm_themes_fire.png)
I finally got the theme switcher working ;D ;D ;D
Now, if I can just make it save the current state...
UnknownID
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I just looked through all the available mini skins and I think that yours has the nicest look. That said, I voted 'no" because I don't use mini skins.
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I just looked through all the available mini skins and I think that yours has the nicest look. That said, I voted 'no" because I don't use mini skins.
hmmm... maybe I should have asked: "If you use mini skins, would you use this skin?". Regardless, your vote is fair ::)
UnknownID
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I like the look. A Mega skin with the same look would be great too if that's what you meant.
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I like and will use it. :D
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(http://www.echo-digitaldesign.com/mc_forum/blade.png)
I'm sorry, I do not have any idea what you are talking about. Above is the version of Blade that I have. Also, this is a Mini View skin, not a playing now (track info) template. Rating buttons ? ? ?
UnknownID
(http://members.cox.net/b1ackcat3/untitled2.PNG)
That's what I was wondering about, whether it had those rating buttons, because I didn't know whether this skin was for the playingnow plugin or a miniskin for MC itself. But, I think I got my answer since I figured out this is a miniskin and miniskins don't have rating functions on them. That said, I'm still looking forward to using the skin. Thanks
//PCE
Bobby
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(http://www.echo-digitaldesign.com/mc_forum/paradigm_themes_ice.png)
(http://www.echo-digitaldesign.com/mc_forum/paradigm_themes_fire.png)
I finally got the theme switcher working ;D ;D ;D
Now, if I can just make it save the current state...
UnknownID
This is coming along very nice.... I love the black one.... Will match the Thunderstorm skin well.
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Can we expect any skin??
Much work to do??
I'm wating......
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Can we expect any skin??
Much work to do??
I'm wating......
I still want to include a number of things that aren’t working yet. I may have to drop a few features for the first release.
Though I am a web site designer and have had a lot of experience with JavaScript, I am having some difficulties using the development documentation and understanding how MC's JavaScript works. You can see some of the issues I am working on as other topics on this board.
I will be posting another screen shot in the next few days.
When will I release the skin? Soon, I hope :)
UnknownID
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You don't have to rush, take your time!
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Can anybody tell me the default Standard View skins that come with MC?
UnknownID
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Can anybody tell me the default Standard View skins that come with MC?
UnknownID
Pixos
Z
Green Eyes
Blue Steel
Aruba
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Pixos
Z
Green Eyes
Blue Steel
Aruba
Thanks! Is Thunderstorm not a default skin anymore?
UnknownID
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iam not sure!
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Yes it is... It is the MC10 skin
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Yes it is... It is the MC10 skin
Is it in the install for MC11 as well?
UnknownID
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Chiefter--
A lot of us are waiting on your skin, dude! With MC11 I go Aruba/Negative, and your latest rev looks to be shaping up quite nice. Question: if I hover the cursor over the current track field, will I get the drop down list of all the tracks in the playlist? Could be crucial. I would use this skin "always on top", float it at the bottom edge, and use the "hover over" function to scroll through the list. Make it so!
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Love this and will use it..when you get it finished!
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Is it in the install for MC11 as well?
UnknownID
Yes... The only MC/JRiver skin that is not in the install is BZero.
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Chiefter--
A lot of us are waiting on your skin, dude! With MC11 I go Aruba/Negative, and your latest rev looks to be shaping up quite nice. Question: if I hover the cursor over the current track field, will I get the drop down list of all the tracks in the playlist? Could be crucial. I would use this skin "always on top", float it at the bottom edge, and use the "hover over" function to scroll through the list. Make it so!
I appreciate your excitement, but I have to use the JRiver policy for calling something finished:
It will be done when it is done
I am working on this as much as I can; I have a real PAYING job too ya know ;)
Anyway, I was not intending on doing a hover over function to see a playlist, but if you could show me a skin (I would need to download the actual Mini View skin to review the code) that uses this feature you desire I will try to implement it in Paradigm (if it is not too complex).
UnknownID
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I will be posting another screen shot in the next few days.
Sorry, I don't have anything new to post. I have been really busy with other stuff in preparation for a trip next week; I will be away from my computer all next week, so don't expect anything new for a while :)
I appreciate everyone's feed back and patients on this!
UnknownID
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Have a nice trip.
We can wait. I think it will be nice when it's finished.
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Very slick.
I can imagine a mega version might not work as well, since the shape is so much part of its character.
Tab
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Close to a month since the last news. Anything coming soon? :)
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Close to a month since the last news. Anything coming soon? :)
Yes actually :)
I finally generated some new business last week, so I can continue working on Paradigm in my free time.
UnknownID
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Very nice! I will be waiting.
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Hi,
We're ALL waiting! :P
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Chiefter--
A lot of us are waiting on your skin, dude! With MC11 I go Aruba/Negative, and your latest rev looks to be shaping up quite nice. Question: if I hover the cursor over the current track field, will I get the drop down list of all the tracks in the playlist? Could be crucial. I would use this skin "always on top", float it at the bottom edge, and use the "hover over" function to scroll through the list. Make it so!
I agree that the "hover over" function would be great. That would clinch it for becoming my preferred mini-skin. Have you figured out a way to incorporate it? Samples look nice.
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Chiefter--
A lot of us are waiting on your skin, dude! With MC11 I go Aruba/Negative, and your latest rev looks to be shaping up quite nice. Question: if I hover the cursor over the current track field, will I get the drop down list of all the tracks in the playlist? Could be crucial. I would use this skin "always on top", float it at the bottom edge, and use the "hover over" function to scroll through the list. Make it so!
I agree that the "hover over" function would be great. That would clinch it for becoming my preferred mini-skin. Have you figured out a way to incorporate it? Samples look nice.
I don't think that the exact feature is possible in a Mini Skin (i.e. hover over), but since I have been unable to get the cover art to show up the way I want, the "enhanced mode" where I show more info about a particular track has changed so that the next few tracks in a playlist can be viewed. It will be toggled by a button (the small one to the right of the blue display area; the larger one is for options).
I am sill very busy with other stuff, but I am trying to get at least an "in process" screen shot up showing some features by the end of the week ::) ;D ;D
UnknownID
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FWIW, the No Frills mini skin has a nice P button that when clicked shows the entire playlist in a scrollable box with the ability to change to another song. That would be more functional than a hover playlist.
Jeff
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FWIW, the No Frills mini skin has a nice P button that when clicked shows the entire playlist in a scrollable box with the ability to change to another song. That would be more functional than a hover playlist.
Jeff
Thanks for the tip. I will check that out :)
I am just about done with the next part. I will have some new screens to show within an hour or two ;D
UnknownID
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NEW FEATURE: CUSTOMIZABLE WINDOW POSITION
Ok, here are the latest screens ;D
This is the first look at the "options" window. I am putting all customizable options here sans Themes. The screens below show the first option I have finished. The functionality is there, just not the final design ;)
(http://www.echo-digitaldesign.com/media_center/forum/paradigm1_main.jpg)
This is the almost final look of the main body of Paradigm.
(http://www.echo-digitaldesign.com/media_center/forum/paradigm1_window_above.jpg)
You can have windows show above the skin for those of you who want MC low.
(http://www.echo-digitaldesign.com/media_center/forum/paradigm1_window_below.jpg)
You can have windows show above the skin for those of you who want MC high.
This feature applies to all windows that show: Options Window, Theme Switcher, + Playlist Display.
...and yes, all the features in the options section will work with the Fire Theme ;D ;D ;D
Thank you all for being patient with me :)
UnknownID
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Lookin mighty nice!!
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I hate Skins, but your "Slim-Line" (I Like That Name) Skin Looks Really Good.
And If I Could Just Have Basic Controls, Along With Docking, Would Be Really Cool (I would Dock It On The Top Of My Screen)
Hover Over "N" For Notes, "L" For Lyrics Etc.... Would Show The Data
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Looking most excellent! Can't wait for the release! ;D
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Looks great! I'll use it as soon as it's available.
Like how you created the high/low option. I'll probably use it low, with a playlist showing above. I'm not sure I understand what will be displayed in the options window. Personally I would like to see the playlist on the right side, but not as wide as the whole options window is now. The square gray area from "Display" to "About" would seem to be a good size for the playlist display.
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I like the idea that you can have it go above or below--I would use it low, also. What kind of info will be in this window?
I would vote for dressing the options window a little heavier in the "paradigm" look. Currently the borders and face plate look more "normal" than the blade section. I would vote thicker borders and a more "sculpted" look to the info section, similar to the main body of the "blade".
What happened to the "titanium / charcoal" coloring you showed in your reply #14? I like the brushed aluminum just fine, but the darker one seemed to break new ground. Can we choose either / or?
I appreciate all the hard work going into it, and I can see real progress going on. Pace yourself. It really looks cool. Just the right combo of function and simpllicity.
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Looks great! I'll use it as soon as it's available.
Like how you created the high/low option. I'll probably use it low, with a playlist showing above. I'm not sure I understand what will be displayed in the options window. Personally I would like to see the playlist on the right side, but not as wide as the whole options window is now. The square gray area from "Display" to "About" would seem to be a good size for the playlist display.
I like the idea that you can have it go above or below--I would use it low, also. What kind of info will be in this window?
I would vote for dressing the options window a little heavier in the "paradigm" look. Currently the borders and face plate look more "normal" than the blade section. I would vote thicker borders and a more "sculpted" look to the info section, similar to the main body of the "blade".
What happened to the "titanium / charcoal" coloring you showed in your reply #14? I like the brushed aluminum just fine, but the darker one seemed to break new ground. Can we choose either / or?
I appreciate all the hard work going into it, and I can see real progress going on. Pace yourself. It really looks cool. Just the right combo of function and simpllicity.
The options window will contain ways of changing Paradigm. The big one I am working on for the initial release is called "Display" which will allow the user to change the text that is displayed for the track. For example you could set it up to be: "NAME by ARTIST" or... "NAME on ALBUM by ARTIST" or... "ARTIST - NAME", I am hoping to be able to have many / individualized permutations. It will not be as easy to use as MC Standard View (aka by typing in what you want) since I cannot create fields in a Mini View skin, but it should be sufficient :)
My goal for the look of the options part is to remain as neutral as possible; since this will not change with each Theme (just the boarder coloring) it needs to be able to go along with any Theme. As for what goes here, I have a Roadmap for the development of Paradigm and I am leaving some space open for future options to be added in v1.1 and v2.0, but for now it will have the "About" page with info about Paradigm, the "Window" page with changes windows to show above or below Paradigm, and the "Display" option which I described above.
For clarification purposes: The fire Theme (as jgreen called it Titanium / Charcoal) still exists and will be accessible trough the dot on the left most part of Paradigm. These are changeable on-the-fly and are both included in the Skin. I am not showing that screen anymore since the layout and functionality for options will be the same regardless of Theme.
I hope I answered all of your questions ;D ;D ;D
UnknownID
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Shout out to UnknownID.
It's been a month since the last post. Anything happening? ::)
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Shout out to UnknownID.
It's been a month since the last post. Anything happening? ::)
Wow, has it really been a month already???
Oh yes! Lots of stuff. My wife and I took a trip to San Diego, we got a second kitten, and I have been working on launching a business intranet for one of my clients... but I am sure you were referring to Paradigm ;)
Well, the latest is that I am just about done ;D ;D ;D
I have been testing my code rigorously and trying to fix little problems with the variables; I have two small issues left. Also, I decided to drop the customizable display since I wasn't liking how it was functioning (I will have to re-think how this works and I will try again for v1.1).
Now I want to do one small round of beta testing (I know it sounds silly, but I wrote some unusual code that has been causing the delay in getting this released and I want to make sure it is working correctly).
So... If you are interested in helping me get all the kinks out of Paradigm, PM me and I will select 3-5 people; I would really appreciate it if someone from JRiver would be involved. The idea is beta testing, but the thing will be a completed version ready for release (obviously, if there is a problem I will fix it before I release).
Very soon now...
UnknownID
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BullishDad is the only one who responded to my request for help, so we been doing a little PMing about some known issues.
Here is what was written to me:
UnknownID,
First of all, let me congratulate you on putting together a beautiful Mini-skin. It is sleek and functional without being complicated. I like both colors, but will probably use Ice more often.
As far as the issues you asked me to check out;
1. Sticking Switcher. I haven't noticed this happening. Maybe I don't understand exactly how or when it is sticking. However, I have gone to ice to fire and back without problems. Same thing for About/Window.
2. Fifth item in Playlist. Yes, this happens to me too. Must click on the time.
3. Extra - . Haven't seen this, although I've only scrolled thru 20 tracks or so.
Based on how I would like to use the skin, I have a few comments/ideas that I hope you will find helpful.
A little background. I have Dell 2005FPW widescreen monitor. I use mini skins when I am browsing the internet and playing music simultaneously.
I use a window about 2/3 of the monitor's width for browsing. With some mini-skins, I place the mini-skin to the right of the IE window. No overlapping.
With Paradigm, I need to reduce the IE window height and keep Paradigm below. This works OK due to Paradigm's short height, but if the total width took up 1/3 of the screen, then it could be side by side.
I realize you are very far along and would probably not want to mess with the total width of the main bar at this point. However, I'd be happier with a smaller volume slider and Track Info area so that the width could be reduced.
I would like to see the Playlist window reduced in width too. Actually the current width of the Playlist window is about the 1/3 of the screen that I'd like to see for the main info bar. If I am going to
leave the Playlist visible, it would be better if it took up less space in the bottom right window. Maybe 1/2 of its current width. I don't mind if text gets truncated.
You mentioned that you are still working on some of the visual elements. I think the Playlist window could use some color, which you may have been planning to do anyway.
Please contact me if you have any questions. I will still work with Paradigm and keep you informed of any bugs I notice or suggestions that I may have.
BullishDad
BullishDad, thank you very much for you comments :)
1. Sticky Switcher
This is a quote from a different Thread I submitted that explains the steps to reproduce.
This is kind of hard to explain...
I have a series of buttons setup on my Mini View skin that work together as like radio buttons (can only click on one in the series). In other words, one button is always "disabled" (state number 4) and clicking on a different button in the series disables itself and enables (state number 1) any disabled button.
These steps cause the problem:
1. I go from the Standard View to the Mini View; one of the buttons is already disabled.
2. I click on a different button which causes initially disabled button to have about a 2 second delay before it changes to normal.
3. Any time after that clicking the buttons changes the state instantly; it is just the initial time.
I checked this on MC10 and MC11 and had the same problem. I think it has to do with the skinning engine since I have tried a multitude of different methods of coding to try to fix this. Through these tests, I have isolated the problem to the button states and the initial change to Mini View. I eliminated all other code associated with the button change and just had the buttons change each others state.
I was informed by JR that they couldn't see the problem either and that I should check with other people when I share Paradigm. Could you tell me your OS, if you are using Java (Control Panel > Java), and if the version of each?
2. Fifth Item
Well, at least this one is not just me. Maybe someone from JR will want check into this one now :)
3. Extra '-'
The extra "-" shows up when a user is playing a track and the track either ends or is stopped. The only place is shows up is in the main display bar (Blue for Ice or Red for Fire). Do you have for Stop "Fade Out" or "Immediate"? I am using a fade, which might be causing the problem.
Other Comments
Yes, I am very far along and want to have Paradigm done for next week. I have already had a variety of comments wishing it was a little bit to a lot smaller in width which I will not be doing for this release, but I am already planning a v1.1 and v2.0 of the skin which will incorporate size changes. The point release will also feature the volume slider on a window toggled on and off by a button.
I know the playlist could use some color, but I want it to remain neutral because it needs to work with all Themes (yes, v1.1 will include about 5 additional themes). I didn't code for any of the windows (Theme Switcher, Play List, + Options) to be Theme-able (word?), only the boarder changes; that will happen in 2.0 since I think it is necessary and I may poke around with it for 1.1. This was an attempt to not have to make every window and button for each theme, but this trade off seems to not be paying off.
The items I will finish graphically will be the Up/Down buttons for the Playlist window, the About Page, and the buttons to Show windows above/below paradigm.
The invitation for trying out Paradigm and reporting problems is still open to anyone who wants to help. Just PM me if you are interested.
Meanwhile BullishDad and I will continue to work on the last few issues for this version.
UnknownID
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Paradigm has been running on my system for a week now and I haven't found any problems other than the ones you mentioned. I'm in love with the skin and am sure you'll receive a tremendous response once it's released. Both schemes look great, but I tend to use Ice the most because it matches my vs.
1. Sticking switcher - The switcher has never behaved in a way that has confused or annoyed me. I'm not exactly clear about the issue you brought up, but I wouldn't say there's any kind of problem with the switcher. (I'm using Xp sp2 w/ java Version 1.5.0 (build 1.5.0_02-b09))
2. I can't click on track 5. I have to either click on the time, scroll the playlist or wait for the track to automatically advance. Once one of those happens, everything works fine.
3. The dash. Whenever I stop the player (after playing a track) I see "- Media Center 11." This doesn't bother me at all, and I wouldn't have noticed it if you didn't point it out. My Stop is set to "immediate."
Once again, congratulations on a great skin. Regarding the visual comments by bullishdad and others, I, too, would like the skin to be much narrower(word?). I agree that the playlist would be more appealing if its background were the same color as the track display (blue/red), but it's not an issue because my playlist is always closed. My favorite visual element would probably be the different button states for the playback controls. I love that subtle gradient. The option to have windows appear on top of or below the skin is great, as I change the miniview's placement depending on what machine I'm using.
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Please see:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=29545.msg203671#msg203671
UnknownID