When I get around pages such as this one (http://www.internet-haganah.us/hmedia/28jan06-denmark/index.html) I get rather annoyed. I hope it's fake. Otherwise it's really bad taste!That page is in arabic, any idea as to what is being said ?
That page is in arabic, any idea as to what is being said ?No. The picture-text is quite English, though.
Should we also propagate Jerry Falwell's "Mohammed was a terrorist" comment in the name of promoting free speech?I'll defend anyone's right to be an idiot.
Offensive idiocy only promotes the notion of the other.
I'll defend anyone's right to be an idiot.Surely. There are restrictions of speech in every country, but in general one should be able to say what you want. Afterward people may use the court.
Muslims are outraged! No, it's not about Muslims shooting school children in the back. It's about cartoons of Mohammed. Outraged! What a shame! Would I dare to show one of these cartoons on Nealz Nuze? Well ... there's one way to find out.
Should we also propagate Jerry Falwell's "Mohammed was a terrorist" comment in the name of promoting free speech?If the Shoe Fits, But I would not have said it
If you think you know better than someone else, I think that the proof of that is whether you use that knowledge to make a situation better or worse. In this context, did the caricatures of Mohammed serve such a purpose? They created a lot of bad feeling: 'tens of thousands of protesters', according to the article linked to in JimH's post. It takes an awful lot to get tens of thousands of people protesting on the streets of Dublin - it rarely happens.
I don't support censorship, and I don't believe in cowing before religious fervour. However, we all employ self-censorship in our lives in the interest of good relations and other motivations - it's usually called 'tact', 'sensitivity' or 'understanding', and I think that the same principle could apply to political/philosophical relations.
There are also times when you have to have to take a stand/position and tough it out; times when you have to be brutally honest with people for their own good as well as your own, and in that context I think that there could be times when lampooning religious fanaticism is appropriate, and you just have to weather the storm. The only criteria are: that the goal is to improve the situation for everyone, including the people you are antagonising, and that you have genuine cause to believe that your actions actually can achieve that goal
The Muslim Religion degrades Women and there rights As Part Of The Human Race.It's called Islam and in general it doesn't "degrades Women". As far as I understand it's partly a survival from the nomad-society which Islam builts upon. Back in the days around 600-700 (Christian calendar system) when Muhammed was around, Islam was more liberal concerning Women's right than Christianity. Unfortunatly they haven't had the same cultural development as Christians experienced in Europe from the Renecanse and onwards.
No. The picture-text is quite English, though.Oops, i see now. usually browse without images and activex off
edit: i.e. you have to scroll down, if you didn't notice.
What should be in the headlines is "Ferry With 1,300 Aboard Sinks in Red Sea" (This is almost the same amount of people as was on the titanic) No matter what the Religion of the passengers.
It will be interesting to see how it sank and if it was a terrorist.
Should we also propagate Jerry Falwell's "Mohammed was a terrorist" comment in the name of promoting free speech?
Offensive idiocy only serves to promote the notion of the other.
Each religionYou're painting with a pretty broad brush here! :)
uses a brainwashing technique which passes down through each
generation, and then once brainwashed each person is too close minded
to see that they are being closed minded. Convinced that they're
right because their parents + friends told them the "truth", and
it's written down in a book.
You're painting with a pretty broad brush here! :)
-=Tim=-
Maybe you should start a campaign with guns outside the British Embassy demanding Tony Blair gives an apology ;)
, but nobody has any right to force their views on anyone else.
Well, I'll wager that no "mainstream" publication in the west will ever print such cartoons again.
I were to go to their country and try to set up a christian church I'd be arrested and probably imprisoned (or worse).
Why do they care what is printed in a magazine? :) Freedom of speech never hurt anyone - bullies with guns have.
On the other hand, the Islam nations are hypocritical, if I were to go to their country and try to set up a christian church I'd be arrested and probably imprisoned (or worse)
I'm sure somebody said something similar when Time Magazine was forced to give an apology in 2001 when they had published Muhammad-drawings:). They will come back, don't you worry...Naaah, first it took 4 years. Second that was an inadvertant display. Lesson learned and not repeated.
And I'd thank the US State Department NOT to criticize the cartoons on MY behalf.Yes, please.
A long, but interesting read:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007760
Just a small comment, Egypt although prodominently muslim is not in the middle east, is much more western, has massive influence over many years due to tourism (hey, well the pyramids are _fairly_ impressive).Old school Churches exist in the middle east (Kuwait, S.Arabia & the gulf states), they won't be very numerous as these countries are predominantly muslim. Islam does not forbid practice of other religons by their followers. Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Palestine have had churches since time began.
I will ask why if Islam is so tolerent there have been no rejection of terrorism/terrorists.There was pretty much universal condemnation for 9/11 amongst arab govts, cept for maybe libya(?), Iraq & Iran. I don't think any condone terrorist activities at all, since they have been on the receiving end way before 9/11 even happened. Most of those attacks were aimed at the current govt. whom the perps alleged were propped up by the west. Many of these govts. are brutal and ineffective in providing jobs to youths. So a lot seek solace in religon, the more ignorant end up as cannon fodder for the more extreme. Many developing countries have ineffectual govts, which is a major reason that religon isgrowing the fastest there. Any perceived slights against this, result in the usual flag burning, demonstrations, threats etc.
You can't say it is the work of a few radicals when the group at large either approves or is silent.
Because what they have been asking is for western goverments to punish/speak out/prevent
more 'offensive' images.
I'd ask the same of them.
So, would it not be better to leave it at that, stop reprinting these cartoons and try to calm the situation?Which is what the debate and indeed the cartoons themselves are about.
I imagine that others find it difficult to speak out against such manipulation of the poor and weak. It would take courage to oppose this.
and to admit it, this happens here very much (sometimes)... some people pretend they are too religous who can decide what god wants.. and take in young poor, non well religous and fool people and persuade them that putting a bomb in their belt and destroying theirselves (like the jeep in sharm incident) will give them a fast ride to paradise (and some cash for the poor family too)..
Early Friday, Palestinian militants threw a bomb at a French cultural center in Gaza City, and many Palestinians began boycotting European goods, especially those from Denmark.LOL.....Riiiiiight, Gaza is sooooo representative of the whole Arab and by extension muslim world !! ...a little strip about 360 square miles.
"Whoever defames our prophet should be executed," said Ismail Hassan, 37, a tailor who marched through the pouring rain along with hundreds of others in the West Bank city of Ramallah.
"Bin Laden our beloved, Denmark must be blown up," protesters in Ramallah chanted.
In mosques throughout Palestinian cities, clerics condemned the cartoons. An imam at the Omari Mosque in Gaza City told 9,000 worshippers that those behind the drawings should have their heads cut off.
"If they want a war of religions, we are ready," Hassan Sharaf, an imam in Nablus, said in his sermon.
About 10,000 demonstrators, including gunmen from the Islamic militant group Hamas firing in the air, marched through Gaza City to the Palestinian legislature, where they climbed on the roof, waving green Hamas banners.
"We are ready to redeem you with our souls and our blood our beloved prophet," they chanted. "Down, Down Denmark."
Although most Muslims are not terrorists,
most terrorists are Muslims.
I must say I find posting that cartoon on this site to be of poor taste and another example ignorance and of the cultural devide between Christians and Muslims.I don't think the issue is taste. It's freedom of expression.
According to Islam it is forbidden to create or publish likenesses of the Prophet Mohamed. It is sacreligeous to do so. That is what the Muslims are all in an uproar about.
Although most Muslims are not terrorists,
most terrorists are Muslims.
Would you agree? If so, is it due to socio economic reasons, religion, both?
...I encourage consulting the Terrorism Knowledge Base (http://www.tkb.org) for answers to some of those questions. Things that you might find particularly interesting are:
Although most Muslims are not terrorists,
most terrorists are Muslims.
Would you agree? If so, is it due to socio economic reasons, religion, both?
Print cartoon in your (free) country, watch your embassy burn in another.So, basically what you are suggesting is that except for a handful of bad actors in the West Bank and Gaza, all is well in the greater Islamic world.
I'm having probs swallowing this one.
LOL.....Riiiiiight, Gaza is sooooo representative of the whole Arab and by extension muslim world !! ...a little strip about 360 square miles.
After Israel left, Hamas, known extremist group just won the local election. Hamas controls Gaza. So ...umm yeah..shooting off a few rounds is how they take care of business...
Give em some time, when the locals realise thats all they can do, they just might get kicked out. The terrorist funding will dry up, go elsewhere where it can create more effective propaganda.
So, basically what you are suggesting is that except for a handful of bad actors in the West Bank and Gaza, all is well in the greater Islamic world.You have highlighted the flash points between muslims & the west and portray them as charateristic of the whole...anecdotal. There may be more examples but my point still stands.
I think you are reaching looking for a way to make this acceptable.
Those are the examples, I'm sure there are many more in the world.
Maybe like the Embassies burning in Syria.
Please let me know what reasons you find to excuse that.
P.S. If you think that the Isreal/Palestine questions will be solved soon, I'd like to talk with you about Amway...Heh, when did i say this ?
This is one of the things I can't understand. According to Danish law, it's NOT forbidden to create or publish likenesses of Mohammed. So they can, according to their law, do that if they like, good or bad taste.Apparently not in their country, with the flag burning. I guess that's the most non-violent way they have to get the message across. It shows exactly how (some) feel about this issue. If i recall flag burning laws came into effect (post 70s(?) to counter this form of protest.
But the ones who burn the Danish flag? In many countries THAT is against the law.
This is one of the things I can't understand. According to Danish law, it's NOT forbidden to create or publish likenesses of Mohammed. So they can, according to their law, do that if they like, good or bad taste.
But the ones who burn the Danish flag? In many countries THAT is against the law. If it is in Denmark, should they start burning down the Syrian embassy or threaten muslims all over the world?
I don't see this clearly through Islam eyes, forgive me. Please tell me why it is ok to do violent acts against people, and in this case, people from other countries than Denmark who has nothing to do with this dispute, because of this violation against muslim law.
Is the muslim laws above all other laws, including those old stone plates Moses ran around with? Is it as simple as this? And that some elements of the muslim community acts as world police?
Could someone please clarify?
PS. Sorry if I use the words Islam and Muslim wrong, english is not my native language. DS.
BTW, like Michael Dukakis, I'm a "card carrying member of the American Civil Liberties Union". I don't like every cause they choose, but I'd rather err on the side of supporting civil liberties.
And I'm not a Christian. I'm probably a Druid.
Kindly do not try to offer one off examples as to why this is not representitive of Islam. All accounts are that it is.Eh ?
None turn in terrorists.Slight problem, they already blew themselves up.
I don't think this is about law, it's about respect for other cultures. Just because the law says you can, doesn't mean you have to go out and insult a whole people.