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More => Old Versions => Media Center 11 (Development Ended) => Topic started by: Mr ChriZ on March 08, 2006, 06:33:57 pm

Title: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Mr ChriZ on March 08, 2006, 06:33:57 pm
Just downloaded 141 here =)
The layered album covers are great  :)
(Still love to see this in Theatre View)
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: datdude on March 08, 2006, 07:25:15 pm
I see why you are going with this, but the screen now seems cluttered and is visually straining versus single album covers listed. I think  a better way would be to either show stacked covers from top to bottom within the tile vs spiraled, or some sort of 3d angulated look that rotates when hovered over. 

The main problem is that there is not enough space between the tiles and the covers don't stand out as much.

I understand that you want to differentiate between multiple and single albums but I think visually there are better ways.

It also takes way too long to switch views even after they have been viewed previously.

Could this be an option to turn off?
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: park on March 08, 2006, 08:12:37 pm
I like the new tiles. They dont look so square and self contained now.
I dont like the grey gradient bg for the titles though. It's kind of ugly.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: datdude on March 08, 2006, 08:16:55 pm
The album art is smaller now by quite a bit :(
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Matt on March 08, 2006, 08:17:05 pm
I like the new tiles. They dont look so square and self contained now.
I dont like the grey gradient bg for the titles though. It's kind of ugly.


Send a better one to matt at jriver dot com and we'll consider using it.  There may even be a free t-shirt for the winner.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: wombat66 on March 08, 2006, 10:37:27 pm
I see why you are going with this, but the screen now seems cluttered and is visually straining versus single album covers listed. I think  a better way would be to either show stacked covers from top to bottom within the tile vs spiraled, or some sort of 3d angulated look that rotates when hovered over. 

The main problem is that there is not enough space between the tiles and the covers don't stand out as much.

I understand that you want to differentiate between multiple and single albums but I think visually there are better ways.

It also takes way too long to switch views even after they have been viewed previously.

Could this be an option to turn off?

I agree about the spiral approach looking cluttered.
A stacked look probably would look nicer.

Perhaps something like this?
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6dd29b3127cce978b62a2795200000016108EZtmbFuzZG)

Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: GHammer on March 09, 2006, 02:19:34 am
I see why you are going with this, but the screen now seems cluttered and is visually straining versus single album covers listed. I think  a better way would be to either show stacked covers from top to bottom within the tile vs spiraled, or some sort of 3d angulated look that rotates when hovered over. 


I like it this way. Stacked will eventually run out of room with many albums per artist.
Plus, IMO, stacked just doesn't look right and the example image here is at least as 'cluttered'. The movement when they cycle would be odd too compared to the spiral.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: marko on March 09, 2006, 03:04:51 am
My 1st impression was that the spiral effect was too 'busy' for the eyes, but that quickly changed when I realised that they are actually a little informative regarding just how many albums are in each stack, relative to each other. I like this.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Alex B on March 09, 2006, 06:10:14 am
These girls don't like the increased white space around them. They don't like the smaller pictures. They like big and tight.

Also, they don't need spirals or stacks. They go their separate ways.

(http://www.adart.fi/mc/pix/agirlssmall.jpg) (http://www.adart.fi/mc/pix/agirlsbig.jpg)
Click to enlarge the image. (http://www.adart.fi/mc/pix/agirlsbig.jpg)

- the tiles are set to "Large".


EDIT   Here is an older screenshot of medium-sized tiles: whygo.jpg (http://www.adart.pp.fi/mc/pix/whygo.jpg).
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: GHammer on March 09, 2006, 07:26:04 am
The girls seem to like it here. Said something about finally changing their look or something...

(http://ghammer.net/temp/covers.jpg)
Full size:
http://ghammer.net/temp/fs-covers.jpg
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: dcwebman on March 09, 2006, 08:15:09 am
OK, my 2 cents. I love the idea but not sure about the spiral look. I think it's informative that there is more than one album but don't necessarily need to know exactly how many. Perhaps a cascade look like in most programs set to a maximum number that would fit might look better.

I can't wait to try this it at home on the few artists that I have many albums of to see what happens to those spirals when they hit the top left edge.  :)
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Alex B on March 09, 2006, 08:27:48 am
Actually, I think the spiral stack is a great idea for [Artist] or [Album Artist (auto)] based view.

It is not so great for [Album] or my calculated [Album Artist (auto)] - [Album] view because no stacks exist (unless the individual tracks have various cover art images) and there is a lot of wasted space.

As always, a user selectable option would probably make everybody happy.

I captured some additional 140 vs. 141 screenshots, but I don't have time to process them now. I'll try to add them later.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: jgreen on March 09, 2006, 08:35:50 am
I love this idea, including the spiral.  At first I thought that cascading tiles would be better, much as wombat suggests.  But at tile size it really wouldn't show up, and would quickly march off the page with large stacks.

I can see that it might appear cluttered in album views, while not necessarily adding much info, but in images I believe it adds a lot.  Most of us have our album info committed to memory by now, so we're less apt to explore via album art, IMO.  But with images, seeing whether a stack is populated is helpful.  I would make a couple of suggestions:

1.  Currently mouse hover-over sets the stack in motion.  Good.  But left-click should stop the motion on any selected album/image.

2.  An image (or album, etc) selected via this method should be individually drag-and-dropable.  Currently the whole stack goes into PN, which is fine.  But what if cntrl-left-click would drag an individual album selected via #1?
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: park on March 09, 2006, 08:38:10 am
Why is it that some of the tiles never show album art, even if the files have album art.  Hovering the mouse over it doesnt seem to do anyhting either. But sometimes, leaving the view and then coming back seems to make some of the tiles find the art.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: LonWar on March 09, 2006, 12:07:40 pm
I like the new look.... While you guys are changing so,e of the looks.... How about bringing back the lil coverart that was on all the details lines?
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: RhinoBanga on March 09, 2006, 12:46:19 pm
I don't like it ... it makes the listview cluttered and it looses it's clean lines.   If it stays I hope you're going to provide a way to switch it off?
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Deivit on March 09, 2006, 12:49:53 pm
I like it too. It seems that 5 layers is the maximum that is displayed regardless the number of albums, and I find it OK. I also like how it looks when you have covers of different sizes, such as box sets (see the Elvis display here, there are more than 100 albums).

(http://www.deivit.net/mediacenter/stack1.png)

 Click here for a larger image (http://www.deivit.net/mediacenter/stack.png)



IWhile you guys are changing so,e of the looks....

May I ask you to consider the possibility of removing the squares in thumbnail views?

Thank you.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: LonWar on March 09, 2006, 01:10:46 pm
Don't mean to hijak this thread....

Devit, what Deskbar plugin are you using for MC?

THanks
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: hit_ny on March 09, 2006, 01:21:50 pm
Thx for that pic, now those that are not on the latest & greatest can understnad what this is about.

The spiral idea seems nice, is it faster to display tho, since there will theoretically be fewer pics to display ?

How to cycle albums ?

Does clicking on the ones below bring them to the foreground ?
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Deivit on March 09, 2006, 01:28:54 pm
Don't mean to hijak this thread....

Devit, what Deskbar plugin are you using for MC?

THanks

Hi gamer,

You mean the right deskbar? It's actually a homemade "combination" of google deskbar, Mr. Chriz's Evil Lyrics plug-in and Rhino's Playing Now. I can control the basic playback functions from the MC logo right beside the cover art, rate the song, have the lyrics displayed (even with "karaoke" scrolling effect), receiving breaking news and, at the same time, work with any app using the other 4/5 of the display. Not very fancy, but it works for me   :)
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: marko on March 09, 2006, 02:47:47 pm
I'm not a big fan of 'side bars'. They take up too much screen real estate.

I'm in the market for a widescreen flat panel monitor. maybe then, who knows..
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Dutch Peter on March 09, 2006, 03:19:24 pm
Quote
5. NEW: Library tiles and view header images show many images as a pile of images. (instead of one totally covering the others)

Cool!!
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Matt on March 09, 2006, 05:15:15 pm
Tonight's build has some tweaks from the discussion above.  Thanks everyone.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: lpr on March 09, 2006, 05:53:28 pm
I don't like this new pile of cover thing. It's not that clean and classy, too gimmiky if you ask me.

Can we have the option not use this? please...


Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: park on March 09, 2006, 06:05:31 pm
When scrolling through the album art, the grey title graphic shouldnt be one of the graphics that's scrolled in my opinion.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: JimH on March 09, 2006, 06:06:57 pm

Can we have the option not use this? please...

We'll add that if we decide to keep the new style thumbnails.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Galley on March 09, 2006, 06:22:01 pm
I'm not a big fan of 'side bars'. They take up too much screen real estate.

I'm in the market for a widescreen flat panel monitor. maybe then, who knows..

You know what they say; once you go widescreen, you'll never go back!  ;D
I picked up a 21" Gateway FPD2185W several weeks ago.  1680 x 1050 is sweet!
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Pink Waters on March 09, 2006, 06:22:20 pm
Looks good, but why not by the way you make a slight album cover shadow ?
it would give a great look like this:

(http://www.geocities.com/t_elwakeel/shadowredcovers.JPG)

It will give a great look for the entire library..
rather than this standard look of albums that looks like papers.

edit: it also has a slight black boarder for the albums that works well among the shadows.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: jgreen on March 09, 2006, 06:37:52 pm
Looking at the 11.1.142 stacks, I think the larger size with single albums actually makes things busier.  And I'm not sure whether the randomized stacks is always working, or ever working.  But I really like the stacks, and I think it's a farly well developed idea as it is.  I would like to be able to pick individual albums out of the stack animation.  Since you're going to all this trouble with your stacks, why not make it a way of browsing and queuing?

In the category of things I never thought I'd hear myself say, I think Pink's comment makes sense.  You've already got the panes/details view, so why not go right-brain with this?  You can find something using words, or, you can find something using pictures.  This picture thing is opening new doorways to my library, FWIW.  So dress up the pictures!
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: jgreen on March 09, 2006, 06:48:20 pm
And Marko--
Check out the Samsung flat panel monitors.  I highly recommend them.
--Fastest refresh rate
--Excellent Contrast
--Good brightness.
--Very sharp (almost too sharp).
And cheap (relatively).  Samsung makes the Dell monitors and I believe also the Gateway.  Until Sony/Viewsonic/Phillips come down in cost, you can get two Samsungs for the same price.  Twin monitors!  As Galley says, once you go widescreen you'll never go back, but once you've had twins, well, the world will look forever different.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: park on March 09, 2006, 08:18:40 pm
I'd like to hijack and say again that little iddy biddy tiles in the bottom details list would totally round out the library view. Think about it, you click on a tile in the top list and it filters out the bottom list to show something like the album thumbnails now, but on each thumbnail is a little "files" link. Clicking on that shows you the songs for that album, and hovering in the corner is a little "back" button to take you back to the tiley album thumbnails.

It would be faster than clicking on "files" in the top album view because, as it stands, you have to keep clicking in a level until you can find the album with the tile you want to see the files for.  Or, you have to switch from "album thumbnails view" to "files view" and then scroll through the list to find the song that you want to.
Feasibly, with my suggestion, as long as you can see the album in the bottom list, at any level in the top one, you'd be able to jump to just the songs of that album, for tagging and individual song choices almost instantly.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: datdude on March 09, 2006, 08:26:21 pm
I think adding shadows as Pink Waters suggested is almost necessary since the boxes are not drawn and the separation between the cover is not as clean and does seem a bit busier now.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Mr ChriZ on March 10, 2006, 03:22:52 am
Love Pink Waters Idea!
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Quisp on March 10, 2006, 06:00:10 am
oops, didn't see this thread. I like the idea, but I'm not a fan of the current rotating icon stack. It is too busy, adds noise, is a pretty klutzy illustation and completely screws with the grid. All this and the info it provides isn't that meaningful.

I like the idea of a subtle approach, Pink Waters is on the right track, though I don't know why there couldn't be a subtle ghosted back icon somewhere with the number of albums in the icon. Apple's Aperture does this as does Photoshop Elements.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Pink Waters on March 10, 2006, 06:57:12 am
Maybe narrowing the rotaion of the stacks will solve the busy contrast..

or maybe adding a small rounded boarder in the corner of the covers with the number of sub-albums/covers may be another good idea instead of the stacks ?
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: dcwebman on March 10, 2006, 07:09:26 am
Twin monitors!  As Galley says, once you go widescreen you'll never go back, but once you've had twins, well, the world will look forever different.
Totally agree. I only have two 17" monitors but couldn't ask for more. I'm still living with old habits and like running my programs maximized so with dual monitors you can have 2 maximized at the same time. Dual monitors is the way to go for sure!
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Quisp on March 10, 2006, 09:14:53 am
Below are two examples of what I was thinking about above....

(http://www.glows.com/images/stacks.jpg)
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: GHammer on March 10, 2006, 10:28:35 am
I just need a visual representation of multiple albums.
I'm kinda familar with my collection, if there are 8 and I think 6, oh well.
I don't really need a count of how many albums.
The stack shows me what I need to know.

I did like the old stats for albums though. Liked the old tiny thumbnails too.
Bring those back!
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: RhinoBanga on March 10, 2006, 10:33:36 am
Below are two examples of what I was thinking about above....

(http://www.glows.com/images/stacks.jpg)

The left hand one is ace!
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Quisp on March 10, 2006, 10:40:36 am
I Agree. Personally, I don't need any indication of multiples. I'm not sure what I can do with that information. I'm also very familiar with my collection and it is very large. But if this is something that needs to be indicated visually somehow, I'd want some information besides the fact that I've got more than one album for an artist. The rollover animation did a great job doing that. So basically, if you've got to muddy things up, at least give me two pieces of information instead of one...it takes up the same amount of space.

One other way this would be nice would be the listing of albums. It would be nice to have the number indicator for how many CDs were in a particular album. This is all pretty anal, but then again I guess we could all just be using iTunes.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Quisp on March 10, 2006, 10:41:50 am
The left hand one is ace!

Thanks, that is the one I prefer too, I would think it would be a lot easier to do also...
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: LonWar on March 10, 2006, 12:16:55 pm
The left hand one is ace!

Most definately!
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: sdcoochie8 on March 10, 2006, 01:42:00 pm
I generally appreciate all the features within media center and it still is by far the best but I think this feature has no useful purpose and really is unattractive. The old method was more than adequate. There have been a couple of good ideas in reference to this styling such as the number box (posted by Quisp) for multiples to indicate the number of albums within an artist grouping. If this feature stays it might be nice to be able to turn it off otherwise I feel that shadows or different colours is not the answer to improve the look of this feature.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Fex on March 10, 2006, 02:08:47 pm
Below are two examples of what I was thinking about above....

(http://www.glows.com/images/stacks.jpg)

You have my voice. Better than anything 'til now.

Fex
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Mr ChriZ on March 10, 2006, 02:45:10 pm
There's three things I'd question with Quisp's idea, what is a new user is going to think of it?
If you'd not followed this discussion would it be obvious?
What would happen when you click it?  It looks clickable.
Also how about when there's more than 9 covers.  Your not going to
fit multiple digits in there.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: jgreen on March 10, 2006, 02:55:38 pm
What ChriZ said. 
I think the Quisp idea is great looking and very clean-looking.  But it doesn't look clickable, in the way the spiral does, or cascading tiles. 

Some folks are saying what's the point, and I think what either idea really needs is more that you can accomplish by selecting/clicking the stack.  I'd love to browse/queue albums via the stack animation (insert broken record here).
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Quisp on March 10, 2006, 03:29:14 pm
That was sort of the idea behind putting it over the album cover, no clicking questions there, but I'm not crazy about putting icons over the thumbnail unless the quality was much better.

As for the size, er, this isn't a solution, just a mockup, I would assume anything created would be scalable. The image was just an example, not an exhaustive proof of concept. The icon could just as easily change to a cd (or round frame) when showing the albums in order to indicate how many CDs an album has...I think people would get it pretty quickly, it isn't like MC comes prepopulated with random music to weed through. I think people would grasp the information when they see the number 1 for Boston and 4 for Chicago, assuming they are looking at their own collection.

Lots of possibilities.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Mr ChriZ on March 10, 2006, 05:50:57 pm
143 looks great  ;D
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Quisp on March 10, 2006, 07:02:07 pm
Drop shadows are OK. Spiral albums look hideous. I've never been a fan of mystery meat navigation so it will take a while to get used to the fading in menu. I'm always over shooting the hot spot, so I now have to wave my magic cursor and then reposition it in order to use the menu. I can live with that, but I hope we can turn the spiral off, it would be a great idea if there weren't a grid, but there is.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Galley on March 10, 2006, 07:08:20 pm
I tried out the spiral album feature last night, and I really don't care for it.  I prefer Quisps's idea of an icon on the artwork.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: datdude on March 10, 2006, 07:19:23 pm
Looking good now!

Couple of things that will make the current incarnation better (hopefully):

1) The minimum space between tiles should be increased just a bit

2) The fade menu should take a bit longer to fade in since when I want to click on the tile to show the files a bottom, I have accidentally clicked on the play button after it faded in too fast.

3) The view menu should auto open when hovered over like the menus a the top of the library.  We no longer have to worry about these opening up all over when browsing since they aren't actually there anymore.  This will save many clicks.  :)
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: jgreen on March 10, 2006, 07:48:14 pm
Echoing Sir Dude on this one--Looking Good!

1.  Agree

2.  ??

3.  Great Idea!  99.9% of the time that's where we're headed.  Make it so!

I think there's a lot to the Quisp approach, neat and tidy, but I like this one better.  With the drop shadows, it looks like a stack of LPs, for those of us who remember vinyl (it didn't used to be only for Barcoloungers, Mr. ChriZ!).

One note--drop shadows don't reverse in "Negative" effect, so they disappear.  I was hoping to see a "drop highlight" when using Aruba/negative.  Is this fixable?

Slapping on the broken record:  wouldn't it be cool if we could seek/enqueue using the stack animation?  Whoa, Nellie!



Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: datdude on March 10, 2006, 08:05:11 pm
Echoing Sir Dude on this one--Looking Good!

1.  Agree

2.  ??

3.  Great Idea!  99.9% of the time that's where we're headed.  Make it so!

I think there's a lot to the Quisp approach, neat and tidy, but I like this one better.  With the drop shadows, it looks like a stack of LPs, for those of us who remember vinyl (it didn't used to be only for Barcoloungers, Mr. ChriZ!).

One note--drop shadows don't reverse in "Negative" effect, so they disappear.  I was hoping to see a "drop highlight" when using Aruba/negative.  Is this fixable?

Slapping on the broken record:  wouldn't it be cool if we could seek/enqueue using the stack animation?  Whoa, Nellie!



J,

When you hover over a tile, the menu fades in too quickly.  What do you think?

Any background that is dark does not show the 'shadow', maybe show the light color that is reversed?

It is also still a performance hit when switching from say album vs. dates or artist I think becuase of the stacked view drawings.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Quisp on March 10, 2006, 09:09:30 pm
Menu fades in too quickly!?! You really want to wait even longer each and every time you want to view an artists albums? Remember the timing will be the same well after the coolness factor wares off.

As for the drop shadows, they aren't indicating anything as they are on all art regardless of how many albums one may have for a particular artist. They are just there to add a bit of dimension and make the album art pop from the background.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: datdude on March 10, 2006, 09:32:10 pm
I probably will get used to it, but I have clicked on the play button by accident a few times.  I'm just too click happy I guess.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: NoCodeUK on March 11, 2006, 05:44:12 am
I think it looks okay with the spiral stacks.  The thing I don;t likeis the fact that if there is only 1 album it appears a lot bigger than when there is a stack.  It looks very messy.  It would be better if all thumbnails appeared the same size regardless of whether they were in a stcak.  Maybe by increasing space in between?

Adam
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Mr ChriZ on March 11, 2006, 05:53:18 am
I think it looks okay with the spiral stacks.  The thing I don;t likeis the fact that if there is only 1 album it appears a lot bigger than when there is a stack.  It looks very messy.  It would be better if all thumbnails appeared the same size regardless of whether they were in a stcak.  Maybe by increasing space in between?

Adam

They did that in 141 and everyone complained!
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Alex B on March 11, 2006, 08:18:45 am
When the images are not square the effect is a bit odd. I am not sure if I like it or not.

(http://www.adart.fi/mc/pix/yearss.jpg)
Click to enlarge. (http://www.adart.fi/mc/temp/yearsb.jpg)
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Pink Waters on March 11, 2006, 03:31:44 pm
Quote
1) The minimum space between tiles should be increased just a bit

I think more than a bit,..
Maybe if we have a space between the covers horizontally that equals the space between them vertically or a little bit more, will give more balanced look..
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: datdude on March 11, 2006, 03:35:22 pm
I think more than a bit,..
Maybe if we have a space between the covers horizontally that equals the space between them vertically or a little bit more, will give more balanced look..


That would only work for those that are  stacked and those that aren't, would still be too close together.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Pink Waters on March 11, 2006, 04:49:42 pm
I have also some other suggestion,..

Now with the thumbnails shadowed and looks great but there is something that is fading away all the pleasure in the grid view, which is clicking a thumbnail album for example does not only select(gray) the thumbnail or the cover,.. it selects a wider rectangular area within the grid,... which looks for me that the album covers does not makes sense in look,..

simply I mean,.. when we click an album cover I want to see the physical cover that i selected it being selected,.. not a surrounding area which for me makes that whole picture missing things to end up with a good sense in look and feel..
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: datdude on March 11, 2006, 04:56:51 pm
You mean it sould only 'highlite' the cover and not the the tile name?
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Pink Waters on March 11, 2006, 05:11:50 pm
yep,.. Should highlight the coverart only not a rectangular wide surrounded area (which is the grid)
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: datdude on March 11, 2006, 07:01:53 pm
Since we are on the whole cover art thing, I think when you actually get to the album level in the library, the cover should rotate the album inserts that we have in our album folders.  That would be uber cool.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Pink Waters on March 11, 2006, 09:33:41 pm
I think I've got the missing point that makes the album views looks sometimes busy,.

It is that the new stacks have smaller size of coverarts than a standard coverart without stacks.

the fix?
I think that the album covers (thumbnails) size should be the same size of the top coverart of the stacks so all coverarts seem to be the same size
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: park on March 13, 2006, 07:39:38 am
I think i realise now why mc keeps throwing up those ugly grey thumbnails with the field titles in them.
MC automatically chooses a random thumbnail on startup doesnt it. maybe if it chooses an album etc. which doesnt have album art attached to it, then it uses the defualt grey tile instead. and when scrolling through the art by hovering over the tile i think the same thing is happening.

Could we have it so that mc never shows the grey title tile on the front tile, unless none of the files within it contain album art.

Yours hoping...
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Alex B on March 13, 2006, 07:59:53 am
Since we are on the whole cover art thing, I think when you actually get to the album level in the library, the cover should rotate the album inserts that we have in our album folders.  That would be uber cool.

If you mean additional cover art images (back, booklet etc) MC already rotates the image thumbnails if they are imported in the library, tagged with the correct artist & album tags and included in the view scheme besides the music files.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: park on March 13, 2006, 08:14:14 am
doesnt anybody else think that little "view files" links that would appear when you hover over the album thumbnails in the bottom list would reduce the amount of clicking you do by like a million percent?
it would also obviously have to jump the tiles in the top view to the level of that album too. but that could be even more powerful if it automatically set the trail of breadcrumbs to take you to that level, so that you could backwards browse your way back up through the library fields.


On a seperate note, how about making the background of the bottom list a half shade darker, or lighter, than that of the tiles list. at the moment the only thing distinguishing my album thumbnails from the tiles is a thin blue line, and the size of thumbnails.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: datdude on March 13, 2006, 07:48:33 pm
If you mean additional cover art images (back, booklet etc) MC already rotates the image thumbnails if they are imported in the library, tagged with the correct artist & album tags and included in the view scheme besides the music files.

Well that sort of works.  Problem is that I don't want to actually see the images in the list view and the cover art is not the first to be displayed?

Maybe a way to solve this would be to have the files at bottom filter these out with a customize current view setting to only 'display' ticked file types?
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Pink Waters on March 14, 2006, 01:20:13 am
If you reduced the album covers size in the three size options to the top coverart on stacks size it will balance the look, like this:

(http://www.geocities.com/t_elwakeel/stacksize.JPG)
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Alex B on March 14, 2006, 03:08:04 am
Well that sort of works.  Problem is that I don't want to actually see the images in the list view and the cover art is not the first to be displayed?

Maybe a way to solve this would be to have the files at bottom filter these out with a customize current view setting to only 'display' ticked file types?

The only reason I have several album images imported is MC's ability to play them in a slideshow during music playback. Besides tagging the image files I use my "All Media" view scheme for sending the music files together with image files to Playing Now.

At other times I use audio only view schemes as well.

Here are the screenshots from the "sorting problem" thread:

A library view:

(http://www.adart.fi/mc/pix/boy.jpg)

Playing now after a right-click>play on the album image stack (the sorting issue is resolved now):

(http://www.adart.fi/mc/pix/boy_pn.jpg)

The album images play in a slide show. The slideshow can be paused and the images can be enlarged for reading the texts. Often I set MC's display to TV out and display the images on the big screen.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: dcwebman on March 14, 2006, 07:46:40 am
In small tiles, there is a View link along with a down arrow. At first I thought these were two different things. The space is not a big deal like at the top where there is just one link like Artists but when displayed next to more than one link, it looks like it might bring a drop down menu in addition to having the View link to do something else.

Can you please get rid of the space between the two so that one can tell that View and the down arrow are the same thing?
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: mountainfair on March 14, 2006, 09:28:23 pm
I like quisps idea with the number of albums displayed below the thumbnail. 

This gives more specific info than the spirals, in which you cant tell exactly how many albums there are, and cant really see anything anyway unless the images are different aspect ratios, in which case it looks strange.

I like the dropshadows.

Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: datdude on March 14, 2006, 09:34:20 pm
I like quisps idea with the number of albums displayed below the thumbnail. 

This gives more specific info than the spirals, in which you cant tell exactly how many albums there are, and cant really see anything anyway unless the images are different aspect ratios, in which case it looks strange.

I like the dropshadows.

quisp!, quisp!, quisp!, quisp!
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: mountainfair on March 14, 2006, 09:36:43 pm
Since we are on the whole cover art thing, I think when you actually get to the album level in the library, the cover should rotate the album inserts that we have in our album folders.  That would be uber cool.

I would like this to happen in the 'now playing' track info screen.  But, I have hundreds of files with images of not only the cover art but also the back, disk, liner, etc.  I dont want to have to go thru and tag all of this and import it.  I just want it to automatically show up in the now playking track info and rotate.   

Maybe I should start a new thread...
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Alex B on March 15, 2006, 04:45:01 am
I would like to ask everyone to try this and post comments here:

From the "Details Vs Cover Art" thread:
The "Both" choice is missing from the poll.

I use both at the same time (inside MC).

My calculated "Album Artist (Auto) / Album" tile view works perfectly fine on the top and the bottom shows about 40 fields in the details mode.

When I click one of the top thumbnails MC shows instantly the track details of the selected album only.

One of my Artist/Albums view schemes shows about 2200 separate full albums on the top. When the new system was introduced the calculated view was very slow, but after Matt did some hexifying  :)  and other magical tricks it became as fast as the other views. It has become my preferred way to browse albums.

Usually I have not decided what artist I like to listen to before browsing the albums. I have found browsing all albums side by side much better than first selecting an artist and then browsing the albums from the selected artist only.

IMHO, the "Album Artist (auto) - Album" field should be one of the default library fields and it should be one of the default audio scheme view items.

My instructions for making the calculated field & view scheme:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=30774.msg212216#msg212216

In that example I have included all media types, but naturally the view can be audio only as well. (I use them both.)
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: mountainfair on March 15, 2006, 05:22:23 am
OK,

I like the idea, but cant get it to work at all...

maybe I am missing something.

If I set up a "Album Artist (Auto) / Album" tile view,

I can either set:

panes and album thumbnails, in which case I get all of the albums side by side, but no details at the bottom (just panes at the top, no option for details at the bottom).

OR

Albums or Artists instead of panes, in which case I can choose to have the details at the bottom, but not all of the albums side by side (well, I guess if I choose albums, I get all of the albums side by side, but not sorted by artist and no option to customize current view)



That would be great - the ability to show all albums side by side, sorted by artist, with customizable current view. 

In other words, why cant we have all of the Options all the time regardless of panes or no panes, instead of some options for each?
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Alex B on March 15, 2006, 05:35:41 am
Quote
That would be great

It is great!

I am not sure why it does not work for you. Did you make the new "Artist/Album" calculated library field first? Did you add "Artist/Album" to your view items list (in edit view scheme)? Did you enable "Show Files At Botton" in the top right corner Options drop-down list?

I'll try to gather the relevant screenshots (or make some new) and post step-by-step instructions here. (I am a bit busy now with other things so that is not going happen immediately.)
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: mountainfair on March 15, 2006, 05:52:50 am
OK,

I got it to work after all - thanks for the great screenshots.

This view is great - could be the best.

loads plenty fast.

1. Any tracks that dont have an artist tag show up at the beginning - again, maybe these could be shown sorted in with the rest alphabetically.



2. Any Albums with multiple artists show up at the beginning with (multiple artists).  Would be great if these could go at the end instead.  NO BETTER YET - I want to be able to have the multiple artist albums show up ignoring the (multiple artist) and mixed into the artist list by album (so Beach Boys is followed by Best of Trance (V/A), is followed by Bob Marley, with all albums displayed).

This would be much better than the scrolling multiple album covers.

I tried the panes setting, and changed the sort values, and have been able to get all of the multiple artist albums to show up alphabetically entirely BEFORE all of the single artist albums.  Closer, but not quite it.  Why cant we write strings to define sorting?


I then tried entering this string into the viewscheme advanced expression (editing the view):

[Album Artist (auto) - Album]-[Album Artist (auto)]=(Multiple Artists)

and several variations.  and several variations in the calculated fields.

No luck.

3. now we get 'play' 'artist' 'album' 'files' accross the bottom as text.  Artists and albums dont seem to do anything worthwhile.

Otherwise, this is the ideal view.

******

Wouldnt this be better accomplished by allowing all Options regardless of panes or no panes?  In fact, why isnt panes one of the options in the options list instead of off by itself? 


Why not show files at bottom with panes?  Make the mouseover a customize current view option?  Allow customize current view always?  Or allow any other combination?

This is where the possibilities really get good.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Alex B on March 15, 2006, 06:23:03 am
1. Any tracks that dont have an artist tag show up at the beginning - annoying

I have excluded lone tracks, tracks that contain incomplete properties and incomplete albums from my "Album Artist (auto) / Album" view schemes. I use other view schemes for them.

Quote
2. Any Albums with multiple artists show up at the beginning with (multiple artists).  Would be great if these could go at the end instead.  NO BETTER YET - I want to be able to have the multiple artist albums show up ignoring the (multiple artist) and mixed into the artist list by album (so Beach Boys is followed by Best of Trance (V/A), is followed by Bob Marley, with all albums displayed).

This would be much better than the scrolling multiple album covers.

I retag my "multiple artists" albums. Please check this thread for details: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=32357.0 - and especially this post: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=32357.msg222066#msg222066

Quote
3. now we get 'play' 'artist' 'album' 'files' accross the bottom as text.  Artists and albums dont seem to do anything worthwhile.

Keep in mind that the view scheme items can consist of any library fields, like Genre, Date, Comment, custom fields etc. You can also include only the Artist/Album item and remove the others. The Files button is not removable, but it may be useful if the album contains a lot of tracks because it hides the tiles.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: mountainfair on March 15, 2006, 06:55:37 am
Thanks for the reply.

Played with excluding things - much better.  Thanks.

I looked at your 'Album Artist' post and liked what you had to offer.  Are you saving these as tags, or just updating the MC fields?  Pros and cons here?  I dont think I have any 'Album Artist' tags.  Maybe I should?  Will other apps / players support this?  Obviously need to learn more here...

Are there programs out there or a way that I can automatically have all of the multiple artist albums tagged with an album artist field that is the album name, and all of the single artist albums tagged with the album artist that is the artist?  Is this possible with MC?

Thanks - got the view scheme items sorted out.

Strange - in the panes view, if there is no artist I dont get the default image, just a blank white tile.


Still lobbying for more control in all Options available all the time, and ability to enter equations under options--> customize current view --> sorting (while in or NOT in panes).

I would love to have the panes accross the top AND thumbnails AND details at the bottom, WITH the 'play' and 'files' options below the thumbs.

One of the views I would use most would be genre sort in panes (only genres in text accross the top - not other fields), then thumbs sorted as we are doing here (artist, then all albums), then details on the bottom.

I would use this almost exclusively. 

Then, to top it all off, just need the option for a third column on the right showing now playing.  Add the ability to move, choose and interchange the various elements and we're closing in on perfection. 
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Pink Waters on March 15, 2006, 01:10:32 pm
I think alex b, that your idea is related to viewing a specific genre albums, and not artist albums ?
if so, i always browse my library by selecting albums from a specific genre and then look at all the albums there..

don't know if this is close to you idea!
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Alex B on March 15, 2006, 05:30:15 pm
I looked at your 'Album Artist' post and liked what you had to offer.  Are you saving these as tags, or just updating the MC fields?  Pros and cons here?  I dont think I have any 'Album Artist' tags.  Maybe I should?  Will other apps / players support this?  Obviously need to learn more here...

The Album Artist tag is proprietary, but I have saved it to the files. Usually I save all library fields that don't change dynamically to the files if possible. Text tags are very small anyway.

Quote
Are there programs out there or a way that I can automatically have all of the multiple artist albums tagged with an album artist field that is the album name

Here is a way to split field contents to separate fields with MC: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=31663.msg217590#msg217590 (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=31663.msg217590#msg217590). You may be able to adopt the system.

Quote
and all of the single artist albums tagged with the album artist that is the artist?  Is this possible with MC?

You don't have to tag the Album Artist field if it is the same as the Artist field. MC fills the Album Artist (auto) field automatically. You should use the Album Artist field only for overriding the automatic choice. This is from the MC Help:
Code: [Select]
Album Artist (auto)

This is a built-in automatic field.  It auto-completes as follows:

- If something is manually typed in the Album Artist field, that content is included in the Album Artist (auto) field as well.
- If the Album Artist field is empty, then the Album Artist (auto) field gets completed as follows:
      - Single-artist name in the case of a single-artist album.
      - (Multiple Artists) in the case of a multiple-artist album*.

* In order for (Multiple Artists) to appear automatically, the album must be in its own exclusive directory (i.e., if there are files from more than one album in a directory, the program will not label it as Multiple Artist).

Here is the logic. A track is a mix if all the files with the same [Album] value in the same directory:

- have more than one [Artist] value among them
- have no other [Album] values used by any other file in the same directory
- are Audio and have a non-empty [Album] value

Quote
One of the views I would use most would be genre sort in panes (only genres in text accross the top - not other fields), then thumbs sorted as we are doing here (artist, then all albums), then details on the bottom.

Try a view scheme that has only these items in step 1:
Genre
Artist/Album

Quote
Then, to top it all off, just need the option for a third column on the right showing now playing.  Add the ability to move, choose and interchange the various elements and we're closing in on perfection.

How about on the left? (Action Window > Build Playlist > Edit Playing Now)
Also, the display is already movable as you can see in following screenshot, which demonstrates nicely the "Album Artist (auto)/Album" view scheme.

(http://www.adart.fi/mc/pix/whygos.jpg)
Click to enlarge. (http://www.adart.fi/mc/pix/whygo.jpg)

Though, in the screenshot I just placed and resized the windowed MC display on top of the MC tree. It is still floating.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Pink Waters on March 15, 2006, 07:43:13 pm
Album covers sizes and spaceing won't be revised j.river ?
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: mountainfair on March 15, 2006, 08:05:23 pm
Alex - thank you for all of your help and continued replies.

Your image comes close, but still has the floating window that is pretty unwieldy.  Its the best possibility with current limitations of the program.

Here is a photoshop'd image of what I would consider the ideal layout (with each element movable, scalable, interchangeable, closable, minimizable):

(http://www.dreamthefuture.org/forward/misc/jriver-media-center-ideal.jpg)

Larger version:

http://www.dreamthefuture.org/forward/misc/jriver-media-center-ideal-lg.jpg


--

I will work on wrapping my brain around the post and info on 'split field contents to separate fields'.

--

Hmm... album artist is proprietary.  Well, not sure about this one.  I guess that the problem is that whatever work I do on it is lost if I use a different program or a portable that doesnt support it.  Again, I guess Ill look at how much work it is to set it up and then decide if its worth it just for MC.


EDIT:

are you sure that they are proprietary?  I found several link in google that seem to indicate that they are part of the id3 standard, and used by wmp and iriver.

check my post in this thread:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=31127.msg223672#msg223672
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Pink Waters on March 16, 2006, 07:58:34 pm
Album covers sizes and spaceing won't be revised j.river ?
Bump.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Quisp on March 18, 2006, 08:37:33 am
Is there any way we can turn off the disarrayed stack of albums look yet? I know this was discussed. It would be great if I could not have my collection look like the floor of the local Salvation Army.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: hit_ny on March 18, 2006, 09:06:52 am
..But you do want to keep the drop shadows right :)
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Quisp on March 19, 2006, 09:21:27 am
Yes, absolutely! The drop shadows are nice!  I really, really, really like how this view is starting to shape up. Being able to see album art and the list of items below has been my top request for the last 5 years. My only issue is with the sloppy looking ninja star stuff.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: wombat66 on March 19, 2006, 09:40:28 am
... My only issue is with the sloppy looking ninja star stuff.

You are referring to the rating stars? Which skin are you using?
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Quisp on March 19, 2006, 10:03:37 am
No, sorry, I was referring to what stacks of albums look like.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: wombat66 on March 19, 2006, 10:35:04 am
Ah yes, I agree with you. They are messy looking.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: elpaolo on March 19, 2006, 01:54:38 pm
I like the new look.  My only complaint is that going into an artist to look at albums, then clicking "artist" to return to the previous view loses my place in the library (i.e. where i was scrolled to).  It always starts up top when I go back.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Quisp on March 19, 2006, 05:11:44 pm
My only complaint is that going into an artist to look at albums, then clicking "artist" to return to the previous view loses my place in the library (i.e. where i was scrolled to).  It always starts up top when I go back.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of that either. You need to use the back button which can only be placed in the toolbar areas. It would be good to either change the way artist works, or add a back button next to the pull-down list.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: datdude on March 20, 2006, 01:29:28 am
For eye candy sake, I still think a cube that shows 2 covers angled at each other and then spins when hovered over, would be way better than the spiraled look.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: marko on March 20, 2006, 01:44:37 am
another thing I bumped into yesterday while using the browser...

I closed the alphabet and felt that things looked better without it. I figured I'd try simply hitting a letter on the keyboard and have the browser jump there that way instead.

I expected MC to move the view so that thefirst instance of that letter was scrolled to the top of the window, but it does not, it scrolls till it finds that 1st instance, and stops there. I found that most off-putting and a little disorientating, as I searched the screen for the selected album.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: JONCAT on March 20, 2006, 08:10:44 am
1. "For eye candy sake, I still think a cube that shows 2 covers angled at each other and then spins when hovered over, would be way better than the spiraled look."

The spiral effect is neat but how useful? And, I agree it ends up coming off sloppy rather than cool.

2. I don't use the alphabet either but if I use the keyboard , with repeated presses of a button, MC will locate that letter and scroll through all the instances of that letter. Is this what's not working foryou?

3. I agree, this is really annoying:

"I like the new look.  My only complaint is that going into an artist to look at albums, then clicking "artist" to return to the previous view loses my place in the library (i.e. where i was scrolled to).  It always starts up top when I go back."

Dr. C
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: JaredH on March 20, 2006, 03:08:10 pm
Seems like there is much too much space between the album covers and the right hand side of the screen as compared to the space between the album covers and the splitter. An example can be seen here:

http://www.bgracetfaith.net/misc/library.jpg

The same thing can been seen in many of the other images posted here on this thread.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: sdgrizdan on March 20, 2006, 05:41:29 pm
For eye candy sake, I still think a cube that shows 2 covers angled at each other and then spins when hovered over, would be way better than the spiraled look.

So, I was thinking, what would be a good alternative to the messy spiral eye candy MC currently has? And then I saw datdude's suggestion above and I really like it!
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: JimH on March 20, 2006, 05:54:55 pm
Build 149 allows you to turn off the windmill look for thumbnails.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: LonWar on March 20, 2006, 06:38:41 pm
Build 149 allows you to turn off the windmill look for thumbnails.

Thanks Very much Jim..... While I do appreciate all of the work that went into this, it just wasn't my thing.
This should make everybody happy!
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Quisp on March 21, 2006, 06:31:10 am
Thanks Very much Jim..... While I do appreciate all of the work that went into this, it just wasn't my thing.
This should make everybody happy!

YES! THANK YOU!!!!! I also appreciate all the work that has gone into this.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Alex B on March 21, 2006, 08:03:35 am
Build 149 allows you to turn off the windmill look for thumbnails.

Thanks. However, it could be even better. I would like to see the windmill look with some of my view schemes, but I have other view schemes that are better without it.

Would it be possible to move the option inside "Customize Current View"?
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: geekbeats2 on March 21, 2006, 05:37:26 pm
instead of a stacked album approach why noto simply display an artist art like other programs do? ive been asking for this for quite a long time, other programs have actually implemented it, media center doesnt seem like it ever will.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Matt on March 21, 2006, 05:50:43 pm
instead of a stacked album approach why noto simply display an artist art like other programs do? ive been asking for this for quite a long time, other programs have actually implemented it, media center doesnt seem like it ever will.

That doesn't really solve the problem of what you show for a genre, or a set of events, or a range of bitrates, etc.  There are a lot of ways that files can be grouped.
Title: Re: New Stacked Album Art Display
Post by: Quisp on March 22, 2006, 05:48:01 am
That doesn't really solve the problem of what you show for a genre, or a set of events, or a range of bitrates, etc.  There are a lot of ways that files can be grouped.

That's why a simple icon representing more than one object type, say a rectangle, with the number of objects being represented inside works so well. Simple (visually), elegent, informational and not tied to any specific type or representation of an object.