INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => Media Center 15 (Development Ended) => Topic started by: JimH on August 06, 2010, 08:09:01 am
-
We'd have to pay $20,000 a year just to join the Blu-ray club. So we'd need to sell 1000 per year to make it worth the effort and expense. Then anything that allowed ripping a Blu-ray would probably get us thrown out again.
From Wikipedia:
The role of contributors as described by the Blu-ray Disc Association Website:
"Contributors are active participants of the format creation and other key BDA activities. They can be elected to become a member of the Board of Directors. A contributor can attend general meetings and seminars, and can participate in Technical Expert Groups (TEGs), regional Promotion Team activities, and most of the Compliance Committee (CC) activities. Membership requires execution of Contribution Agreement and must be approved by the Board of Directors. Annual fee: $ 20,000"
More about the Blu-ray Disc Association:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Association
-
I'm not sure if you're provided ISO-like code to start with for video decoding, menu navigation, etc. when you license. But I would estimate the creation of the necessary Bluray components, assuming ISO-like code, to be about six man-months of effort.
Then staying current on DRM, bit-streaming, etc. would require a person half-time.
These are rough guesses, but the cost of both is considerable.
-
i voted "Don't watch Blu-ray"...but if JRiver benefits if this was included in the product..i will provide my $
-
It's worse than you think. Not only do you have to stay current on that stuff, the requirement of PAP and all that other nonsense is considerably costly. Look at PDVD and TMT. Both are great players, but, they're hindered by the fact that their devs spend more time dealing with protection code than ACTUAL playback code. Add to that the fact that blu-ray discs are often mastered INCREDIBLY poorly, and it's a mess. What I mean by that last one is those "player updates" you see a lot...those often are workarounds for broken functionality on specific discs. If you want to spend all your time dealing with DRM and playback issues, then adding BD support natively is a good idea. If you'd rather let someone else do it, I'd recommend being able to work with the 10' UI plugins of the 3 major players. I don't think this will bring you anything but a major headache and won't benefit you or the users. This is just my opinion.
-
I'd pay.
-
Copy and pasted my comments from another thread regarding bitstreaming (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=58682.msg398909#msg398909), but I think they are relevant here.
Simply put from a 'user' perspective i would like to see the following:
- MC15 to support playback of BluRay discs with no issues and no additional software (unless this is somehow incorporated into a MC 'HD Video' version). This would need to include the playback of full HD audio either digitally bitstreamed or via analogue
- MC15 to support playback of MKV container for HD video including playback of any audio track in all their glory
I need for my wife to be able to buy a BluRay disc in the supermarket, bring it home, switch on the equipment (which is about as technical as she gets), put the disc in the HTPC and for MC to play the disc, including ALL menus and features.
In addition, she should be able to look up media in the MC library and play with no issue whatsoever.
I do not expect her to rip the BluRay to MKV, nor do I expect MC to be able to offer tools to do this (although as it does allow for CD ripping and tagging, this might be nice in the future). I want MC as my Media Centre, so I'm glad it has an apt name, but its' no good if it can't play my media - especially original media - with no hassle, FULL STOP.
As said, I don't think any additional software should be required in order for MC to be able to do this, however, I don't see that there couldn't be a separate MC version, say MC HD, that would incorporate any such software into its install, whether this be a white label version of something which JR strike a deal with.
-
i also voted.. dont watch
would be interesting to see how much the prize would go up when it would be just part of the program.
what is that?
that is media center from j river
can it play blu ray
sure.
most people including me use only a small percentage of mc's power
luckely everybody uses a different part
:)
gab
-
i voted "Don't watch Blu-ray"...but if JRiver benefits if this was included in the product..i will provide my $
Thanks. That's very kind of you.
-
Blue Ray will happen in our future. At that time it would be very beneficial to have MC do everything needed for it. We keep hoping , and planning for the day, that MC can handle all of our media needs.
I think due to its high entry cost for you that it's entirely fair to have it as an option so those of us that want to use it will be the ones paying for it.
Good luck.
Rod
-
Personally, I'd rather see MC development focus more on video streaming services (Netflix, Hulu, etc) and any other forward thinking video delivery formats. The red tape and expenses surrounding Blu-Ray almost seems like a joke. I do understand why people want MC to support it, but I see the format going away pretty quickly...
Are there still no easy options for licensing other decoders to use within MC, or allowing those who have purchased licenses for other BR player software to utilize those decoders within MC? That seems like the best solution to me, but then I don't know what's involved with that at this point either.
-JB
-
Whilst I think streaming videos is the future, my personal opinion is that we are years away form this happening in a quality that come close to standard definition TV broadcast, left alone HD, high quality broadcasts with full soundtrack. The bandwidth required for this just isn't available and I reckon we are looking at the later part of this decade before it become an affordable and reliable service the average person will enjoy.
In the mean time, the only high quality film material people have to go on is BluRay or Off Air Broadcasts.
-
Several points:
1) BluRay IS here to stay. We are nowhere near universal HD streaming capability. The studios will continue to make BluRay discs for some time to come. People in their middle ages now, or older are used to popping in a disc and playing.
2) I'd pay for the BluRay version on MC15, BUT...
3) I think it'd a borderline project in terms of return. I'd rather see a Mac version if we're gonna gamble. I'd pay for that too.
4) The idea of licensing/piggybacking with PDVD, TMT or WinDVD seems most palatable to me.
-
3) I think it'd a borderline project in terms of return. I'd rather see a Mac version if we're gonna gamble. I'd pay for that too.
Maybe a Mac version that plays Blu-Ray?
-
FWIW I voted yes but I'd be happy with the ability to define ISO's as video rather than data (to improve metadata handling) and the ability to cleanly launch TMT for playback and then cleanly return to MC afterwards. Cheaper and easier for you guys and on a par with other front end solutions.
Happy to clarify what I mean about metadata of that isn't self explanatory.
BTW I've only been trailing MC so far and while I couldn't currently replace my Windows MC/My Movies setup with it (mainly due to the fact that my family can work it with little to no help from me and DVB-S support:) ) I will be purchasing just so I can continue to experiment with features as they come onboard and I hope one day I'll be able to.
Love the music and media server stuff!! You guys are at the top of your game.
All the best
Wo0zy
-
I voted Yes (not surprise) but of all the options I'd suggest in order of doability:
1) Use a Plug-in from TMT or PDVD etc: It already works with MS MC so it should be relativity quick, easy, and as a plug in only those that would use it would pay
2) Blu-ray "lite": Code MC to support the recognition of Bly-ray discs, and the parsing of the Playlist File on them for correct playback of the M2TS content using direct show filters. Middle ground, should not be toooo hard to do (other are doing it now). This would only work for Non-protected Discs (eg users would need a AnyDVD HD type product). You would not have any menus etc but it would play the default main movie. Also no available filter for DTS-HD is limiting with this solution. This will still be a pain for all but an enthusiast to setup.
3) Dev a Full Blown Blu-ray SW Player: Don't......$ $ $ $ and restrictions on JR - $20K is just not going to get you there.
Thanks
Nathan
-
I will recommend a plug-in, to use with PDVD from Cyberlink, or Nvidia. The interface is already there.
If this is not too much to ask for, another plug in to use a database like DVD profiler, if no databse feature in PDVD.
Ekpen.
-
I voted no.
It's not that I don't want Blu-Ray support; it would be nice, but for the time, energy and money it would take to make it happen in MC, I think everything else might suffer for a while, and I'd rather give you $50 for true networkable TV usage and separation of the user interface from the server, as discussed in other recent threads.
I could pay $50 and purchase MakeMKV to rip my media and play the mkv's in Media Center, or purchase one of the stand alone players.
i'd rather see MC either link to one of the other players as discussed and/or improve mkv support/ability.
6 man-months and the extra staff could improve a lot on things in Media Center I would think, like maybe work on improving the user interface, allowing wives and parents to be able to use Media Center out of the box, without needing a resident geek (me) to make it all work.
Just my $.02 :)
-
i'd rather see MC either link to one of the other players as discussed and/or improve mkv support/ability.
This strikes me as the most sensible approach. I haven't got around to trying Blu-ray. My system came with PDVD (and I assume most BD drives must include something for viewing BD's). So I've assumed that when I get around to renting one, it's going to play automatically in PDVD. Since it's a rental, that's all I need—I don't see any advantages to playing it in MC. Given my system for maintaining video meta data (PVD/PvdImport), I'll still have that even though I don't own the disk. If I were to buy a BD, I think I'd want to rip it to MKV and include that in my library. Unless I misunderstood Matt's recent post (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=58682.msg398875#msg398875), that seems to be a good solution.
Now that I've thought about it, my suggestion would be to add/improve third party BD player and MKV support. That way, JRiver doesn't have to waste resources trying to compete with the single-purpose players. And if it's not possible for "MKV support" to include all the features that might be on a BD, there would still be the option of playing the disk. I have no idea what features might not be supportable, but I might want to do this: View the BD and all it's extra features when purchased. Then rip just the movie and preferred audio stream to MKV for subsequent viewing.
-
I had to vote no as well. I already use DVDFAB and can just rip my bluray titles using this and play directly in MC. I am more interested in seeing the team spend their time polishing the newer network capabilities, webremote, zones and theater view advancements. Others have already spoken as to why they voted no and my opinion is that I agree with all those comments as well. Too much work for what is probably not a big reward. Now I would take advantage and even pay a sum less than $50 to be able to work/improve the integration with one of the third party apps.
-
Not at $50, and not at the expense of other things which I'd like to see have higher priorities.
-
I voted yes before, I'll pay if something is offered.
But all I really want is Blu-Ray playback. How this is achieved does not matter much to me.
I purchased my PC with a Blu-Ray DVD. It came with an OEM version of Cyberlink PowerDVD. This is what I currently use for Blu-Ray playback. I would upgrade to a full version of PowerDVD, or purchase another software package, if that was the engine that MC used for playback.
Also, even if MC supports Blu-Ray playback without any other software, it should not rip and convert. I myself use DVDFab for this operation.
-
Could MC handle the complex BR playback codec as a plugin or would it have to be integrated as an internal component?
Is that 1k extra licenses a per-year thing or???
-
I voted no because I only use JRiver for audio (FLAC playback). I believe we are moving toward PC's becoming servers with thin clients in other rooms of the house. So I would like to see JRiver be a content streamer. Pushing content to devices such as Squeezebox Touch (audio) and Dune (Blueray and Audio). That ability would get you a lot of new users.
-
only if it supports iso and folder playback
-
I voted yes as well, but agree with others on the priority of this.
I'd rather see a TMT plugin and then the time spent on fixing current issues/bugs and improvements to Theater View and Library Server over native Blu-Ray support.
Richard
-
I'd probably be willing to pay, but with the caveat that it came with a discount on the main program, when licencing from a blank slate.
Something like $50 for plain MC or $75 for a new MC licence with Blu-Ray.
-Leezer-
-
I received PDVD with a blu-ray drive and it worked for a while but then suddenly stopped after a mandatory update. I spent weeks trying things from their tech support including free retail versions but I could not get it to work on my PC. They didn't have a clue. I suppose it might have worked with a clean Windows install but I was not willing to try that. I switched to TMT and it has worked without a hitch. I would like to see MC allow the use of an external player such as TMT. No sense re-inventing the wheel.
-
You know what... I voted "Not Sure, Maybe" but I've changed my mind. I have a BluRay player in my HTPC (and I have a burner and authoring software at work), but I've never actually played a BluRay disc in my machine at home. I just don't rent or buy discs very often. I would almost always prefer to use Amazon Unbox or iTunes to get them digitally (boo on spinning plastic discs). And, even if I do get a plastic disc, I'd almost always just rip it to MKV before use and be done with it.
However... Since I have the drive, and I'm committed to MC, and all the other software out there for playing BluRay is AT LEAST $50 (usually more)... You can count me as a yes. It would be nice to be able to use that hardware on the OUTSIDE chance that my mom or brother-in-law shows up at my house and wants to watch the BluRay movie they rented or brought. Plus, I'll eventually have kids here, and it'll be nice to be able to appease them with a quick run to the RedBox and not have to worry about ripping it and whatnot.
With all of that in mind, in the end, I'm probably going to end up buying a software BluRay player. And I'd certainly rather give my $50 to you guys, and I'd ESPECIALLY rather have it integrated into MC. So, yes. I'd pay up. So switch one of those "Not sure" votes up to a "Yes, in a heartbeat" votes (in your mind, unless you can actually edit the results).
-
I voted no - since there are a plethora of other options available...anyone serious about using MC in a true theater environment and wanting the ultimate in convenience would most likely be converting their BD discs already via MakeMKV or similar.
Conversely - anyone serious about buying BD and viewing them in the home - already has a decent hardware player - like me.
As long as there continue to be solid options out there to make an MKV out of any BD - I fail to see any good reason whatsoever to bake this into MC. Plus the upkeep and constant possible cost overhead (aka the $20,000 to join the club) sounds like one long price increase to the cost of our favorite media software. Let the guys like MakeMKV or DVDFab worry about BD encryption issues etc...
Finally - to up the cost of MC to 50 bucks or more could easily exceed that magic line for a lot of people.
Cheers!
VP
-
Finally - 50 bucks or more to buy MC in the future could easily exceed that magic line for a lot of people.
I interpreted this question as: $50 for MC, and an OPTIONAL additional $50 if you want the BluRay playback feature enabled. If this isn't the case, I would vote "No" enthusiastically. I have a few MC licenses that I deal with, and I'd only really be interested in the BluRay option on one or two of them.
-
I interpreted this question as: $50 for MC, and an OPTIONAL additional $50 if you want the BluRay playback feature enabled.
If that's the case - I need a much bigger NO poll option - like a bolded No or a No with 8 more "o" added to the end and an exclamation point...AKA:
Noooooooo!
Cheers,
VP
-
If that's the case - I need a much bigger NO poll option - like a bolded No or a No with 8 more "o" added to the end and an exclamation point...AKA:
Noooooooo!
I don't understand... Why would that be a bad thing? You could buy it if you wanted it, and if you didn't you wouldn't have to. I'm confused.
FYI: The cost for a new copy of MC is already $49.98. That part of my comment is nothing new.
-
I don't understand... Why would that be a bad thing? You could buy it if you wanted it, and if you didn't you wouldn't have to. I'm confused.
Sorry for the confusion. My bad. Now that I read it again...you are right. $50 as an option.
I guess my only concern - adding this - at what expense to the development and enhancements that are a much higher priority? Considering the media world is rapidly moving to an almost disc-less future...and MC is hands down the king of "file based" media players - ever...why spend the time, talent and resource to join this party now?
FYI: The cost for a new copy of MC is already $49.98. That part of my comment is nothing new.
That I wasn't aware of. I guess as an "auto-upgrader" - I don't spend anytime checking out the "rack rate" as new user.
-
I guess my only concern - adding this - at what expense to the development and enhancements that are a much higher priority? Considering the media world is rapidly moving to an almost disc-less future...and MC is hands down the king of "file based" media players - ever...why spend the time, talent and resource to join this party now?
I still think we're a mile (10 years) away from true HD streaming in the quality you can get from a BluRay. Until then, I would like to option of being able to view a BluRay as I would view a DVD. I don't think that closing MC theatre view down, switching to a mouse/keyboard, starting a different player, watching the moving then switching it all back again is a very friendly approach.
I personally would like a solution whereby I can watch a BluRay, rip it and watch the file from one interface, but more importantly, I would like me misses to be able to select and play something whether is be a disk or file. If she goes and buys a BluRay, she should be able to play it in a simple, easy to use fashion.
I'm not opposed to MC integrating with other software, but I think the setup should be seamless. If MC is able to play BluRay's out of the box (or second box) this should happen naturally, if it relies on other software, then maybe JR could strick a deal with that software maker to get an OEM version. If MC has an option to legally play BluRay, it is not going to be able to rip (shame), however, I don't think MC will ever be set up to to rip BluRay - this will always be the chore of the resident geek.
A lot of the users on these forums are going to be technically minded, probably capable of ripping BluRay to MKV and playing them from files, but we are not the masses and other, less technically minded souls that I fear will probably never read this, need to be accounted for.
I think the role of MC should be to make the playing of your media in whatever format it is in, as simple as possible. It maybe that a resident geek in needed to set the thing up (especially if a server is utilised), but the user simply wants switch on the system, pick up the remote and use the system. We still regularly view DVD's and BluRay's without ripping them first, and I think this will continue for may years yet to come.
I voted - Yes
-
But more importantly, I would like me misses to be able to select and play something whether is be a disk or file. If she goes and buys a BluRay, she should be able to play it in a simple, easy to use fashion.
I couldn't agree more. That's why we have the Oppo BDP-83 at the ready.
Unfortunately - there is no possible way - even with a massive overhaul to an already excellent MC interface that my wife could be bothered with dealing with MC and any kind of disc or file based playback. She does know how to open the tray on the BD player...drop in the disc and hit the big Play button. Done. :)
-
She does know how to open the tray on the BD player...drop in the disc and hit the big Play button. Done. :)
Mine doesn't know you to change to a different AV channel, although for the time being I have a Hermany remote that kinda does this for her (if she can remember which button to press!).
That's why I want MC to be my one point of contact. I want one interface that I can replicate in multiple rooms so that everything works in the same way. All-right, MC is still along way away from this in many areas (especially in the TV viewing/serving), but BluRay playback will be a step in the right direction.
-
Mine doesn't know you to change to a different AV channel, although for the time being I have a Hermany remote that kinda does this for her (if she can remember which button to press!).
I hear ya! I have been very patient with my sig-other..and tried my hardest to get her working with MC. We have overcome the barrier for music...but for movies...with the WDTV Live and now the Oppo in the rack - it's no contest. Not only does she get instant movie time - she runs these two like they were built for her. Can't argue with that design. So hardware wins this round. Especially the WDTV - the interface is about as good as it can get. My 6 year old has it down cold as well...
-
Ha! I too have wife acceptance issues, but mine are just the opposite. A hardware player would be absolutely out of the question (I actually have two Oppo 83's at my disposal, so actually getting one wouldn't be an issue).
My living room TV always stays on the HTPC HDMI input. The "real" remote control to the TV is in a box in the basement. My HTPC is operated via a Snapstream Firefly (programmed via Girder5) and a wireless mouse (and a Microsoft Arc Keyboard, but that gets stowed away most of the time). She knows how to use a Windows computer, and she can look stuff up on the web, and use MC and BeyondTV. More than one remote isn't an option. Separate hardware devices aren't an option for me if it is something she needs to use. Software is the only option.
But really... Training her to use a different media player other than MC would be a challenge. I've been using MC at home for quite a long time (longer than I've owned this house, in fact), so she's pretty competent with it, and the new Theater View only makes that better. However, if I did go with a 3rd Party BluRay player application, I'd have to start fresh training her. She's not incompetent by any means, but I'd absolutely get some resistance.
That's a big part of why I decided to change my tune towards yes.
-
Semi off-topic here, but anyway...
I still think we're a mile (10 years) away from true HD streaming in the quality you can get from a BluRay.
Are the HD on demand movies that I can stream via my cable box inferior to BluRay discs? (Serious question here, I've never actually viewed a BD.) By what stretch are they inferior?
From the other end, how much of the general population cares enough about the quality of the material they view to choose the physical disc over a convenient digital only medium. The success of MP3s over CDs makes me guess not a ton. Certainly there is the segment of people who care very much about the quality of their video delivery (and this segment is a prime target for MC), but I wonder how big and/or influential this segment is. It certainly doesn't consist of everybody with a big HDTV.
So, I guess my thought is that whether or not you're right about 10 years for the quality, I think primary form for video delivery will have moved from disc to digital delivery much sooner than 10 years.
-JB
-
I find it interesting how the chips are falling here given the vocal requests for BlueRay that I've seen posted over the last year or so. What's even more suprising, is that I thought I wanted it supported too....but when I think about it, I've never actually rented/owned/played a BlueRay disc.....now if it would rip to MKV, I'd buy it just for the facility. Otherwise, I'm not about to start collecting plastic, I stopped that a long time ago, so if all it will do is play, I would suggest your resources would be better spent elsewhere.
-
Semi off-topic here, but anyway...Are the HD on demand movies that I can stream via my cable box inferior to BluRay discs? (Serious question here, I've never actually viewed a BD.) By what stretch are they inferior?
It's not even close. BD is above all else right now. Let's say netflix will add 1080p streaming later this year, which is theoretically possible. You're still stuck with lower bitrates BY FAR than a BD and you won't get HD audio. Think about it another way...your average streaming video, even on cable on demand or whatever, is maybe 6 or 7 gigs per movie. Cram in some low quality AC3 and the rest is typically a 720p or maybe 1080i video stream. Now compare that with BD which is typically 25-50 gigs depending on the movie. (Avatar really went all out on that one). Anyway, BD obliterates all streaming that I've ever seen or heard about. 10 years is a good estimate given how slow the US is upgrading their internet speeds. Even with my fiber optic and cable connections, I still couldn't stream a BD quality video in realtime.
-
I haven't really stayed on top of it, (nor was I ever on top of it) but last I checked MKV's don't currently do chapters and menu's, but I think that the format does allow for it. I could certainly be mistaken about that and/or it may have changed.
if that is correct, maybe this is an opportunity for MC to stand out. Getting chapters and menu's and subtitles working well inside MC would be wonderful. There's only a few options for ripping to MKV's so there can't be too much variety in what would be presented to Media Center. Taking the known input, into a perhaps semi-custom or known working splitter to known/suggested filters and allowing the full experience of the Blu-Ray Disc from the HTPC, pre or easily configured lossless audio and video that just works would "sell-out on release date" I think.
Is there any legal downside to compiling a J River Media Center codec pack? There must be some combination of filters and codecs that will work with most of the common formats on most current systems that could be bundled up as a codec pack. However, with MC as the intended client. Custom tweaked filters with known input and output chains in mind, specifically designed to work in MC. I have no idea how hard this would be to implement, but seeing the amazing things happen over the last decade makes me think you can do it. It seems that it might actually be harder to make all of the options available and getting all that to connect and work well with all the different possible combinations than it would be to just "fix" a system that almost works and just concentrate in keeping that working and updated and improved.
I'm assuming you couldn't just implement them with the MC install to make sure everything installs perfectly, but that would be even better.
Doing that well, and maybe working out something with one or all of the ripping developers to suggest their product if they can present a file with some things the way you need them for this to all work well. Everyone wins.
Just thinking out loud :)
-
Just an FYI, MKV does chapter support just fine now with the latest Haali. Menus are still not supported, however, and that's a very big ball of yarn to untangle. Most BD menus are done in BD-J, so, it's not a simple thing of "ripping the menu" and "adding it to an MKV". At the present time of this writing, you won't find any open source, non-commercial player that supports BD menus. Yes, I know that support is being worked on by at least 2 groups. However, it's going to be a long, involved process.
Getting back to the original poll, I still voice my opinion of working with existing players and trying to integrate with them as much as possible. Maybe even providing auto-mounting of ISO's that then play using a third party plugin such as TMT or PDVD's MC plugin. It would be much lighter code and would make them do all the grunt work. But you could offer seamless integration with MC15 which would in fact rock.
-
If integrated Blu-ray were the only option for playing BD, I'd support it. But it's not. It seems I have the option of ripping them to MKV which MC can already play. Or I can use the software I already have to play the disc directly. Even with great confidence in the abilities of JRiver, I have to wonder if they can built a better player than the existing ones, and sustain that edge. Otherwise, the value of integration (not to mention the additional $50 cost) is questionable. I think many would be very unhappy if an integrated player that was perceived as inferior to alternatives was the only form of integration available. So it's difficult to imagine this being done and the easier alternative not still being necessary to implement.
But I'm not voting "no"—I'm voting "yes" to better integration with the alternatives. I'm not sure what that entails, but surely it would be a lot easier and have a greater pay-off than developing the integrated solution. I suppose it might include improving how MKV's are handled—so those containing BD rips can mimic as much as possible the features of the disc. For playing BD's, an external player can be called without otherwise disrupting the Theatre View experience. That means using the the players controls, but those should be 10-foot friendly, including commands that can be programmed to a remote.
I'm not sure—because I don't use DVD's either—but I suspect either approach requires a (better?) way for recording, maintaining and using external disks in the library. It should be possible to select an external BD item in the library and see all it's meta data. Playing it should result in a prompt to load it (if it's not found in the drive) before calling the external player. On return, Last Played should be updated—as if it had been played by MC.
...However, if I did go with a 3rd Party BluRay player application, I'd have to start fresh training her...
So if this sort of third party player support existed, and you programmed your Firefly so the keys she's used to do the equivalent things in the player, how much "training" would be required? She might not even see the player interface. I suppose that depends on how much she relies on the MC OSD versus the equivalent remote keys. For the more common things—volume, mute, pause, stop, etc., she's probably more familiar with the remote anyway.
-
If MC is audiophile player then I don't understand this question. Of course that it MUST have blu-ray support. I have many blu-ray concerts that I can't play via my favourite MC player and I have to use some other software for blu-ray playback. Don't ask any more, make it! Blu-ray is expanding more and more! Why don't you make special version of MC that will supports it and keep this old version that is not supporting it so everybody can choose. I doubt that you will be in minus, this is the best player ever!
-
If MC is audiophile player then I don't understand this question. Of course that it MUST have blu-ray support.
Of course MC should have Blu-ray support. No one questions that. The difficulties of creating it, however contrived, are very real and very costly though, as noted by Jim and Matt at the top of this thread. The baseline concern is that implementing it won't bring in enough revenue (directly or indirectly) to cover the costs of implementing it. From users' perspectives there is a concern that implementing Blu-ray would slow or halt progress in other areas of MC. Due to the relatively small size of JRiver and the red tape surrounding the Blu-ray format it just can't be a black and white issue, unfortunately.
-
Of course MC should have Blu-ray support. No one questions that. The difficulties of creating it, however contrived, are very real and very costly though, as noted by Jim and Matt at the top of this thread. The baseline concern is that implementing it won't bring in enough revenue (directly or indirectly) to cover the costs of implementing it. From users' perspectives there is a concern that implementing Blu-ray would slow or halt progress in other areas of MC. Due to the relatively small size of JRiver and the red tape surrounding the Blu-ray format it just can't be a black and white issue, unfortunately.
What I think is overlooked is the maintenance of it, even if they were to add full blu-ray support. It's not small. Ask ArcSoft and Cyberlink about that. :) It will definitely take time away from developing other features.
-
bunglemebaby you are contradicting to yourself. You first said that no one questions blu-ray support and then you talk about difficulties to achieve that. So it really is question if it will be supported or not (because of that difficulties)! My answer to that question is YES, supports it no matter what-higher price or whatever! Yes I know difficulties, it will be nice to have blu-ray support, it should have blu-ray support BUT bla bla bla.......Only fools and horses: ''who does not risk that does not benefit'' - or something like that ;D
-
That's "He who dares wins".
But other than total luck you may remember that Del Boy (like his brother) was a total plonker.
I'm sure the J River devs are brave but not plonkers. It has to come down to whether the investment is a good business choice and only they know the answer to that.
SamuriHL is (as usual) right on the money here IMHO.
Wo0zy
-
I would pay for bluray support.
Though I am completely happy with the amount of support that currently exists.
I backup my blurays then import the index.bdmv into my J River library. I then use J river play them with an external program, TMT.
This works great and I really like using TMT.
With that said, I suppose I would pay for a TMT plugin(I would not consider anything to do with powerdvd or windvd). The only difference it would make when compared to what I am doing now, is that I could use j river for the controls instead of TMT. This would be nice but it’s really not a big deal to me.
I have found that trying to play protected blurays is masochistic and AnyDVD is necessary just to play many discs. As an alternative to full bluray support maybe the ability to play ONLY unprotected discs is an option since AnyDVD is pretty much a requirement anyways. Is this possible with out joining the bluray club?
The best part of using J river is the ability to open files in your library with an external program, unlike other software that hijacks your computer. Thank you for your flexibility. To be a great company you can use apple as an inspiration for the ways in which you will never choose to be. DRM should not be encouraged and protected bluray support would be doing just that.
-
Yes, bravo! ''He who dares wins'', I couldn't remember exactly and it starts to tick me off so I just wanted to visit youtube for help ;D
-
Yes, bravo! ''He who dares wins'', I couldn't remember exactly and it starts to tick me off so I just wanted to visit youtube for help ;D
In the UK the "Dave" channel makes sure you NEVER forget :)
Tv repeats is another good reason for supporting as many disc playback options as possible :)
Wo0zy
-
That's "He who dares wins".
I think it's pretty clear that both of the two basic choices being discussed here are "daring" in their own way. In particular, the one I advocate entails no additional revenue and the need to change the minds of those who believe that nothing less than full Blu-ray support will do. All this bit of wisdom suggests is the importance of making a decision and then acting on it.
...DRM should not be encouraged and protected bluray support would be doing just that.
I hadn't thought of it in exactly those terms, but this is a very good point. Maybe I'm paranoid, but nothing I've heard suggests this club is worthy of our trust. Does membership tie JRiver's hands in any way that some of us may object to—like prohibiting any form of support for the handling of "unauthorized" BD rips? :o
-
I hadn't thought of it in exactly those terms, but this is a very good point. Maybe I'm paranoid, but nothing I've heard suggests this club is worthy of our trust. Does membership tie JRiver's hands in any way that some of us may object to—like prohibiting any form of support for the handling of "unauthorized" BD rips? :o
Yes. Being a licensed Blu-ray player means a *LOT* of draconian things. I can't believe the audiophile crowd would even suggest integrated, native BD playback for that simple reason. Let's take a look at some of the things a licensed player is forced to do:
-First and foremost, it needs to support AACS decryption in a way that prevents the player key from being lifted from memory. That means debuggers need to be trapped, memory needs to be wiped clean, and all kind of other nasty nonsense that could, and probably would, introduce instability in MC15.
-Next up you have BD+. This is another whole new ballgame and requires a BD+ machine implementation that is also secure from hacking. And as new titles make use of more and more BD+ functions (there are a lot), the player will most likely have to be tweaked to handle it. And since ArcSoft didn't even seem to get a heads up with the new Avatar BD+ protection was released, I suspect JRiver would also be forced to play catch up when the BD+ protection is changed. Playing catch up is never a good place to be in when you're a developer and customers are clamoring for a fix for their new Blu-ray.
-For you audiophiles in the house, we have bitstreaming and non-downsampled decoded LPCM. This is a really fun topic. For bitstreaming, a Protected Audio Path is required. JRiver would in fact be required to implement each and every vendor's interpretation of PAP. What I mean is, nVidia does PAP one way, ATI does it another way, Realtek does it another way, ASUS Xonar does it yet another way. You will be writing code to support each and every new card that comes out in order to support PAP for bitstreaming. That also applies to non-downsampled LPCM for those that couldn't care less about bitstreaming. No PAP....no non-downsampling. There is a strange use case exemption that seems to be out there, but, that use case isn't fully understood yet so discussion it here is premature at best.
-For videophiles, HDCP is also required to be supported by the player. IOW, more DRM code that doesn't achieve anything for the end user but a headache that the developers will have to focus on.
Why do I bring all this up? All of that coding equals an ENORMOUS amount of time and effort. That's time and effort that will NOT be spent improving other areas of MC15. We need to remember that developer resources for a company the size of JRiver are not infinite. If they're working on DRM requirements to not get their AACS LA provided license revoked, they're not working on other areas of the code. If they were to hire developers specifically for the purpose of doing all the DRM coding, the cost would have to go up because they still need to cover the AACS LA license fee, PLUS pay the developers working on the code. And let's not even get into the exponential cost of testing. The in house hardware requirements alone aren't cheap as you need to test on a wide variety of hardware to make sure the DRM plays nice. I'm not pointing all this out to be negative. I'm pointing it out to clearly define the reality behind such an endeavor. It's not cheap from a labor or monetary standpoint. And other areas of the code would likely suffer as a result. Just look at PowerDVD for a prime example of that. I just want everyone to have a clear picture of what would be needed to provide licensed, official BD support. BTW, did I mention the work necessary to create the video and audio codecs? Those aren't provided. As an AACS LA licensee, you get the spec. You're on your own as to how to implement it. That's 3 video codecs (already handled so no problem there) and 3 audio codecs. DTS-HD MA being the most obvious one that would need to be written from scratch. I think TrueHD could be handled by what's already out there depending on how the license is written. Otherwise they may be forced to write their own codec for it. Awesome....
-
Don't think you could make it any clearer Samuri.
3rd party player support/ integration is the way to go plus improvements to the video library system. I'd suggest speaking to Brian over at My Movies and maybe looking at his API for that instead of just (partially) reading the mymovies.xml.
How far either of these things go depends on whether j river is looking for mass market (maybe OEM) adoption or whether it plans to stay firmly routed in the enthusiast market.
Wo0zy
-
It's unfortunate that they make it so difficult. This is the reason that we had so many DVD player software packages but only 3 commercial Blu-ray software packages out now. Jumping into it, IMO, would mean concentrating on nothing but Blu-ray playback for quite a while. It's not a quick endeavor to undertake. I'm really not trying to discourage anyone. That's not my goal. I just want to make sure everyone knows what a HUGE development task it is. That's why I recommend letting the "other guys" take care of all the legwork around BD playback and simply try to seamlessly integrate their 10' UI plugins with MC15. It'd be a way that lets MC15 manage the library (ISO's, MKV's, whatever) and still have seamless playback without tying up the developers for months to work on nothing but satisfying arbitrary, and changing, AACS LA requirements. I haven't even mentioned Cinavia detection, but, according to the new license it seems to be mandatory for all new players, as well. The ridiculous requirements of the AACS LA go on and on. And they can change at any point. In order to keep your license, you must comply. That's why PowerDVD lost functionality. I can't believe the JRiver developers would really want to jump through those hoops unless Blu-ray support would be a *HUGE* draw and a significant portion of the customers would be willing to pay for it. Otherwise the pure economics don't really make sense. Again, it's up to them to decide what feature set to add, but, I want them to do so with full knowledge of what they're getting into. :)
-
Just an FYI, MKV does chapter support just fine now with the latest Haali. Menus are still not supported, however, and that's a very big ball of yarn to untangle. Most BD menus are done in BD-J, so, it's not a simple thing of "ripping the menu" and "adding it to an MKV". At the present time of this writing, you won't find any open source, non-commercial player that supports BD menus. Yes, I know that support is being worked on by at least 2 groups. However, it's going to be a long, involved process.
Chapters are also supported with the latest MPC Matroska splitter.
-
Welcome by the way wo0zy, liked your work over at AVS especially trying to get those G33's working at 24hz (now well in the past thank heavens)!
======================
Anyway - at the risk of being repetitive, I see there are 4 Options for JR to look at (I added a 4th), and in the order of preference (mine):
voted Yes (not surprise) but of all the options I'd suggest in order of doability:
1) Use a Plug-in from TMT or PDVD etc: It already works with MS MC so it should be relativity quick, easy, and as a plug in only those that would use it would pay
2) Blu-ray "lite": Code MC to support the recognition of Bly-ray discs, and the parsing of the Playlist File on them for correct playback of the M2TS content using direct show filters. Middle ground, should not be toooo hard to do (other are doing it now). This would only work for Non-protected Discs (eg users would need a AnyDVD HD type product). You would not have any menus etc but it would play the default main movie. Also no available filter for DTS-HD is limiting with this solution. This will still be a pain for all but an enthusiast to setup.
3) Dev a Full Blown Blu-ray SW Player: Don't......$ $ $ $ and restrictions on JR - $20K is just not going to get you there.
4) Do nothing and wait: The approach to date & I'm unsure if it has hurt or hindered MC. We do have psuedo 3rd party integration but it is not very good - http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=55171.0
Thanks
Nathan
-
Chapters are also supported with the latest MPC Matroska splitter.
Good to know. Thanks!
-
I'm convinced. I change my vote to an unqualified NO! And YES to whatever alternatives are necessary to ensure I'm never affected by this evil Blu-ray nonsense. I would go as far a branding this alternative capability as "Anti-Blu-ray" support. I'd be willing to pay more for that. ;D
-
I'm convinced. I change my vote to an unqualified NO! And YES to whatever alternatives are necessary to ensure I'm never affected by this evil Blu-ray nonsense. I would go as far a branding this alternative capability as "Anti-Blu-ray" support. I'd be willing to pay more for that. ;D
You and me both. It's why I'm waiting for SlyPlayer still. And yes, before anyone asks, it IS still being actively worked on. The fact that it's taken SlySoft this long to make a player like that should tell you just how difficult this process is. Even with access to all the specs, it's not a walk in the park.
-
...with full knowledge of what they're getting into. :)
WOW!!!
sounds like a pass to me :)
Chapters are also supported with the latest MPC Matroska splitter.
that is good news, I guess I'll be doing some searching and updating and tweaking in the next few days.
I wonder if there is any possibility that Matt and the boys can consider/implement my idea of putting together the "best" working codec package (minimum required - to keep it simple) , adjusted/tweaked for use inside MC (no current concern with compatibility outside of MC) that gets most files playing back at their highest potential (lossless if possible, scaling down as necessary) that average Joe can just remove all other codecs, install this, and MC just makes it all work?
It seems like everyone has to find all the parts on their own, use trial and error, and eventually settle for whatever they consider good enough for them. There doesn't seem to be any concrete path, but lots of ways that mostly work for everyone. Even when someone finds out a solution, everyone would have to notice it happening, or find it in a search, and most users likely don't spend much time here, so would not know.
It sure would be nice if J River could find a solid solution, package it up, keep it current and recommend it as a known working solution for providing the best high quality processing and playback of most media :)
If when there is an improved method to MKV chapters, or menu's or "better" playback codec or whatever, update the package and everyone gets the improvement; simple ;)
-
Right. That's what I was saying in the bitstreaming thread about making it more user friendly to configure the different pieces needed for whatever functionality. For example, to get bitstreaming/dxva/subtitles to work for MKV playback, suggest to the user that they install ffdshow (give them a link to where they can get it from right in the UI) and then when it's detected, offer to configure it for them. (Hey, I've found ffdshow, would you like to use this for xyz?) And the same with splitters and any other requirements for functionality. Making it easier for users to configure these things right in MC15's configuration page would make it more likely that people will use it, and allow for greater flexibility in the MC15 world. I think this would go a long way towards making some users very happy. Myself included. LOL! :)
-
I wonder if there is any possibility that Matt and the boys can consider/implement my idea of putting together the "best" working codec package (minimum required - to keep it simple) , adjusted/tweaked for use inside MC (no current concern with compatibility outside of MC) that gets most files playing back at their highest potential (lossless if possible, scaling down as necessary) that average Joe can just remove all other codecs, install this, and MC just makes it all work?
I think this is off-topic, but since you keep bringing it up... ;)
I'm not sure if you're thinking of BD ripped to MKV and limited variations of what may be found in the resulting files, but most of us expect our media player to be able to play any video file (within reason). That's why CCCP or some reputable codec pack is recommended. It seems those who compile these things put a lot of effort into finding a combinations of codecs that will work together properly in most circumstances. The result has to not just handle various content, but do so with the resources available. What you need to play a particular file may be different from what I need. So I'm not sure how using MC changes this in any way that isn't already taken care of by the MC configuration (e.g., it can handle audio in a different and better way—and it will do so if asked). So I don't see what it is that MC might do in this area—other than try to make the program easier to use and provide support in what is necessarily a complicated matter.
...so—to stay on topic—I'll conclude by saying adding Blu-ray support is almost as bad an idea as compiling a JRiver codec pack. ;D
-
Welcome by the way wo0zy, liked your work over at AVS especially trying to get those G33's working at 24hz (now well in the past thank heavens)!
======================
Yes, let me echo this! I was so used to seeing your name in AVS, that it took me a while to figure that you're new... here.
Joe
-
I think this is off-topic, but since you keep bringing it up... ;)
...so—to stay on topic—I'll conclude by saying adding Blu-ray support is almost as bad an idea as compiling a JRiver codec pack. ;D
agreed, sorry. I created a new thread to discuss this here...
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=59100.0
-
I voted yes. But unless JRiver can compete with Windows Media Center which can utilize blu-ray plugins like Cyberlink or TMT3 and can handle OCUR TV, you will be disadvantaged. Without these options to offer customers, you will have to rely mostly on current JRiver customers to upgrade, which is not going to be very profitable.
The reason why I would upgrade for $50 in a heartbeat, is that I would use 5.1 room correction with Audiolense plugin, or the like, for HT which isn't happening so much in Windows Media Center.
-
I voted yes. But unless JRiver can compete with Windows Media Center which can utilize blu-ray plugins like Cyberlink or TMT3 and can handle OCUR TV, you will be disadvantaged. Without these options to offer customers, you will have to rely mostly on current JRiver customers to upgrade, which is not going to be very profitable.
I looked at Windows Media Center. It's rubbish , so I recently purchased JRiver. That makes me a new customer. So I don't see Blu-ray a s the definitive offering for JRiver to compete. I don't use Blu-ray at all - so have no need for it. If I did I would probably just rip to mkv or use a dedicated player for the purpose - like I do now on the rare ocassion I watch an actual physical DVD.
I definently don't want to have to pay extra for a feature I will rarely use.
-
Yes, let me echo this! I was so used to seeing your name in AVS, that it took me a while to figure that you're new... here.
Joe
Thanks for the welcome guys. It's appreciated.
I'm on holiday this week but hope to be more active here when I get back.
I'm new to the product as well as the forum but from what I've seen so far this is currently one of the most exciting products in the HTPC arena!
Speak soon.
Wo0zy
-
Also take into consideration that this forum is mostly visited by the more technical users, and the poll result would probably be worst in the BluRay fan department, if every user would vote.
-
Also take into consideration that this forum is mostly visited by the more technical users, and the poll result would probably be worst in the BluRay fan department, if every user would vote.
Worse in what way - there would be more people voting for BluRay support??
-
I said No because I don't see any advantage of playing BRDs off media center as opposed to a dedicated BRD player. I don't play any physical media from MC. Anything I use MC for has already been ripped.
I also see BRD as transitional as streaming takes off. The instant playback from a massive library on demand is a pretty compelling feature you don't get with BRD.
-
Worse in what way - there would be more people voting for BluRay support??
No. The other way around. Because this forums is filled with people that embrace this and other applications possibilities, hardware and other technical stuff. In my opinion we're much more likely to be using BluRay than the average user that uses MC for Music or DivX only. I think that most users that do look at BluRay, already got a PS3.
-
I don't know... I think the "geek audience" is actually quite split on "next gen" optical formats. Some of us appreciate the higher bitrate and extra features of BluRay, whereas others (like me) have basically abandoned the entire idea of spinning plastic discs and have moved to a fully, or near-fully, file-based and downloadable content usage system.
Take me, for example: In a perfect world, I'd absolutely prefer the higher bitrate of BluRay content when watching a movie or something on my system. However, I do NOT appreciate that higher bitrate enough to counteract all of the negatives of BluRay. The biggest of these is frankly the removable nature of the discs. I mean, seriously... In 2010 you expect me to have a wall of discs in my living room where I need to stand up and walk over to the machine? Isn't that why we have 2TB hard drives for sale on Newegg for $100? But beyond that, there is also the inconsistent UI, obnoxious DRM, and the dearth of available software players. Also, to obtain a BluRay disc I need to get in my car and drive somewhere, or order online it and wait a week for it to arrive (plus to use Netflix I need to have a monthly subscription). To me, the other features of BluRay are completely irrelevant. I've almost never watched any of the "additional content" on a DVD. To me, all of that stuff is just as irrelevant as the importance of having the physical CD booklet for a music purchase or the "feel" of a hardcover book in my hand. Nice in abstract, but doesn't even come close to outweighing the convenience, consistency, and immediacy of electronic downloadable purchases.
If I could buy movies online and download them in 1080p AVC at high bitrates wrapped in a MP4 or MKV container, I'd be all over it. But, forced to choose, I'll take a 720p MP4 at watchable bitrates over better quality with all those negatives. But not everyone in the "geek community" agrees. There are certainly lots of people who feel that the quality and features of the BluRay discs trumps the convenience and consistency negatives. I can appreciate those arguments as well, I just don't usually agree (with a few exceptions, there are times when I'd prefer the higher quality with a particularly extraordinary film that I might want to watch and re-watch and keep for posterity, but these are very few and far between).
I feel like the non-geek public, if you limit your survey to people who are interested in getting HD content at all (which is the target market, obviously), is much more likely to support and use BluRay than the geek community on average. The iTunes store has some HD content, and so does Amazon, but for everyday consumption, these services certainly have a much lower mindshare than Netflix and BestBuy for the "average Joe". However, this audience would absolutely require a built-in "just pay the $50 and have It Just Work" system in a software player, not a hodgepodge of external players and plugins and:
It seems like everyone has to find all the parts on their own, use trial and error, and eventually settle for whatever they consider good enough for them. There doesn't seem to be any concrete path, but lots of ways that mostly work for everyone.
That would clearly be unacceptable for the "average user".
-
I do like glynor's comments, especially given that I agree with his points, but from the opposing perspective. I like physical media and have done since starting to collect vinyl, which I continue to do so and, for what its worth, is making huge inroads back in to the audiophile arena - but one area where even MC couldn't be used. In fact, I probably enjoy listening to vinyal more that digital music, but I do listen to MORE digital music.
With my digital media I still like collecting the physical product. There's something about the opening of a box and putting a disc into a machine, reading the paraphernalia that comes with well packaged products, and viewing some alternative materiel - granted most is ****, but some material is the best viewing I have ever seen. Yet, my CD collection now remains untouched, ripped and stored in high bitrate formats (which don't take up that much room given today TB RAID arrays), with my music library being expanded upon from various 'other' sources.
However, on the video front, I seemed to have skipped the DVD world completely, but I have fully embraced BluRay. Whilst I will watch I good quality MKV or even AVI rip, they simply do not even come close to the physical BluRay disk, and given the choice of what to watch if I have both options available to me, I would resort to the actual disc every time. Its a shame I can't rip the entire disc as I would do with a DVD, but even if I could at 25-50GB a time, even my relatively large array will soon be filled.
Yet any digital source I have, I would like to be able to access using a consistent interface across multiple devices, in multiple rooms. This means looking to HTPC systems all running MC hooked up to a back end server. I would like to be able to play "All Media in One Interface" (as ripped from the JRiver Home page), which would not only include digital files, but also multiple TV streams (still away off for MC) and physical digital media, such as CD, DVD and the dreaded BluRay.
As a more techy user, I wouldn't mind cobbling bits of software together to get this working, but I too think that this would be unacceptable for the average user.
Certainly, if such an area as BluRay playback is decided to be overlooked by JRiver, then they might want to think about re-marketing (although on another note, this might be worth while doing in any case as the website is a little tired at best, and completely out of date by 5 years or so (maybe even longer) at worst- just another one of those"to-do" to add to the list).
But essentially, it boils down to choice - choice for JRiver which direction they want to go, and potentially a choice for us if we want to adopt a particular feature. Each to their own, but I believe choice is a good thing.
-
I think the Glynor and Sinster posts are interesting and to me it shows, that like all features in MC, some will use it...and some will not. The reasons behind why you would or would not use a feature is an individial choice. Look at all the audiophile stuff Matt has been working, while I'd never have voted for this "stuff" I know others are very keen and even though such development costs time/money and takes these resorces away from projects I'd prefer, I'm glad MC rounds these features out. I'd just like MC to give us a Blu-choice.
-
I think the Glynor and Sinster posts are interesting and to me it shows, that like all features in MC, some will use it...and some will not. The reasons behind why you would or would not use a feature is an individial choice. Look at all the audiophile stuff Matt has been working, while I'd never have voted for this "stuff" I know others are very keen and even though such development costs time/money and takes these resorces away from projects I'd prefer, I'm glad MC rounds these features out. I'd just like MC to give us a Blu-choice.
I agree 100%; the lesson is clearly that there's probably a full spectrum of preferences among power/geek users. Personally, I don't care about owning the optical media any more. I do care about playing the files at the best possible quality (within reason when it comes to file size). I'm more interested in being able to play back from ISO, folders or simple m2ts files than the optical medium itself. Most likely I'll rip to mkv and be done with it. I did like to have the disc boxes on display, but after about 300 of them it took up more space than it was worth. Now I'm happy to let the 23 TB unRaid server take care of storage, while the disc cases are hidden form sight.
-
I think the Glynor and Sinster posts are interesting and to me it shows, that like all features in MC, some will use it...and some will not. The reasons behind why you would or would not use a feature is an individial choice. Look at all the audiophile stuff Matt has been working, while I'd never have voted for this "stuff" I know others are very keen and even though such development costs time/money and takes these resorces away from projects I'd prefer, I'm glad MC rounds these features out. I'd just like MC to give us a Blu-choice.
Exactly. And to be clear... I would pay the $50.
I won't use BluRay very often (because of the reasons explained above). For those occasional "spectacular" movies where I really want to own it in the best possible quality, and I splurge and buy the disc on Amazon? I'd just rip it to MKV and throw it on my RAID and import it into MC normally. So why would I want the $50 plugin for MC?
Exactly because I am the person who won't use BluRay very often. If you are a BluRay aficionado, then the work required to set up the hodgepodge approach of external players and filters and learn how to use this from within MC (or separately) is relatively minor compared to the amount of use that you will get out of it over the lifetime of the product. However, for me, the return on the investment of my time wouldn't even approach the "cost" (in time and effort to get it working properly). That's why I've had my BluRay drive in the HTPC for almost a year and have never even bothered to set up any software that can use it (other than for ripping and DVD playback)!
If I could pay $50 and have it guaranteed to "Just Work" with MC (which I use for basically everything else anyway), and just have it built in, then it would be worth the small price easily. That way, should a friend or relative ever show up with a disc they want to play, or should we ever want to watch a particular movie on a rainy and unplanned Sunday afternoon (and not mind running out to the local rental place), I can rest easy that it will work with minimal fuss. If JRiver can build a profitable business selling the BluRay add-on for $50, then it would not negatively impact the development of MC, it would only provide an additional revenue stream. Even if they "break even" (including the cost of the licensing and the development time required), it could add additional customers and drive more revenue over time, which only gives Jim more to invest in the development of the overall product.
-
Exactly because I am the person who won't use BluRay very often...
I agree with this line of thinking completely. And things "just working" is a very important part of the "any media, any where, any time" promise. But joining the Blu-ray club doesn't seem to be a rational investment (in money or development time) for JRiver. I'd rather see the investment go into the alternatives. So playing a BD just works because one or more third party players are seamlessly integrated with the program. So playing a BD rip just works because the program ensures the necessary codecs are installed and used properly. So maintaining meta data for Blu-ray media (disc or rip) just works because the program will do so for any kind of media. I'm happy to pay more, but I expect it to be invested where it gives me the most value.
-
I split some discussion here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=59254.0
-
Looks like the thread as run its course....
So JimH, what the decision?
-
So JimH, what the decision?
"Never make decisions based on polls." ;D
-
I'm not after a poll based decision! I'm interested in the position of JR. Jim started the thread and now its time.....
-
I was kidding! Although I don't recall him saying anything about making a decision...
-
Nor do I ... but it wold be nice to know what direction JR was leaning towards!
-
Nor do I ... but it wold be nice to know what direction JR was leaning towards!
Before or after he was shot? Oh boy, I'm sooo old!
-
You sure are! But good point—we'll probably have to wait until next season to find out. ;)
-
I personally think a HUGE leap forward for the video playback experience would be for JRiver to be able to use the EVR Custom Presenter Renderer, which will allow subtitles with DXVA. Either that, or to develop a internal subtitle renderer like MPC-HC has. Right now, the ONLY way to get accelerated h264 decoding, subtitles and bitstreaming of HD audio would be to use CoreAVC with CUDA for video, ffdshow for audio and an nVidia GTX460 video card. nVidia is soon releasing lower-power, non-gaming cards that can do the same, but if we got the EVR-CP, ATi cards, and integrated i3/i5 with h55/h57 combo solutions would work with MC too.